274 réponses à ce sujet

[AtreiyaN7]

Lugaidster wrote...
Whoa!  I'm not going to say you're wrong, but there's enough assumptions in that post to make an asari question her gender, if that's even possible. One has to really work hard at it to believe what you said is possible.

But again, who am I to question it.

So what if someone has to work at it? I'm perfectly capable of using my imagination and coming up with possibilities. Do you see Joker around to interview about his feelings and motivations? Ring him up for me if you have his number, and we'll check with him on that. One can only makes guesses about his motivations and what happened per the poster's request that one find some sort of justification for his actions.

Modifié par AtreiyaN7, 20 mars 2012 - 08:30 .

[Valo_Soren]

Lugaidster wrote...But there's enough assumptions in that post to make an asari question her gender, if that's even possible.

This made me Laugh out loud.

[Lunaluxlepus]

HenchxNarf has been trolling since DA2, deriding so many people who don't agree as 'immature', while failing to provide any good persuasive argument. When presented with logical, reasonable, and persuasive argument, she just stops replying and moves onto other thread to continue trolling.

Such a shameless character, I might add.

[Valo_Soren]

Lunaluxlepus wrote...

HenchxNarf has been trolling since DA2, deriding so many people who don't agree as 'immature', while failing to provide any good persuasive argument. When presented with logical, reasonable, and persuasive argument, she just stops replying and moves onto other thread to continue trolling.

Such a shameless character, I might add.

Is that a reason to try and stir a pot though? I've only seen her on the defensive throughout this thread and haven't seen her attack anyone...so...I don't get what you're trying to say here.

[Joccaren]

Eh. I don't like the ending, but that is because I was misled.
My choices do not matter (EMS BS, don't bring that up. I can do a completely opposite playthrough to my primary one and still get the exact same ending. My choices meant nothing), unlike they were supposed to.
There was an easily definable Ending A, Ending B and Ending C, with slight variations to each,
NOTHING was concluded.
There is no 'Reapers win' ending.

The whole BS that the ending is I can somewhat live with. It is not what I was promised though, and thus I don't like them. Fix the issues, and I'll be happy.

[Lugaidster]

AtreiyaN7 wrote...

Lugaidster wrote...
Whoa!  I'm not going to say you're wrong, but there's enough assumptions in that post to make an asari question her gender, if that's even possible. One has to really work hard at it to believe what you said is possible.

But again, who am I to question it.

So what if someone has to work at it? I'm perfectly capable of using my imagination and coming up with possibilities. Do you see Joker around to interview about his feelings and motivations? Ring him up for me if you have his number, and we'll check with him on that. One can only makes guesses about his motivations and what happened per the poster's request that one find some sort of justification for his actions.

No need to get all defensive about it.  I'm not saying you're wrong or that we have a way to be sure. Just saying that there's a lot of speculation involved to come up with that.

I'm not much of a fan of speculation, but as I said, who am I to question it... Jeez...

[Darksaber2]

I would have been fine with the endings if they had bothered to flesh out the "okay, here's what JUST happened, but what happened after that?" Section. Honestly, you know what got me the most here? I read a twitter feed with a debate between a couple of people and a bioware rep. Was confused myself on how the destruction of every inhabited system in the galaxy was something you end on, until I read someone post in a quite matter of fact tone as to how the Arrival incident was different than this. Well that's just fine and dandy, I'm so glad we have you to tell us these things, you know, rather than... Oh, I dunno. The game we just played?

The biggest problem here is this isn't something from Alfred hitchcock where the subtext made the story, and it's a "smart" ending. This is literally an ***-pull. There exists a point where the lack of information makes for a good story and a thought provoking ending, and where you literally just pulled a Sopranos on us. You built up the story, pushed us to the end, had us out doing what whatever we chose to do best, and right when it all built up to THE critical moment where all the information was about to fall in our laps, you cut to black.

A fair few probably want an ending like Penny Arcade so snarkily derided us about, but all I wanted was a few explanations. Take the example above. I should never have to find THAT kind of information out from a link to a Twitter feed. So, yeah, thanks for that?

- Hold the line.

[Adanu]

YeGodz wrote...

