456 réponses à ce sujet

[tetrisblock4x1]

Well no ****, happy endings have been winning the majority vote since forever, so you're pretty bloody clueless if you didn't expect that the happy ending for shepard alternative ending would receive a proportionately large majority of votes.

Face it, the rage over the last 5 minutes was in regards to the lack of Disney ending. Not the relays, not the starchild or the 3 color endings... if Shepard rode out of the citadel on wrexes back with Liara licking his balls and the rest of his friends cheering Shepard and showering him with presents, confetti and celebration cake then there wouldn't have been half of the protesting that we've seen.

Modifié par tetrisblock4x1, 20 mars 2012 - 08:25 .

[Thornne]

Thanks for your previous support to those who want a new ending. I think calling 52% a 'vast majority' may be a bit of a stretch, but perhaps it is useful data for Bioware none the less.

[DJStarstryker]

I am not surprised, but I am NOT with the majority for the answers to ANY of the questions. But then again I think I have a very different perspective on this than most. Most seem to hate the ending, with a smaller minority liking it to some degree. I'm completely indifferent to it. Yes, I can definitely think of ways to improve it (and in fact wrote a "fanfic" replacement ending for my husband to read for his Shep because I KNOW he's going to dislike it. He's gonna read it when he finishes the game in the next day or two), but at the same time, the ending there doesn't really bother me. I feel like Bioware did it on purpose, for whatever reason. And, regardless of the reason, I can understand how it could potentially work, depending on how you look at it.

I'm interested to see what Bioware's going to do as a result of this. I'm looking forward to a new explanation/ending, but if there isn't one, I'm OK with that too. Again... indifferent.

[Rockworm503]

Father_Jerusalem wrote...



So I answered your question about how the Reapers aren't being neutered in the current ending, and because you can't counter it, you get up on your high horse and ride off.

Got it.

You didn't answer anything
The reapers are here to kill us so other synthetics won't and thats not neutering them?
Their reasoning ruins the mystery of them.
Thats far worse than any possible happy ending possibly could.
Quite honestly you prove time and time again you just tout the most negative aspects of the people who disagree with you and use it against them so you can look all high and mighty.
I can't find my high horse I think yours scared it off.

[WaterWar]

As someone said, it is not as though the universe hasn't suffered. Thessia, Paleven, Tuchanka (to some degree) and Earth are all absolutely destroyed and many people/species have been seriously thinned in the population due to the harvesting. Shepard himself/herself has lost a couple of squadmembers in this battle.
All in all I think the ending is already bittersweet due to the above mentioned facts. As it is at the moment it might even just be called bitter because we get no 'sweetness' or feeling of succes (besides reapers being destroyed/controlled/mixed).

Personally I'm hoping for a DLC to include some chance for a 'nice' ending were Shepard is united with somebody he knows (LI, crew or both). This ending shouldn't be easy to obtain but require quite a high EMS rating.
Wherether or not the Starchild + Stargazer scenes should be dropped I'm a bit indifferent about. If they are kept they should maybe add some more information about what/who the Starchild is

[Rockworm503]

Thornne wrote...

Thanks for your previous support to those who want a new ending. I think calling 52% a 'vast majority' may be a bit of a stretch, but perhaps it is useful data for Bioware none the less.

It was a "vocal minority" in the first poll.
Ironic really now it can be used against us so its the majority.

[Father_Jerusalem]

Rockworm503 wrote...

Father_Jerusalem wrote...



So I answered your question about how the Reapers aren't being neutered in the current ending, and because you can't counter it, you get up on your high horse and ride off.

Got it.

You didn't answer anything
The reapers are here to kill us so other synthetics won't and thats not neutering them?
Their reasoning ruins the mystery of them.
Thats far worse than any possible happy ending possibly could.
Quite honestly you prove time and time again you just tout the most negative aspects of the people who disagree with you and use it against them so you can look all high and mighty.
I can't find my high horse I think yours scared it off.

The Reapers were created to create order among organic races, to make sure that none of them created something that would wipe out ALL life. Over the course of 37 million years, the creator lost control of the creation (or, more horrifically, they didn't) and the Reapers kept gobbling up civilization after civilization... it's like, say you have a Rhoomba. You program it to clean your living room. After a while of doing that, it fritzes out and harvest your cat to make another Rhoomba. 

Their purpose is to harvest technologically advanced species and preserve them in Reaper form before they build a bomb that can destroy EVERYTHING in existence. It's a cosmic banzai tree.

How does knowing that neuter them? I don't.. I don't get it. 

