274 réponses à ce sujet

[AtreiyaN7]

Valo_Soren wrote...

Jaysh wrote...

The people who "love" the endings are those who have only played ME3 or those who like depressing endings.

This is a generalization and an assumption and is uncalled for, I have 7 shepard saves on xbox, i've played the first two many times and I don't find the ending depressing in the slightest, I find it amazingly provacative, comments like this need to stop.

^ This. While I'm a fan with around 200 hours investsed in the series, I still liked the Synthesis ending I chose because of the idea behind it. I'd always taken note of the changing role of the geth and my Shepard's evolving view about synthetics throughout the series. At first, I only saw them as enemies thanks to the heretic geth and the Reapers. In ME2, I saw that the issue was more complex than I'd believed with Legion and the orthodox geth - not to mention EDI's unshackling and Shepard dealing with his/her resurrection through technology. In ME3, I saw that AIs could evolve to become more like us - even to admire us for the attributes that make us human.

It really hit me that I had the opportunity to make a change that would, in my eyes, elevate us all through Synthesis and that we could still retain our inviduality. I approached the ending from a more philosophical standpoint, finding it to be very meaningful - and there's nothing wrong with that, just like there's nothing wrong wtih disliking the endings due to the lack of conventional closure, etc. I wasn't unaware of the plot holes either - I just didn't view them as ruining that moment for me or the sacrifice that I was making.

And yes, I even found it hopeful with the Normandy crash and the coda at the end because (even taking the issues with the Normandy crash into account), it proved to me that the galaxy survived and that people lived on. Now then, maybe we could stop with the ridiculous comments about our intellect and taste, along with the insinuations that we can't possibly be long-term fans if we liked the ending(s). I've even said that alternative endings can't hurt because the people who are upset over the endings can get what they need. At this point, though, I really feel very little goodwill towards the "movement" as a whole.

Modifié par AtreiyaN7, 20 mars 2012 - 06:05 .

[HenchxNarf]

sistersafetypin wrote...



I agree. But judging a movement by the actions of one is silly imho. It's as bad as judging the whole of the Occupy movement on one person.

But when a large group acts the way he does in your group, it looks bad. And you cannot possibly deny that there is not a very large chunk in your movement that acts this way.

[Zanallen]

No, not at all.

[MaynPayn]

Jagri wrote...

Here is a question I would have for people who support the ending.

Do you not regret not having a chance to confront Harbinger for one last time? I feel rather cheated I didn't get to at least spit on him for all the trouble he gave us in ME2.

I would have felt cheated if I had just finished the mother of all fights just to have my struggel be diminished by my last choice, but some interaction would be nice though.

[SpiderFan1217]

Spectre_Shepard wrote...

Please read first:

For the record, I'm not angry with any of you, nor do I think you're stupid or arrogant or whatever for liking the ending. That's cool, I happen to feel otherwise.

Now, I can get how someone who just plays ME3, and has ZERO prior knowledge of the Mass Effect universe might think these endings are OK. I mean, they probably aren't aware of how Mass Effect has been built on player choice since day 1, and also probably haven't kept up with all the developer comments about how ME3 was supposed to conclude.

But what about all you guys who ARE big Mass Effect fans, and know how these games are designed and what Bioware has said? I mean, what's your perspective? It seems clear to me that Bioware has, at the very least, misled us in some capacity as to how Mass Effect would conclude. I personally feel like I've been lied to.

So how is it that you guys feel differently? Why do you feel like justice has been done to Commander Shepard with these endings?

Please keep it civil, no flaming on either side, I really want to get some perspective here. 

I've been playing since 2007. I've got about 300 plus hours playing ME games, and I like the endings. To answer your question: No, I do not feel that I was lied to. My decions did effect the game. I changed that whole galaxy in multiple ways. Quarian/Geth peace, dead Reapers, Humanity has Council Seat, Rachni are are friends now, Krogans are cured of the Genophage. I did effect the ending. In my opinion, what people who don't like the endings fail to realise is: the last choice isn't the end. The ending is how the universe is left after Shep defeats the Reapers. People need to stop being angry because they didn't get different cutscenes.

