2834 réponses à ce sujet

[Recidiva]

Sialater wrote...

I agree.

*sigh* 

Death is lighter than a feather, duty heavier than a mountain.

I know, right? 

Here I am one of the most death-wishy people by nature person - I'm only alive 'cause it would upset my kids and husband if I weren't - and there's finally a game where I get to honorably die.

Yes!  That!  I'll do that!  Me!  MEEEE!

[mousestalker]

Recidiva wrote...

Sialater wrote...

I agree.

*sigh* 

Death is lighter than a feather, duty heavier than a mountain.

I know, right? 

Here I am one of the most death-wishy people by nature person - I'm only alive 'cause it would upset my kids and husband if I weren't - and there's finally a game where I get to honorably die.

Yes!  That!  I'll do that!  Me!  MEEEE!

I have just one word for you: Shackles. If you chain his feet, he can't out run you.

[Sialater]

Problem is, that's the code Alistair lives by. And it's not even from his world. LOL





Careful, Mousestalker, you'll give the fangirls ideas.

[Recidiva]

mousestalker wrote...

I have just one word for you: Shackles. If you chain his feet, he can't out run you.

I want him to WANT to stay.  Or it's no fun.

On that note, husband and I once in an online marriage ceremony got married with manacles and not rings.

It's our preference.

[Sialater]

No one is going to sit by and let their love sacrifice to save them. You're not, I'm not, our husbands certainly won't.

[Recidiva]

Sialater wrote...

No one is going to sit by and let their love sacrifice to save them. You're not, I'm not, our husbands certainly won't.

Well, I wouldn't anyway.  But I get that I'm weird.  I'm okay with it.

[Sialater]

Recidiva wrote...

Sialater wrote...

No one is going to sit by and let their love sacrifice to save them. You're not, I'm not, our husbands certainly won't.

Well, I wouldn't anyway.  But I get that I'm weird.  I'm okay with it.

Nope, not wierd.  had I played this game blind, I'd have ended up with your first ending. 

I was so upset in Jade Empire when you die that I quit for a while.  I had to have my husband assure me you get out of it before I continued.  Dammit, my Spirit Monk deserved a happy ending!  I don't LIKE unhappy endings.

[mousestalker]

Sialater wrote...

Recidiva wrote...

Sialater wrote...

No one is going to sit by and let their love sacrifice to save them. You're not, I'm not, our husbands certainly won't.

Well, I wouldn't anyway.  But I get that I'm weird.  I'm okay with it.

Nope, not wierd.  had I played this game blind, I'd have ended up with your first ending. 

I was so upset in Jade Empire when you die that I quit for a while.  I had to have my husband assure me you get out of it before I continued.  Dammit, my Spirit Monk deserved a happy ending!  I don't LIKE unhappy endings.

I get the self-sacrifice part. I just wanted the option to reason with Alistair. Or whack him over the head with a big stick. Or both....

As for the happy ending. This is a game. I dunno about you, but I play games to divert me from reality. I am keenly aware of the dearth of happy endings in life. I don't want realism. Like Buffy said: "Lie to me".

Modifié par mousestalker, 22 décembre 2009 - 07:14 .

[Recidiva]

Sialater wrote...

Nope, not wierd.  had I played this game blind, I'd have ended up with your first ending. 

I was so upset in Jade Empire when you die that I quit for a while.  I had to have my husband assure me you get out of it before I continued.  Dammit, my Spirit Monk deserved a happy ending!  I don't LIKE unhappy endings.

Yeah, it's funny.  I remember when I was a kid my parents took me to go see "Children Of A Lesser God" and that's an amazing play, beautiful, complicated.  And very real and also very disappointing and heartbreaking.

I remember hearing my dad say on the way out "For $60 a seat they can't give us a happy ending?"  As an artist it made me think about how artists want to portray real life, and people that have enough real life go to art to experience something different.

So I'm pretty sensitive to bridging the gap between being "true to reality" and giving an audience what they want - satisfaction.

The sacrifice ending was satisfying, but I had to figure out through spoilers how to get it.  It wasn't intuitive.  And then of course my mod ending is a result of that frustration.

Ultimately it means I can't really navigate that world without someonee explaining to me their reasoning and me saying basically "Well, that's stupid.  How the hell would I have figured that one out?"

So it contributes to feeling manipulated and also there's an echo of that "For 60 bucks (and more for DLC) I can't get a happy ending at all?  Ever?  Really?"

Yeah, I get that it's grey.  But that's too far gone.  Nobody plays a game to be frustrated and heartbroken and make no progress.

