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[Recidiva]

Seallyn wrote...


First off, when does this happen, and how did I miss it?

Second, Yay!!!  I 110% agree!  I totally believe in true love.  I've seen it.

Third, I  hoped Alistair would fight and when he didn't, I was so disappointed.  Your character gets the chace to say, "So we just had sex...and that's it?"  Or something to that extent, and that's what I felt like.  You sleep with me, saying that you've never done this before, and that I was the first one and you want me to be the last one, blah, blah, blah, but when the time comes to prove your love for me you totally bail?  What the crap, man, what...the...crap?

If you buy the sword from Kaitlin at Redcliffe after getting the key from Bevin, you can go back to her and give her 500 silver for it.

If you do that, she moves to Denerim, opens a foundry, and she and Bann Teagen meet and marry in the epilogue.

Actually I always give her the money no matter what character I'm playing because that's just something I wanna see.  I like Bann Teagan.

I just felt like Alistair was a racist and a classist stupid head and I was in shock and hardly believing that this cool game would do this to me.  I remember saying to my daughter on the phone..."I think...I think the game just broke up with me..."

[Recidiva]

Sialater wrote...

Well, the thing about the dumping (and I had to think long and hard about this for my elf mage to try again), is that uh-hardened Alistair has no evidence that it's even POSSIBLE to fight for love. Fight for freedom, fight for safety, fight for food, but love, like Wynne said, is both selfish and selfless. Unhardened Alistair has no experience with this. He can't comprehend it. Duty is more real. Love feels selfish, but it's not, therefore, unhardened Alistair chooses duty over love because he doesn't GET the selfless part. Hardened Alistair gets the selfish part and then figures out the selfless part.

I'm pretty sure your Chancellor PC could end up Queen after slaying the Archdemon. Who's gonna dare say "no"? LOL

I entirely expected to die.  I'm thinking the game's gonna give me a chance to say "Dude, we probably only have about...10 minutes to live, you seriously want to open this can of worms NOW?"

That's not true.  Love provides its own vehicle.  Either Alistair's too weak to navigate or it's not love.  Either way, he has no right trying to drive love without a license. 

It's like hearing a parent say "Oh yeah.  Well, now it'd be hard to be your mom, so I guess you're on your own."  It's not about selfish, it's about this truth that's burning very bright and you don't see anything else.  

Love doesn't really recognize those sort of distinctions and only serves itself.  If it doesn't do that...it's not love.   Either that or the person given the gift of love is unworthy of it and will drop it as soon as it gets too heavy.  And that's what I saw.  Too much work. 

Not real to me.  Maybe real to other people, but all that makes me decide is that it wasn't love or Alistair's entirely too weak to handle it, both of which permanently change my perception of the idea of the couple ever having really been a couple to begin with.

This of course makes me an incredibly lucky person in that I'm accustomed to being stood by, fought for, and fought with.  And also having my opinion consulted and having it matter.

[Seallyn]

Sialater wrote...

Well, the thing about the dumping (and I had to think long and hard about this for my elf mage to try again), is that uh-hardened Alistair has no evidence that it's even POSSIBLE to fight for love. Fight for freedom, fight for safety, fight for food, but love, like Wynne said, is both selfish and selfless. Unhardened Alistair has no experience with this. He can't comprehend it. Duty is more real. Love feels selfish, but it's not, therefore, unhardened Alistair chooses duty over love because he doesn't GET the selfless part. Hardened Alistair gets the selfish part and then figures out the selfless part.

I'm pretty sure your Chancellor PC could end up Queen after slaying the Archdemon. Who's gonna dare say "no"? LOL

I'm actually doing the human noble character currently and since I have no quams with the demon baby thing, I will have Alistair take the deal (I know, I know it's morally wrong, but in this instance I'm selfish and chose the life of my love over everything else, including Ferelden.  Meh, Ferelden is probably due for some total and utter distruction anyway.)