[Rockworm503]

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

Rockworm503 wrote...

Father_Jerusalem wrote...



So I answered your question about how the Reapers aren't being neutered in the current ending, and because you can't counter it, you get up on your high horse and ride off.

Got it.

You didn't answer anything
The reapers are here to kill us so other synthetics won't and thats not neutering them?
Their reasoning ruins the mystery of them.
Thats far worse than any possible happy ending possibly could.
Quite honestly you prove time and time again you just tout the most negative aspects of the people who disagree with you and use it against them so you can look all high and mighty.
I can't find my high horse I think yours scared it off.

The Reapers were created to create order among organic races, to make sure that none of them created something that would wipe out ALL life. Over the course of 37 million years, the creator lost control of the creation (or, more horrifically, they didn't) and the Reapers kept gobbling up civilization after civilization... it's like, say you have a Rhoomba. You program it to clean your living room. After a while of doing that, it fritzes out and harvest your cat to make another Rhoomba. 

Their purpose is to harvest technologically advanced species and preserve them in Reaper form before they build a bomb that can destroy EVERYTHING in existence. It's a cosmic banzai tree.

How does knowing that neuter them? I don't.. I don't get it. 

Really?  How hard is that to understand
I feel that posting that Xhibit picture would be a tad redundant at this point.
To save us from our destruction their going to completely annihalate us.  I don't care how you explain it in your head there is NO explaination that can possibly make that not retarded.

[Sal86]

Q14 doesn't prove anything about the level of 'happiness' people want in the ending, it only proves that the majority prefer:

Anything not including starchild deus ex macina (even if it's not their idea of their perfect ending) > Anything including starchild deus ex machina

[Father_Jerusalem]

Rockworm503 wrote...

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

Rockworm503 wrote...

Father_Jerusalem wrote...



So I answered your question about how the Reapers aren't being neutered in the current ending, and because you can't counter it, you get up on your high horse and ride off.

Got it.

You didn't answer anything
The reapers are here to kill us so other synthetics won't and thats not neutering them?
Their reasoning ruins the mystery of them.
Thats far worse than any possible happy ending possibly could.
Quite honestly you prove time and time again you just tout the most negative aspects of the people who disagree with you and use it against them so you can look all high and mighty.
I can't find my high horse I think yours scared it off.

The Reapers were created to create order among organic races, to make sure that none of them created something that would wipe out ALL life. Over the course of 37 million years, the creator lost control of the creation (or, more horrifically, they didn't) and the Reapers kept gobbling up civilization after civilization... it's like, say you have a Rhoomba. You program it to clean your living room. After a while of doing that, it fritzes out and harvest your cat to make another Rhoomba. 

Their purpose is to harvest technologically advanced species and preserve them in Reaper form before they build a bomb that can destroy EVERYTHING in existence. It's a cosmic banzai tree.

How does knowing that neuter them? I don't.. I don't get it. 

Really?  How hard is that to understand
I feel that posting that Xhibit picture would be a tad redundant at this point.
To save us from our destruction their going to completely annihalate us.  I don't care how you explain it in your head there is NO explaination that can possibly make that not retarded.

No. To save us from destroying ALL LIFE IN THE GALAXY, they will prune us and allow other civilizations to grow. Is it an insane plan? OF COURSE. I never claimed otherwise.

[Sal86]

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

Rockworm503 wrote...

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

Rockworm503 wrote...

Father_Jerusalem wrote...



So I answered your question about how the Reapers aren't being neutered in the current ending, and because you can't counter it, you get up on your high horse and ride off.

Got it.

You didn't answer anything
The reapers are here to kill us so other synthetics won't and thats not neutering them?
Their reasoning ruins the mystery of them.
Thats far worse than any possible happy ending possibly could.
Quite honestly you prove time and time again you just tout the most negative aspects of the people who disagree with you and use it against them so you can look all high and mighty.
I can't find my high horse I think yours scared it off.

The Reapers were created to create order among organic races, to make sure that none of them created something that would wipe out ALL life. Over the course of 37 million years, the creator lost control of the creation (or, more horrifically, they didn't) and the Reapers kept gobbling up civilization after civilization... it's like, say you have a Rhoomba. You program it to clean your living room. After a while of doing that, it fritzes out and harvest your cat to make another Rhoomba. 

Their purpose is to harvest technologically advanced species and preserve them in Reaper form before they build a bomb that can destroy EVERYTHING in existence. It's a cosmic banzai tree.

How does knowing that neuter them? I don't.. I don't get it. 

