281 réponses à ce sujet

[tenojitsu]

A lot of really interesting responses, especially from some artists. It seems the majority of people believe video games are art, however, also believe that puts them beyond being critiqued. So the only argument I've ever heard up to this point about why the ending shouldnt be changed, the "art defense" is being refuted by actually artists....interesting

[Abirn]

The art defense falls apart then you have set deadlines that have to be met causing the game to obviously be rushed. You don't rush art, you finish it then release it when its ready. Look at valve or blizzard they never set to hard release dates and they make the best games in the industry.

[Inprst]

tenojitsu wrote...

A lot of really interesting responses, especially from some artists. It seems the majority of people believe video games are art, however, also believe that puts them beyond being critiqued. So the only argument I've ever heard up to this point about why the ending shouldnt be changed, the "art defense" is being refuted by actually artists....interesting

Yes. Just because "it's art" doesn't preclude it from being critiqued at large. The majority of art throughout history was meant to be viewed...by other people! It's expression. Of course criticism is warranted. We, as the cosumers (whether you use your eyes or your ears or what have you) have the right to voice our distate, regardless of the medium (performance art, visual art, literary arts).

I think it's fantastic that we have a new medium of art. Games. And we'll probably 500 years from now have entirely new means of expressing ourselves. Fantastic. But that doesn't mean it can't be critiqued. 

Modifié par Inprst, 20 mars 2012 - 08:47 .

[SuperZombieChow]

Inprst wrote...

tenojitsu wrote...

A lot of really interesting responses, especially from some artists. It seems the majority of people believe video games are art, however, also believe that puts them beyond being critiqued. So the only argument I've ever heard up to this point about why the ending shouldnt be changed, the "art defense" is being refuted by actually artists....interesting

Yes. Just because "it's art" doesn't preclude it from being critiqued at large. The majority of art throughout history was meant to be viewed...by other people! It's expression. Of course criticism is warranted. We, as the cosumers (whether you use your eyes or your ears or what have you) have the right to voice our distate, regardless of the medium (performance art, visual art, literary arts).

I think it's fantastic that we have a new medium of art. Games. And we'll probably 500 years from now have entirely new means of expressing ourselves. Fantastic. But that doesn't mean it can't be critiqued. 

Not much more to say aside from this. Being Art =/= being immune to criticism.

[Klijpope]

tenojitsu wrote...

A lot of really interesting responses, especially from some artists. It seems the majority of people believe video games are art, however, also believe that puts them beyond being critiqued. So the only argument I've ever heard up to this point about why the ending shouldnt be changed, the "art defense" is being refuted by actually artists....interesting

Hmmm, no one on this thread who has being saying videogames are art has used the "art defence", as you put it. I know I haven't being saying that. I've been saying the opposite.

If games are art they are subject to criticism - they have to be to qualify as art in the first place. Artistic criticism.

No work of art is immune to criticism. Period.

Demanding a work of art be changed using a consumer rights argument is unacceptable. Skirting dangerously close to censorship by internet forum, or even closer in the case of the FTC complaint.

And there are better arguments for asking for a change, creative ones. But BioWare has no duty to respond - as neither have you the obligation to continue to buy their products.

This is a PR issue, not a customer rights issue.

Modifié par Klijpope, 20 mars 2012 - 09:33 .

[XTR3M3]

I do get really uncomfortable when people demand a better ending because of "their rights" and threaten to sue or file this, that or the other with said agency. That is not what most of us are about.

What I do believe is it is "our right" to complain and critique this product and ASK for a resolution.

To tell the truth, I just want closure either way. Tell us you are standing by the product's ending and be done with it or commit to releasing DLC in the future for and alternate that makes sense. That way I can either throw these games in a box to collect dust or leave them installed in anticipation of a DLC ending that is on the same level as the rest of the franchise.

The BioWare label for me in the past meant I would buy the game almost sight unseen. After Dragon Age 2 and the ending fiaso with ME3, I will never pre-order another BioWare product again. I will wait until I see the chatter about the future products. I wouldn't have felt cheated in this game if I bought it knowing what I was in for.

Modifié par XTR3M3, 20 mars 2012 - 11:02 .

[Natureguy85]

Klijpope wrote...

This is a PR issue, not a customer rights issue.

Actually, it's a crappy writing issue in my view. Cmon, they gave the Vermire fallen a proper, fitting, meaningful death. Why not Shepard? I mean, seriously Bioware, you already had a great example of a proper tragic death right in the same storyline!

XTR3M3 wrote...

I do get really uncomfortable when people
demand a better ending because of "their rights" and threaten to sue or
file this, that or the other with said agency. That is not what most of
us are about.

Woah, have people really threatened to sue? I haven't seen that. Good luck getting a judge to even give you standing to hear the case! Petitions and being done with Bioware titles is one thing but that would be rediculous.

XTR3M3 wrote...
The BioWare label for me in the past meant I
would buy the game almost sight unseen. After Dragon Age 2 and the
ending fiaso with ME3, I will never pre-order another BioWare product
again. I will wait until I see the chatter about the future products. I
wouldn't have felt cheated in this game if I bought it knowing what I
was in for.

I made a rule for myself after being disappointed once that I will always read reviews before I buy. I broke that rule because I knew I would want ME3. Overall I liked the game and still enjoy MP, but I haven't been able to get myself to try the end with full assets or start a new game. Sad after all the replays I did of ME2.

Modifié par Natureguy85, 21 mars 2012 - 05:21 .