232 réponses à ce sujet

[Dejajeva]

I wish when people said they were done with the Dragon Age franchise they really were and would stop coming here to complain about a franchise they are done with and let the rest of us be excited in peace.

[Sutekh]

hoorayforicecream wrote...

Filament wrote...

bEVEsthda wrote...
I suppose it is. If you're not playing DA2 as the same kind of RPG as DA:O, but rather as a "fun" combat romp.

I play DA2 the same as I played DAO, and neither as just a "fun combat romp."

Hey, me too!

 

Clearly none of you exist, and neither do I.

@bEVEsthda 

DA2 is nothing like a fun combat romp.

1. Off DLCs, combat, or to be accurate, many encounters aren't fun at all - with a few notable exceptions.

2. I liked DA2 (while preferring DAO) despite this, and I played it as the same kind of RPG as DAO: plot driven, lots of dialogues, romance, companions, story and all that jazz. And no, whether the story was well told or not is not the point.

Therefore, despite what you seem to believe, people who played both games, enjoyed both games and consider both games to belong in the same sub-genre exist. 

So to paraphrase Maria Caliban, I'll buy DA3 because of its predecessors. Unless they announce something in it I find so repelling I can't get over.

(I'd have something to say about people judging something before it is even officially announced, while they know absolutely nothing of its future content, and how bias can blind and all that, but let's keep it nice and fuzzy. A little less condescension would be nice, though).

Modifié par Sutekh, 21 mars 2012 - 12:42 .

[LinksOcarina]

Eh...

Baldurs Gate is overrated to be honest. The system is way too broken now a days to even really get into ( I guess I was spoiled by the fluidity of 3rd and 4th edition more than the clunky way 2nd worked) and honestly, it had broken characters and a pretty mediocre plot to begin with.

If they really look back to that...well, hopefully its more like Origins over Baldurs Gate. Spiritual successor be damned.

As for the current direction, how about I choose what I like, and you kindly go away?  That works for me I think.

Modifié par LinksOcarina, 21 mars 2012 - 12:50 .

[LegendaryBlade]

 Sometimes I wonder if people even read the Opening Post of a thread, or just the title. I pretty clearly state that people whoenjoyed DA2 will probably enjoy DA3; my point is to those people who are spreading 'DA3 is going to be what DA2 should of been" and etc etc

LinksOcarina wrote...

Eh...

Baldurs Gate is overrated to be honest. The system is way too broken now a days to even really get into ( I guess I was spoiled by the fluidity of 3rd and 4th edition more than the clunky way 2nd worked) and honestly, it had broken characters and a pretty mediocre plot to begin with.

If they really look back to that...well, hopefully its more like Origins over Baldurs Gate. Spiritual successor be damned.

As for the current direction, how about I choose what I like, and you kindly go away?  That works for me I think.

How about I use a discussion board to discuss my opinions on a product and you kindly not post in my thread? (I really don't care if you post, I am open to discussion)

You see how that sort of works both ways.

[Savber100]

If you don't want to be fooled again than why bother coming to forums here?

[LegendaryBlade]

Savber100 wrote...

If you don't want to be fooled again than why bother coming to forums here?

Probably for similar reasons to why you still post in the ME3 section despite disliking the ending.

I'll watch the threads and hope we get word that DA3 will be...not DA2, that hope is about dry but it's there. In the meantime, though, discussion is a good thing.

[Joy Divison]

Dejajeva wrote...

I wish when people said they were done with the Dragon Age franchise they really were and would stop coming here to complain about a franchise they are done with and let the rest of us be excited in peace.

We complain about this franchise because we'd like to believe Bioware still has what it takes make other good franchises.  We hope, in short, it is merely the franchise we are done with and not the studio.

Modifié par Joy Divison, 21 mars 2012 - 03:04 .

[John Epler]

Folks, let's remember that everyone has the right to voice their opinion, so long as they do so civilly and constructively. If you take issue with a particular aspect of what someone's saying, address that, rather than attacking the person.

