150 réponses à ce sujet

[PillingPower]

I wonder, given the timing of the announcement, whether the rising of fandom against the ME 3 ending provoked a panic at Bioware that led to the announcement regarding the ending of DA 2 DLC or expansion? With regard to such a 'wiping the slate clean', I cannot believe the two aren't linked. Was the DA design team still working on the expansion two weeks ago?
I think we should be told.

[Plaintiff]

They're completely unrelated franchises developed by completely unrelated teams. So no.

I don't think irrational fan-baw constitutes a 'rebellion', and I don't think Bioware is required to tell us anything. They didn't take anything away from us. We didn't have the expansion before, we don't have it now. Nothing has changed.

Modifié par Plaintiff, 20 mars 2012 - 11:26 .

[LegendaryBlade]

No, separate teams. The only connection ME3's ending has had is an article where they said that after the fuss with ME3's ending they're going to make sure to get DA3's right

[bEVEsthda]

It's simple: DA2 dlc didn't sell. There's roughly zero interest for anything DA2 related, outside the die-hards on this forum. Bioware drawing the right kinds of conclusions from this, is the hope for DA3 and the DA franchise.

Modifié par bEVEsthda, 20 mars 2012 - 11:36 .

[PillingPower]

Different studios but same owners and customer base.

I repeat my question: was DA 2 dlc or an expansion being worked on two weeks ago?

[Plaguemaster]

Not a rebellion, but widespread dissatisfaction. But this may point BioWare that this time fandom that already was highly disappointed by DA2 quality and screwed its sales will be even more sceptical towards DA3 and they should do their work properly and stop attempts to create a "RPG for CoD crowd".

[David Gaider]

It's simple: DA2 dlc didn't sell.

That's not true, sorry.

There's roughly zero interest for anything DA2 related, outside the die-hards on this forum. Bioware drawing the right kinds of conclusions from this, is the hope for DA3 and the DA franchise.

Please keep in mind that, even though you're hearing about the DA decision now, it was not made just recently. So the Mass Effect ending brouhaha is unrelated.

While I'm certain there are many who'll draw their own conclusions as to BioWare's motivations, really it boils down to what Mark Darrah (our Executive Producer-- my boss's boss and the man in charge of DA) already said: in order to work on the expansion we'd have needed to split our efforts. While moving on is always a bit difficult, sometime's it's for the best.

[bEVEsthda]

David Gaider wrote...

It's simple: DA2 dlc didn't sell.

That's not true, sorry.

Of course it's not true! - Sorry, my mistake.

Let me rephrase that:
It's simple: DA2 dlc didn't sell well enough.

[Darth Death]

David Gaider wrote...

While moving on is always a bit difficult, sometime's it's for the best.

Just move in the direction that made BioWare games great initially. You'll be surprise how simplistic peoples demands are. When you step away from that, only disappointment follows. 

Modifié par Darth Death, 20 mars 2012 - 02:42 .

[Itsgoodtobe]

Darth Death wrote...

David Gaider wrote...

While moving on is always a bit difficult, sometime's it's for the best.

Just move in the direction that made BioWare games great initially. You'll be surprise how simplistic peoples demands are. When you step away from that only disappointment follows. 

What this man said - we are simple like that We dont want anything you havn't given us before! Im so happy I saved Asunder though it makes it easier to deal with the dragon age cravings while im waiting for a no.3 or whatever the future holds.

[PillingPower]

Many thanks for replying David and clearing up my suspicions.

I must admit that I for one think it's a shame and a mistake, that Hawke's story will not be resolved fully through gameplay - it lacks closure now.

[David Gaider]

PillingPower wrote...
I must admit that I for one think it's a shame and a mistake, that Hawke's story will not be resolved fully through gameplay - it lacks closure now.

I wish it was otherwise, myself, but when it comes to story design in game development no plan ever survives contact with the enemy. There's always a balance between what you want to do and what you have to do... and, honestly, what often happens is that thing you really didn't want to do turns out to be the better route in the end. Which is frustrating as hell, but serendipity's a **** like that.