Really?  How hard is that to understand
I feel that posting that Xhibit picture would be a tad redundant at this point.
To save us from our destruction their going to completely annihalate us.  I don't care how you explain it in your head there is NO explaination that can possibly make that not retarded.

No. To save us from destroying ALL LIFE IN THE GALAXY, they will prune us and allow other civilizations to grow. Is it an insane plan? OF COURSE. I never claimed otherwise.

If that's their goal, then why don't they make *any* other efforts towards said goal? Look at FFX. The idea that using tech is wrong is woven right into their society, religion and culture. They can see evidence that people have suffered in the past for using tech. The reapers could put all that in place, and more, considerably slowing the cycle. ie instead of reaping little and often they would have one big reap now and then. Sounds better for the organics and less work/risk of death for the reapers no?

[Rockworm503]

Great so basically we're nothing more than space hedges.
Cut us so the technology THEY provide us wont destroy us.
......
Now it sounds even more retarded.

[Eddy01741]

As if it weren't obvious enough that the majority of ending complainers want the sunshine and rainbows walking off into the sunset with LI ending....


But really, it's pretty damn obvious that's what they want. I personally disagree, but hell if they're the majority I guess I can't say their opinion is straight up wrong.

There's a lot of debate towards how an RPG should end (dictated by player only? dictated by developers as if novel/film? etc.), and I guess the majority of fans feel that they should have complete control over the ending, which includes a mega happy rainbow ending, so be it I guess.

I personally feel it more heroic for great loss to occur as a cost of an even greater victory. But that's just me. I'm totally that guy who would have my grey warden kill himself to kill the archdemon instead of demon baby, etc. It's just more heroic. If I'm fighting impossible odds as the leader of the underdogs, I don't really expect to just win.

Call me a drama lover, etc. I don't care, it's just the way I am. It's just my point of view just like it's the point of view of others to want the rainbow ending. I think the main difference is that I want an engaging plot line. Escapism? Nah the very act of playing video games is already escapism for me ( I have productive things to do so the very act of spending time on playing games is "escapism"). I don't need video games to be my personal emotional pick-me-up, that's what friends, comedy tv, etc. are for (again, not hating on others, just clarifying my personal stance). I'm not saying that I don't put myself in the shoes of the player character in an RPG, I'm just saying that I don't think it ridiculous for my player character to die in order to beat the unthinkable odds stacked against him.



That all aside. THe main things I want from any DLC ending:

Fixed plot holes. Squadmate/LI randomly on Normandy when they were unconscious/dead struck by Harbinger. Normandy trying to escape earth/sol. Stuff like that.

Reaper reasoning explained. Like others, Killing organics via synthetics to prevent them from creating synthetics that will eventually kill them... makes no sense. Geth/EDI are examples of AI of whom are altruistic and reasonable. Even just saying that reapers kill all advanced species to allow new primitive species to evolve would have been a more convincing (albeit still genocidal) reason for the reaper cycle.

Closure. I know earth (with enough EMS) is saved from the reapers. How about individuals though? For example is wrex still alive? How will the universe fair from now on? Will they be able to overcome the destruction of mass relays? Will they even be able to survive the "explosions" of mass relays (personally it seemed like the mass relay explosions weren't nearly as large as the one seen in ME2 arrival, they seemed to just fall apart after having shot the "signal" to other relays in the universe). Assuming the normandy is still running away and crashes on random planet, how will my crew fare on this planet, is there hope for them to live/be rescued? How are the other planets, ie Tuchanka, Thessia, Rannoch, Palaven, etc. I just want to know what happens in general. I mean earth is saved. But will FTL travel be possible without mass relays? Are the forces on earth stranded there ? Ie would earth just have to deal with the fact that it's now made up of all type of species, etc.




In ending. If the majority wants a rainbow unicorn ending then Bioware would definitely do good (relative to general fan happiness and profit) to give it to them. I mean it is their game so we'll see if they try and let the player end the game however he/she likes, or whether they will write their own ending as if it were a novel/film/non-RPG-game.

[musicaleCA]

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

People want an ending where the
Normandy flies around, telling the fleet "Hang on bros, we got this" and
one shots every Reaper in existence with their ZOMGLASER. Everybody
then lives happily ever after. With cake.

Please cite a credible source for this assertion. I have seen no one here on BSN demanding such a wholly absurd ending.

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

The Reapers were created to create order among organic races, to make sure that none of them created something that would wipe out ALL life. Over the course of 37 million years, the creator lost control of the creation (or, more horrifically, they didn't) and the Reapers kept gobbling up civilization after civilization... it's like, say you have a Rhoomba. You program it to clean your living room. After a while of doing that, it fritzes out and harvest your cat to make another Rhoomba. 

