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[Zachriel]

Teryna Cousland: You cannot take anything more from me! You've already taken all that I care about!

PC: Gee thank, mom. Do you not see me standing right here? Right next to you?

Teryna Cousland: I do no fear death. I have already lost all that I love.

PC: . . . I was adopted, wasn't I?



Allistair: So. . . you know about him and Morrigan, right?

Leliana: Shhh! I think he can hear you.

PC; Yes. Yes he can.

Allistair: No, look. He's not even paying attention.

PC: Actually, I am. I can hear everything you're saying. I'm standing right next to you.

Leliana: Ummm.. Hmm... Maybe...

PC: Leliana! What the hell?

Leliana: You don't think they're serious about it, do you? The woman is a vile fiend!

PC: You know, it's rude to talk about someone behind their back. But you know what's even more rude? Talking about someone who's STANDING RIGHT NEXT TO YOU like they're not even there!



Allistair: So. . . You heard about him and Morrigan, right?

PC: Again? What the ****, Allistair? You going to tell everyone? Hey, let's have a parade. We'll invite all of Denerim. Come on everybody, come hear about Morrigan and the Gray Warden! They're having sex!

Wynne: I. . . belive I know what you're talking about, yes.

Allistair: Well, you don't think it's a good idea, do you? I mean, she's got to be a bad influence. . . Oh, this can't be good!

PC; I can STILL hear you.

Wynne: Well, try to think of it from another point of view. Maybe he'll be a good influence on her.

PC: Hey, thank you Wynne.

Allistair: Why do you have to be so understanding? Can't you see I'm trying to rant here?

PC: Why do you have to keep talking about me like I'm not here?

Wynne: Oh. Well, you just go ahead and rant dear. I'll just smile and nod my head.

PC: You know, Wynne... I just might do some serious ranting here in a minute.

[Xandurpein]

Wynne: I wonder. Do you think an Abomination can ever be saved?
PC: Hello! Earth calling Wynne. We just saved a boy in Redcliff who was an abomination and you were there. Could you please try and pay attention to what we are doing in the future, instead of being all stuck on your own little spirit problem.

Modifié par Xandurpein, 12 janvier 2010 - 06:55 .

[Zachriel]

Xandurpein wrote...

Wynne: I wonder. Do you think an Abomination can ever be saved?
PC: Hello! Earth calling Wynne. We just saved a boy in Redcliff who was an abomination and you were there. Could you please try and pay attention to what we are doing in the future, instead of being all stuck on your own little spirit problem.

Heh.  I like the conversation you have with her about what defines an abomination.

PC:  If you retains one's humanity, one is not an ambomination.
Wynne:  Why. . . I had never thought about it that way, before.  Thank you, Warden.
PC:  Really, Wynne?  Really?  You're how old again?  You've been possessed for how long?  And you NEVER thought of this before?  Not once?  Are you ****ing kidding me?

[Costin_Razvan]

Arl Eamon" Warden, help us settle this argument.

Me: I nominate Loghain for king! Oh and someone please behead Alistair.



"Gasps of shock."



After the Arch-Demon is killed



Loghain: so its done, what would you ask of me warden?

Me: Nothing, but when do we march on Orlais?

Loghain: Tonight.

Me: Good.

[nos_astra]

Godak wrote...
Dear Diary,

Oghren and Wynne were having sex in my tent.
Also, my retinas spontaneously combusted.
I'm pretty sure these two events are connected.

***

Dear Diary,

I saw Wynne and Dog having sex in my tent today.
Apparently Wynne's eyesight is failing her.
Mine, despite the continual outbursts of flaming-retinitis, is not.

***

Dear Diary,

Wynne had sex with a log that she found inside my tent.
I told Wynne she could have it. The log and the tent.

***

Dear Diary,

Wynne was having sex with the tent today.
I think her standards are getting higher.

I really should know better. WHY am I drinking coffee while reading?

*wipes tears*

[Xandurpein]

Costin_Razvan wrote...

Arl Eamon" Warden, help us settle this argument.
Me: I nominate Loghain for king! Oh and someone please behead Alistair.

"Gasps of shock."

After the Arch-Demon is killed

Loghain: so its done, what would you ask of me warden?
Me: Nothing, but when do we march on Orlais?
Loghain: Tonight.
Me: Good.

Yes, absolutely!!!

[nyxocity]

Why oh why didn't I discover this thread when you guys were talking about Supernatural and Buffy and Angel and Firefly, and girl gamers vs. guy gamers and DAO writing/character discussion and all the really interesting stuff in addition to the hysterical entertainment? *is bitter on missing out* I've been working my way reading through this entire thread for days now. It never gets boring.

[Recidiva]

thenyxie wrote...

Why oh why didn't I discover this thread when you guys were talking about Supernatural and Buffy and Angel and Firefly, and girl gamers vs. guy gamers and DAO writing/character discussion and all the really interesting stuff in addition to the hysterical entertainment? *is bitter on missing out* I've been working my way reading through this entire thread for days now. It never gets boring.