I do understand that this is not the opinion of other, and in no way am I trying to force my opinion on others. They are intitled to those opinions. Just as I am intitled to mine.

[Jaysh]

HenchxNarf wrote...

Jaysh wrote...

Jaysh wrote...

HenchxNarf wrote...

Jaysh wrote...

HenchxNarf wrote...

Jaysh wrote...

The people who "love" the endings are those who have only played ME3 or those who like depressing endings.

Wrong and arrogant to boot.

I have played all three ME games and pretty much all games Bioware put out. So your logic is flawed. I love the ending, and I do like depressing endings if the game allows.

But it's people like you who make this movement look immature and uneducated.

Really? I don't see how anyone could be satisfied with the endings who have invested their time with the first two installments. I'm glad you like the ending though, but for the rest of us I have to say "Keep Holding The Line!" 

Yeah, you keep holding that line by being arrogant and uninformed.

I have six ME2 saves on PS3, two on 360, and two ME1 saves on 360, and now four saves on ME3.

I see the whole picture when it comes to the franchise. Don't make generalizations about people unless you have facts to back them up. It makes you look bad, which makes your movement look bad.

I don't think it makes our movement look bad in the slightest. I'm only one member out of what is almost 50,000. I doubt I am making our movement look bad. 

The actions of one can speak louder than many.

Your going to judge the entire movement because of me? *laughs*

[HenchxNarf]

AtreiyaN7 wrote...

Valo_Soren wrote...

Jaysh wrote...

The people who "love" the endings are those who have only played ME3 or those who like depressing endings.

This is a generalization and an assumption and is uncalled for, I have 7 shepard saves on xbox, i've played the first two many times and I don't find the ending depressing in the slightest, I find it amazingly provacative, comments like this need to stop.

^ This. While I'm a fan with around 200 hours investsed in the series, I still liked the Synthesis ending I chose because of the idea behind it. I'd always taken note of the changing role of the geth and my Shepard's evolving view about synthetics throughout the series. At first, I only saw them as enemies thanks to the heretic geth and the Reapers. In ME2, I saw that the issue was more complex than I'd believed with Legion and the orthodox geth - not to mention EDI's unshackling and Shepard dealing with his/her resurrection through technology. In ME3, I saw that AIs could evolve to become more like us - even to admire us for the attributes that make us human.

It really hit me that I had the opportunity to make a change that would, in my eyes, elevate us all through Synthesis and that we could still retain our inviduality. I approached the ending from a more philosophical standpoint, finding it to be very meaningful - and there's nothing wrong with that, just like there's nothing wrong wtih disliking the endings due to the lack of conventional closure, etc. I wasn't unaware of the plot holes either - I just didn't view them as ruining that moment for me or the sacrifice that I was making.

And yes, I even found it hopeful with the Normandy crash and the coda at the end because (even taking the issues with the Normandy crash into account), it proved to me that the galaxy survived and that people lived on. Now then, maybe we could stop with the ridiculous comments about our intellect and taste, along with the insuations that we can't possibly be long-term fans if we liked the ending(s). I've even said that alternative endings can't hurt because the people who are upset over the endings can get what they need. At this point, though, I really feel very little goodwill towards the "movement" as a whole.

I agree with you.

[HenchxNarf]

Jaysh wrote...

Your going to judge the entire movement because of me? *laughs*

No, I judged the subset of the movement long ago, you just add to it.

Modifié par HenchxNarf, 20 mars 2012 - 05:40 .

[Setz]

I didn't feel cheated at all. I wasn't aware of the 16 ending options being promised or the wildly different endings, or where people were told their choices matter. I played the first 2, liked them, bought the third and when it ended I went "Hmmm, woulda been nice to know what happens to everyone, but good enough". This is definitely not the first time I thought an ending should have included more, but I didn't feel cheated.