Their purpose is to harvest technologically advanced species and preserve them in Reaper form before they build a bomb that can destroy EVERYTHING in existence. It's a cosmic banzai tree.

How does knowing that neuter them? I don't.. I don't get it. 

It's circular logic. It's entirely fallacious. Anyone with even a modicum of education in philosophy can see that. I create synthetics to destroy organics so they won't create synthetics that destroy organics. This in a universe with synthetics that strongly proclaim, as Legion did in ME2, that "all sentient life should self-determinate". The Geth are living proof that these synthetic life forms value other sentient life, perhaps even more so, than organics.

By the logic use by the StarChild, the Reapers should be harvesting the Geth to prevent organics from wiping out the Geth. It's utterly insane, and impossible for a rational mind to understand because it's simply not rational. The only reason the Geth attacked anyone was either in self defence, or because the Reapers forced them to.

In your example, the logical course of action is not to destroy the Rhoomba's creators. It's to come in and clear-out all the evil Rhoombas bent on the destruction of all cats. It's not like the Reapers would be incapable of this. The Reapers would probably even be capable of simply re-writing those synthetics' code so that they are no longer bent on destroying organic life and instead see the wisdom in allowing other species to self-determinate. In fact, we know they have such an ability, as it was clearly spelt-out in Legion's loyalty mission in ME2.

(Tread carefully! Spoilers may well be ahead! I've tried to minimize them. Read at your own peril!)







(No, really. Stop reading now. Thar be dragons...er...spoilers in dem der waters!)


Finally, I honestly don't think the majority of people who have taken issue with the endings in their current state are after a shoehorned "sunshine and kittens" end. Speaking for myself, I am after an ending that makes sense. Several in fact. I want my choices to have consequences to the ending. I want my saving the Geth to have mattered, evidence that synthetic and organic life can work together.

Do I want a happy ending where the crew lives on to fight again, the Geth and Quarians continue to get along, and the Krogan begin to rebuild their civilization? Absolutely. I also want a completely dreary ending where all is lost and the Reapers win. I want an ending where we win with heavy losses to the galaxy, and many of my friends die in the process. I want an ending where my LI has a Banshee rip her to shreds, and another where she and the crew live on to fight another day.

Choice. That's the driving issue here. Choice, and that it actually matter. This poll reflects that.

[Father_Jerusalem]

Sal86 wrote...

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

Rockworm503 wrote...

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

Rockworm503 wrote...

Father_Jerusalem wrote...



So I answered your question about how the Reapers aren't being neutered in the current ending, and because you can't counter it, you get up on your high horse and ride off.

Got it.

You didn't answer anything
The reapers are here to kill us so other synthetics won't and thats not neutering them?
Their reasoning ruins the mystery of them.
Thats far worse than any possible happy ending possibly could.
Quite honestly you prove time and time again you just tout the most negative aspects of the people who disagree with you and use it against them so you can look all high and mighty.
I can't find my high horse I think yours scared it off.

The Reapers were created to create order among organic races, to make sure that none of them created something that would wipe out ALL life. Over the course of 37 million years, the creator lost control of the creation (or, more horrifically, they didn't) and the Reapers kept gobbling up civilization after civilization... it's like, say you have a Rhoomba. You program it to clean your living room. After a while of doing that, it fritzes out and harvest your cat to make another Rhoomba. 

Their purpose is to harvest technologically advanced species and preserve them in Reaper form before they build a bomb that can destroy EVERYTHING in existence. It's a cosmic banzai tree.

How does knowing that neuter them? I don't.. I don't get it. 

Really?  How hard is that to understand
I feel that posting that Xhibit picture would be a tad redundant at this point.
To save us from our destruction their going to completely annihalate us.  I don't care how you explain it in your head there is NO explaination that can possibly make that not retarded.

No. To save us from destroying ALL LIFE IN THE GALAXY, they will prune us and allow other civilizations to grow. Is it an insane plan? OF COURSE. I never claimed otherwise.

If that's their goal, then why don't they make *any* other efforts towards said goal? Look at FFX. The idea that using tech is wrong is woven right into their society, religion and culture. They can see evidence that people have suffered in the past for using tech. The reapers could put all that in place, and more, considerably slowing the cycle. ie instead of reaping little and often they would have one big reap now and then. Sounds better for the organics and less work/risk of death for the reapers no?

