833 réponses à ce sujet

[Morroian]

James_Raynor wrote...

How about going back to DA:O where there is no morality but your own, no artibary stances or the such.  I found the system in DA2 to be too much like mass effect.  I like mass effect, but I don't play dragon age for the same reason as mass effect.

The DA2 system had no basis in morality.

Meris wrote...

That's the case with every protagonist, the question is who completes the character's beliefs and personality. The player or the DM (BioWare)?  

What about both.

Sharn01 wrote...

Is it possible that the dialogue wheel could actually contain some of the words that will actually be used, it may cut down on some of the surprises,? I would like the ability to hover over it to see the full line myself, but I realize I would be asking for something you have no intention of giving.

I would think that they are at least considering it.

Modifié par Morroian, 27 mars 2012 - 09:59 .

[Ithilai]

While I haven't finished ME3 yet, I'm finding it increasingly difficult to give a damn about Shephard. Auto-dialogue happens much too often, way more often than in previous ME games or DA2. For a game that has always boasted about the amount of control and choice you have, you get very little of it in ME3. As someone else said, Shep can go for several minutes, entire scenes, where there's maybe one prompt.

Bioware, this is BAD. If you actually want to continue making RPG's, you're going to have to do something about the increasing action gameplay in your games. It's bad enough that the character (Hawke/Shephard) isn't truly ours. Leaving us out of conversations really isn't helping.

[wsandista]

Ithilai wrote...

While I haven't finished ME3 yet, I'm finding it increasingly difficult to give a damn about Shephard. Auto-dialogue happens much too often, way more often than in previous ME games or DA2. For a game that has always boasted about the amount of control and choice you have, you get very little of it in ME3. As someone else said, Shep can go for several minutes, entire scenes, where there's maybe one prompt.

Bioware, this is BAD. If you actually want to continue making RPG's, you're going to have to do something about the increasing action gameplay in your games. It's bad enough that the character (Hawke/Shephard) isn't truly ours. Leaving us out of conversations really isn't helping.

Thats the problem everyone is having. Auto-Dialouge removes player control of the PC from the player. In an RPG this is not good. Players must be able to control everything that their PC does, not just choose which tone they use.

[Maria Caliban]

wsandista wrote...


Thats the problem everyone is having.

No, not everyone.

[Rorschachinstein]

Ithilai wrote...

While I haven't finished ME3 yet, I'm finding it increasingly difficult to give a damn about Shephard. Auto-dialogue happens much too often, way more often than in previous ME games or DA2. For a game that has always boasted about the amount of control and choice you have, you get very little of it in ME3. As someone else said, Shep can go for several minutes, entire scenes, where there's maybe one prompt.

Bioware, this is BAD. If you actually want to continue making RPG's, you're going to have to do something about the increasing action gameplay in your games. It's bad enough that the character (Hawke/Shephard) isn't truly ours. Leaving us out of conversations really isn't helping.

ARE YOU SERIOUS?

[AkiKishi]

Ithilai wrote...

While I haven't finished ME3 yet, I'm finding it increasingly difficult to give a damn about Shephard. Auto-dialogue happens much too often, way more often than in previous ME games or DA2. For a game that has always boasted about the amount of control and choice you have, you get very little of it in ME3. As someone else said, Shep can go for several minutes, entire scenes, where there's maybe one prompt.

Bioware, this is BAD. If you actually want to continue making RPG's, you're going to have to do something about the increasing action gameplay in your games. It's bad enough that the character (Hawke/Shephard) isn't truly ours. Leaving us out of conversations really isn't helping.

I found I had the same problem so I switched to "action mode". The problem is not so much with the autodialogue but rather the idea that Shepard is your character, in ME3 that illusion pretty much get's shattered by a sledgehammer. If however you approach the game in a similiar way to Dues Ex:HR. Problem goes away.

Modifié par BobSmith101, 31 mars 2012 - 09:08 .

[Rurik948]

I found I had the same problem so I switched to "action mode". The problem is not so much with the autodialogue but rather the idea that Shepard is your character, in ME3 that illusion pretty much get's shattered by a sledgehammer. If however you approach the game in a similiar way to Dues Ex:HR. Problem goes away.

Because they did it much better in Deus Ex.  If you remember, there are certain moments when the system is switched to prompted dialogs. 

[AkiKishi]

Rurik948 wrote...