So we'll move on and try to make it work, and hopefully the sacrifice will come with some payoff-- as in a payoff for the fans, of DA2 as well as the series in general, when they eventually see what that sacrifice was for.

Modifié par David Gaider, 20 mars 2012 - 03:14 .

[Ystitans78]

Is it fair to say that I think everyone should wait and see what you guys have in store for the next dragon age game before eveyone "now the story lacks closure." There is another dragon age game coming it's not like Bioware said "we are canceling the dragon age series." Yes DA2 had a cliff-hanger ending so do lots of other games and movies my point is the story isn't over yet. Finally yes we now know that an expansion for DA2 was canceled but these things happen all the time the general pupblic usually doesn't get to find out about these things unless the company decides to tell us. I'm sure that it was alot of factors that lead to this decision and not just any one thing.

Modifié par Ystitans78, 20 mars 2012 - 03:28 .

[Darth Death]

David Gaider wrote...

PillingPower wrote...
I must admit that I for one think it's a shame and a mistake, that Hawke's story will not be resolved fully through gameplay - it lacks closure now.

I wish it was otherwise, myself, but when it comes to story design in game development no plan ever survives contact with the enemy. There's always a balance between what you want to do and what you have to do... and, honestly, what often happens is that thing you really didn't want to do turns out to be the better route in the end. Which is frustrating as hell, but serendipity's a **** like that.

So we'll move on and try to make it work, and hopefully the sacrifice will come with some payoff-- as in a payoff for the fans, of DA2 as well as the series in general, when they eventually see what that sacrifice was for.

I see this as a problem. What you have to do is what you need to do, and what you need to do is not what fans want you to do. LOL worded weirdly, but what I'm saying is give fans what they want & not what you think they need. As a business, you're trying to satisfy your costumers. Don't deprive them. If the majority are asking for something, satisfy them with it. BioWare's perspective of what fans need conflicts with what fans want.

Modifié par Darth Death, 20 mars 2012 - 03:35 .

[grumpyboobyhead]

David Gaider wrote...

I wish it was otherwise, myself, but when it comes to story design in game development no plan ever survives contact with the enemy. There's always a balance between what you want to do and what you have to do... and, honestly, what often happens is that thing you really didn't want to do turns out to be the better route in the end. Which is frustrating as hell, but serendipity's a **** like that.

So we'll move on and try to make it work, and hopefully the sacrifice will come with some payoff-- as in a payoff for the fans, of DA2 as well as the series in general, when they eventually see what that sacrifice was for.

Well, it's a tremendous shame.
I've heard a lot of positive comments on the DA 2 DLC and was hoping that'd assure the higher-ups that DA2 still is profitable as long as the right choices are made when making the story. (Environment, Characters and good cutscenes ETC.)
I personally hope somehow that the fanbase gets to at least have some closure, personally I wouldn't mind seeing it attached to the beginning of DA: 3 (if it's being made) in the form of a comic book, in the style of ME 2 but with the final days or months of Hawke's story.

Well anyway about the ME 3 ending having an effect on it, no.

It's a recent event and they're 2 seperate teams as indicated...

[Augustei]

My only real worry is that we will not get to see any more of the free marches because of this decision.. We only got to see one city state, a temple and a small estate in the forest =(

[David Gaider]

Darth Death wrote...
I see this as a problem. What you have to do is what you need to do, and what you need to do is not what fans want you to do. LOL worded weirdly, but what I'm saying is give fans what they want & not what you think they need. As a business, you're trying to satisfy your costumers. Don't deprive them. If the majority are asking for something, satisfy them with it. BioWare's perspective of what fans need conflicts with what fans want.

Well, this is also a problem. It's not always about doing what the fans "need" -- I know that's how you interpreted my statement, but sometimes it's about what the project needs or the company needs. Which makes a fan's face scrunch up, I know, because they hate to think about what we do as being a business... but it is, in addition to being a creative endeavour.