That's what the Citadel was. That was their "one big reap" now and then, but Shepard screwed that plan up in 1. Now it's like "Hey guys, time for the back up plan." "Huh? We have a back up plan?" "Oh... crap."

The Mass Relays and the Citadel are their efforts towards that goal. funneling us in the direction they want us to be funnelled. Without the Relays and the Citadel, would we create synthetic life that was capable of wiping us all out? Who knows! That's why the plan is insane!

[Talhydras]

To OP: Thinking about it, even if all it took was Shep's steely determined gaze to vaporize all the reapers at earth, all throughout ME3's main plot up to the final moments have showcased the incredible devastation and tragedy they wreak on the entire galaxy. I can see an argument that a one-sided victory might mark a massive shift in tone, but on the other hand the preceding 20-30 hours have been a retreat from one defeat to another for the player. I don't think the Reapers are neutered in those final moments if they've spent a day of playtime demolishing anyone who stands up to them right in our face and caused the death of several fan favorite characters.

I myself voted for the mega-happy ending - it's certainly the one I'd want to exist to make me strive to achieve the most, but nowhere was there a checkbox for me to indicate just how much I'd want to work for it. I'd want to HELLA work for it! If it took multiple playthroughs, if there were systems in place to make it difficult I'd leap at the opportunity to play ME3 multiple times and experience varying degrees of joyful conclusion and tragic conclusion. If I've been there in the MP winning countless victories against forces ten or a hundred times my size, and Shep in the SP has everybody together in this one crucial moment, and the crucible is maybe reworked to do something else like turn off all the reaper kinetic barriers so they're easy pickings for the fleet's conventional weaponry... I dunno. Maybe have it so that the ground forces reenact the Miracle of Palaven and bomb all the landed Reapers? Or perhaps have some effect like KOTOR's Battle Meditation, where defeating or distracting the directing intelligence of the Reaper fleet turns the whole tide of the battle and all that technological superiority is no longer deployed effectively? At the end of Mass 1 when Sovereign's Saren puppet dies and damages its intelligence, it becomes vulnerable. If somehow Shep is able to do that on board the citadel it doesn't seem particularly unreasonable for a fleet that WOULD lose to then win handily. After Priority: Thessia the reapers have already killed untold billions and forced everyone into a complete retreat - surely that's enough of a bodycount to at least establish that they were a genuine threat to the galaxy?

I voted in part for the mega-happy ending because I could think of a variety of game-changing things the Crucible could do that weren't wack. The Reapers, as you say, have been demolishing the forces of the galaxy time and time again in part because as sovereign states reaper artifacts dictate the course of the young races' technological development and thus allows the reapers to have counters to any weapon already prepared. For all the cycles they've reaped, even without Shep's intervention this cycle is special in two ways. One, the Protheans sabotaged the keepers and the citadel as was stated in ME1, and two the Crucible has been deployed. We can reasonably conclude that neither of those things have ever happened before in any cycle, and if we assign reasonable effects to both of those it can logically negate or reduce the immense Reaper technological and strategic advantage to a point where a conventional victory is at least conceivable. Sure, all throughout SP we're told that facing them conventionally isn't going to work, but the people telling us that don't have any idea how the Crucible works or exactly what effect it might have that could shift the balance of power: only that it will shift the balance of power.

I guess thinking about how I responded to that one question and why I would defend that answer if it seems so childish... there's a lot of classics out there that end fairly close to what the "mega happy ending" was stated to entail. Lord of the Rings, the first Star Wars trilogy, the Princess Bride... Death and sacrifice and suffering are realistic but are not mandatory to a plausible story. It's misguided to think tragedy is required to conclude Mass Effect, just as ridiculous as it is to think saccharine is required. I couldn't vote for a spectrum, so placing my vote at the opposite (joyful) end from the existing one (groinpunch) is the closest I could come to demanding the spectrum I want. I dunno - does that make sense? Or am I still an emotionally stunted infant? Serious question.

Thanks for reading

[Father_Jerusalem]

musicaleCA wrote...

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

People want an ending where the
Normandy flies around, telling the fleet "Hang on bros, we got this" and
one shots every Reaper in existence with their ZOMGLASER. Everybody
then lives happily ever after. With cake.

Please cite a credible source for this assertion. I have seen no one here on BSN demanding such a wholly absurd ending.

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

The Reapers were created to create order among organic races, to make sure that none of them created something that would wipe out ALL life. Over the course of 37 million years, the creator lost control of the creation (or, more horrifically, they didn't) and the Reapers kept gobbling up civilization after civilization... it's like, say you have a Rhoomba. You program it to clean your living room. After a while of doing that, it fritzes out and harvest your cat to make another Rhoomba. 