The nerd fest never ends as far as I'm concerned!

All outpourings of fandom are appreciated.

And I'm intimidated by how much funnier everyone else is.  It's awesome.

[Zachriel]

And I'm intimidated by how much funnier everyone else is. It's awesome.

Ha! No way. I am sure I am the least entertaining person here, though I do try. Uh oh... Family Guy flashback coming on.



Peter: I can be just as non competitive as anyone else. In fact, I'm the MOST non competitive. So I win!

[Recidiva]

Zachriel wrote...

Ha! No way. I am sure I am the least entertaining person here, though I do try. Uh oh... Family Guy flashback coming on.

Peter: I can be just as non competitive as anyone else. In fact, I'm the MOST non competitive. So I win!

But I'm the most humble!  Neener neener neeeeener!

[nyxocity]

Recidiva wrote...

thenyxie wrote...

Why oh why didn't I discover this thread when you guys were talking about Supernatural and Buffy and Angel and Firefly, and girl gamers vs. guy gamers and DAO writing/character discussion and all the really interesting stuff in addition to the hysterical entertainment? *is bitter on missing out* I've been working my way reading through this entire thread for days now. It never gets boring.

The nerd fest never ends as far as I'm concerned!

All outpourings of fandom are appreciated.

And I'm intimidated by how much funnier everyone else is.  It's awesome.

Bah! Whatever. Not that everyone else isn't funny and cool, but you are the funniest and coolest of them all, as far as I'm concerned. I really respect how you present your opinions as if they're just that and never once get offended, and I'm in love with your gaming family. If only. And you're hysterically funny, to boot.

Keep in mind I'm coming off reading the entire thread in a few days, so I'll be referencing things from weeks ago. I have so many thoughts after all the reading. I'd really like to hear your opinion on why they make the Alistair romance so appealing and then basically screw you over with him later on. I see you made mention of them... what was the word, sacrificing his character due to time constraints for the plot? Or something? I know it's Bioware which usually = Your Inevitably Unhappy Ending in most cases, but things really do take a downward turn after Landsmeet. I got "lucky" by starting my first game with a human noble and putting me and Alistair on the throne, and then making Morrigan's deal. That's probably the happiest ending my romantic heart could hope for, if not the most practical, even if it does make me feel slightly guilty. I do want to play one where I sacrifice my character, too, though.

I'm with you on being heartcrushed by Alistair's avoidance to the true love conquers all thing. I'm just glad my husband agrees with me on that, too.

I have yet to finish the game, although I've begun three. I think I'm just not really that inspired after all the great roleplay and dialogue you get before Landsmeet. And slogging your way to the Archdemon is a total pain in the @ss. I'm playing on XBox, but even on casual it's not as easy as it sounds like it was for you. I was kind of ready for the battle royale to start right after everyone said goodbye. Fight after fight has lost its appeal, especially when so often losing against the second battle with the mage darkspawn.

Going back to the Angel and Spike thing... I love them both to pieces, but I'll always love Angel a tiny bit more. In this game, although Alistair nowhere comes close to Angel's brooding, he is so Angel to me in terms of how things go with the plot (there's also the hair similarity, which makes me giggle, especially when he admits having a mild obsession with it). And Zev is totally Spike, except that he won't admit to being love's b*tch.

Mal. Mal is my favorite character from Firefly, bar none. Possibly one of my favorite characters ever. You're so right in saying that he never got the chance to be ruined by Joss's need for the characters to be all "I want to be with you but my duty (curse, etc.) prevents it". I love Nathan on Castle, too, and his little homages to Firefly make my fannish heart gleeful.

Supernatural; currently my favorite show ever. I love that although the characters are burdened, the whining doesn't take front and center. I can't stand whiny guys--which makes my attraction to Alistair all the more amazing. I was the girl shrieking with glee in the theater when they killed off Scott Summers in the first reel of X-Men 3.

So how is your latest slow playthrough going?

P.S. Just saw this: Personalities are interesting things.  I like the Myers-Briggs personality tests that determines personality types.

My type is the "Counselor Idealist" which makes up about 1% of the population.

So that makes you an INFJ, right? I'm an ENTP and a complete Myers-Briggs enthusiast. I can talk about my interests forever, but otherwise I'm on the low side for extraverted percentage, usually somewhere in the 60's. Hoping this post didn't make you tired

Modifié par thenyxie, 12 janvier 2010 - 03:21 .

[Sialater]

Oh, God, Castle's costume for Halloween ROCKED. Even if it was a red coat. LOL I think he liked playing Mal a little too much.





Actually, I rank the Zev/PC/Alistair triangle up there as one of the more frustrating. Have you ever noticed no strong woman in entertainment (Can't really say Hollywood, since Bioware is still free of THAT infection), never gets a happy ending? The man either leaves her for duty, or dies tragically, or she has to leave him for duty or she dies? Babylon 5 started me on this track of getting peeved about this. I blame Ivanova and Marcus.

[Recidiva]

thenyxie wrote...