Misled in what sense? I keep seeing that choice didn't matter, but it was all over the place. The entire game was one call-back and arc resolution after another.

Or does it only count if it happens in the last 5 minutes of the game? Because if that's the case, then ME 1&2 didn't have choice, either. Well, 1 didn't. 2 had a choice of two colors for the explosion, rather than 3.

YOu can keep saying that, but they won't listen. They wanted a specific kind of 'choices matter' for the ending. The one that got was for the journey, not the end. They're pissed at that.

As it is, this thread is a perfect example of how whiny the dislikers have become on this forum.

[LilyasAvalon]

I personally envy anyone who are just happy with the endings, seriously, 6 years of my life was flushed down the toilet at those endings. I did all that work to watch 6 variations of the same ending.

Bioware's already proven they can have mulitple endings and outcomes, like they did in DA:O. There's NO excuse for what they did.

[HenchxNarf]

Lunaluxlepus wrote...

HenchxNarf has been trolling since DA2, deriding so many people who don't agree as 'immature', while failing to provide any good persuasive argument. When presented with logical, reasonable, and persuasive argument, she just stops replying and moves onto other thread to continue trolling.

Such a shameless character, I might add.

You have quite a lot of time on your hands, don't you? I've yet to threaten, insult, or otherwise deride anything. I've been civil to those civil to me, and really, what concern is it of yours? Do you have some stake in what I say or do? Apparently you must if you've seen anything from me that long ago, since I haven't been in that section of the boards in over a year.

I stop replying because I don't want to stoop to the level of those who can't see past their own voices and see that others have different opinions, which is fine.

[DJStarstryker]

Lack of choice doesn't bother me. I "grew up" (in the playing RPG sense) on JRPGs. They give little, if any, story choice. I think that's why I'm bothered less by the ending than most people.

The only thing that bothers me about the ending, ultimately, it feels... weird. The whole star child thing doesn't make much sense to me. It doesn't bother me enough to join the anti-ending camp though.

[HenchxNarf]

DJStarstryker wrote...

Lack of choice doesn't bother me. I "grew up" (in the playing RPG sense) on JRPGs. They give little, if any, story choice. I think that's why I'm bothered less by the ending than most people.

The only thing that bothers me about the ending, ultimately, it feels... weird. The whole star child thing doesn't make much sense to me. It doesn't bother me enough to join the anti-ending camp though.

Oh sweet Jesus, jrpgs lol Persona 3, while had lots of coices, you just couldn't do everything to get what you needed before it expired.

[AtreiyaN7]

Lugaidster wrote...

No need to get all defensive about it.  I'm not saying you're wrong or that we have a way to be sure. Just saying that there's a lot of speculation involved to come up with that.

I'm not much of a fan of speculation, but as I said, who am I to question it... Jeez...

And I wasn't being defensive - just pointing out with a certain amount of snark that one can't do anything but speculate and make suppositions when someone demands that someone else answer them in such a situation.

[G3n0c1de]

 To the people who don't feel misled, read this thread: social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/10056886/1

People feel misled because BioWare promised us so many fantastic things.  Wildly different endings.  Our choices actually mattering.  We were to get closure.  Questions would be answered.  They did not deliver.

[SoulDire]

HenchxNarf wrote...

Why would I feel misled? I got exactly what Bioware offered me with this game. I feel I got exactly what they told us we would get. I never expected a happy ending, like some people. And I'm glad it ended the way it did. It's the end of Shepard's story. There is hope for the galaxy, but in the end, a true hero like Shepard would give his life to save them all. Why would I want to spoil that with a fairytale ending?

Indeed, you are satisfied with the ending. If a dlc is released where I have the option of a happy ending then I'll download it happily. You got the ending you thought appropriate, a lot of us didn't. That's why I hope they keep these endings intact and the dlc only expands them with new choices.

Modifié par SoulDire, 20 mars 2012 - 09:14 .

[Vaerkone]

TLDR;

-I don’t agree with Indoc theory
-I believe that the last 15 minutes are played out as if we are Shepard, and not players playing as Shepard.
-Yes, English is not my native language.

The ending left me utterly speechless and very confused, and at first I thought it was fine if it was one of the many endings we were promised. But I have come to accept the ending and now have a positive "meh" feeling about it.

