285 réponses à ce sujet

[Auld Wulf]

Dunabar wrote...

It's Auld Wulf, what do you expect?

Oh Quarian supporters -- attack the person, never the argument. Do you have to be so subhuman? Is that your role in reality? I mean, honestly... I don't think I've ever seen one of you nasty little blighters attack one of my arguments rather than me myself.

It's no wonder I feel so magnanimous to Synthesis/Geth fans, and so utterly disgusted by you and yours.

Welp, I get the high horse. I like the high horse. You can fling all the mud at me you like from down there.

[SinerAthin]

remydat wrote...

Umm, no.  Any idiot can decide to go to
war when they have a weapon that disables the enemy and allows them to
be killed without firing back.  There is no strategy in that.  A
strategist would think about what could possibly go wrong.  Oh I don't
know.  Maybe the Reapers who one faction of the Geth have already allied
with might intervene.  Think that is possible Sun Tzu Gherel?

That's all speculative, and the only reason we know is in retrospect.

It's easy to look back in history and call people idiots.

Phatose wrote...

Doesn't the fact that he apparently did not anticipate the Geth going to the Reapers for assistance qualify him as a pretty bad strategist? 

The Reapers wipe out both Organics and other Synthetics alike.

It is a logical folly to ally with something that intends to use you, then discard you, such as the Reapers.

The Geth wanted to survive, and then;
- To ally with the reapers would be certain destruction.
- To fight the Quarians alone would only most likely result in destruction.

A logical computer such as the Geth should have picked the latter unless there was a critical lack of data(as in not knowing what the Reapers would do to them).

Gerrel knew the Geth, it seems perfectly reasonable for him to not expect them to miscalculate.

[Uncle Jo]

Auld Wulf wrote...

Oh Quarian supporters -- attack the person, never the argument. Do you have to be so subhuman? Is that your role in reality? I mean, honestly... I don't think I've ever seen one of you nasty little blighters attack one of my arguments rather than me myself.

It's no wonder I feel so magnanimous to Synthesis/Geth fans, and so utterly disgusted by you and yours.

Welp, I get the high horse. I like the high horse. You can fling all the mud at me you like from down there.

This post just went gold.

[Auld Wulf]

TK514 wrote...

How could you have been expecting him to stab you in the back since ME1 when he isn't introduced until 2/3rds of the way through ME2?

Simple answer to that is that I was mistaken. I thought he was in ME1, but I got mixed up. I was wrong.

Thanks for pointing out the error. I guess it's just quarian military people in general that just give me hives, then. I got the same feeling from Xen, Reegar, and pretty much any one of them that has a murder fetish. There are, sadly, too many Quarians in the Quarian military who have a murder fetish.

This is why I prefer Koris and the Quarian civilians. I know with Koris that I won't be stabbed in the back. He's a comrade, a bro, and someone you can rely on. Gerrel will betray you (and try to blow up the ship you're on) at a moment's notice.

It's the same kind of thing we saw in the Geth Consensus.

So, yeah, I guess what I'm saying is that I've never trusted Quarian military people. They all seem unbalanced in their special little ways. That's the kind of feeling I've had throughout the game. Which isn't to say that I hate Quarians, because I don't. I dig Tali, Koris, and the civilians. Though I'm sure that to Quarian supporters my text will be read as 'blah blah blah blah blah Wulfie hates all Quarians.'

Sigh.

I wish I was arguing against better people. It was so much nicer talking with the Deus Ex fans, there was a higher calibre of debate, there. Always a higher calibre.

I actually long for that.

But then I guess the difference with Deus Ex is that it was always a little on the crazy and inaccessible side, so it was never "candy entertainment" in the way ME1 was, or super accessible in the ways the later games were. So there's just more of a mainstream average to deal with. Who tend to be hateful, xenophobic, and very, very bad at debating.

Modifié par Auld Wulf, 21 avril 2013 - 08:51 .

[Argolas]

Spartas Husky wrote...

tickle267 wrote...

Yes I did.



Mmm... satisfying.

lol diplomacy??? weird definition for diplomacy.

Diplomacy reduces the cost of surrendering, and increases the chance of wandering monsters joining you.

[AngryFrozenWater]

Of course I did punch her. What was that idiot thinking to fire upon the vessel while the people on it were trying to save her ass? Too bad I couldn't kick the entire quarian crew from the Normandy.

[Argolas]

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

Of course I did punch her. What was that idiot thinking to fire upon the vessel while the people on it were trying to save her ass? Too bad I couldn't kick the entire quarian crew from the Normandy.

Ouch. You must have punched really hard.