Bah! Whatever. Not that everyone else isn't funny and cool, but you are the funniest and coolest of them all, as far as I'm concerned. I really respect how you present your opinions as if they're just that and never once get offended, and I'm in love with your gaming family. If only. And you're hysterically funny, to boot.

Keep in mind I'm coming off reading the entire thread in a few days, so I'll be referencing things from weeks ago. I have so many thoughts after all the reading. I'd really like to hear your opinion on why they make the Alistair romance so appealing and then basically screw you over with him later on. I see you made mention of them... what was the word, sacrificing his character due to time constraints for the plot? Or something? I know it's Bioware which usually = Your Inevitably Unhappy Ending in most cases, but things really do take a downward turn after Landsmeet. I got "lucky" by starting my first game with a human noble and putting me and Alistair on the throne, and then making Morrigan's deal. That's probably the happiest ending my romantic heart could hope for, if not the most practical, even if it does make me feel slightly guilty. I do want to play one where I sacrifice my character, too, though.

I'm with you on being heartcrushed by Alistair's avoidance to the true love conquers all thing. I'm just glad my husband agrees with me on that, too.

I have yet to finish the game, although I've begun three. I think I'm just not really that inspired after all the great roleplay and dialogue you get before Landsmeet. And slogging your way to the Archdemon is a total pain in the @ss. I'm playing on XBox, but even on casual it's not as easy as it sounds like it was for you. I was kind of ready for the battle royale to start right after everyone said goodbye. Fight after fight has lost its appeal, especially when so often losing against the second battle with the mage darkspawn.

Going back to the Angel and Spike thing... I love them both to pieces, but I'll always love Angel a tiny bit more. In this game, although Alistair nowhere comes close to Angel's brooding, he is so Angel to me in terms of how things go with the plot (there's also the hair similarity, which makes me giggle, especially when he admits having a mild obsession with it). And Zev is totally Spike, except that he won't admit to being love's b*tch.

Mal. Mal is my favorite character from Firefly, bar none. Possibly one of my favorite characters ever. You're so right in saying that he never got the chance to be ruined by Joss's need for the characters to be all "I want to be with you but my duty (curse, etc.) prevents it". I love Nathan on Castle, too, and his little homages to Firefly make my fannish heart gleeful.

Supernatural; currently my favorite show ever. I love that although the characters are burdened, the whining doesn't take front and center. I can't stand whiny guys--which makes my attraction to Alistair all the more amazing. I was the girl shrieking with glee in the theater when they killed off Scott Summers in the first reel of X-Men 3.

So how is your latest slow playthrough going?

Yay!  Thank you!  I'm glad the thread is fun.  I've really been enjoying this. 

As for Alistair, I think David Gaider said that he had too many problems writing a very strong leader character as a foil for the PC.  I can see how they made that choice, but I don't agree with it.  And I think that if they were going to make that choice, they should have known that in order to keep the character true to...some standard...they put too many plot eggs in one basket.  I think he should have been split into at least two, possibly three, characters.  I would have stayed with him the way he was at Ostagar.  He was awesome.  The wishy washy "I don't want to lead" stuff just put me off, and the boy who would be king was just all over the place.

As for the romance, I think they managed to create a catastrophic success.  David Gaider's writing of the romance and Steve Valentine's voice acting created a character that was...frankly...too good for the story line and for the character.  Certainly raised the PC's expectations that he wouldn't be a total basket case.

They really put together something amazing and then said "Well, this is a game about sacrifice so...."  *arterial spray*  It seems that all of the character inconsistencies are due to the story being insanely complicated, and that they just didn't have the time to do everything they might have wanted to do...and get it on the shelves in this century.

This is a bit like "KIng Lear - The Game" where you're screwed entirely if your motivation is romance and you're involved wtih Alistair.   It does well on delivering on fame or power, but to write such an amazing romance and then make it explode, was ultimately not a creative choice I agree with.

I have no problem with the sacrifice aspect (I always sacrifice myself).  I have a serious problem with taking a character written the way Alistair is written and performed, and bringing in race and class as a determining factor of the survivability of the romance.  Also, I think the "hardening" concept is...flat out insane and so badly done it's the worst thing in the game for me. 

It just looked like they created something beautiful and then tried to figure out how to ruin it.  Which might be fine in a tragedy like King Lear, but really...sucks as a gaming experience.  I understand that it's endearing and engaging and then...it just kicks you in the face for caring.  So as much as I adore this game and love the immersion, I see no real reason to make a lot of the choices they did, other than that they really went too far with the "Grey" idea, and made it impossible to gain real ground.  Any ground you gained, they'd then take it away from you. 

Wow, I wouldn't consider that Zevran is the least bit like Spike...really?  I can't see it in the least.  Maybe it's the accents.  Zevran is avoidey and glib.  Spike is "strike straight to the heart with mini marshmallows."  I can't imagine Spike giving someone he cared for an earring off a dead guy.   Spike's my favorite.  And not just for "Out...for...a...walk....****."  Oh, so many things.  Mostly being absolutely true to the heart.  Zevran is true to other anatomy it seemed. 