Their purpose is to harvest technologically advanced species and preserve them in Reaper form before they build a bomb that can destroy EVERYTHING in existence. It's a cosmic banzai tree.

How does knowing that neuter them? I don't.. I don't get it. 

It's circular logic. It's entirely fallacious. Anyone with even a modicum of education in philosophy can see that. I create synthetics to destroy organics so they won't create synthetics that destroy organics. This in a universe with synthetics that strongly proclaim, as Legion did in ME2, that "all sentient life should self-determinate". The Geth are living proof that these synthetic life forms value other sentient life, perhaps even more so, than organics.

By the logic use by the StarChild, the Reapers should be harvesting the Geth to prevent organics from wiping out the Geth. It's utterly insane, and impossible for a rational mind to understand because it's simply not rational. The only reason the Geth attacked anyone was either in self defence, or because the Reapers forced them to.

In your example, the logical course of action is not to destroy the Rhoomba's creators. It's to come in and clear-out all the evil Rhoombas bent on the destruction of all cats. It's not like the Reapers would be incapable of this. The Reapers would probably even be capable of simply re-writing those synthetics' code so that they are no longer bent on destroying organic life and instead see the wisdom in allowing other species to self-determinate. In fact, we know they have such an ability, as it was clearly spelt-out in Legion's loyalty mission in ME2.

(Tread carefully! Spoilers may well be ahead! I've tried to minimize them. Read at your own peril!)







(No, really. Stop reading now. Thar be dragons...er...spoilers in dem der waters!)


Finally, I honestly don't think the majority of people who have taken issue with the endings in their current state are after a shoehorned "sunshine and kittens" end. Speaking for myself, I am after an ending that makes sense. Several in fact. I want my choices to have consequences to the ending. I want my saving the Geth to have mattered, evidence that synthetic and organic life can work together.

Do I want a happy ending where the crew lives on to fight again, the Geth and Quarians continue to get along, and the Krogan begin to rebuild their civilization? Absolutely. I also want a completely dreary ending where all is lost and the Reapers win. I want an ending where we win with heavy losses to the galaxy, and many of my friends die in the process. I want an ending where my LI has a Banshee rip her to shreds, and another where she and the crew live on to fight another day.

Choice. That's the driving issue here. Choice, and that it actually matter. This poll reflects that.

But the Reapers would have to WANT to stop murdering people, and after 37 million years... I'm pretty sure they've gotten past any ethical quandries about whether or not it's okay to go a-murdering. 

Again, I point out that this entire plan is INSANE. But within the framework of the story, it makes the most sense.

[Father_Jerusalem]

Rockworm503 wrote...

Great so basically we're nothing more than space hedges.
Cut us so the technology THEY provide us wont destroy us.
......
Now it sounds even more retarded.

Then I can't help you. Their entire purpose is spelled out as being directly that in the framework of the story. If you don't like it, that's a personal decision and I won't argue it, becuase I can't. I'm not going to try and tell you what to like.

I'm just telling you that it's there, in the story.

[musicaleCA]

Eddy01741 wrote...

As if it weren't obvious enough that the majority of ending complainers want the sunshine and rainbows walking off into the sunset with LI ending....


But really, it's pretty damn obvious that's what they want. I personally disagree, but hell if they're the majority I guess I can't say their opinion is straight up wrong.

*snip*

In ending. If the majority wants a rainbow unicorn ending then Bioware would definitely do good (relative to general fan happiness and profit) to give it to them. I mean it is their game so we'll see if they try and let the player end the game however he/she likes, or whether they will write their own ending as if it were a novel/film/non-RPG-game.

I did read the whole post. In fact, I totally agree with you. We should get our happy ending. We should also get our nasty, oh god everyone's dead ending, and the many shades of grey in between.

Time and again before release the devs stated, very clearly, that this would be the case. The endings would be wildly divergent, and reflect the choices made by players along the way through the entire series. I want a happy end, and I want you to have your dramatic ending and tragic hero death. The beauty of ME as a series was that we always had that choice, options to choose our own canon. The biggest issue with these endings is not that there's no happy end, it's that there's no choice to have the ending one wants, regardless if that's happy, sad, total disaster and everyone dies, or hopeful and uplifting.

I want you to have your choice, and me to have mine. As it stands, neither of us has this.

Modifié par musicaleCA, 20 mars 2012 - 08:56 .