I don't really know where I stand, I guess I have one foot in each camp; I am fine with the ending my Shepard got, but I would not mind a Closure DLC. I want to know what happened after, what happened to my squad mates and the rest of the galaxy, I want to know more about the Reapers and the Catalyst, more varied endings depending on choices made throughout the series, have choices matter. I don't agree with the indoctrination theory, simply not my flavour. I instead interpretate the ending for what it is (in my opinion):

My Theory:

Before getting to the Citadel:

Shepard was seriously injured when Harbinger blasted him, this is evident not only on the damage you can see on his armor, but also on the way he walks and bruises on his body - Shepard took a massive hit. The screen is all blurry and Shepard can't aim straight, my interpretation is that he got a concussion. Furthermore, mr. Marauder Shields shot Shepard and injured him. He now has a bullet wound! This is the first time we get to see Shepard this injured, and for all the badass things he have done through the series -swatting armies of Geth, Reapers and Mercs like flies-, we have never seen him physically injured this badly. I think that Shepard at this point is in shock and not fully aware of what is going on. Matter of fact is that we do not know how Shepard reacts to a situation or to pressure in his current state.

At the Catalyst:

This takes us to his conversation with the Catalyst. A lot of people say that their Shepard would never accept any of these three choices.  But he did. It is in the game. 

-Why did Shepard simply accept these three choices?

My interpretation of Shepard’s behavior is that he is simply in no state to argue, the guy have just been barbequed by Harbinger and probably suffered a serious concussion (bleeding from the mouth, nose and ears if I recall it right), he has a bullet wound, shot his friend Andersson (granted, not by choice but still), and had a long nice conversation with TIM: all the while he has been suffering from serious blood lost.



So when he finally meets the Catalyst, he is in no shape or condition to argue, he is still in shock and probably only half aware of what is going on (notice that he struggles to keep his eyes open). Notice that his response to the Catalysts options is basicly "but will the reapers die/leave?", He is too tired and shocked to argue, he just want the basic information of the choices: How will it affect the Reapers.

 -The three choices through Shepard’s eyes.
Another thing I would like to say, is that throughout the series, the player has been Shepard, our choices have been his choices, but we have been able to meta-game; We know for a fact that the upper right dialogue choice will be Paragon, and the lower choices will be Renegade, we have been told by developers that decisions in previous games will affect the last game, we have been able to go on websites to find out what the best course of action is in dialogues etc. We can use guides! But Shepard (as a person) did not have this ability.

I interpret the last 15 minutes as Shepard’s choices, not ours. Why? Because the choices we are given are not clear on whether they are good or bad, we have no red or blue color that will tell us what will be the good or bad, even the choices themselves don’t have their right color (destroy is red, control is blue). We are seeing the choices through Shepards eyes, he have never known what the “right/Paragon” answer is. Throughout the series, the player is the one that have seen what choice is paragon/renegade, not Shepard.

He had three bad and ****ty choices to choose from, we as players are clear on what we want to choose (even if we do not like the choices we are given), but for Shepard, they are all grey answers, there are no right or wrong  for him, he can’t go on youtube and see how the three endings play out, and then go back to the Citadel and say “oh well I will survive if I take the red choice so I’ll just go with that”, but as players, we can do this if we want to. Shepard can’t meta-game, so what is he supposed to ask a million years old AI, at the end of his own life?

I take the ending for what it is, we get to see Shepard do the single most important decision in the history of this Cycle; And we get to see him do it at his utter worst.

/flamesuit on.

Modifié par Faridarsabra, 20 mars 2012 - 09:35 .

[HenchxNarf]

Faridarsabra wrote...

TLDR;

-I don’t agree with Indoc theory
-I believe that the last 15 minutes are played
out as if we are Shepard, and not players playing as Shepard.Yes,
-English is not my native language.





 

The ending left me utterly speechless and very confused, and at first I
thought it was fine if it was one of the
many endings we were promised. But I have come to accept the ending and now have a positive "meh" feeling about it.