[AngryFrozenWater]

Argolas wrote...

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

Of course I did punch her. What was that idiot thinking to fire upon the vessel while the people on it were trying to save her ass? Too bad I couldn't kick the entire quarian crew from the Normandy.

Ouch. You must have punched really hard.

LOL. My bad.

[Spartas Husky]

Argolas wrote...

Spartas Husky wrote...

tickle267 wrote...

Yes I did.



Mmm... satisfying.

lol diplomacy??? weird definition for diplomacy.

Diplomacy reduces the cost of surrendering, and increases the chance of wandering monsters joining you.

Well when the monsters have an awesome infantry fighting form called "prime" in their name. You know those monsters are kool. Or when those monsters can breed a colony in a matter of weeks... hell yeah I want those monsters joining me.

[remydat]

SinerAthin wrote...

That's all speculative, and the only reason we know is in retrospect.

It's easy to look back in history and call people idiots.

If you want to claim someone is a great strategist then they need to you know plan ahead.  There was nothing surprising about the Reapers allying with the Geth.  They did so in ME1 and to never account for a repeat occurrence when the Geth are faced with extinction is idiotic.  This is not rocket science.  You try to exterminate machines to take back your homeworld.  Is it possible those other machines that are hell bent on harvesting all organic life in the planet might decide to help? 

SinerAthin wrote...

The Reapers wipe out both Organics and other Synthetics alike.

It is a logical folly to ally with something that intends to use you, then discard you, such as the Reapers.

The Geth wanted to survive, and then;
- To ally with the reapers would be certain destruction.
- To fight the Quarians alone would only most likely result in destruction.

A logical computer such as the Geth should have picked the latter unless there was a critical lack of data(as in not knowing what the Reapers would do to them).

Gerrel knew the Geth, it seems perfectly reasonable for him to not expect them to miscalculate.

When the alternative is dying today then the logical conclusion is to accept potentially dying at some point in the future.  Who the hell says I will allow my species to go extinct today because well in 300 years when the Reapers finish their harvest they will kill me. 

The Geth obviously read Darwin and choose survival.  The Quarians apparently didn't otherwise this outcome was very predictable.

Modifié par remydat, 21 avril 2013 - 10:17 .

[Reever]

I probably will in a future playthrough, where my Shepard is a bit less diplomatic and a bit more pissed

[Suron]

I punch him every time now. Not so much in that particular Shepard would of done so...but more in the lines of I don't like the friggin choices....one you say "no it's ok" basically..the other you punch him like an Ape.

I wanted a non-Ape version where I don't act like a teenager but still tell him what he did was unacceptable and to get the hell off my ship (basically the renegade response minus the teenage temper tantrum)

[DeinonSlayer]

Suron wrote...

I punch him every time now. Not so much in that particular Shepard would of done so...but more in the lines of I don't like the friggin choices....one you say "no it's ok" basically..the other you punch him like an Ape.

I wanted a non-Ape version where I don't act like a teenager but still tell him what he did was unacceptable and to get the hell off my ship (basically the renegade response minus the teenage temper tantrum)

Then do the renegade response without clicking the interrupt which follows. You don't have to be a purist one way or the other.

[Dunabar]

Auld Wulf wrote...

Dunabar wrote...

It's Auld Wulf, what do you expect?

Oh Quarian supporters -- attack the person, never the argument. Do you have to be so subhuman? Is that your role in reality? I mean, honestly... I don't think I've ever seen one of you nasty little blighters attack one of my arguments rather than me myself.

It's no wonder I feel so magnanimous to Synthesis/Geth fans, and so utterly disgusted by you and yours.

Welp, I get the high horse. I like the high horse. You can fling all the mud at me you like from down there.

This coming from the person who attacks both and wonders why people just attack him over his argument? Maybe if you stopped trying to draw real life blood and just kept stuff in the game, maybe people wouldn't see a need to lash out at you as a individual. A lot of us have attacked your arguments and what do you tend ot throw at us?
-racist
-sociopath
-Xenophobia
-Supporter of Genocide

Not to mention you, yourself have actually made racist remarks before against a particular human group of a certain skin color. Why? Simply because our philosophical views differ from yours. Philosophical views that are neither right nor wrong for either side when it comes to a game

You know what? I wonder if you even know that this is a game we play, that we're not actually making real life choices.

But then again when you're on your so called "High horse" with your head in the clouds, I would imagine you don't see much and make your own assumptions of what you believe to be below you. You sir, can keep your believed 'high horse'. Down here on earth where my head is not in the clouds, I can see just fine that you're not on a horse, you're actually on a donkey which seems to suit you perfectly. Enjoy it though Auld Wulf, whatever helps you sleep at night.