And yes, I think you're right about Alistair.  That's the only conclusion that I could come up with.  He just doesn't understand love and doesn't know what to do with it.  For me it's kinda a lame excuse, but I do see it as a possibility. 

[Sialater]

I'm not saying it's correct, we're dealing with love written by a committee, here, namely the Bioware writing staff.  In the world of the game, however, that's what Alistair sees.  I can forgive it in the context of his world.

My husband pulled that crap, however, and I'd walk.  But then, we're not in the lovelorn world of Ferelden, where even parental love is punished.

This of course makes me an incredibly lucky person in that I'm accustomed to being stood by, fought for, and fought with.  And also having my opinion consulted and having it matter.

Completely agree.

[Seallyn]

Recidiva wrote...

If you buy the sword from Kaitlin at Redcliffe after getting the key from Bevin, you can go back to her and give her 500 silver for it.

If you do that, she moves to Denerim, opens a foundry, and she and Bann Teagen meet and marry in the epilogue.

Actually I always give her the money no matter what character I'm playing because that's just something I wanna see.  I like Bann Teagan.

I just felt like Alistair was a racist and a classist stupid head and I was in shock and hardly believing that this cool game would do this to me.  I remember saying to my daughter on the phone..."I think...I think the game just broke up with me..."

I was unaware of the whole Bann Teagan thing.  I have given Kaitlin the money, but I don't think I played that character through.  I'll start a character, but if I don't click with her then I start over.

Ha, and your line, "I think the game just broke up with me," hilarious.

Modifié par Seallyn, 21 décembre 2009 - 09:00 .

[Recidiva]

Sialater wrote...

I'm not saying it's correct, we're dealing with love written by a committee, here, namely the Bioware writing staff.  In the world of the game, however, that's what Alistair sees.  I can forgive it in the context of his world.

My husband pulled that crap, however, and I'd walk.  But then, we're not in the lovelorn world of Ferelden, where even parental love is punished.

Completely agree.

Yeah, I can understand it.  I just don't think I should have to be subject to so much mediocrity when I'm so awesome and stuff.

I'm so humble.

[Sialater]

Recidiva wrote...

Sialater wrote...

I'm not saying it's correct, we're dealing with love written by a committee, here, namely the Bioware writing staff.  In the world of the game, however, that's what Alistair sees.  I can forgive it in the context of his world.

My husband pulled that crap, however, and I'd walk.  But then, we're not in the lovelorn world of Ferelden, where even parental love is punished.

Completely agree.

Yeah, I can understand it.  I just don't think I should have to be subject to so much mediocrity when I'm so awesome and stuff.

I'm so humble.

He's only as good as he's written.  And he's written flawed.  On purpose. 

[Seallyn]

Recidiva wrote...



Yeah, I can understand it.  I just don't think I should have to be subject to so much mediocrity when I'm so awesome and stuff.

I'm so humble.

Ha.  Well you are pretty awesome, I think everybody on this thread is pretty awesome, and we all deserve better.

[Recidiva]

Sialater wrote...

He's only as good as he's written.  And he's written flawed.  On purpose. 

That's possible.  It's just not really my conclusion.  I think he was written compromised on purpose.  Different thing.

I can understand it since the whole scope of the game is crazy complicated.  I know I can only see it from my side.  But I probably would have gotten fired as a writer arguing my ass off until the day they sent me home with my stuff in a box.

[Recidiva]

Seallyn wrote...

Ha.  Well you are pretty awesome, I think everybody on this thread is pretty awesome, and we all deserve better.

We did!  We found each other! 

[Sialater]

Well, I'm not saying I couldn't write a better flawed romantic character... armchair quarterbacking writers is only fun when you're not one.

[Seallyn]

[quote]Recidiva wrote...


That's possible.  It's just not really my conclusion.  I think he was written compromised on purpose.  Different thing.

I can understand it since the whole scope of the game is crazy complicated.  I know I can only see it from my side.  But I probably would have gotten fired as a writer arguing my ass off until the day they sent me home with my stuff in a box.