[Imrahil_]

T3HB3N wrote...
I don't blame you and you're absolutely right, but you CAN'T judge a game before you've tried it. You have no idea what's to come. You can anticipate and expect and want, but you just can't judge.

Yes, you can.  Nowadays, anyway.  Teh internets have changed this.  You can youtube it.  You can read user reviews.  You can ignore critic reviews.  You can go to forums & read about it in no-spoiler forums.  There's no excuse for buying a game sight-unseen anymore.

"don't knock it 'til you've tried it" is a dead concept.

[Sutekh]

LegendaryBlade wrote...

 Sometimes I wonder if people even read the Opening Post of a thread, or just the title. I pretty clearly state that people whoenjoyed DA2 will probably enjoy DA3; my point is to those people who are spreading 'DA3 is going to be what DA2 should of been" and etc etc

Given the OP is full of hyperbole and assumptions, addressing it seriously, or calmly, or both is proving difficult.

You've decided that you wouldn't like DA3. I'm pretty sure, given your OP and other posts you've made in other threads, that nothing we can say, no matter how reasonable and logical (or not), can convince you to even give it a chance. And it's your right.

You've also declared that it's gonna be a failure. Unless you've got some time machine or super-power, you simply can't know that. I also have the suspicion that you want it to fail. To validate, vindicate, prove you right or whatever.

Then you assume that fans of DAO will be disappointed etc... I happen to be a huge fan of DAO. I don't need you to tell me what I'm going to like or dislike and brush my opinion aside because I like DA2, as though I wasn't a True Believer or something.

People saying that DA3 will be what DA2 should have been are basing their opinions on what they read from the devs in the announcement thread, and their own taste. They may be wrong, but you have no ground to declare they actually are, which is what you do, because, right now, nobody but the devs has any idea about the actual content of the game.

And there's also the fact that I don't see the point. You've given up on the franchise, you've already made your mind. Unlike many DA2 critics I've seen here (and some quite vitriolic), your post isn't constructive, so DA3 will be better, or even more to your liking; it's not even a rant. It's just negativity for the sake of it.

What I'd really like to know is: taking all that has been said by the various devs since the announcement, what is it that makes you think that DA3 is a lost cause, generally speaking (i.e. as opposed to "for you and your own personal tastes"). What, specifically, makes you think that fans of DAO won't like it?

[Imrahil_]

Sutekh wrote...
*snip*

You could have just told him that's just like, his opinion, bro.  Less typing that way, same point.

Modifié par Imrahil_, 21 mars 2012 - 03:49 .

[kingtigernz]

T3HB3N wrote...

Darth Death wrote...

T3HB3N wrote...

Don't knock it 'til you've tried it.

That theory doesn't work with the current BioWare. They seem to be on a losing streak as of late. Not trying to be a hater, but very hard to maintain faith in them. 

I don't blame you and you're absolutely right, but you CAN'T judge a game before you've tried it. You have no idea what's to come. You can anticipate and expect and want, but you just can't judge.

I want DA3 to be great but I have a fair idea of what it will be like and this is depressing.If it is like Dragon Age 2 they will not get a cent out of me.The only good thing to come out of DA2 is the game disc makes a great drink coaster.

[Sutekh]

Imrahil_ wrote...

Sutekh wrote...
*snip*

You could have just told him that's just like, his opinion, bro.  Less typing that way, same point.

No.

I gave my opinion and I explained why. That's how discussions (that he claims he wants) go. If everyone did that, this forum would be made of "your opinion, bro", "nope, your opinion, bro". Fascinating stuff, that would be.

(And what is it with people telling others how they should or shouldn't post today?)

[Imrahil_]

Sutekh wrote...

Imrahil_ wrote...

Sutekh wrote...
*snip*

You could have just told him that's just like, his opinion, bro. Less typing that way, same point.

I gave my opinion and I explained why. That's how discussions (that he claims he wants) go. If everyone did that, this forum would be made of "your opinion, bro", "nope, your opinion, bro". Fascinating stuff, that would be.

Not to get all meta, but I've got some time, so let's examine this!

