190 réponses à ce sujet

[beccathelion]

I'm telling you, that's why I kept buying Bethesda games. They fixed their mistakes and moved on. People respect you more when you eat your crow and take it all as a big learning lesson.

[idunhavaname]

legion999 wrote...

jojimbo wrote...

Bethesda are the No1 gaming devs of all time, and i say this because of a really important , crucial element...they support modding, hell they even release a full SDK for skyrim to support the community. if there ever was a mentor for game devs, these guys are it.

Valve?

I Give HAT's off to Valve.

[ThatGuy39]

Another difference is that in Fallout 3, the ending made sense and fit the character. If you played the good character, he made the noble sacrifice and purified the Potomac, thus making it a lot easier to survive in the wasteland. If you played an evil character, he either forced the BOS character to do it, or put the virus in the GECK, thus dooming everyone. It fit with the canon of the story, and was well written. Also, you were given an epilogue so that you knew what happened. What people were upset about was that it was an open world game, and that ended the game, so you couldn't keep playing. There was a lot of stuff to do in that game, and it would be difficult to do it all in one playthrough. So the Broken Steel DLC was released to continue the story, and have it fit with whole open world philosophy. Players were upset, but it did not get anywhere near the backlash Mass Effect 3 did. I played Fallout 3. I liked the ending, and I was bummed that I couldn't go back and complete some of the side quests or explore more of the wasteland, but I didn't feel cheated, either. Mass Effect, I did, because it felt tacked on, and answered nothing.

[Sett101]

Reiella wrote...

Sett101 wrote...

Beth is owned by ZeniMax Media. ZeniMax owns a few game devs. Not sure ZeniMax is as bad as EA but they are the same type of corp. and you can see real changes from Morrowind-Skyrim. Not to get off topic with Skyrim bugs but after a month 1/3 of their target PLATFORMS still was unable to play the game + + + a ton of other massive bugs. I think it was rushed for target date but were willing to admit they had issues and fix them at least.

They are not the same type of corporation.  They are entirely privately held.  Which is a significant distinction in terms of corporate climates.

I was talking about being producers/publishers as for structure they are a corp with a full board and split control. I'm not talking up EA or putting down ZeniMax just pointing out Beth is not as small or as self funding without control as stated. 

[kyban]

Thanks for sharing this. I think Bioware is a much better company than Bethesda (my opinion!), and I would hope that they can admit this was a mistake too and correct it.

[ThatGuy39]

jojimbo wrote...

Bethesda are the No1 gaming devs of all time, and i say this because of a really important , crucial element...they support modding, hell they even release a full SDK for skyrim to support the community. if there ever was a mentor for game devs, these guys are it.

(double post, sorry). And they have supported the community since Morrowwind. All of their RPG's have come with modding support, and have a huge modding community. Hell, in the first few days, Steam had over 2 MILLION mods for Skyrim. That's pretty impressive. Granted, comparing Mass Effect and Skyrim are comparing apples to oranges. Mass Effect isn't really an open world game, and modding really wouldn't work within it's structure, however, the fact that Bethesda has that kind of support of their gaming community says something. Bioware should look to them as an example. Of course, there is the 800 LB. gorilla in the corner called EA, and they may be keeping a tight leash on Bioware.

[Sanrei]

idunhavaname wrote...

legion999 wrote...

jojimbo wrote...

Bethesda are the No1 gaming devs of all time, and i say this because of a really important , crucial element...they support modding, hell they even release a full SDK for skyrim to support the community. if there ever was a mentor for game devs, these guys are it.

Valve?

I Give HAT's off to Valve.

Hahah! I see what you did there.

Valve has flaws like everyone else out there but they are admirable in ways that other developers should take note of. Their stance on restrictive DRM and understanding that lowering the prices on the games they offer every so often is smarter than insisting on keeping prices up.

If only they could count to three.

Modifié par PedEgg, 20 mars 2012 - 10:03 .