[/quote]

I'm hoping either through other novels, or better yet, an expansion, we actually get to see some of these complications.  That and it would give the story even more depth.  The game does have a fairly rich history, now the characters need one.

[/quote] Recidiva wrote...

We did!  We found each other! 
[/quote]

Yay!!  I must admit, I've never actually written on a forum till now, but this game, and more specifically this forum just made the idea irresistable.

Modifié par Seallyn, 21 décembre 2009 - 09:25 .

[ozsras]

I took that Wynne conversation to mean "remember this isn't about your love story it's about stopping the blight", that she was reminding you of your duty. Which, yeah, that could ****** off a number of folks but I dunno, it didn't bother me. I was glad she said something. Hell, I was glad she actually noticed me, most of the NPC's are all "I HAD A HORRIBLE THING HAPPEN TO ME - let's talk about it." and probably wouldn't noticed if I dropped dead until they had to fight a Boss.

But I was playing a more seasoned/aged character - which is hilarious when I think about Daddy Cousland calling me Pup lol- so I listened to her, nodded my head and said basically 'yea I'm not stupid grandma' and that was it. She didn't really bother me. And plus she does change her mind.

I think Wynne knows love - just in a different context. I mean she wants to look up that apprentice she had but not her son. I think she just loves what she does, being a mage and all, she loves teaching and she loves the Circle. Nothing wrong with that, I don't think anyway. I actually found it refreshing.

[Seallyn]

ozsras wrote...

I took that Wynne conversation to mean "remember this isn't about your love story it's about stopping the blight", that she was reminding you of your duty. Which, yeah, that could ****** off a number of folks but I dunno, it didn't bother me. I was glad she said something. Hell, I was glad she actually noticed me, most of the NPC's are all "I HAD A HORRIBLE THING HAPPEN TO ME - let's talk about it." and probably wouldn't noticed if I dropped dead until they had to fight a Boss.

But I was playing a more seasoned/aged character - which is hilarious when I think about Daddy Cousland calling me Pup lol- so I listened to her, nodded my head and said basically 'yea I'm not stupid grandma' and that was it. She didn't really bother me. And plus she does change her mind.

I think Wynne knows love - just in a different context. I mean she wants to look up that apprentice she had but not her son. I think she just loves what she does, being a mage and all, she loves teaching and she loves the Circle. Nothing wrong with that, I don't think anyway. I actually found it refreshing.

She does love to teach, and for her that could be her true love, I guess, nothing wrong with that.  And you're right she does change her mind.  I just really did not expect it, but that makes a good game, right, having the unexpected happen.

[Recidiva]

Sialater wrote...

Well, I'm not saying I couldn't write a better flawed romantic character... armchair quarterbacking writers is only fun when you're not one.

Well, there I'm not sure.  The worst thing a writer can get is no feedback at all and nobody giving a damn. 

Constructive criticism in my writing is always welcome.  Because it'd make me a better writer.  Doesn't mean I love having my flaws pointed out, but that's why what I write tomorrow is usually better than what I wrote yesterday.  If I didn't listen to feeback, I'd be the same forever.  Boring.

[Recidiva]

Seallyn wrote...

Yay!!  I must admit, I've never actually written on a forum till now, but this game, and more specifically this forum just made the idea irresistable.

Heh.  I hang out on a site where I do a lot of writing and writing criticism....

But...uh...they're not all gamers, so I struck out to annoy new people.

[Recidiva]

ozsras wrote...

I took that Wynne conversation to mean "remember this isn't about your love story it's about stopping the blight", that she was reminding you of your duty. Which, yeah, that could ****** off a number of folks but I dunno, it didn't bother me. I was glad she said something. Hell, I was glad she actually noticed me, most of the NPC's are all "I HAD A HORRIBLE THING HAPPEN TO ME - let's talk about it." and probably wouldn't noticed if I dropped dead until they had to fight a Boss.