I'll be down here where I can see things are actually Black, White, and a shade of Grey. Because if being on a horse required me to be anything like you, I rather walk on my own organic two feet.

[maurice tali zorah]

I didnt puch him.

[SwitchN7]

Of course i did and do. I would gladly butcher everyone with a smirk on my face that stands between me and my mission to save not only humans but the entire Goddamn galaxy fella. Ah sorry.Real life calls again and reminds me this is just another make believe product and none of this stupid threads matter anyway.

Modifié par SwitchN7, 22 avril 2013 - 01:57 .

[TheWill]

i punched him.. he put the entire fleet and live ships at risk... if we could have disabled the reaper base we would have had a massive geth ship on our side... the whole point of the ship was so that no geth would be alone... maybe if we had the ship.. legion wouldnt have cared so much about wanting to spread the reaper code to his people...
and they may then have survived destroy..

Modifié par TheWill, 22 avril 2013 - 11:50 .

[justafan]

TheWill wrote...

i punched him.. he put the entire fleet and live ships at risk... if we could have disabled the reaper base we would have had a massive geth ship on our side... the whole point of the ship was so that no geth would be alone... maybe if we had the ship.. legion wouldnt have cared so much about wanting to spread the reaper code to his people...
and they may then have survived destroy..

That ship was only dissabled, it was only a matter of time before it came back online.  Either the Quarians retreated while the Geth blockade of the relay was disrupted, or they go for a killing blow and destroy the dreadnought transmitting the reaper code, those were the only options.  

They did not know about the reaper backup at this point, and the whole point of the ship was not that no Geth would be alone, you are confusing it with the dyson bubble, the point of the dreadnought was to transmit the code and kill on the reaper's behalf.

Like it or not, had the Quarians tried to escape, the Reaper on rannoch would have reactivated the code while the Quarians were trying to flee and in all likelyhood they all would have died.  Gerrel made a bad decision by trying to destroy the dreadnought instead of retreating and saving the fleet for the future.  However, by a stroke of luck it turned out to be the right decision, as retreating would have led to an unpreventable recreation of the Geth victory over Rannoch, with the downside of the Geth still being Reaper puppets.

[SinerAthin]

remydat wrote...


When the alternative is dying today then the logical conclusion is to accept potentially dying at some point in the future.  Who the hell says I will allow my species to go extinct today because well in 300 years when the Reapers finish their harvest they will kill me. 

The Geth obviously read Darwin and choose survival.  The Quarians apparently didn't otherwise this outcome was very predictable.

It seems you misread.

- Fighting the Quarians would only -most likely- result in destruction.
- Whereas allying with the Reapers would -certainly- result in destruction.

Both are bad odds, but one is infinitately worse than the other.


If they couldn't stop the Quarians, the Geth would never have been able to stop the Reapers once the Reapers decided they weren't useful anymore.
If you have have two alternatives to survive, and your goal is survival; first option gives you a 5% chance(Fight Quarians alone), the other gives you a 0.0003% chance(Serve Reapers), a logical creation would not pick the 0.0003% one.

[Auld Wulf]

justafan wrote...

That ship was only dissabled, it was only a matter of time before it came back online.

This ignores that the Reaper signal had been taken offline. There's no way to know whether the Geth would actually attack, as the signal on Rannoch was stated to be short-range. They could have just asked Legion instead of trying to kill Shepard and his squad in cold blood. Excusing the actions of a monster makes you a monster in my book.

It amazes me how many monster apologists we have on the Quarian side. It makes me wonder just how many monstrous acts of earth's history they'd be apologists for, too, if they had the hots for the monster in question.

Gas chambers? Death camps? Really. Where does the willingness to defend monsters end? What would the Quarians have to do?

I'd like to know how Gerrel is any different with his frontline liveship glass cannons.

To be honest, I'd like to have shot Gerrel for his warcrimes, and left the more level-headed and ethical Koris in charge.

Modifié par Auld Wulf, 22 avril 2013 - 05:04 .

[Phatose]

SinerAthin wrote...

remydat wrote...


When the alternative is dying today then the logical conclusion is to accept potentially dying at some point in the future.  Who the hell says I will allow my species to go extinct today because well in 300 years when the Reapers finish their harvest they will kill me. 

The Geth obviously read Darwin and choose survival.  The Quarians apparently didn't otherwise this outcome was very predictable.

It seems you misread.

- Fighting the Quarians would only -most likely- result in destruction.
- Whereas allying with the Reapers would -certainly- result in destruction.

Both are bad odds, but one is infinitately worse than the other.