My playthrough's going well.  It's..so...pretty!  But I also just bought Neverwinter Nights (meh...) and Majesty 2 (I miss the gnomes...) and KOTOR for PC.  I've been skipping back and forth!  I'm halfway through season four of Supernatural...and my vacation ends in three days...

Weird thing is I've had so much freelance work on my "vacation" that I'm pretty much STILL working all day long.

[Recidiva]

thenyxie wrote...

So that makes you an INFJ, right? I'm an ENTP and a complete Myers-Briggs enthusiast. I can talk about my interests forever, but otherwise I'm on the low side for extraverted percentage, usually somewhere in the 60's. Hoping this post didn't make you tired

Yup!  That's me!

One of the weird aspects of my type is they pretty much say I'm as close to a psychic as you're going to get.  Whatever it is, I can pick it up.  People around me physically are used to me picking up what's in their heads.  So as weird as that sounds, being around me and me being around other people has that added level of challenge.  I can either scare people or freak them out or that makes them really comfortable around me.  But I'm used to the "GET OUT OF MY HEAD" reactions.

Really, I don't WANT to know what's in a lot of people's heads, staying away from them is good for me.

My husband's the opposite of me except for the "I".   ISTJ.  Duty fulfiller.

Talking online fortunately doesn't make me tired.  It's the physical presence of people and having to deal with that.

Modifié par Recidiva, 12 janvier 2010 - 03:50 .

[Recidiva]

Sialater wrote...

Oh, God, Castle's costume for Halloween ROCKED. Even if it was a red coat. LOL I think he liked playing Mal a little too much.


Actually, I rank the Zev/PC/Alistair triangle up there as one of the more frustrating. Have you ever noticed no strong woman in entertainment (Can't really say Hollywood, since Bioware is still free of THAT infection), never gets a happy ending? The man either leaves her for duty, or dies tragically, or she has to leave him for duty or she dies? Babylon 5 started me on this track of getting peeved about this. I blame Ivanova and Marcus.

And this is one of the things that seriously angers me.  And again why I don't care for comic books, that all favor how violent life is and how you can't afford to love each other.  "They Spidermanned me!" is my complaint when a male character tells a woman he has to stay away from her "for her own good."

When Joss Whedon did it to Oz AND to Angel...man, was I angry.  He was about to do it to Mal, too.  I'd have given that series six more episodes before Mal turned into some castrated weeping pile of "it hurts!"

What is it with being unable to have a romance and a life and have both be strong entities?

It's like having to choose between being a spellcaster and a warrior.

"Well, I want to be able to fight AND think."  "NO!"

[mousestalker]

Recidiva wrote...

thenyxie wrote...

So that makes you an INFJ, right? I'm an ENTP and a complete Myers-Briggs enthusiast. I can talk about my interests forever, but otherwise I'm on the low side for extraverted percentage, usually somewhere in the 60's. Hoping this post didn't make you tired

Yup!  That's me!

One of the weird aspects of my type is they pretty much say I'm as close to a psychic as you're going to get.  Whatever it is, I can pick it up.  People around me physically are used to me picking up what's in their heads.  So as weird as that sounds, being around me and me being around other people has that added level of challenge.  I can either scare people or freak them out or that makes them really comfortable around me.  But I'm used to the "GET OUT OF MY HEAD" reactions.

Really, I don't WANT to know what's in a lot of people's heads, staying away from them is good for me.

My husband's the opposite of me except for the "I".   ISTJ.  Duty fulfiller.

Talking online fortunately doesn't make me tired.  It's the physical presence of people and having to deal with that.

I'm borderline on all of the letter codes except for I. I peg introvert. What's funny is I first took the Meyers-Briggs as part of a group. We all took it together, had it scored then discussed as a group. No one believed that I was an introvert.

But I think that's the way of the world isn't it? We introverts hoard our energy and the extroverts try to think of appealing activities to lure us out of our hidey holes so they can suck it away from us. In some ways, the world is populated by emotional vampires.

[Recidiva]

mousestalker wrote...

I'm borderline on all of the letter codes except for I. I peg introvert. What's funny is I first took the Meyers-Briggs as part of a group. We all took it together, had it scored then discussed as a group. No one believed that I was an introvert.

But I think that's the way of the world isn't it? We introverts hoard our energy and the extroverts try to think of appealing activities to lure us out of our hidey holes so they can suck it away from us. In some ways, the world is populated by emotional vampires.

I am so...not borderline.   I'm as far into these categories as you can go.  With my husband the absolute opposite on the same issues, but both the same on introversion.

It was funny, my sister was the one that had met take the test first.  She'd spent her whole life trying to pry me out of my room.  She would in fact BRIBE me to go to movies with her.  I never wanted to go, but I'd go for money.  She spent so much time complaining about how wrong I was and how there was something wrong with me because I was just a hamster in my own personal Habitrail...that I should get out more...

I mean, I was never shy or awkward, I just always wanted to go home and read a book or play a game or sing some music.  Anything but this.