[Sialater]

Who'd have thought that you'd get a happier ending telling the love of your pixilated life, "Everyone's just out for themselves (and by everyone, that means me, too.)?" That's not something you tell someone you love when they've just gotten all their delusions shattered around them in tiny pieces. At least not in quite that blunt of a fashion.

[Recidiva]

Sialater wrote...

Who'd have thought that you'd get a happier ending telling the love of your pixilated life, "Everyone's just out for themselves (and by everyone, that means me, too.)?" That's not something you tell someone you love when they've just gotten all their delusions shattered around them in tiny pieces. At least not in quite that blunt of a fashion.

And that's where the game broke up with me twice...and I accepted the outcome.

Although I did go back to save Alistair's life and make sure I did exactly that, but that was a guilt thing.

Personal outrage be damned, gotta save him.  Even...and even especially if he doesn't appreciate it.

[Recidiva]

Wow. That takes dedication. My daughter got Bodahn to tell her that he didn't have anything else to tell her.



I never listened to every single rumor.



*slow clapping*

[Seallyn]

Sialater wrote...

Who'd have thought that you'd get a happier ending telling the love of your pixilated life, "Everyone's just out for themselves (and by everyone, that means me, too.)?" That's not something you tell someone you love when they've just gotten all their delusions shattered around them in tiny pieces. At least not in quite that blunt of a fashion.

Exactly.  I only chose that option so Alistair wouldn't be such a d*ck to me later, but seriously everyone?  Exagerate much?  After I say that I choose the option to say, "As long as you still listen to me." 

As far as the happy ending, there really is none.  If you both live (because of the ritual) you have that hanging in mind for the rest of your life.  If you die, you'll be fine, but Alistair's all heartbroken.  If he dies, you're all jacked up.  Bah.

Oh and to talk about the GREY matter (ha) anyway, on the commercial they say or it's written, that not every hero is pure.  Fitting.

[Seallyn]

Recidiva wrote...

Wow. That takes dedication. My daughter got Bodahn to tell her that he didn't have anything else to tell her.

I never listened to every single rumor.

*slow clapping*

After listening to everyone's crap a gazillion times I finally discovered the greatest gift of all.  The ESC key.  Muahaha.  I never have to listen to another conversation again, unless I want to.

[ozsras]

On Wynne, I understand why she slams the PC for being in a
relationship, that doesn't mean any PC of mine takes kindly to such
assertions. And she does apologize later, however I feel that Wynne as
a character is a fair bit more jaded or limited than she leads on. Her
mentor advice of staying the course and taking joy in your duty is all
fine and well, especially given that the PC has unavoidable and
life-threatening duties to fulfill.

Still I feel like her,
"find joy in what you have to do" advice is one born of years of having
her will broken over the knee of the chantry. I think deep down she is
in fact a bit jaded and perhaps jealous of those outside the circle who
can live their lives as they choose. Mages are given next to no true
free will, they can't leave the tower unless under direct supervision
from the chantry, they are watched literally all the time,  they aren't
allowed to have children (and likely aren't allowed to marry either),
and the penalties for not adhering to these rules is death or a
different kind of death in being made tranquil. Wynne states herself
how unhappy she was growing up in the tower, she also mentioned that
her son was taken from her by the chantry. Accepting or not having your
own child taken from you would have a serious effect on anyone, I think
she displaced her gaping loss onto the apprentice mages, she would be a
mother figure for them since she couldn't be the mother she wanted to
be. And for her part she ended up being a relatively happy and
kind-hearted person, however her story is one of loss and crushed
dreams not of happy service to the circle and finding herself.  

Incidentally
I find the theme of, "being forced into roles" to be common in this
game. Wynne and the circle mages being one example, your PC and being
forced to become a Grey Warden, Alistair being forced to become king,
Zevran being forced to become a Crow, and several others that are
escaping me atm. Point is it seems to be a reoccurring theme, being
forced to be happy where you are because you can't change the path
you're on.

Hmm, I can see Wynne being jaded. I just don't know about the broken will part. I guess I see her more - I don't know - accepting? Like, she lived in the Tower all her life, well most of her life, and the life before that wasn't much fun for her. So I could see her accepting the Tower and the Chantry's views just because it got her out of her life at that farm. She does say she struggled with it when she was younger, I got the impression she was a teenager at the time, and that's how she slowly became friends with that Revered Mother so I could see her being angry and frustrated during that time and then slowly accepting being a mage in the Tower. (shrugs) I don't know I just don't see her as being broken. I don't know, I just hate it in books, movies and television where the female, who is supposed to be strong and commanding, is just really broken and can't figure out how to live her life without someone telling her exactly what to do. And I guess Wynne did do that? But I really want her to be - idk - just a strong woman who accepted the Tower life just to get away from a life that would suck without the Tower. Ugh, but that's not really better is it? GAH, damn you Bioware! I was happy with a older woman in my party who kicks all kinds of ass and is totally at peace with herself!!! *sighs*

