833 réponses à ce sujet

[Rurik948]

The only purpose of this post is to ask Bioware not to include protagonist Auto-dialogs in Dragon Age 2.   Mass Effect 3 was extremely frustrating for the players who like RPG story-telling.  Auto-dialog kills immersion, sense of partisipation and interactivity.  Since Mark Darrah invited players for a disccusion about their preferences this topic can be a part of it.  I would greatly appriciate if people with similiar opinion will write in this post.  

[Korusus]

Agree. Just say NO to auto-dialogue. DA2 had a little bit of auto-dialogue that was determined by what "tone" you picked most often, but ME3 took that concept to an absurd level. Keep that nonsense in Mass Effect where it belongs, auto-dialogue has no place in Dragon Age.

[Halberd96]

Yeah I agree with this.

I was okay with ME having a more defined protagonist but DA I'd rather there were more multichoice dialog and less auto-dialog.

[Draden_LeFey]

I have to say i disagree, have a silent protaganist was ok back when not every line was voiced but i much prefer being able to lose myself in a story and characters which react to each other accordingly.

I wouldn't read a book or watch a film with a silent lead unless it was a plot device and while I know games are different due to there interactive nature I find having a silent character distances me from the world the game takes place in.

[G00N3R7883]

I would also like DA3 to avoid auto-dialogue, I want as much control over my character as possible. I didn't really have a problem with it in ME3, but I think that's partly because I was lucky that Shepard mostly said what I was thinking anyway, and partly because it fit the feel of ME3's faster paced action.

I really want DA3 to go back to hardcore RPG roots as much as possible. (Note, for me silent or voiced is a different conversation entirely. I think its possible to have choices with both silent and voiced).

[PinkShoes]

yeah it really annoys me and when my character said something depending on what personality i used most annoyed me. just cause i am nice most the time doesnt mean at that exact moment i would say that.

[fchopin]

NO to auto-dialogue.

[RedSonia]

I really found more expressive and I got more immersion with my Warden than with my Hawke because, voiced or not, she was more true to what I wanted her to express. Also I'm tired to read the Warden was silent. He/She had a voice, just didn't use it in the dialog wheel.

[Rurik948]

I mean keep the dialog system of Dragon Age 2, not like in Mass Effect 3.

[T3HB3N]

I echo the notion. A complete NO to auto-dialogue. Sometimes it's easier to put in an auto-dialogue because there is only one way a situation can go, but even if it just means a different NPC response or even the same NPC response it gives the player full control and lets them be the PC, which is the most important point of a role-playing game.

[PaulSX]

I support this idea. BioWare please take a note for this.

[Wulfram]

Yes, autodialogue is bad. It annoyed me in DA2, it was horrible in the ME3 demo.

[Koire]

I think I disagree. I liked how it was handled in DA2 (lines depending on your personality).

[PsychoBlonde]

I take it auto-dialog is when the protagonist has a line where you don't get an opportunity to select a response?

Well, there are some pros and cons to doing this.

Pros:

You can have realistically-flowing dialog moments where the protagonist does organic things like interrupt people or make tiny nonsignificant "yeah go on" noises without having a long, long pause while the player reads the options and chooses one.

It eliminates the endemic "choices" from ME where you'd pick between two different responses and your character WOULD SAY EXACTLY THE SAME THING. Or, there'd just be one response.

It reduces the amount of voiceover filespace you need because the insignificant ways of rephrasing the same statement are removed.  Considering the voice files are NOT AN INSIGNIFICANT PROPORTION of the total game filespace, this may be a Big Deal.  It also means less work for the writers who have to find two or more ways to rephrase the same thing, less time for the voice actors (who are expensive) . . . this stuff adds up.

Cons:

Some people feel that this reduces their "control" over their character, even if, in fact, they have precisely the same amount of control as before.

NOT having "autodialog" dates back from the day when all conversations took place in text boxes and you had to have occasional moments where the player clicked single options like "yeah go on" or "continue" in order to break up the text into smaller chunks that fit in the box.

I'm thinking here that there's also an effect where, if your character says something stupid, but you clicked on an option, you feel that, well, the other option MUST have been stupider (or maybe you'll reload the game and try the other one, and settle for whichever you thought was least dumb--I wound up doing this several times in ME when both options resulted in the same dialog), but with auto-dialog you don't have this ability. So it makes the auto-dialog seem even dumber, because you don't even have the option of *trying* to select the less-stupid phrasing.