But then when she saw my results, she finally got it.  I started getting respect from her on that day as to my nature.

I was a bit irked that it took a survey to convince her, when I couldn't convince her at all.  I'd been telling her exactly the same thing for a lifetime.  She'd get so mad. 

Her:  Sometimes I feel like all we'd have to do is slide a pizza underneath your door and you'd be fine!
Me:  I don't need anybody to get me pizza.
Her:  Oh! *offended face*

The world is very much so populated by emotional vampires.  They don't even know what they're doing.  I'm pretty good at managing it now, but still I prefer to stay away from folks who are nothing but fangs and hunger who think they're just making small talk.  I prefer self aware vampires, thank you! 

[nyxocity]

Sialater wrote...

Oh, God, Castle's costume for Halloween ROCKED. Even if it was a red coat. LOL I think he liked playing Mal a little too much.


Actually, I rank the Zev/PC/Alistair triangle up there as one of the more frustrating. Have you ever noticed no strong woman in entertainment (Can't really say Hollywood, since Bioware is still free of THAT infection), never gets a happy ending? The man either leaves her for duty, or dies tragically, or she has to leave him for duty or she dies? Babylon 5 started me on this track of getting peeved about this. I blame Ivanova and Marcus.

Nathan indeed loved playing Mal way too much. He still calls Mal as his favorite for any character he's ever played, and he's still very much involved with the cast members and the people who are fans of the show. So I just KNOW that homage was completely his idea *L* I'm surprised they got away with it, considering, but that's probably why they used the red coat. Even better? His daughter's reaction: "But you wore that five years ago!" *dies laughing* If you don't already, I suggest following Nathan on Twitter. He's one of the reasons I got a Twitter account. He's just made of awesome.

I keep thinking about this and thinking that can't be true, can it? But I've yet to come up with a disproving example, so it probably is. I think the one that annoyed me most was Ellen Ripley from the Alien series. She goes through all that s***, survives SO much, loses SO much, and then still has to die to end the reign of terror--and then gets brought back as a half-Alien clone to go through more s***.  And that's even without a real romance to speak of.

I think you can get a truly happy ending with Zev, if you sacrifice Loghain at the end. Other than that, it's all levels of kind of happy to mostly happy or tragedy. I do find it really frustrating that there's no truly happy ending to the Alistair situation. Especially after they make him so awesome and dangle him out there like that, knowing most of us are going to take the bait. It makes me feel slightly suckered.

[Recidiva]

thenyxie wrote...

Nathan indeed loved playing Mal way too much. He still calls Mal as his favorite for any character he's ever played, and he's still very much involved with the cast members and the people who are fans of the show. So I just KNOW that homage was completely his idea *L* I'm surprised they got away with it, considering, but that's probably why they used the red coat. Even better? His daughter's reaction: "But you wore that five years ago!" *dies laughing* If you don't already, I suggest following Nathan on Twitter. He's one of the reasons I got a Twitter account. He's just made of awesome.

I keep thinking about this and thinking that can't be true, can it? But I've yet to come up with a disproving example, so it probably is. I think the one that annoyed me most was Ellen Ripley from the Alien series. She goes through all that s***, survives SO much, loses SO much, and then still has to die to end the reign of terror--and then gets brought back as a half-Alien clone to go through more s***.  And that's even without a real romance to speak of.

I think you can get a truly happy ending with Zev, if you sacrifice Loghain at the end. Other than that, it's all levels of kind of happy to mostly happy or tragedy. I do find it really frustrating that there's no truly happy ending to the Alistair situation. Especially after they make him so awesome and dangle him out there like that, knowing most of us are going to take the bait. It makes me feel slightly suckered.

I've tried starting Twitter a few times, and never managed.  Tell me how to stalk Nathan.  I might manage if that's the incentive.  Every time I go to the site I see...acres of spam and I have no idea where to start.

Yeah, it's the sucker thing that gets me the most.   The main thing I get is "Hah hah!  Made you care!  Don't you feel stupid now."

It's not the same shock as "The Sixth Sense" where it was there all the time and I just didn't see it.  It WASN'T there all the time and there was no inkling of it.  And I was looking!  Very manipulative.

[nyxocity]

Recidiva wrote...

Yay!  Thank you!  I'm glad the thread is fun.  I've really been enjoying this. 

As for Alistair, I think David Gaider said that he had too many problems writing a very strong leader character as a foil for the PC.  I can see how they made that choice, but I don't agree with it.  And I think that if they were going to make that choice, they should have known that in order to keep the character true to...some standard...they put too many plot eggs in one basket.  I think he should have been split into at least two, possibly three, characters.  I would have stayed with him the way he was at Ostagar.  He was awesome.  The wishy washy "I don't want to lead" stuff just put me off, and the boy who would be king was just all over the place.

As for the romance, I think they managed to create a catastrophic success.  David Gaider's writing of the romance and Steve Valentine's voice acting created a character that was...frankly...too good for the story line and for the character.  Certainly raised the PC's expectations that he wouldn't be a total basket case.