RE: forced into roles
I definitely agree with this. I mean if you look at the party the only people who come with you because they want to are... Leliana, Oghren and...that's it? I think. And that's why, and I'm going to probably get stares of "you are really crazy", I love Anora. I mean, she's the Queen and she wants to stay the Queen and rule. At the point where I met her I was so tired of making choices for everyone in Ferelden I was just happy to see someone *want* to step up to the plate and was forceful about it. LOL I actually wanted to hug her - I was so happy to see that she knew what she wanted and wouldn't let anything get in her way to get it.

Yes this does seem about right, by all accounts the PC should be in
their 20's. The Dwarf Commoner is the younger brother/sister to Rica,
the Human Noble is the youngest Cousland, Jowan is considered old for
an apprentice mage and has been there longer than the PC, the Dwarf
Noble is younger than Trian (who appears to be in his early to mid
30's), the city elf...well just look at the rest of the wedding party,
the dalish elf is referred to as "da'len" (child) by many in the clan.

Yeah, and I kinda found that off putting. But, eh, it's not a big deal.

[Zachriel]

Damn, I will never be able to keep up with this thread.  So much time lost that I'll never get back....

There were a lot of things on previous pages I would have liked to comment on, but rather than disrupt the flow of conversation I guess I'll just jump in right here.

Yeah, it's funny.  I remember when I was a kid my parents took me to go see "Children Of A Lesser God" and that's an amazing play, beautiful, complicated.  And very real and also very disappointing and heartbreaking.

I remember hearing my dad say on the way out "For $60 a seat they can't give us a happy ending?"  As an artist it made me think about how artists want to portray real life, and people that have enough real life go to art to experience something different.

So I'm pretty sensitive to bridging the gap between being "true to reality" and giving an audience what they want - satisfaction.

The sacrifice ending was satisfying, but I had to figure out through spoilers how to get it.  It wasn't intuitive.  And then of course my mod ending is a result of that frustration.

Ultimately it means I can't really navigate that world without someonee explaining to me their reasoning and me saying basically "Well, that's stupid.  How the hell would I have figured that one out?"

So it contributes to feeling manipulated and also there's an echo of that "For 60 bucks (and more for DLC) I can't get a happy ending at all?  Ever?  Really?"

Yeah, I get that it's grey.  But that's too far gone.  Nobody plays a game to be frustrated and heartbroken and make no progress.

Absolutely true.  I've experienced my share of loss, failure, and humiliation in my real life.  For me, the very best thing about these types of games is the chance to be the hero who wins out against all odds, saves the world, and gets the girl.  Yeah, that's not realistic, but who cares.   That's why it's called "fanstasy" for ****'s sake!

I can - kind of - get an ending like that with male characters, if I harden Allistair, romance Leliana, and make Loghain sacrifice himself.  

[Templ]

Hmm, I was in fact very satisfied with the ending, as I'm not really a fan of those "live happily ever after" storylines. Here's how it went for me:



- let Loghain live (my char doesn't take anything personal) and Alistair (his abrupt departure was indeed a bit of a shocker, but nothing I couldn't handle) marry Anora

- produce a God child (makes for an interesting future)

- kill the cute (I'm weird) dragon

- leave Fereldan to travel with Leliana, Zevran, and Sten (though I'm guessing Sten will want to remain in the Qunari lands once we get there) for a time

- eventually seek out Morrigan and see what became of the child



What more could you ask for? It's a perfect ending, haha.

-

[Recidiva]

SpaceAlex wrote...

Hmm, I was in fact very satisfied with the ending, as I'm not really a fan of those "live happily ever after" storylines. Here's how it went for me:

- let Loghain live (my char doesn't take anything personal) and Alistair (his abrupt departure was indeed a bit of a shocker, but nothing I couldn't handle) marry Anora
- produce a God child (makes for an interesting future)
- kill the cute (I'm weird) dragon
- leave Fereldan to travel with Leliana, Zevran, and Sten (though I'm guessing Sten will want to remain in the Qunari lands once we get there) for a time
- eventually seek out Morrigan and see what became of the child

What more could you ask for? It's a perfect ending, haha.
-

Yup.  I can agree with that.  As a woman though, the Alistair gravity well is difficult to escape.  And he's still the character I'd get along best with anyway out of all of them in principle.

It's hard to replay and realize that no matter what you do with the guy, you're either betraying him or betraying what he believes in.

So I don't really think there's a happy ending possible, really.  You can compromise, but compromise doesn't grant me satisfaction.

