150 réponses à ce sujet

[FieryDove]

renjility wrote...


As I said, I don't mind the idea of a character moving onto a new story, but the way it was done felt cheap somehow. Remove the part with Leliana, and it would have been fine. Not a great ending perhaps, but fine. It would have seemed more finished, because throwing in this big mysterious new plot thing actually collides with "wondering what a character is going to do next". It interferes with what the player could come up with what the character would do, because apparently the writers of the game have something specific in mind, something that connects the Warden and Hawke, some kind of big abduction mystery or something like that. I don't mind the idea of that. Great if you have an exciting plan, but I do mind that it is so suddenly thrown in at the very end of the game, screaming FIND OUT WHAT IS GOING ON BY BUYING DA3 at me.

10000x this^^^^^

[deamon deathstone1]

Meh, I don`t mind waiting for a DA3 as long as the ending doesn`t involve me chosing between killing all Darkspawn, becoming their leader or everybody becomes half Darkspawn and nomatter what choice you make you blow up the Deep Roads

[Silfren]

Shadow of Light Dragon wrote...

Silfen wrote...

I don't know any writer of fiction, fantasy or otherwise, who interviews their readers and writes their plots precisely with fan preference in mind.

You might be surprised how many contemporary authors allow their stories to be influenced by their readers. Interviews though? Probably not.

It's unwise to compare a book to an interactive cRPG anyway, as one medium requires direct participation that tangibly influences how the story unfolds and what characters do and how characters react to your input, while the other does not -- the story always progresses in the same way in the same order of events every time.

It's Bioware's prerogative to tell the story however they like and the only input fans have the right to is whether to buy it or not.

"Yes" to the first, "ORLY?" to the second. I thought we had a right to say what we like and don't like, what we think works and what we think doesn't. I do that to books too, but don't expect them to be rewritten. I do want to like the next book though.

Giving your opinion on the work is one thing.  Thinking that you have the right to have a say in how the story goes, however, is another which is what I meant by fans having input.

[Sylvianus]

What is the difference ? Is it really important anyways ? If you give your opinion about what you'd want in the story, you are also thinking you have the right to have a say in how and where their story goes.

When you say ' please bioware no warden in DA3, please bioware I want to continue the story with Hawk. Bioware, I want more about templar / mage conflict, I want the return of Morrigan, yes you are thinking you have the right to have a say in their work and their projects. Because who know what they want ? Nobody, so obviously, we interfere with their own plans. Everyday, fans voice their opinion, even about the story.

So can we really say, " fans have only the right to buy a game. " ? Does it really matter, when obviously they voice their opinion  everyday whether they have this right or not ?

". Please, Bioware, I want a human as bad guy, no more arch-demon, etc etc. I hope DA3 won't be anymore about the blight. I want to go to Orlais, etc " " Bioware's stories are too cliche, it would be more interesting if the next PC was like Hawk or the Warden , or if it was about politics. " They should, they need, they must. That's not good if they.... I won't be interested in DA3 Bioware if Hawk comes back again. etc "

" I'd like closure to my hawk, ( when they don't feel themself the need to do more. ) Also, when fans are asking to see Cassandra or varric as LI, regardless of what Bioware want, yes it is the same thing.

It isn't about right, or not right, this has little meaning. Giving your opinion, ( in every area ), negative or positive is also about saying how you'd want a story to go. And fans will be always free to say whatever they want to say, will be always free to ask whatever they want to ask, no matter how it depleases you or Bioware. ( and me too ) That's just the reality.

Bioware or any other company isn't  forced to listen, they can ignore their demands. Like you said, that's their prerogative, and they can tell to their fan, no, no and no and go to ********. to everything they say. But if fans want to say this or that, they can do it and they will do it. " Fans have only the right to buy a game " ! Yeah. That's just bull****.

Don't make a forum if you don't want to see fans asking for everything. Because yes, that is what they do. Even for the story, they think they can have a say.. You can listen or no.

Bioware could decide to do the same thing as leliana's case, because they like that, some fans will be pissed off again, and again , they will ask that they stop to do this nonsense for their stories.

If Bioware really wants to end this, to prove that fans have only one right, they can close this forum. You comparison with books doesn't hold water, because, they decided to link to their fans, and their fans are linked to them, for the better or the worst.

Modifié par Sylvianus, 24 mars 2012 - 11:55 .

[Realmzmaster]

Everyone has the right to voice their opinion. Everyone can make demands. It does not mean they have to be implemented. Bioware can listen to a thousand opinions and select only a hand full. Bioware can listen to all the demands and implemented only those that fit the game and story. We have a right to voice opinion and make demands. Bioware has the right to implement those that work with in the context and make decisions where the fanbase is divided.

[JimmyTheProthean]

I personally think Dragon Age 2 would have been good as a spinoff game and would have maybe gotten a better reception from the fans if it was.
Also i think Sten is going to be the Wrex of Dragon age helping to re-organising the Qunari in Dragon age 3 as the current Arishok is an arrogant piece of ''''.

And Mr.Gaider, thank you and your fellows for making the elves irish and welsh they sound great keep that in Dragon age 3. And voice the maker in dragon age 3 as you are basically the maker
just taught i put that out there.

[Nurot]

David Gaider wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...
That's really all the closure I need.

Without implying anything about the people involved, I think when people say "I need closure" they're not really all talking about the same thing. Some people seem to refer to closure as "I still have questions" or "there still seems to be things my character could do"... in which case I'm not sure there's any ending other than death which would actually give them the closure they seek. Perhaps not even then.

Regardless, it's not invalid as they're clearly feeling like things aren't "finished", but it's one of those things I'm not sure can (or should necessarily) be addressed. It also doesn't help when it's one of those terms (like "cliche") which often get used by people who mean entirely different things when using it.