I found I had the same problem so I switched to "action mode". The problem is not so much with the autodialogue but rather the idea that Shepard is your character, in ME3 that illusion pretty much get's shattered by a sledgehammer. If however you approach the game in a similiar way to Dues Ex:HR. Problem goes away.

Because they did it much better in Deus Ex.  If you remember, there are certain moments when the system is switched to prompted dialogs. 

I'd agree with that. But there was still a lot of dialogue that you never choose directly. The thing with DX was it was very clear that Adam was not my creation from the start. I was able to play the game the way I chose through him though, so it all worked out.
DX has lots of choices and consequences and ways to approach the game, far more than ME3 for example. Which is something I want in my RPGs far more than being pedantic about what comes out of the characters mouth.

[Cultist]

yes. Autodialog is as terrible as dialogue wheel.

[They call me a SpaceCowboy]

One thing I wouldn't like to see is how in ME3 cutscenes are removed all together in favour of Shepard standing near the companion while auto dialog plays between them in the background.

[bleachorange]

I think removing the color coding of dialogue options and improving the descriptions of the options is about all i have to say on that topic. it's not a huge deal for me, but i invariably choose according to color, and not what i was going to say, just to keep my character in character. maybe i'm weird in that regard, but it is what it is.

[ReallyRue]

I agree. I like having a voiced protagonist, but I don't like being unable to pick most of the conversation options (and when you can, there are only two to choose from) such as in ME3.

[Verlidiane]

I love hearing my character speak, but auto-dialogue? I'd watch a movie if I just wanted to listen all the time. DA:2 had really good dialogue options, more like that please.

[Taxonomy]

David Gaider wrote...
Beyond that, the thing to keep in mind is that the people who suggest changes are the ones who had big problems with the system. The people who did not have problems are not here, and probably would not be looking for threads like this to post in-- at least until the system changed and now they have a problem with whatever's been changed. That's universally true, and not specific to DA, and thus it really shouldn't be surprising that everyone you see on a thread regarding a complaint about the dialogue system is... complaining about the dialogue system. It's a self-selecting group of people involving themselves in the discussion. Which is okay, so long as one's perception on it is not skewed.

I liked the DA2 system! Dominant tone and all, too - it really shined on multiple playthroughs; you got the sense that your Hawke had a different personality, rather than just was making different choices.

Along those lines, please please please do not have ME3 levels of auto-dialog. They killed my sense of agency and connection to Shepard. Along with those last 10 minutes, auto-dialog was my #1 problem with ME3.

[Dessalines]

I love hearing my character speak. I think that was my main complaint about Dragon Age:Origins as how my character appeared to be a mute to be a bit slow.

[Uriko128]

 Autodialog sometimes help to shape the character. For me, Sheppard has more personality and is more "alive" than the warden, revan or the exile. Although I agree they overused autodialog a bit in ME3, I think Hawke autodialog was more balanced.

Modifié par Uriko128, 03 avril 2012 - 11:14 .

[Mad-Max90]

I actually like the DA2 dialogue choices, sure they could improve it, but over all, I liked it

[Jackel159357]

Personally I don't think the dialogue wheel translates well from Mass Effect to Dragon Age. It works well in Mass Effect to give a really amazing cinematic experience but I find that cinematic experience less appealing in a fantasy genre rather than a sci-fi one.

I would personally prefer immersion in a fantasy RPG over a cinematic experience because I just don't think it works as well with the genre.

I won't mind the dialogue system in Dragon Age 3 so long as it isn't in the lest bit restricted. In Mass Effect in order to maximise your play through you needed to accumulate paragon and renegade points with your dialogue which meant you basically got to choose between being a total wimp or a complete dick. Dragon Age 2 similarly had this with the companion approval system but not as bad. I would rather be able to respond to dialogue how I want to and have dialogue have minimal effects on whatever the approval system is.

[Aldandil]

BobSmith101 wrote...

DX has lots of choices and consequences and ways to approach the game, far more than ME3 for example. Which is something I want in my RPGs far more than being pedantic about what comes out of the characters mouth.

This is an interesting statement, because when thinking about what role-plaing actually is, the opposite should be true.

[AkiKishi]

Aldandil wrote...

BobSmith101 wrote...

DX has lots of choices and consequences and ways to approach the game, far more than ME3 for example. Which is something I want in my RPGs far more than being pedantic about what comes out of the characters mouth.