They really put together something amazing and then said "Well, this is a game about sacrifice so...."  *arterial spray*  It seems that all of the character inconsistencies are due to the story being insanely complicated, and that they just didn't have the time to do everything they might have wanted to do...and get it on the shelves in this century.

This is a bit like "KIng Lear - The Game" where you're screwed entirely if your motivation is romance and you're involved wtih Alistair.   It does well on delivering on fame or power, but to write such an amazing romance and then make it explode, was ultimately not a creative choice I agree with.

I have no problem with the sacrifice aspect (I always sacrifice myself).  I have a serious problem with taking a character written the way Alistair is written and performed, and bringing in race and class as a determining factor of the survivability of the romance.  Also, I think the "hardening" concept is...flat out insane and so badly done it's the worst thing in the game for me. 

It just looked like they created something beautiful and then tried to figure out how to ruin it.  Which might be fine in a tragedy like King Lear, but really...sucks as a gaming experience.  I understand that it's endearing and engaging and then...it just kicks you in the face for caring.  So as much as I adore this game and love the immersion, I see no real reason to make a lot of the choices they did, other than that they really went too far with the "Grey" idea, and made it impossible to gain real ground.  Any ground you gained, they'd then take it away from you. 

Wow, I wouldn't consider that Zevran is the least bit like Spike...really?  I can't see it in the least.  Maybe it's the accents.  Zevran is avoidey and glib.  Spike is "strike straight to the heart with mini marshmallows."  I can't imagine Spike giving someone he cared for an earring off a dead guy.   Spike's my favorite.  And not just for "Out...for...a...walk....****."  Oh, so many things.  Mostly being absolutely true to the heart.  Zevran is true to other anatomy it seemed. 

My playthrough's going well.  It's..so...pretty!  But I also just bought Neverwinter Nights (meh...) and Majesty 2 (I miss the gnomes...) and KOTOR for PC.  I've been skipping back and forth!  I'm halfway through season four of Supernatural...and my vacation ends in three days...

Weird thing is I've had so much freelance work on my "vacation" that I'm pretty much STILL working all day long.

I pretty much agree with you on every point about Alistair. They really made him amazing, and almost irresistable (to the women who would fall for him) and then they just kick you in the gut with it all. I guess for me it comes down to this: Given the way Alistair is written early on, I just can't see him deciding to kick the PC to the curb. Ever. For any reason. But then, that's probably my idea of true love always wins interfering with the perception many people seem to have that duty must come first. I would have liked to see him grow stronger as the story progressed, more gradually, instead of giving you one option to change him which is a dialogue choice no one who loves him is going to pick. With everything the characters go through, there's plenty of opportunity for him to grow. I also disagree with making race and class an issue for becoming queen/continuing the romance (and in general). I suppose I can understand the politics of that decision in a land like Ferelden even if I don't agree, but Alistair succumbing to it after you've romanced him? That, I just can't see. That's like saying it was never love at all. You're King now, sweetie; change the rules. So yeah, in a lot of ways it seems like they set you up to kick you in the face on purpose. Which is just not cool. I suppose it's too much to hope that they might make things a bit better with the expansion pack?

I was more looking at Zevran as Spike with regard to the banter, and also that if you romance him all the way, he's intense and passionate and loyal and loving until death, much like Spike. I COULD see Spike giving someone an earring off a dead guy if it really meant something to him. He DOES wear a dead Slayer's jacket as a trophy, after all, even after he gets a soul. But you're right about Zevran being avoidy in some ways, even after you romance him all the way, where Spike never is.

I never could get into Neverwinter Nights. Especially after Playing Baldur's Gate. DAO is the first RPG style game I've played since BG, and I love it for a lot of the same reasons, namely the writing and characters and the epic storyline. I'm drawn to the complexity of plot and characters.

Oh, Supernatural seasno four kicks so much butt. And season five seems to be shaping up even better. So much love for the show, and they're not even close to running out of steam like other shows in later seasons.

Heh! This is what happens when you work at home. I do it, too, unless I avoid my computer completely during time off.

[Recidiva]

thenyxie wrote...

I pretty much agree with you on every point about Alistair. They really made him amazing, and almost irresistable (to the women who would fall for him) and then they just kick you in the gut with it all. I guess for me it comes down to this: Given the way Alistair is written early on, I just can't see him deciding to kick the PC to the curb. Ever. For any reason. But then, that's probably my idea of true love always wins interfering with the perception many people seem to have that duty must come first. I would have liked to see him grow stronger as the story progressed, more gradually, instead of giving you one option to change him which is a dialogue choice no one who loves him is going to pick. With everything the characters go through, there's plenty of opportunity for him to grow. I also disagree with making race and class an issue for becoming queen/continuing the romance (and in general). I suppose I can understand the politics of that decision in a land like Ferelden even if I don't agree, but Alistair succumbing to it after you've romanced him? That, I just can't see. That's like saying it was never love at all. You're King now, sweetie; change the rules. So yeah, in a lot of ways it seems like they set you up to kick you in the face on purpose. Which is just not cool. I suppose it's too much to hope that they might make things a bit better with the expansion pack?