But I was playing a more seasoned/aged character - which is hilarious when I think about Daddy Cousland calling me Pup lol- so I listened to her, nodded my head and said basically 'yea I'm not stupid grandma' and that was it. She didn't really bother me. And plus she does change her mind.

I think Wynne knows love - just in a different context. I mean she wants to look up that apprentice she had but not her son. I think she just loves what she does, being a mage and all, she loves teaching and she loves the Circle. Nothing wrong with that, I don't think anyway. I actually found it refreshing.

Well yeah.  But I entirely intended to take all consequences upon myself.   Again, I had sympathy for her advice, but I already knew that living, playing, whatever...requires a motivation.  In this case, my character chose love for her companions as her motivation.  The Blight is really entirely uninteresting otherwise.

She never had any choice about the circle.  She's absolute certainty about things because she's never really had to choose.  She's chosen to make the most of the choices made for her.  Which is admirable, but useless when facing choices that aren't made for you.

But that's advice for reality.  She's foreshadowing that you're entirely screwed no matter what you do, and I picked up that way before I met Wynne.

[Seallyn]

Recidiva wrote...


Heh.  I hang out on a site where I do a lot of writing and writing criticism....

But...uh...they're not all gamers, so I struck out to annoy new people.

What site is this?

[Sialater]

Recidiva wrote...

Sialater wrote...

Well, I'm not saying I couldn't write a better flawed romantic character... armchair quarterbacking writers is only fun when you're not one.

Well, there I'm not sure.  The worst thing a writer can get is no feedback at all and nobody giving a damn. 

Constructive criticism in my writing is always welcome.  Because it'd make me a better writer.  Doesn't mean I love having my flaws pointed out, but that's why what I write tomorrow is usually better than what I wrote yesterday.  If I didn't listen to feeback, I'd be the same forever.  Boring.

I'd agree with the no-feedback part, I"m talking about the "Lulz, you suxxors, you write garbage," I've seen a lot of in the internet.

[Recidiva]

Seallyn wrote...

What site is this?

Literotica.

[Sialater]

Recidiva wrote...

Seallyn wrote...

Yay!!  I must admit, I've never actually written on a forum till now, but this game, and more specifically this forum just made the idea irresistable.

Heh.  I hang out on a site where I do a lot of writing and writing criticism....

But...uh...they're not all gamers, so I struck out to annoy new people.

Yeah, I know 0 girl gamers, so I came here.

[Recidiva]

Sialater wrote...

I'd agree with the no-feedback part, I"m talking about the "Lulz, you suxxors, you write garbage," I've seen a lot of in the internet.

Oh yeah, but that stuff's flat out funny and usually spelled badly, which is a bonus. 

I'm afraid if you can't take that with some humor, you're doooooomed!

And the only way to get to the good stuff is to wade through that.

[Recidiva]

Sialater wrote...

Yeah, I know 0 girl gamers, so I came here.

There's a lot of gamers on Lit, but not all of them had obsessed over the game and my "Gamers" thread just resulted in me posting Youtube clips, and inspiring people to go buy the game.  Nobody had finished and I wanted to avoid spoiling the damned thing entirely.

[Seallyn]

Recidiva wrote...

Literotica.

Hey, that's really cool.  I have some stories in my head that I've wanted to write, but wasn't entirely sure they would be appropriate for this site.  I might have to give this site a try.

[Recidiva]

Seallyn wrote...

Hey, that's really cool.  I have some stories in my head that I've wanted to write, but wasn't entirely sure they would be appropriate for this site.  I might have to give this site a try.

Yeah.  It's unmoderated, so be prepared to use the ignore button liberally. 

I'm Recidiva there too, so if you want to keep in touch there, feel free   My husband posts there as well.

I got started out there maybe four years ago when some of my fantasy roleplay ideas veered into the erotic and I didn't know where to park it.  Been parking stuff there ever since.