[Lunar Savage]

Actually, on the matter of happy vs. unhappy ending. It's not unreasonable to expect that both types of endings be obtainable in a game where your choices are supposed to matter. We were promised a wide variety of endings. And that wasn't delivered. Including the possibility of a happy ending, well...there's nothing wrong with that.

Modifié par Lunar Savage, 20 mars 2012 - 09:14 .

[ArthurBDD]

I don't think a happy ending is such an outrageous thing to want. The fact is, Mass Effect is and always has been a space opera adventure story. It's often a more thoughtful example of the genre than is typical and it updates the genre's ideas a lot, but at the end of the day it's very much in the tradition set by Star Trek and Babylon 5. And whilst Babylon 5's ending was ultimately bittersweet (after a couple of decades of downtime...), that one did at least have its protagonist win out against even more impossible odds than the ones Shepard faces in ME3 and managing to spend at least some time living in comfort with their LI.

There's a good article assessing ME3 from a screenwriter's POV which was posted over in the spoilers forum which makes a decent argument that the current ending breaks a whole bunch of rules in that regard. Now, there's nothing necessarily wrong with breaking rules like that... provided that you can convince the audience that it was worth doing so and going against their expectations. I think it's clear from the backlash that this isn't what's happened here.

That said, I do agree that the "mega happy ending" in that one poll question had the odds stacked in its favour by specifying that there was "no starchild" in it - whether or not the starchild is present needn't have anything to do with how happy the ending is. And as the screenwriter analysis mentions, the inclusion of the starchild was always going to be something people objected to because introducing a brand new and unhinted-at character right at the end of the story is pretty shoddy.

Personally, I just hope some sort of fix is applied to the ending. I trust Bioware to be able to cook up something which meets people's concerns after the lengths they've gone to to listen to everyone's feedback. And once they do, I'll feel able to buy and play ME3. Until then, I really don't want to subject my Shepard to the ending in its current state. It'd feel like drowning my firstborn.

[musicaleCA]

Lunar Savage wrote...

Actually, on the matter of happy vs. unhappy ending. It's not unreasonable to expect that both types of endings be obtainable in a game where your choices are supposed to matter. We were promised a wide variety of endings. And that wasn't delivered. Including the possibility of a happy ending, well...there's nothing wrong with that.

Fixed. Otherwise, +1 internetz

Modifié par musicaleCA, 20 mars 2012 - 09:04 .

[Swordfishtrombone]

*spoilers ahead*






I'm one of the minority in that poll that voted "disagree" on the whole "sheppard should survive and reunite...." question. I don't have a problem with Shepard dying in the end, as long as the cause he is dying for makes sense, and there's a reasonable expectation that his death serves the purpose of defeating the reapers.

The problem with the end is that Shepard has no reason to think that the "starchild" is real, especially given that he looks like the kid in his dreams. This is a clue that at least whatever is in the citadel has gotten into Sheppard's head, fished the image of the child from his memory, and taken the appearance of this child. If that has happened, then Shepard must question himself as to whether it is likely that any of what he is seeing is real, and whether the "starchild" aparition is just deceiving him.

As to how the reapers are defeated, I would have liked to see an ending where the use of the crucible deals a cripling blow to some crucial aspect of reaper technology, making them highly vulnerable to conventional weapons that they were previously just shrugging off.

Something like this would be better than a magic-bullet that just destroys them all leaving everything else intact, or the "synthesis" solution which is soooo magic, that it doesn't really belong to a SciFi universe.

The catalyst doing nothing, and the fleets defeating the reapers conventionally would be even sillier than anything seen in the endings now, and I don't get the people who voted for that. EVERYTHING in the game up to the end has conclusively shown that no military forces, including all military forces combined, in the universe, has a snowball's chance in hell of defeating the reapers conventionally. They aren't just a little bit more powerful, they are "tanks against muskets" powerful.

[Blarty]

BiancoAngelo7 wrote...

xsdob wrote...

So, a poll has finally been made that answers the questions about what fans are really looking for in their ending DLC, an important topic if bioware is going to get ti right.

Its started by this guy's thread here http://social.biowar.../index/10133310 But since most of you here can't acess that part of the forum I'm giving you guys the link to the polls here.

http://social.biowar...=dd&search=&p=2

Remeber, you have to press the previous tag to go forward in the thread.

This is the part where I talk about the results, so don't read it if you want to find out for yourself.

So remeber how when we first came out for the endings, people called us spoiled and whinners, and claimed that we only complained because it wasn't exactly what the fans wanted, and how people who wanted to change the endings only wanted a super happy unicorn and cupcakes ending with sugar and sunshine for all.