I was more looking at Zevran as Spike with regard to the banter, and also that if you romance him all the way, he's intense and passionate and loyal and loving until death, much like Spike. I COULD see Spike giving someone an earring off a dead guy if it really meant something to him. He DOES wear a dead Slayer's jacket as a trophy, after all, even after he gets a soul. But you're right about Zevran being avoidy in some ways, even after you romance him all the way, where Spike never is.

I never could get into Neverwinter Nights. Especially after Playing Baldur's Gate. DAO is the first RPG style game I've played since BG, and I love it for a lot of the same reasons, namely the writing and characters and the epic storyline. I'm drawn to the complexity of plot and characters.

Oh, Supernatural seasno four kicks so much butt. And season five seems to be shaping up even better. So much love for the show, and they're not even close to running out of steam like other shows in later seasons.

Heh! This is what happens when you work at home. I do it, too, unless I avoid my computer completely during time off.

Supernatural is an excellent example of occasionally having Spiderman tendencies, but generally doing so to buck them.  Every time the characters argue, they do so for very good reason and they realize they're better off together than apart. And it's a family thing, not a romance thing, but it rings absolutely true for both.

And it's true that loving someone makes them your weakest spot, but it also makes them your strongest spot.

For me, for example, in DAO, I really don't care about Ferelden or power or anything like that.  I do care about my companions.  

For me I think the characters that are best written on TV for me as a romance in this respect are probably Melinda and Jim from "Ghost Whisperer."  It's a huge departure from soap opera and the one resting place where I don't really have to deal with romance being considered disposable.  And they still come up with good stories without hacking away at the fundamental romance of the characters.

[nyxocity]

Recidiva wrote...

One of the weird aspects of my type is they pretty much say I'm as close to a psychic as you're going to get.  Whatever it is, I can pick it up.  People around me physically are used to me picking up what's in their heads.  So as weird as that sounds, being around me and me being around other people has that added level of challenge.  I can either scare people or freak them out or that makes them really comfortable around me.  But I'm used to the "GET OUT OF MY HEAD" reactions.

Your extraverted mode is Extraverted Intuition, right? That'd be part of the 'psychic' element of taking in info, but it's probably your Introverted Feeling on top of that that makes it all come together. I have the Extraverted Intuition as my promary mode, and when I pay attention, I can usually see people so clearly andfinish their sentences. Unfortunately, the side aspect of my primarily extraverted and also a perceiver means I get attached and feel a deep connection with people when I can 'see' them like that, and it just almost never works out to be mutual and I end up getting my feelings hurt. ENTP's can form incredibly deep attachments instantly because of their nature, but they also need people to feel the same way about them, and it's taken a lot of years to work through that.

But then when she saw my results, she finally got it.  I started getting respect from her on that day as to my nature.

I can totally relate to this. I had trouble understanding that people were very different from me for many years, and always felt like a weirdo. I'm like, they have to feel the same way, why don't they ever say or understand the same things? I guess I'm just weird. Which made me withdraw a lot. Then I discovered personality types and suddenly the world made complete sense to me. It wasn't that I didn't respect people, I just didn't get how different we were. Of course, I'm a NT, which is the smallest group to begin with, and the most socially inept because they have such a different way of seeing things that they often feel like aliens, and women are an even smaller percentage of that group. So yeah, Myers-Briggs really opened my eyes and put it into terms I understood.

I prefer self aware vampires, thank you! 

THIS. For all that I'm primarily extraverted, my childhood of being an only child for many years and then withdrawing later in life left with no ability to deal with people who are emotional vampires. I don't form any kind of deep bond with someone who isn't incredibly self aware. But I'll put a lot of energy into someone who is self aware and looking to be more so.

[Sialater]

Well, I'm an ENFP. Hope that doesn't make me a vampire! LOL

[nyxocity]

Recidiva wrote...

I've tried starting Twitter a few times, and never managed.  Tell me how to stalk Nathan.  I might manage if that's the incentive.  Every time I go to the site I see...acres of spam and I have no idea where to start.

Yeah, it's the sucker thing that gets me the most.   The main thing I get is "Hah hah!  Made you care!  Don't you feel stupid now."

It's not the same shock as "The Sixth Sense" where it was there all the time and I just didn't see it.  It WASN'T there all the time and there was no inkling of it.  And I was looking!  Very manipulative.

Oh, okay! Just log in to your Twitter account and go here: http://twitter.com/NathanFillion and then click on the "Follow" button. Then when you go to your "Home" page, you'll only see posts of people you've decided to follow, which, if Nathan's the only one, then he's all you'll see.

They also make an option to create lists now, which means you can add all your most desired people on Twitter to one place if you don't always want to muck through the postings of other people you follow. For example: http://twitter.com/#...thenyxie/celebs I have like, 177 people I follow on Twitter, but sometimes I just wanna catch up with Nathan and NPH, you know? So I go to that list instead of my "Home" page.