[tigrina]

Sialater wrote...
I was so upset in Jade Empire when you die that I quit for a while.  I had to have my husband assure me you get out of it before I continued.  Dammit, my Spirit Monk deserved a happy ending!  I don't LIKE unhappy endings.

Heh, I didn't have that in that game just yet, because I knew it wasn't the end of game yet (don't ask how I knew, I just knew).

Then again, I was enraged with Kotor when you find out who you were supposed to be. Threw the bloody game into a corner for a while too. I hate being forced into a role I would refuse to play.

I was more then unhappy to give up one of my party in ME. That one is also a game I didn't play to the end often.

But yes, give me an option for a happy ending. I do play games for escapism and fun.

[Recidiva]

tigrina wrote...

Heh, I didn't have that in that game just yet, because I knew it wasn't the end of game yet (don't ask how I knew, I just knew).

Then again, I was enraged with Kotor when you find out who you were supposed to be. Threw the bloody game into a corner for a while too. I hate being forced into a role I would refuse to play.

I was more then unhappy to give up one of my party in ME. That one is also a game I didn't play to the end often.

But yes, give me an option for a happy ending. I do play games for escapism and fun.

What cracks me up is I have the grace and humor and intelligence to navigate the ugliness of reality succesfully, but there's a game out there what thinks it's smarter than me.

No, you're just limiting my options.  It's not like I don't really get pain, death, loss, grief, what it does to people.  Even me.  But if I could just...be as smart as I actually am, I'd appreciate it.  I already know how to fix this if you'd just stop talking for a few moments and LISTEN to me.  Someone?  Please?

[Cybercat999]

ozsras wrote...
I love Anora. I mean, she's the Queen and she wants to stay the Queen and rule. At the point where I met her I was so tired of making choices for everyone in Ferelden I was just happy to see someone *want* to step up to the plate and was forceful about it. LOL I actually wanted to hug her - I was so happy to see that she knew what she wanted and wouldn't let anything get in her way to get it.

That is how I feel too. She is so refreshingly sure of herself and what she wants and never expects you to tell her what to do. And you dont really have to pamper her, if you have mutual goals she is on your side without persuading or giving her shiny baubles. Smart and capable of surviving anything without you holding her hand.

And she is not petty. I killed her loving father and she still put me in command of her armies for better good of Ferelden. When I just think about Morrigan having hissy fit because I deprived her of her demon baby last time..... wont even mention Alistair.

[Seallyn]

Sialater wrote...
I was so upset in Jade Empire when you die that I quit for a while.  I had to have my husband assure me you get out of it before I continued.  Dammit, my Spirit Monk deserved a happy ending!  I don't LIKE unhappy endings.

Hah.  I don't really either.  There are some days when I feel up to it, but not often.  I like playing games and watching movies and so on to escape the soulcrushing boredom I face almost everyday, so whatever I'm doing it better make me happy.  That's why I had to replay the first game when I made Alistair king.  I just wasn't up to the heartbreak.  I deal enough with that in real life, thank you.

[Seallyn]

ozsras wrote...
I love Anora. I mean, she's the Queen and she wants to stay the Queen and rule. At the point where I met her I was so tired of making choices for everyone in Ferelden I was just happy to see someone *want* to step up to the plate and was forceful about it. LOL I actually wanted to hug her - I was so happy to see that she knew what she wanted and wouldn't let anything get in her way to get it.

I don't really like Anora, but I completely agree, that at least she knows what she wants and she's not afraid to do what it takes to get it.  I wanted to smack her a couple times, but, eh.  Plus she does turn out to be a half way decent queen. 

[Recidiva]

Cybercat999 wrote...

That is how I feel too. She is so refreshingly sure of herself and what she wants and never expects you to tell her what to do. And you dont really have to pamper her, if you have mutual goals she is on your side without persuading or giving her shiny baubles. Smart and capable of surviving anything without you holding her hand.

And she is not petty. I killed her loving father and she still put me in command of her armies for better good of Ferelden. When I just think about Morrigan having hissy fit because I deprived her of her demon baby last time..... wont even mention Alistair.

I only dislike her because she likes making sure elves are slaughtered.

Never dear to my heart.

More non-racist Anoras would be nice.  But alas.  Not an option either.  If Anora was actually a good Queen, I'd let her have the country no problem.  But as she's pretty good at wiping out elves...nope.  Can't do it.

[Zachriel]

When I played as a city elf, I made the mistake of making Anora queen. At the end, I asked her to make sure my people were treated fairly from now and she agreed to let them govern themselves. Then in the epilogue she goes and kills them anyway.....



So yeah, that alone is enough of a reason for me to not like Anora anymore.