[ThatGuy39]

Kastrenzo wrote...

Lassandra wrote...

The point is that Bethesda said, "Whoops. We messed up the ending. Here we fixed it in DLC."
Which by the way was the first of many quality DLC for F3.

Yeah i'm a Bethesda fan. Oh well. They do good things and own up to their mistakes.

dear god, I could say Operation Anchorage was anything but quality, but that was just my opinion.
Point was they made their game so much more with it all though.

 
Yeah, Operation Anchorage was meh, but you got some cool gear out of it (loved the stealth suit and the gauss gun)

[Soldatto Rosso]

The thing is, the Bethesda devs know they are game developers and thus know what video games entail. They are a completely separate medium from film and books. Games should not be constrained by traditional narratives, rpgs even more so.

But Bioware writers believe themselves to be artists first, and game designers second. They write fantastic scenarios and great dialogue, but most of their gameplay decisions are questionable. Thus, they will be more unwilling to swallow their pride as "artistes" than the folks at Bethesda, who are masters of the game crafting and thus know what is expected of them.

[Dreogan]

I love this video. "We messed up, let's fix it."

[ConradsLaces]

Kyazain wrote...

The only problem is that Bioware is not Bethesda. But we can hope, though.

Bethesda also has teh luxury of being developers and publishers - they were the ones to publish Fallout 3... so any schedules they had to keep to, were set by themselves, as developers... and could probably be altered if necessary.

With EA in the mix, things get dicey. Bioware might want to publish a proper ending... but EA might not allow it, or might only allow it if...say... they get to charge 30 bucks for it or some other ****e.

I really think Bioware should go the route of Bethesda, and become their own publisher... actually... I'd like to see ALOT more game companies do this...

All the publisher is, is a middle man, who makes profit off of the developer's hard work...

bioware could have released this game on it's own... and it would have sold just as well, because the ME franchise is/was so well-known and loved. EA didn't need to spend any cash advertising this one... but they probably did, solely to justify thier involvement... that, and they needed another AAA title to release on Origin...
Steam is infinitely better... but, and this is a huge but... the competition might be good for Steam... although I can't envision EA giving out 80% discounts on games like Steam does.

[Wildhide]

They could learn a lot from Bethesda's customer relations.

[streamlock]

I highly doubt something like this is going to happen. There is a pathological creative nihilism at work. It has happened in every creative medium for centuries, from books to playwrights to movies and TV.

That type of mentality is nigh impossible to budge. As scary as it is to say this, it would actually take EA to barge in and reign in personalities like that.

[xeNNN]

see this is why i still brought Bethesda games after they buggered up FO3.
they actually manned up and admitted the failure.

bioware need to do this or alteast make a compromise with the community to fix this. its a horrible way to end such a great trilogy.

HOLD THE LINE.

[xeNNN]

ConradsLaces wrote...

Kyazain wrote...

The only problem is that Bioware is not Bethesda. But we can hope, though.

Bethesda also has teh luxury of being developers and publishers - they were the ones to publish Fallout 3... so any schedules they had to keep to, were set by themselves, as developers... and could probably be altered if necessary.

With EA in the mix, things get dicey. Bioware might want to publish a proper ending... but EA might not allow it, or might only allow it if...say... they get to charge 30 bucks for it or some other ****e.

I really think Bioware should go the route of Bethesda, and become their own publisher... actually... I'd like to see ALOT more game companies do this...

All the publisher is, is a middle man, who makes profit off of the developer's hard work...

bioware could have released this game on it's own... and it would have sold just as well, because the ME franchise is/was so well-known and loved. EA didn't need to spend any cash advertising this one... but they probably did, solely to justify thier involvement... that, and they needed another AAA title to release on Origin...
Steam is infinitely better... but, and this is a huge but... the competition might be good for Steam... although I can't envision EA giving out 80% discounts on games like Steam does.

this^

[Complistic]

Bioware rarely admit they were wrong, and never about anything this big so I'm not holding my breath.