OH! Also, OMG, you MUST follow Misha Collins on Twitter if you watch Supernatural. He plays Castiel, and he is funny ALL the TIME. And kinda crazy. And panders to fandom constantly without being a wuss. http://twitter.com/mishacollins

You're absolutely right. It's not the good kind of "reveal" like Sixth Sense. It's not even a reveal. It's a 180 and haha! Gotcha! If they'd made it more clear, maybe. But they seemed to take real pleasure in kicking you in the gut abruptly after the Landsmeet. I'm almost glad I didn't get to experience it firsthand without knowing about it.  Just reading about it felt like a kick in the gut when I came here. I'd have been in tears and all messed up over it if I hadn't been forewarned on my second playthrough. And even then it still sucks.

[Recidiva]

thenyxie wrote...

Your extraverted mode is Extraverted Intuition, right? That'd be part of the 'psychic' element of taking in info, but it's probably your Introverted Feeling on top of that that makes it all come together. I have the Extraverted Intuition as my promary mode, and when I pay attention, I can usually see people so clearly andfinish their sentences. Unfortunately, the side aspect of my primarily extraverted and also a perceiver means I get attached and feel a deep connection with people when I can 'see' them like that, and it just almost never works out to be mutual and I end up getting my feelings hurt. ENTP's can form incredibly deep attachments instantly because of their nature, but they also need people to feel the same way about them, and it's taken a lot of years to work through that.

I can totally relate to this. I had trouble understanding that people were very different from me for many years, and always felt like a weirdo. I'm like, they have to feel the same way, why don't they ever say or understand the same things? I guess I'm just weird. Which made me withdraw a lot. Then I discovered personality types and suddenly the world made complete sense to me. It wasn't that I didn't respect people, I just didn't get how different we were. Of course, I'm a NT, which is the smallest group to begin with, and the most socially inept because they have such a different way of seeing things that they often feel like aliens, and women are an even smaller percentage of that group. So yeah, Myers-Briggs really opened my eyes and put it into terms I understood.

THIS. For all that I'm primarily extraverted, my childhood of being an only child for many years and then withdrawing later in life left with no ability to deal with people who are emotional vampires. I don't form any kind of deep bond with someone who isn't incredibly self aware. But I'll put a lot of energy into someone who is self aware and looking to be more so.

I'm not sure I have an extraverted mode.  What's that?

Let me explain how I grew up...when I was really little I just "knew" what people wanted to hear and I said it.  I didn't know how not to.  I didn't really always have thoughts of my own.  And it doesn't really require attention.

As a matter of fact, I'm very good at learning how NOT to finish someone's sentences for them.  My problem is in...not STARTING their sentences for them. 

If someone's in a room with me, and I'm looking at them, I can probably tell which thoughts are theirs and which ones are mine.  That takes focus.  It's when someone walks BEHIND me and I start singing the song they had going on in their head that I freak people out.  The fact is that I can't really always differentiate.  It's that part of it that takes focus.  So I was the kid at the table who was passing food to people who KNOW they didn't ask for it...but I heard it in my head.  Now I learn to wait for someone actually ASKING with their voice.  I also had a tendency to pick up the phone before it rang, stuff like that.

My sister always thought I was trying to get attention, to look like I was different.  That it was just a lucky guess.  But I never passed the wrong thing to the wrong person?  I knew I just had "different" coming out my ears and it took no effort.  I wasn't a drama queen.  I was just...entirely different by nature, with no way to change it.

In a room of people, that's...unpleasant.  And it's not just thoughts, the most prevalent thing I pick up on is mood.  So someone in a foul mood around me is going to have the effect of me being out in a storm.  I'm wet, I'm cold, I'm miserable.

It took a long, long time for me to sort a lot of it out.  To say I'm a "good judge of character" goes with the territory, so it's rare I make friendships and get betrayed or that sort of thing. 

But the fact is, it's very, very hard to keep me out of someone else's head, it's not a conscious process.

My husband and kids are used to this and are accustomed to asking me to sort of...root around in their head and figure out what they're thinking.  I'm very good at helping people sort out thoughts, redecorate their inner landscape...it's another part of my nature.  That's the counselor bit. 

Part of growing up was the process of differentiating what people wanted being separate from what I wanted to do, because it took me a real long time to figure out that I was picking up on what THEY were thinking and not just what I thought about it.  I still need a lot of silence and sort of "drying out" between human contacts to really get back to what I think.  And then when I got a little older I realized that everyone else couldn't do that, and I started to feel sorry for them.

So for me it's not a conscious or an intellectual process, it's more of a "sponge" effect, where I am just going to soak up what's in my environment without any effort and also without hardly any ability to NOT do so.  And any attempt to put up any sort of shield or barrier is anathema to me, that makes me feel like I'm living life with a condom on my head.  No thanks.  I prefer the wide open spaces to the shut-in sense.  I prefer to not be protected.

As I'm a counselor by nature, it's impossible for me to not care or want to do something to help people.  It is however exhausting and takes me further away from myself the more that I indulge.