Could it have been greater? Yes. Was it good enough to back the purchase of the game? Definitely.

[macarius5]

Valo_Soren wrote...

Jaysh wrote...

The people who "love" the endings are those who have only played ME3 or those who like depressing endings.

This is a generalization and an assumption and is uncalled for, I have 7 shepard saves on xbox, i've played the first two many times and I don't find the ending depressing in the slightest, I find it amazingly provacative, comments like this need to stop.

For me, why I find the ending artocious because there was no closure and connection.. so many unanswered questions.  i think we can all understand/appreciate the nature of sacrifice (shepard's death).   however for me, I felt a disconnection by the three choices.  The emotional attachment you have for this characters don't seem to justify the last 10 minutes of the game... the reapers were destroyed /controlled but it does not seem resonate to as a victory.. that feeling of "inner peace" in encountering a hero who just made a sacrifice to save the world.  yes it is suppose to be sad but I could not make a  connection of a bittersweet feeling  to that ending (if that is what the ending was meant to convey)... i can't seem to articulate it but somehow I feel hollow ... i was not uplifted in any way. more so when it is followed by the scene where the normandy crashed to an alien planet... i think what upsets me on this cutscene is there was no feeling of loss from the crew LI that shepard just died... though you get that theme for a new future (presented by the blue clear sky and sort of garden of eden theme) but it does not seem to mesh/connect well that the protagonist just died... relays destroyed...   confusion and frustration follows in trying to disect/understand what just happens.

it was such a big disappointment really.. the game was great until that last 10 minutes (encounter with the catalyst child) 
 

[Anuvis13]

HenchxNarf wrote...

sistersafetypin wrote...



I agree. But judging a movement by the actions of one is silly imho. It's as bad as judging the whole of the Occupy movement on one person.

But when a large group acts the way he does in your group, it looks bad. And you cannot possibly deny that there is not a very large chunk in your movement that acts this way.

That goes both ways. The majority of the people who like the ending think we want a happy/Disney ending and don't hesitate to claim we are whiners who just want that. Which is completely wrong. They are also unaware of the major plot holes in almost all cases. If someone likes the ending then I respect that but I expect they inform themselves before mocking others or making assumptions.

[HiddenKING]

sistersafetypin wrote...

I have another question... Why don't you care that almost up until the day of launch, Casey Hudson and others were claiming there would be wildly diverging endings because the fans deserved more then an 'A, B, C' pick one end.

But that's what we got. And I don't understand why you're not upset.

I didn't believe anythin that was said toward launch, it's marketin. When Capcom says they won't release a "Super" or "Complete" edition of a game, I've learned not to believe them, when Peter Molyneux promises anythin, I know he probably won't deliver. Choice or the Illusion of choice is very limited, there wasn't much difference between the endings of the previous 2 Mass Effects. Yes you could have characters killed off in ME2, but it was fairly linear. Honestly don't believe you should have been given an end choice. I think a story, any story should have a beginnin and end. Everythin else is subject to change, except for that. You can't change the beginnin of Mass Effect, and I don't think the end needs it either.

[Bourne Endeavor]

Valo_Soren wrote...

Wrong, if you choose destruction, the reapers are destroyed, organics win, it just happens to take the geth and edi with it on that choice.

Yes, and in doing so the entire fleet there to assist Earth is doomed.

They still have FTL drive and while it will take awhile to get from one place to another it is possible and plausible for certain races to colonize local worlds, if not, its not like the humans aren't going to share the Sol Systemw ith the other races who helped them save their planet.

Not quite how it works, mate. Previously lore indicated interstellar travel would be impossible given the distance between systems. Anderson explicitly states this in ME and is backed by various others including the Council. This means travel would be considerable, ranges in years, if not decades, for some species whose home world is quite a ways.