What a bunch of elitist pricks, what a bunch of goons for the big bad corporation that is EA, what a bunch of out of touch jerks who don't know the first thing about us. I mean, no one here has ever wanted a perfect happy ending with sprikles on top, we just wanted an ending that didn't ruin the cannon or universe of mass effect. All we ever wanted was a chance to have more options, to to find out the answers to more questions, right?

Wrong...Those elitest, out of touch, disconnected-from-the-fanbase bashers hit the nail dead on the head.

What the hell are you talking about? Did you even look at your own polls or what you wrote? You have all the evidence you need not only in these unofficial polls that took only a few thousand (compared to the tens of thousands of other polls) people into account but you somehow come to the opposite conclusion of all the polls, including these?

Fail thread is fail.

This poll took only a few thousand, compared to the tens of thousands taken in other polls, compared to the millions of units shipped and sold, all whilst you have the temerity to say that the number of units sold is irrelevant compared to the 'tens of thousands polls' of actual fans.

The polls themselves aren't asking the same questions - the one that the OP is referring to is talking about much more specific outcomes than the 'derp ending sucks' poll that has tens of thousands of votes on it.

I should start a poll 'Torch or Pitchfork - which one to hold when marching on Bioware's gates?'

Modifié par Blarty, 20 mars 2012 - 09:11 .

[Sal86]

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

Sal86 wrote...

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

Rockworm503 wrote...

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

Rockworm503 wrote...

Father_Jerusalem wrote...



So I answered your question about how the Reapers aren't being neutered in the current ending, and because you can't counter it, you get up on your high horse and ride off.

Got it.

You didn't answer anything
The reapers are here to kill us so other synthetics won't and thats not neutering them?
Their reasoning ruins the mystery of them.
Thats far worse than any possible happy ending possibly could.
Quite honestly you prove time and time again you just tout the most negative aspects of the people who disagree with you and use it against them so you can look all high and mighty.
I can't find my high horse I think yours scared it off.

The Reapers were created to create order among organic races, to make sure that none of them created something that would wipe out ALL life. Over the course of 37 million years, the creator lost control of the creation (or, more horrifically, they didn't) and the Reapers kept gobbling up civilization after civilization... it's like, say you have a Rhoomba. You program it to clean your living room. After a while of doing that, it fritzes out and harvest your cat to make another Rhoomba. 

Their purpose is to harvest technologically advanced species and preserve them in Reaper form before they build a bomb that can destroy EVERYTHING in existence. It's a cosmic banzai tree.

How does knowing that neuter them? I don't.. I don't get it. 

Really?  How hard is that to understand
I feel that posting that Xhibit picture would be a tad redundant at this point.
To save us from our destruction their going to completely annihalate us.  I don't care how you explain it in your head there is NO explaination that can possibly make that not retarded.

No. To save us from destroying ALL LIFE IN THE GALAXY, they will prune us and allow other civilizations to grow. Is it an insane plan? OF COURSE. I never claimed otherwise.

If that's their goal, then why don't they make *any* other efforts towards said goal? Look at FFX. The idea that using tech is wrong is woven right into their society, religion and culture. They can see evidence that people have suffered in the past for using tech. The reapers could put all that in place, and more, considerably slowing the cycle. ie instead of reaping little and often they would have one big reap now and then. Sounds better for the organics and less work/risk of death for the reapers no?

That's what the Citadel was. That was their "one big reap" now and then, but Shepard screwed that plan up in 1. Now it's like "Hey guys, time for the back up plan." "Huh? We have a back up plan?" "Oh... crap."

The Mass Relays and the Citadel are their efforts towards that goal. funneling us in the direction they want us to be funnelled. Without the Relays and the Citadel, would we create synthetic life that was capable of wiping us all out? Who knows! That's why the plan is insane!

When I say 'reaping little and often', I'm considering 50k years to be often. I agree that the reapers should have the cold, calculating logic of machines and to me that means it should be efficient. Giving us the relays and citadel only makes it take *less* time for each civ to create dangerous synthetics, whereas I would assume they would want to have each cycle take as long as possible. I don't see a need for us to be funelled into the citadel, in fact it serves to make us *more* spread out and better equipped to develop those big bad synthetics. In fact the only reason I can see for the relays to exist if you accept this motivation is for the reapers own personal use when it's reap o'clock (in which case just fit them all with IFF). I guess my point is that their plan isn't just INSANE, it's inefficient, and efficiency is what machines are all about. I also agree with all the other reasons for the 'protecting organic life from synthetics' motivation makes no sense, but that's well trodden ground.