"Given the OP is full of hyperbole and assumptions, addressing it seriously, or calmly, or both is proving difficult."
Very "That's just, like, you're opinion, bro." (TJLYOB from here on out). You disparage his opinion as "full of hyperole & assumption". You need to show that is true. You can't just claim it is true, otherwise it's just, like, your opinion, bro.  You've clearly started out in TJLYOB mode.

"You've decided that you wouldn't like DA3." - classic TJLYOB. You may as well have just said the words.  You gave no counter-arguments, no support to your statement, no reason to accept your hypothesis.  You just claimed it to be true.  As I said, classic TJLYOB.

"I'm pretty sure, given your OP and other posts you've made in other threads, that nothing we can say, no matter how reasonable and logical (or not), can convince you to even give it a chance. And it's your right."
You assume what he thinks. You assign motives to him. And you even go with the old "it's your right", which is literally synonymous with TJLYOB.

"You've also declared that it's gonna be a failure. Unless you've got some time machine or super-power, you simply can't know that. I also have the suspicion that you want it to fail. To validate, vindicate, prove you right or whatever."
This is a double threat. You went with "you can't know that", a classic TJLYOB synonym, then assumed his motives once more. Total TJLYOB. I think your post could be a wiki illustration of TJLYOB. But wait, there's more...

"Then you assume that fans of DAO will be disappointed etc... I happen to be a huge fan of DAO. I don't need you to tell me what I'm going to like or dislike and brush my opinion aside because I like DA2, as though I wasn't a True Believer or something."
See? "You can't tell me what I think!"  "You can't brush my opinion aside!" I still maintain you could have saved yourself keystrokes by just typing TJLYOB.

"People saying that DA3 will be what DA2 should have been are basing their opinions on what they read from the devs in the announcement thread, and their own taste. They may be wrong, but you have no ground to declare they actually are, which is what you do, because, right now, nobody but the devs has any idea about the actual content of the game."
People who don't agree with you are just basing it on their own tastes.  Tastes = opinions, right?  Same thing, yes?  TJLYOB.  But no one except the Devs know for sure. Again, this is your point, yes? That's what you're saying? Or, to put it another way, if neither you nor the poster in question knows for sure, if only the Devs know, then, well, TJLYOB, yes? Totally your opinion. Bro.

"And there's also the fact that I don't see the point. You've given up on the franchise, you've already made your mind. Unlike many DA2 critics I've seen here (and some quite vitriolic), your post isn't constructive, so DA3 will be better, or even more to your liking; it's not even a rant. It's just negativity for the sake of it."
That appears to be only thing you said that was *not* equivalent to TJLYOB.  You feel like DA3 will be better.  You feel like the original poster has given up on the franchise, although you don't support that claim with evidence.  You feel like it's "just negativity for the sake of it".  Fair enough.  You haven't really supported any of those claims, though.  You haven't supplied any evidence for them.  So, I guess, really, that's just, like, your opinion, bro.

Modifié par Imrahil_, 21 mars 2012 - 04:50 .

[Maria Caliban]

Siradix wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

k177sh0t wrote...

What's the incentive to buy DA3 anyway?

I bought DA2 because of its predecessor, dunno about DA3

I'll buy DA3 because of its predecessor.

DA3 has two predecessors, you are going to have to be more specific.

I could likewise say that DA 3 has ten predecessors.

But I said predecessor. As in, the game that proceeded it.

[Kinkaku]

I'll be getting Dragon Age 3 mostly because of the fact of how invested I am in the story since the first.

When it came Dragon Age 2 I'd say that the plot was lacking defiantly but at the worst the game was decent because I had fun playing it even if it was lacking in dialogue, environments, and customization but it was still a decent game.

On the topic of the DLC "expansions". I thought that they were great improvements to an already fun game, and of course the lore!

I judge games based on there own merits, not by looking at the predecessors.

Modifié par Kinkaku, 21 mars 2012 - 05:50 .