It may also be a problem that, with fewer pauses in conversations where they have to do some reading and thinking, people find it more difficult to follow what's going on. And it's harder to turn away from the game to listen to your kids/spouse with fewer pauses.

I don't really see this happening with Dragon Age anyway, given that in Mass Effect you usually only have two significant options (the renegade/paragon split), whereas in Dragon Age you now have as many as six: 3 tone options, a "special option" based on stuff you've done, a "special tone option" based on your overriding tone, and "invoke a companion". Possibly also "flirt", although I've never seen all 7 of those on the wheel at the same time. This degree of complexity really prohibits auto-dialog, as the times you're going to have when ALL OF THOSE OPTIONS are the same should be vanishingly rare. Heck, even for "continue", the protagonist should really have different tone options.

So, I wouldn't worry about it.

Modifié par PsychoBlonde, 20 mars 2012 - 04:20 .

[Dave of Canada]

Yes please.

ME3 is atrocious, going 3-4 minutes of Shepard talking without prompt.

[realguile]

RedSonia wrote...

I really found more expressive and I got more immersion with my Warden than with my Hawke because, voiced or not, she was more true to what I wanted her to express. Also I'm tired to read the Warden was silent. He/She had a voice, just didn't use it in the dialog wheel.

Agreed. it was part of the great story telling in DAO and the main reason I play and continue to show SOME suppot to BW:).

Please take this into consideration as it is one of the thing I covet dearly in my rpgs.

[LobselVith8]

suntzuxi wrote...

I support this idea. BioWare please take a note for this.

I agree as well. It's one of the aspects of Dragon Age II that I felt ruined immersion in the story.

[Pasquale1234]

I agree wholeheartedly with the purpose of this thread. It isn't the first thread here with this particular request.

And I don't believe it was always dependent on predominant personality, either. One of the more annoying examples of this is when Hawke saunters up to Cullen (after Enemies Among Us) and shares information that the Hawke I was attempting to roleplay would not have shared with him. I believe this happens regardless of predominant personality.

It will be interesting to see what they decide to do with requests like these. I believe this is a large part of their movement toward more cinematic stories and the desire to make the game flow from live action to cinematic sequence in a more seamless fashion. Auto-dialogue is a tool they use to help accomplish that goal.

(a goal that is somewhat misplaced for an RPG imho, but that's another matter entirely...)

[LegendaryBlade]

Dialog Wheel as a whole needs to go for DA3, it just doesn't fit. What was wrong with the way selections worked before? From a list? Works fine with voiced characters, just look at The Witcher.

Modifié par LegendaryBlade, 20 mars 2012 - 05:56 .

[wsandista]

No dialogue wheel, just bring back the silent protagonist, having the character voiced really limits the character for me.

[Mmw04014]

Agreed.

ME3 was a huge disappointment in this regard. I like to have as much control over my character as possible so when she speaks without my input, it's jarring and annoying.

[Sylvius the Mad]

The player needs to control what his character says. All of the time. Never can the PC act or speak without the player having directed him to do so.

[AkiKishi]

Don't like it ,but I don't see them going back either. KOA was unvoiced and for the most part pretty good. Certain scenes definately lacked though because of that. Of course you could design the game to avoid those sorts of scenes. Inspirational speeches without a voiced protagonist just come across as "wrong".

Something more radical like pre-loading personalities could be quite interesting too.

[thats1evildude]

I'm cool with it. It makes me feel like I'm playing a character, not a mute paper doll. I re-played Golems of Amgarrak not too long ago and I found it jarring how the Warden never makes any observations or comments on the world around him.

Modifié par thats1evildude, 20 mars 2012 - 06:42 .

[DadeLeviathan]

This. A million times this. I can tolerate auto-dialogues in a game like Mass Effect, but having it i a "pure" RPG like Dragon Age makes my skin crawl. I am under no illusion that Bioware will ever go back to the original method of the unvoiced PC. That's unfortunate, but still most likely a fact.

But please, for the love of god, at least do the best to make the PC of Dragon Age 3 our character, and not just someone we get to control every once in a while. In Dragon Age: origins, you play through your story. In Dragon Age 2, you play through Hawke's story, and that is where the game failed in my humble opinion. While such a story is not bad and can even be done in a way where you play your Hawke, it still doesn't offer even remotely the same level of depth and immersion as Dragon Age: Origins did. 

I don't care if you need to take five years to make Dragon Age 3. Just please do your best to capture the magic that made Dragon Age: origins so great.