Even when it does come to what the fans need/want... which fans? I know someone could respond to that by saying "us, the ones here on the forums"... but I don't think it's a stretch to say that there is no unison in that opinion. It's not a singular thing, even among those most committed (either for or against). So spending all our time trying to discern a single opinion to that is counter-productive.

Which is not to say we can't get the gist... or several gists, really. And once we do, we'll need to figure out where we need to go, simply because we can't spend all our time trying to follow the vagaries of fan opinion, either. There comes a point where the fan needs to decide for himself or herself whether what we're making is of interest to them, rather than tilting at windmills for the sake of something that cannot happen. But I get why they'd do it (I'd probably do it as well, in their position), and we should and do appreciate the investment... and would be stupid to disregard well-intended advice in any case. So I don't think we'll do that.

Or I hope not. Some decisions are not mine to make.

[ScotGaymer]

Personally I am very dissapointed because I enjoyed DA2 for the most part in spite of its flaws (some glaringly bad) but felt that the game really needed a proper full content expansion to sort out its more egregious flaws. Or at least a toolset to let us fans do it.

It's a real shame that this is not going to happen because Hawke has a lot of potential to be one of the best Protagonists Bioware has ever created. And now that potential will never be realised.

It also means that i wont be getting the DLC because without the expansion I dont really see the point in investing in them.

Someone tell EA to put David Gaider in charge of Bioware lol.

[David Gaider]

sjpelkessjpeler wrote...
Thanks for your reply David.
The only thing that bothers me about it is that it's still extremely vague. The only thing I read between the lines that you for one wanted the expansion but you're not allowed to make any more comments on where Bioware is taking the DA story.

Of course I wanted the expansion to happen. This wouldn't be the first time I didn't get what I want, however, and I'm sure it won't be the last. That's just the way it is. I've had my mourning period already, and as usual I move on and work with what I have. That's my job.

We can't comment on the expansion's story, however, because some elements of that story will be carried forward. Have to be, really. As for where we're going with DA in general, I'm not allowed to say more. It'd be nice if I could take you all into confidence and discuss things frankly, but not only is that not allowed when it comes to unannounced projects, it might also not be the best idea on the whole... at least, not until we're in a position to actually show you what we mean. Once that happens, I think the discussion can move from vagueness into more specifics. What's nice is that I believe Mike and Mark are committed towards having more open discussion in general.

[David Gaider]

FitScotGaymer wrote...
Someone tell EA to put David Gaider in charge of Bioware lol.

Well, if you see how some of the fans react, you'd think they believe I already am. Or, at least, that it's writers who determine the entirety of a project's shape. Which is ironic (and not in the Alanis Morisette sense), but there you go. I've no need to be in charge of anything, thank you, as then I wouldn't be able to work as a creator. But thanks for the vote of confidence.

[Darth Krytie]

David Gaider wrote...

Even when it does come to what the fans need/want... which fans? I know someone could respond to that by saying "us, the ones here on the forums"... but I don't think it's a stretch to say that there is no unison in that opinion. It's not a singular thing, even among those most committed (either for or against). So spending all our time trying to discern a single opinion to that is counter-productive.

This. This so so much. Every single time someone invokes the "fan" wants/needs/desires, I seriously get annoyed  because there is no consensus on it and most of the time, whatever it is they're claiming "all the fans want" isn't really what I want in a game.

I feel this especially when people invoke "what the fans want" in regards to eliminating LGBT content. I keep thinking, "stop talking for me, please."  (I like being represented, plzkthnx)

Modifié par Darth Krytie, 20 mars 2012 - 04:32 .

[Costin_Razvan]

I'd imagine that major decisions are taken between the leads of the various departments with the executive producer having the final say? I'm curios if you could tell us anything about that Mr. Gaider.

Modifié par Costin_Razvan, 20 mars 2012 - 04:33 .