This is an interesting statement, because when thinking about what role-plaing actually is, the opposite should be true.

You can't roleplay in the traditional sense in a pre-scripted enviroment. You may as well go with what works on the chosen medium rather than trying to shoehorn something in that does not.

The more cinematic things get the more true that statement becomes. Unless you want blank faced,puppet like characters who are led through the story by NPC's.

[David Gaider]

Taxonomy wrote...
I liked the DA2 system! Dominant tone and all, too - it really shined on multiple playthroughs; you got the sense that your Hawke had a different personality, rather than just was making different choices.

I like the dominant tone as well, though it's interesting reading some of the comments about how it could be improved. I get that some people just don't want it at all-- or anything even similar-- and while I respect their opinion, removing the system entirely just isn't going to happen.

Along those lines, please please please do not have ME3 levels of auto-dialog. They killed my sense of agency and connection to Shepard. Along with those last 10 minutes, auto-dialog was my #1 problem with ME3.

As I said earlier, that's not the plan for DA-- whatsoever. The only auto-dialog we tend to do is either a continuation of something you just picked (so you select an option and there's a back-and-forth exchange that results) or the dominant tone-based line that results from selecting an action choice (which I wouldn't really consider auto-dialog, but considering you have less control over the resulting line than in tone choices I imagine many would). That was the level in DA2, and while we might end up changing how it works in the future at the very least we would be using this as the base from which to work-- not ME3.

Modifié par David Gaider, 04 avril 2012 - 04:01 .

[cJohnOne]

I sort of like the concept of Renegade even though I haven't played any MassEffect.

[bEVEsthda]

David Gaider wrote...

Taxonomy wrote...
I liked the DA2 system! Dominant tone and all, too - it really shined on multiple playthroughs; you got the sense that your Hawke had a different personality, rather than just was making different choices.

I like the dominant tone as well, though it's interesting reading some of the comments about how it could be improved. I get that some people just don't want it at all-- or anything even similar-- and while I respect their opinion, removing the system entirely just isn't going to happen.

Along those lines, please please please do not have ME3 levels of auto-dialog. They killed my sense of agency and connection to Shepard. Along with those last 10 minutes, auto-dialog was my #1 problem with ME3.

As I said earlier, that's not the plan for DA-- whatsoever. The only auto-dialog we tend to do is either a continuation of something you just picked (so you select an option and there's a back-and-forth exchange that results) or the dominant tone-based line that results from selecting an action choice (which I wouldn't really consider auto-dialog, but considering you have less control over the resulting line than in tone choices I imagine many would). That was the level in DA2, and while we might end up changing how it works in the future at the very least we would be using this as the base from which to work-- not ME3.

So we get autodialog.   ...Just as we get voiced protagonist. ...Just as we get dialog-wheel. I'm too distanced from this to judge wether dominant tone is going to be a help or not in this disaster. Hopefully it will be some help .

One thing I'm curious about though. Are you pushing ahead with this because all the levels of bosses above you, are convinced this will sell better? Or because they like it? Or is all this because of consideration for people who play on low-res TV sets?
And when these decisions were taken, do you know if it was ever considered that it might not be a big deal for those who like it, while it might be a deal-breaker for those who don't like it?

You do your job, of course, but do you like this better? Now that you get to narrate and serve your stories in greater detail, rather than leaving space for the player?

[LobselVith8]

sjpelkessjpeler wrote...

It would be great David if the choices you get to make really made an impact to how the story in regards to your companions evolves. DA2 was much more preset than DAO in regards to companions.

I'd like it if choices became significant, if the protagonist's choices actually mattered. As it stands, I'm not a fan of having a voiced protagonist, automatic dialogue, or the dominant tone having the protagonist say something outside my control. I end up feeling like the protagonist isn't my character, but Bioware's. It leaves me feeling disconnected from the protagonist, and I really don't like that feeling in an RPG. While those issues bother me, what appeals to me is choices.

Choices that actually mean something. I think having choices that mattered would be good - not two choices that result in virtually the same ending (via the endings to Dragon Age II, Legacy, and MoTA), but actually produce a different result (that isn't simply superficially different). I'd love to see choices actually impact the world around us. I'd even like to see our choice of who we are play a role, i.e. people reacting to the protagonist being a mage, or having the narrative address the mage protagonist becoming a blood mage.