Setting lengthily distance aside a moment, they would not have the supplies to travel even months, let alone a year(s) and Earth is in no position to offer any. Furthermore, you cannot just "colonize" a planet at random. It would require resources, proper equipment and this assumes they are inhabitable to begin with. Earth is only the truly viable one in the Sol System and we have established why that would not be feasible.

Of course, this assumes Arrival is completely ignored and the relay explosion did not annihilate everything. Some exposition of this abrupt change would have been wonderful.

Yes, but the crew survives, and they are on a lush jungle type world where it looks as if they will have plenty to eat and drink and survive on.

What about Garrus and Tali, who cannot survive on human food? No, they did not find the one planet that just happened to be suitable for all species. That is incredibly contrived writing, and frankly insulting. Regardless, so they live in a garden of Eden until old age hits? Liara is certainly going to be lonely when everyone else dies in half a century.

This also depends on your war asset number and choice, and there's actually no proof that he is in fact dead in two of the three choices, I've done two playthroughs, the first symbiosis choice i made shows him diving into the stream to create a new race but also becoming something else himself, but it doesn't show his dead body, the second was destruction wehre he chose to end the reapers and all other synthetic life and before the credits role the camera rolls over some wreckage, showing shepards N7 chest plate and then you hear him taking a gasp of breath.

The Synthesis ending, Shepard essentially becomes data. The Godchild specifically references this as a necessity to complete the process. In fact, you see her body dissolve in a split second before the scene pans away from Shepard. On the off chance those clips are inaccurate, her body has only one place to go, floating in space.

In Destroy, no that scene is both contrived and a plot hole. We witness Shepard incinerated by the resulting explosion and only later see someone with N7 gear take a gasping breath. That means absolutely nothing except BioWare could not commit to their own decisions. Either you have Shepard alive or you don't, but a cliffhanger "maybe!" for the conclusion of a trilogy is nonsense, never mind it being impossible as mentioned.

That seems like plenty of variability to me depending on the war asset, in some cases Anderson survives, in some he doesn't, in some cases you can cause the illusive man to shoot himself or shoot him yourself. It all depends on how much you do and how much war assets you gather, if you just do the story missions and nothing else i guarantee you'll see different things happening throughout the game even that are effected by your unwillingness to not get every single war asset possible.

Those particular scenes are not the issue, despite the plot holes surrounding how either of them got there, but instead what comes immediately thereafter. Shepard is provided three choices by the Godchild and never given an opportunity to question or even defy it. She just readily accepts these at face value. A comparable example would be my claiming the ending sucked and you believing me without ever seeing it for yourself, or for Shepard to lay down in defeat when Sovereign essentially told her our defeat was inevitable.

This is precisely what people are so irate about. We were promised choices and a variety of endings, yet none of those were delivered upon. For those who enjoyed the endings, you have my envy but why could we not have gotten the ones we wanted? I never wanted a happy ending but you know what, this series is about choices and people like them. So give them a happy ending. It is no less cliche than "Hero sacrifices self for the greater good!"

Instead our choices amount to picking a favorite color. Whether you shoot Anderson or convince TIM to commit suicide is irrelevant because it accomplishes nothing. You still get three choices, all of which are 95% identical and no dialogue wheel.

While I am rebutting you, I have no qualms with you or anyone else liking the ending. It is your opinion, just as this is mine.

Modifié par Bourne Endeavor, 20 mars 2012 - 05:47 .

[ReavousX]

 I'm on OP's side of the debate here, in that I'm not pleased with the endings, but there's a lot of misconceptions about fans who are in this camp of thought.

The absolute shortest answer I can give as to why I didn't like the ending, and I would like to see it addressed, is that there was no resolution after the climax.  Now, sometimes you can get away with this, typically in the middle of a trilogy, but at the conclusion of an epic tale like the Mass Effect trilogy, you've got to have a solid resolution.