[ObserverStatus]

How soon will Dragon Age 3 be available for pre-order?  I can see the "pre-order cancelled" posts already! 

[Sutekh]

Imrahil_ wrote...
Not to get all meta, but I've got some time, so let's examine this!
<snip>

Really?

You want me to pick his post apart and make a thorough autopsy of it?

Mike Laidlaw said in an interview with Gamespot that a return to the RPG style of Dragon Age: Origins is unlikely, proclaiming "The big key is to not adjust 180 degrees again, because we've done this. 

No link, vague paraphrase. Reading this, I have actually no idea what Laidlaw actually said. Words can be interpreted in several ways.

Dragonage III is going to be a failure for just this reason.

Hyperbole ("a failure") and assumption "is going to be". Not "could be", not even "should be".

Or, more specifically, fans of DA:O who are hoping that we will get the proper sequel we wanted in DA3 are going to be sorely dissapointed.

Speaking for all fans of DAO on the planet, assuming what they want is what he wants.

The idea that "DA3 will be what DA2 should of been" is already spreading, and it's not the case.

Again, assumption ("it's not the case"). He can't know that. He never gives an argument based on actual devs quotations to support his point. And he has no idea what DA2 should have been for those people. "It's not the case" just because he says so.

DA3 will be more of what DA2 was, and that's fine for people who enjoy DA2.

Taken out of context, innocuous enough. But it implies that "people who enjoyed DA2" can't possibly be the same as those who are DAO fans, since DAO fans will be disappointed and DA2 likers will be happy. You can't be both at the same time, so, different people.

As for the dismissal? Read the thread.

The whole post isn't constructive, since he never gives a hint on what would make DA3 good for him, what he fears would make it bad. Just "It will be a failure."

And when exactly did I say "Those are facts! Not my opinion, facts, I tell you!"?

Now why you feel the need to come to his defense is beyond me. He seems quite able to do it himself. But next time I'll need some debate lesson, I'll make sure to call for you. Not sure it's the place, though.

[Kinkaku]

EternalAmbiguity wrote...

So glad you're here to tell us what to do.

But I have a dilemma:

What if I loved DA:O, and liked DAII a lot? I'm in quite the bind!

Well if your a true RPG fan you most definatly will not be buying that DA3 especially if you "Liked" DA2!! 

[ObserverStatus]

Kinkaku wrote...

EternalAmbiguity wrote...
So glad you're here to tell us what to do.
But I have a dilemma:
What if I loved DA:O, and liked DAII a lot? I'm in quite the bind!

Well if you're a true RPG fan you most definatly will not be buying that DA3 especially if you "Liked" DA2!! 

corrected. 

[panamakira]

LOL this argument again. So I can like DA:O but I can't like DA2? How can we start judging a game that hasn't even released yet?

I'm not going to judge anything until I've played at least demo or the game in discussion (which won't come out if anything for a really long time!)

Seriously people.

[LegendaryBlade]

EternalAmbiguity wrote...

So glad you're here to tell us what to do.

But I have a dilemma:

What if I loved DA:O, and liked DAII a lot? I'm in quite the bind!

I imagine if you liked DA2 you will like DA3. Which I am pretty sure is stated in the OP. Perhaps such a confrontational tone was not the best way for me to open up conversation, I should edit the OP some and invite this to be more of a discussion before it spirals down in to a flame set of some sort.

There's an above series of posts that seem to argue a bit over my OP, and that's fair, but I do want to point out that I am perfectly open to the long conter-posts to mine. I wouldn't have started this thread if I wasn't. It'd be nice if people who opposed me did a little bit more defending of the product and their stance and a little less of insult-then-leave tactics. It doesn't offend me, but it seems counter productive.

I'd be pretty damn happy of DA3 does anything to win back it's Origin fans that were dissapointed with DA2, but I have a sinking feeling that we're just going to get more of DA2 in DA3 and I think my feelings are pretty valid until I see otherwise from announcements.

[Bekkael]

I liked both of the Dragon Age games. I'm actually still disappointed there will be no additional content for DA2; I enjoyed Hawke.