I don't really know where I stand, I guess I have
one foot in each camp; I am fine with the ending my Shepard got, but I would
not mind a Closure DLC. I want to know what happened after, what happened to my
squad mates and the rest of the galaxy, I want to know more about the Reapers
and the Catalyst, more varied endings depending on choices made throughout the
series, have choices matter.
I don't agree with the indoctrination theory,
simply not my flavour. I instead interpretate
the ending for what it is (in my opinion):





My Theory:




Before getting to the Citadel:

Shepard was seriously injured when Harbinger
blasted him, this is evident not only on the damage you can see on his armor,
but also on the way he walks and bruises on his body - Shepard took a massive hit. The screen is all
blurry and Shepard can't aim straight, my interpretation is that he got a
concussion. Furthermore, mr. Marauder Shields shot Shepard and injured him.
He now has a bullet wound! This is the first
time we get to see Shepard this injured, and for all the badass things he have
done through the series -swatting armies of Geth, Reapers and Mercs like
flies-, we have never seen him physically injured this badly. I think that
Shepard at this point is in shock and not fully aware of what is going on. Matter of
fact is that we do not know how Shepard reacts to a situation or to pressure in
his current state.





At the Catalyst:

This takes us to his conversation with the
Catalyst. A lot of people say that their Shepard would never accept any of
these three choices.  But he did. It is in the game. 





-Why did Shepard simply accept these three choices?

My interpretation of Shepard’s behavior is that he
is simply in no state to argue, the guy have just been barbequed by Harbinger
and probably suffered a serious concussion (bleeding from the mouth, nose and
ears if I recall it right), he has a bullet wound, shot his friend Andersson
(granted, not by choice but still), and had a long nice conversation with TIM:
all the while he has been suffering
from serious blood lost.



So when he finally meets the Catalyst, he is in no
shape or condition to argue, he is still in shock and probably only half
aware of what is going on (notice that he struggles to keep his eyes open).
Notice that his response to the Catalysts options is basicly "but will the
reapers die/leave?", He is too tired and shocked to argue, he just want
the basic information of the choices: How will it affect the Reapers.

 

-The three choices through Shepard’s eyes.
Another thing I would like to say, is that throughout the series, the
player has been Shepard, our choices
have been his choices, but we have
been able to meta-game; We know for
a fact that the upper right dialogue choice will be Paragon, and the lower
choices will be Renegade, we have been told by developers that decisions in
previous games will affect the last game, we have been able to go on websites
to find out what the best course of action is in dialogues etc. We can use guides! But Shepard (as
a person) did not have this ability.



I interpret the last 15 minutes as Shepard’s choices, not ours. Why?
Because the choices we are given are not clear on whether they are good or bad,
we have no red or blue color that will tell us what will be the good or bad,
even the choices themselves don’t have their right color (destroy is red,
control is blue). We are seeing the
choices through Shepards eyes, he have never known what the “right/Paragon”
answer is. Throughout the series, the player is the one that have seen what
choice is paragon/renegade, not Shepard.

He had three bad and ****ty choices to choose from, we as players are clear
on what we want to choose (even if we do not like the choices we are given),
but for Shepard, they are all grey answers, there are no right or wrong  for him, he can’t go on youtube and see how the
three endings play out, and then go back to the Citadel and say “oh well I will survive if I take the red
choice so I’ll just go with that”, but as players, we can do this if we want to. Shepard can’t
meta-game, so what is he supposed to ask a million years old AI, at the end of his own life?

I take the ending for what it is, we get to see Shepard do the single
most important decision in the history of this Cycle; And we get to see him do
it at his utter worst.

/flamesuit on.

Well said!

[Manton-X2]

I'm not sure why people are spending their time, on either side, trying to convince the other side that they are wrong. Each person feels strongly, and rightly so, about their reaction to the ending. And each person is right, for themselves.

My question for the Pro-Ending people has nothing to do with content or how they feel, etc. What I want to know is this. If, by your admission, you just so happened to get the perfect ending for you - the ending that you love and enjoyed - why are you so opposed to the rest of us getting an ending that we can love and find perfect?

You are able to ignore the things that the rest of find so grating (plot holes, lack of choices that effect the game in any meaningful way, lazy writing, poor logic, etc.) and I'm happy for you. You're not sitting there with a game you thought you'd love and play over and over again that you really don't want to play through again.