The final chapter of a trilogy should tie up most loose ends, there's nothing wrong with a few questions, that keeps intrigue for future tales, but ME3 takes it far beyond that point.  

The thing that bothers me is, we don't really see the immediate impact of our ultimate decision on the galaxy around us that we had shaped with our choices.  

[Jaysh]

HenchxNarf wrote...

Jaysh wrote...

Your going to judge the entire movement because of me? *laughs*

No, I judged the subset of the movement long ago, you just add to it.

You are nothing but a hypocrit. You call me "arrogant" because I was making a judgment upon the people who like the ending, but you yourself are judging the entire movement for people who hate the ending? 

[Setz]

Anuvis13 wrote...

HenchxNarf wrote...

sistersafetypin wrote...



I agree. But judging a movement by the actions of one is silly imho. It's as bad as judging the whole of the Occupy movement on one person.

But when a large group acts the way he does in your group, it looks bad. And you cannot possibly deny that there is not a very large chunk in your movement that acts this way.

That goes both ways. The majority of the people who like the ending think we want a happy/Disney ending and don't hesitate to claim we are whiners who just want that. Which is completely wrong. They are also unaware of the major plot holes in almost all cases. If someone likes the ending then I respect that but I expect they inform themselves before mocking others or making assumptions.

Umm... social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/323/index/10291251/2#10297848

It's
an ending poll. And people voting for the happy unicorn ending are
winning by a landslide. You're actually a minority in not asking for one.

[Clayless]

Jaysh wrote...

HenchxNarf wrote...

Jaysh wrote...

Your going to judge the entire movement because of me? *laughs*

No, I judged the subset of the movement long ago, you just add to it.

You are nothing but a hypocrit. You call me "arrogant" because I was making a judgment upon the people who like the ending, but you yourself are judging the entire movement for people who hate the ending? 

He is using evidence. Are you?

[stormhit]

This isn't directly answering your question, but I was struck way back while playing the first game that the Reapers were being portrayed as so powerful that any potential resolution was going to be somewhat disappointing and overly convenient. So given that aspects of the ending were like that, I wasn't surprised.

[Keladis]

Valo_Soren wrote...

I do not feel misled because I expected this kind of esoteric and self sacrificing ending in the first place. I'm not sure why a dark universe sci-fi world like Mass effect would lead people to believe that the ending was going to be all rainbows and cup cakes.

Do you not understand! its not the self sacrificing that everyone is pissed about.  Most of us could care less that Shepard dies as long as the ending is well written and give a little closer.

Hell if the ending was Harbinger attacks Shepard wakes up and finish his run to the citadel comforts the illusive man and kill him walk over to the Citadel controls and opens it so the Crucible can connect to the Citadel. Fires it and destroys the reapers and then collapse and dies due to his injuries. Then cuts away to a scene of your allies celebrating then shows the members of your crew finding Shepard and dead and the game ends.

This would still allow us to the speculation that Bioware wanted.

The other reason fans are upset about the ending is the lack of multiple endings that BioWare promised in interviews and here is a link to a list of those promises with links to their interview they was made in. alizrak.wordpress.com/2012/03/18/the-broken-promises-of-mass-effect-3-spoilers/

But the ending was a complete mess with so many plot holes. read this article to see some of the stuff that the fans that don't like. www.gamefront.com/mass-effect-3-ending-hatred-5-reasons-the-fans-are-right/

[HenchxNarf]

Jaysh wrote...

HenchxNarf wrote...

Jaysh wrote...

Your going to judge the entire movement because of me? *laughs*

No, I judged the subset of the movement long ago, you just add to it.

You are nothing but a hypocrit. You call me "arrogant" because I was making a judgment upon the people who like the ending, but you yourself are judging the entire movement for people who hate the ending? 

Oh boy. You really can't read, can you?

I don't judge the movement as a whole. I judge the people like you who act arrogant and uninformed. I judge the ones who can't let someone say something positive about the game without being told they're dumb, a troll, or a PR person.