If they couldn't stop the Quarians, the Geth would never have been able to stop the Reapers once the Reapers decided they weren't useful anymore.
If you have have two alternatives to survive, and your goal is survival; first option gives you a 5% chance(Fight Quarians alone), the other gives you a 0.0003% chance(Serve Reapers), a logical creation would not pick the 0.0003% one.

Basic logic error.

The first option does not give you a 5% chance of survival.  It gives you a 5% of survival versus the quarans, which is then followed by a .0003% chance of survival versus the reapers.

So, actually, it's a 0.000045% chance of surviving both the Quarians and Reapers in the first, versus a .0003% chance of survival versus only the Reapers in the second.   A logical creation would not pick the .0000045% one.

[Auld Wulf]

You know what's funny about this? Even people over on Something Awful recognise how ridiculous the Quarians are and how close they come to being Third Reich-ish. I mean, really, let me state the reasons as to why you'd want to do more than punch Gerrel.

-- The Quarians weren't even alive at the time of the Morning War. Most of them likely don't even care. This is about nothing other than Gerrel's war fetish.

-- Gerrel could have asked Legion whether the ship would have been a danger. Instead, he decides to try and murder Shepard and her closest in cold blood, without even stopping to think about it.

-- Gerrel ordered an unprovoked attack on the unarmed Geth megastructure. This is equivalent to the Hiroshima nuke. It was completely unnecessary and only served to mercilessly euthanise non-violent Geth. Why? It helps Gerrel ****** at night.

-- Koris was forced to join in on Gerrel's plans because otherwise Gerrel would have withdrawn protection from the civilian fleets. The fleets had two choices: Die at the hands of Terminus pirates, or stand maybe a chance in Gerrel's idiotic Geth war. Worse, Gerrel strapped thanix cannons to the liveships without even upgrading their armour, making them glass cannons. And he plans to put these on the front lines. Quarians dying for a glorious agenda. Does this sound familiar?

-- As soon as the Reaper was taken down on Rannoch, Gerrel was ready to euthanise the Geth fleet. Even despite warnings that the Geth were about to come back to full strength, his war fetish was driving him to do this. He wanted another megastructure incident, because this is how Gerrel gets off. He likes attacking people who can't attack back. There's nothing better for him.

And Gerrel's not a monster? Really? Really?

I'll say it again, I love Koris, and I wish he'd step up to the plate and deal with Gerrel, taking his place and making peace instead of revelling in war fetishes. Gerrel is a monster, plain and simple. No amount of apologism will change that.

[justafan]

Auld Wulf wrote...

justafan wrote...

That ship was only dissabled, it was only a matter of time before it came back online.

This ignores that the Reaper signal had been taken offline. There's no way to know whether the Geth would actually attack, as the signal on Rannoch was stated to be short-range. They could have just asked Legion instead of trying to kill Shepard and his squad in cold blood. Excusing the actions of a monster makes you a monster in my book.

It amazes me how many monster apologists we have on the Quarian side. It makes me wonder just how many monstrous acts of earth's history they'd be apologists for, too, if they had the hots for the monster in question.

Gas chambers? Death camps? Really. Where does the willingness to defend monsters end? What would the Quarians have to do?

I'd like to know how Gerrel is any different with his frontline liveship glass cannons.

To be honest, I'd like to have shot Gerrel for his warcrimes, and left the more level-headed and ethical Koris in charge.

Oh Auldy, you amuse me so with your Godwining, calling people monsters, and only picking a single line of a long post to ruthlessly attack with disingenuous assertions.  

But to the point, it fully acknowledges that the reaper signal had been taken off-line, that is the whole point.  There was a backup signal in the form of a reaper, that would have reverted the Geth to their reaper-serving setting.  If Legion could have turned the Geth for the Good then and there, he should have mentioned something.  YOU forget that he only realizes it's an option when he sees the Reaper code hologram on the Normandy, and that he doesn't tell you of this possibility until the final Rannoch mission.

And as an aside, know who DID use poison gas to murder millions?  The Geth.  Know who DID use death camps?  The Reapers, the people the Geth joined.  So who is the apologist now? 

Modifié par justafan, 22 avril 2013 - 06:07 .

[Twisted Path]

My renegade Shepard thought he did the right thing and would have done the same in his shoes, so no, didn't punch Gerrel.

Speaking of which it always annoyed me when you have the sparring match with Vega that renegade Shepard can't say "Nice job ramming that shuttle. I would have done the same thing." Renegade Shepard is all about reckless stunts and getting the job done no matter what. Getting mad at someone who does the same thing makes her a massive hypocrite.