[Tyrzun]

PedEgg wrote...

Tyrzun wrote...

So, you have faith in a BRAND name?  Really?  You think the name magically cares?  Seriously.  

The people that "Cared" about single player story telling are gone.  Understand?  Gone!  I don't  understand how some people keep giving credit to the company name and not the people that MADE the game happened.  Most "fans" have no CLUE on who made their best games and it's sad. 

Psychology 101 I guess.  Indoctrination into believe the BRAND is all that matters.  Rather sad.

Basically, there is not ONE person in charge at Bioware that has made a game you LIKE.  ME 1 and ME 2 for example.  Drew is gone and that's why they butchered this story.  These people took his job, claimed they could do it better, told the board of directors they could do it better, etc... they aren't going to admit they aren't capable of doing their job.

Which is why Casey came out and said WE are proud of OUR ending.  The sold the powers that be that it would be the way to go.  Would you give up your job because the customers said you were bad?  
No, you'd tell your boss they were wrong.  No one at Bioware will admit it was left in POOR hands.

You're only prayer would be for the CEO or some very high level exec to step in and REMOVE power from the people that have it and restore Drew, but they won't do that. EA invested over $100 million in SWTOR and I'm certain the "deal" was that their "Best" talent work on SWTOR, Drew is on SWTOR.

Until you learn you don't lecture people without knowing the details, stop talking to me.
You don't know anything about me, how long I've been playing games released by Bioware, how familiar I am with the gaming industry to begin with, or what I actually know about the current situation, which is a lot more than you've given me credit for. So I'm not going to give you any credit whatsoever.

You aren't teaching me any hard lessons, you aren't waking me up or snapping me out of any sort of stupor, you're just being a self-important dick. If you're trying to help, you're failing as hard as ME3's ending did. It's been nice chatting.

Which person at Bioware do you have faith in to fix this or cares?  It's a simple question.  We'll see if your  faith in that person turns out to be well placed.  If they fix it you were right, if they don't...

[Xivai]

They could learn a lesson from this.

[Sean]

Tregon wrote...

Jjacobclark wrote...

Bethesda softworks still has an indie spirit and the freedom to exercise it. Whatever bioware does in this situation will come from EA...so we just have to hope the suits rule in our favor

And thus, we should buy Bethesda products and make sure they do not get temptation to let EA buy them.

That their games overall rock is also good reason.

Most likely won't happen, Zenimax Media owns Bethesda. Zenimax also owns id Software.

[BadlyBrowned]

PedEgg wrote...

Valve has flaws like everyone else out there but they are admirable in ways that other developers should take note of. Their stance on restrictive DRM and understanding that lowering the prices on the games they offer every so often is smarter than insisting on keeping prices up.

If only they could count to three.

One thing you got to hand to Valve (and to Blizzard as well) they don't release a game until it's finished. Now where's my HL3 damn it?! 

[The Angry One]

" 'We should stand our ground!', no we messed up, lets fix it."

BioWare, take note.
Eveybody makes mistakes. But if you won't fix it, then I have no respect for you.

[Arokel]

mkelso27 wrote...

The only difference is I loved the ending to Fallout 3. I also loved being able to continue and play afterwards, but I would have been fine if it stayed like it was. I will not be fine if ME3's ending stays like it is.

I agree completely.  It was a pleasant surprise for me (who was unaware of the ending backlash) rather than an attempt to save the game.  This time is different.  

Also, Doyle changed Holme's fate.  In fact some of my favorite stories are after he started writing them again.

[Bendok]

Todd Howard is a class act.

[Versus Omnibus]

Nice to see Todd isn't to high up and thinks everything he touches is gold (unlike some people...). He can admit he and his team made a mistake and actually try to correct it. If Bioware were to do this they would be loved by so many people and it would be a huge benefit!!

Please Bioware, add new endings!!

Hold the line.