I don't judge the movement as a whole. I do, however think they're being ridiculous. But that's my own personal opinion. I judge those who put themselves out there to be judged by their actions.

[Jaysh]

Our_Last_Scene wrote...

Jaysh wrote...

HenchxNarf wrote...

Jaysh wrote...

Your going to judge the entire movement because of me? *laughs*

No, I judged the subset of the movement long ago, you just add to it.

You are nothing but a hypocrit. You call me "arrogant" because I was making a judgment upon the people who like the ending, but you yourself are judging the entire movement for people who hate the ending? 

He is using evidence. Are you?

How can I? No one is explaining on why they like the ending.

[Jagri]

EternalAmbiguity wrote...

Jagri wrote...

Here is a question I would have for people who support the ending.

Do you not regret not having a chance to confront Harbinger for one last time? I feel rather cheated I didn't get to at least spit on him for all the trouble he gave us in ME2.

Not at all.

What trouble? All he did was talk smack.

Harbinger did direct the Collectors to destroy the SR1 Normandy and kill Shepard before the events of ME2. Indeed what trouble did Harbinger give Shepard other then nearly put him/her permanently out of the picture? Lucky for us TIM was there to spend adnormal sums of credit to restore Shepard.

I could list more example such as him directing the operations that lead to the abduction of hundreds of thousands of people and the horrid Reaper creation that ends up trying to kill Shepard and crew.

Modifié par Jagri, 20 mars 2012 - 05:50 .

[HenchxNarf]

Our_Last_Scene wrote...


He is using evidence. Are you?

He's trolling at this point, ignore him. It'll do no good.

[Leonia]

SpiderFan1217 wrote...

I've been playing since 2007. I've got about 300 plus hours playing ME games, and I like the endings. To answer your question: No, I do not feel that I was lied to. My decions did effect the game. I changed that whole galaxy in multiple ways. Quarian/Geth peace, dead Reapers, Humanity has Council Seat, Rachni are are friends now, Krogans are cured of the Genophage. I did effect the ending. In my opinion, what people who don't like the endings fail to realise is: the last choice isn't the end. The ending is how the universe is left after Shep defeats the Reapers. People need to stop being angry because they didn't get different cutscenes.

I do understand that this is not the opinion of other, and in no way am I trying to force my opinion on others. They are intitled to those opinions. Just as I am intitled to mine.

Agreed, though my Shepard's decisions were totally different (but that just proves we got a unique experience, as we were promised). I think a lot of the anger stems from knee-jerk, in-the-moment reactions to the ending and a failure to look at the bigger picture of the entire triology. It's easy to feel depressed at the end, it's not a happy ending nor is it rife with closure. But when you get past that depressive state and realise that you accomplished what you were supposed to do, you took Earth back (or destroyed it, depending), you stopped the Reapers in the end.. the conclusion to Shepard's story is there.

A few "extras" such as an epilogue sequence or finding out what happened after the fact would have been nice, definitely, but it wasn't NECESSARY since the conclusion of the story had already been reached. This is probably where DLC and future games will have to fill in the gaps. I think a lot of us really felt like somebody had died in our life when we finished ME3, whether that was mirrored by Shepard's death or not is dependant on your ending, and that grief has shocked us in a way that no other game has and that has led to the reactions we've seen on the forums. The plotholes and inconsistencies have existed since the very first game but we're looking harder for reasons to justify the hurt that we felt at the end, we're looking for someone to blame, we're depressed fans looking for a happy and/or conclusive ending to hold onto.

But that's not what we're getting and we have to accept that the story is complete, it is what it is, for better or for worse. Could it have been executed a bit better? Hell yeah. Nothing is perfect. But as a conclusion to the story, I take comfort that Shepard finished the mission in the end. To know more than that is extra icing on the cake.

Modifié par leonia42, 20 mars 2012 - 05:50 .