Why are you so opposed to the rest of us having that closure and sense of amazement that we know could be there? How would it ruin it for you? How would a patch that you'd have to choose to download that would add what we consider real endings ruin the game for you? That's what I don't understand.

[Dridengx]

@Faridarsabra, interesting way of looking at it, nicely done.

[Dridengx]

Manton-X2 wrote...

I'm not sure why people are spending their time, on either side, trying to convince the other side that they are wrong. 

It may appear so, but it's not. What is really happening is. The angry fans want to ruin Bioware or want to whine until they get their way thus, in the process hurting the forums for those who enjoy being here, or those who liked the ending. So, in return, some of those who liked the ending are either being trolled or appear as trolls for wanting their boards to be civil, and wanting this, feel they have to make the angry fans stop complaining.

Modifié par Dridengx, 20 mars 2012 - 09:19 .

[LilyasAvalon]

DJStarstryker wrote...
The only thing that bothers me about the ending, ultimately, it feels... weird. The whole star child thing doesn't make much sense to me. It doesn't bother me enough to join the anti-ending camp though.

To be perfectly honest, I would've been content with the endings if they'd left that whole ****load out. Just let us use the Cruicible like the giant gun we all thought it was and leave it at that.

It still would've been disappointing in comparison to DA:O, but at least then I could headcanon the rest and satisfy myself.

Modifié par LilyasAvalon, 20 mars 2012 - 09:21 .

[Vaerkone]

 @Dridengx and HenchxNarf:

Thanks!

I wrote the text in word (I knew it was going to be a long post, and browsers seem to have a thing for crashing when writing long posts), I edited the text a little to make it a bit easier to read.

[HenchxNarf]

Faridarsabra wrote...

 @Dridengx and HenchxNarf:

Thanks!

I wrote the text in word (I knew it was going to be a long post, and browsers seem to have a thing for crashing when writing long posts), I edited the text a little to make it a bit easier to read.

That's usually what I do, too. The formatting sucks sometimes when you copy/paste.

And you're very welcome.

[SoulDire]

Manton-X2 wrote...

I'm not sure why people are spending their time, on either side, trying to convince the other side that they are wrong. Each person feels strongly, and rightly so, about their reaction to the ending. And each person is right, for themselves.

My question for the Pro-Ending people has nothing to do with content or how they feel, etc. What I want to know is this. If, by your admission, you just so happened to get the perfect ending for you - the ending that you love and enjoyed - why are you so opposed to the rest of us getting an ending that we can love and find perfect?

You are able to ignore the things that the rest of find so grating (plot holes, lack of choices that effect the game in any meaningful way, lazy writing, poor logic, etc.) and I'm happy for you. You're not sitting there with a game you thought you'd love and play over and over again that you really don't want to play through again.

Why are you so opposed to the rest of us having that closure and sense of amazement that we know could be there? How would it ruin it for you? How would a patch that you'd have to choose to download that would add what we consider real endings ruin the game for you? That's what I don't understand.

Couldn't agree more. The game is built on choice. The choice to download optional ending dlc would be great for those of us wanting an ending we are satisfied with, and great for the others who like th endings as is. I would gladly pay for such dlc.

[DarkSpiral]

Spectre_Shepard wrote...

YeGodz wrote...

Misled in what sense? I keep seeing that choice didn't matter, but it was all over the place. The entire game was one call-back and arc resolution after another.

Or does it only count if it happens in the last 5 minutes of the game? Because if that's the case, then ME 1&2 didn't have choice, either. Well, 1 didn't. 2 had a choice of two colors for the explosion, rather than 3.

the choice in ME2 was sprad out over the final mission. who to send where and will they survive. the effects were actually pretty profound on a personal level.

in ME3, theres only 1 instance of choice at the conclusion, and its barely a real choice at all.

All the choices from the previosu two games had been wrapped up at that point.  The events that occured in the end didn't bother me (much), but the utter lack of resolution did.

Then again, I don't actually consider myself pro-ending, for that very reason.  If you want to toss a loop in to the lore by introducing a new...er...character (I suppose the word more or less fits) you can't just stop, and not tell us about the rest of the people we've grown to love, who may or may not be dead/stranded/dealing with new, altered DNA.