About closure. You are probably right when you say that it means different things to different people. As for me, I loved the ending and never once felt that it was a cliffhanger. It was a very natural ending of the game and it tied everything together so nicely. The best part about it was that it made me reevaluate all the things that had happened in the game, right back to the very begining in the deep roads. It blew my mind and I was walking on clouds for days. I told my sister that it felt like reading a book by George RR Martin and I still maintain this.

So why did I not feel like I had closure on my Hawkes when you announced the end of DA2 the other day? I will try to explain, although I am not entirely sure that I understand my own feelings about this completely.

If no expansion or DLC had been released I would probably not have this issue at all. The ending did imply that Hawke would have more adventures in the future, but the backlash against the game at its release made me think that there would be no DLC at all. But I was (happily) wrong about this and the DLC was very well received (considering all the hate for the main game). After MotA I was feeling really positive about more DLC for the game and I was 99% sure that there was an expansion (or at least a very long DLC) in the works. My Hawkes were no longer closed books and hadn't really been since the release of Legacy. My Hawkes were now just done with the first acts in the book and I was happily awaiting the next acts. That was why it was such a hard blow to find out several months after MotA, that there wouldn't be anymore story for them after all. Especially after reading several times about how Hawkes story is not over yet, on these boards.

I think I will describe my feelings like this. You are reading a very good book, a book with several acts that are sort of self contained but still play off each other. You have this last act in the book left to read and you have been patiently waiting for an opportunity to do so. Suddenly someone snatches the book away from you. They try to soften the blow by saying "Hey, you will soon have the next book in the series". But how does that help you, if you still feel that you haven't finished book 1... If I had thougt from the beginning that act 3 in the book was the last, I would not feel this way. But it is difficult to go back to thinking act 3 was the last (in this metaphorical book and in the game) after believing for so long that it wasn't.

I know you can't see the future and you probably did not know that the expansion would be canceled. But it would have worked better if you had announced the end of DA2 with a short DLC (like at the time you released MotA). I seem to remeber you saying that witch hunt was the last DAO DLC when you released it, but I may be misremebering. That way I could have finished up the character in my head at the same time I finished up the DLC. It is difficult for me to go back and close a character with nothing to close the character with. I need something to "support" my imagination. I am not author material after all.

I know you wont release anymore DA2 related content, but a few epilogue slides (a la DAO) would be nice. They could be written as if Varric was telling them to someone.

[Silfren]

Realmzmaster wrote...

Everyone has the right to voice their opinion. Everyone can make demands. It does not mean they have to be implemented. Bioware can listen to a thousand opinions and select only a hand full. Bioware can listen to all the demands and implemented only those that fit the game and story. We have a right to voice opinion and make demands. Bioware has the right to implement those that work with in the context and make decisions where the fanbase is divided.

Eh, no.  Nobody has the right to make demands.  

Sure, I suppose, since you have the ABILITY to write them, it falls under the category of free speech, but I think this is getting into a case of semantics and muddying the waters of what making demands is, which is to say it's a matter of having a serious entitlement complex.   Bioware does not owe it to any fan to write the stories the fans want to participate in.  We fans have no right to demand that Bioware write the stories we want to play. 

We have the right to complain, and to choose not to buy the product, but that's a separate issue. 

[esper]

Sylvianus wrote...

What is the difference ? Is it really important anyways ? If you give your opinion about what you'd want in the story, you are also thinking you have the right to have a say in how and where their story goes.

When you say ' please bioware no warden in DA3, please bioware I want to continue the story with Hawk. Bioware, I want more about templar / mage conflict, I want the return of Morrigan, yes you are thinking you have the right to have a say in their work and their projects. Because who know what they want ? Nobody, so obviously, we interfere with their own plans. Everyday, fans voice their opinion, even about the story.

So can we really say, " fans have only the right to buy a game. " ? Does it really matter, when obviously they voice their opinion  everyday whether they have this right or not ?

". Please, Bioware, I want a human as bad guy, no more arch-demon, etc etc. I hope DA3 won't be anymore about the blight. I want to go to Orlais, etc " " Bioware's stories are too cliche, it would be more interesting if the next PC was like Hawk or the Warden , or if it was about politics. " They should, they need, they must. That's not good if they.... I won't be interested in DA3 Bioware if Hawk comes back again. etc "

" I'd like closure to my hawk, ( when they don't feel themself the need to do more. ) Also, when fans are asking to see Cassandra or varric as LI, regardless of what Bioware want, yes it is the same thing.

It isn't about right, or not right, this has little meaning. Giving your opinion, ( in every area ), negative or positive is also about saying how you'd want a story to go. And fans will be always free to say whatever they want to say, will be always free to ask whatever they want to ask, no matter how it depleases you or Bioware. ( and me too ) That's just the reality.

Bioware or any other company isn't  forced to listen, they can ignore their demands. Like you said, that's their prerogative, and they can tell to their fan, no, no and no and go to ********. to everything they say. But if fans want to say this or that, they can do it and they will do it. " Fans have only the right to buy a game " ! Yeah. That's just bull****.

Don't make a forum if you don't want to see fans asking for everything. Because yes, that is what they do. Even for the story, they think they can have a say.. You can listen or no.

Bioware could decide to do the same thing as leliana's case, because they like that, some fans will be pissed off again, and again , they will ask that they stop to do this nonsense for their stories.

If Bioware really wants to end this, to prove that fans have only one right, they can close this forum. You comparison with books doesn't hold water, because, they decided to link to their fans, and their fans are linked to them, for the better or the worst.

Actually author's of poplar books are linked to their fans too. I am sure that Rowling got a lot of fanmails. Just as there are people on the internet saying that this and this and than event should not have happened in Harry Potter because it breaks the books logic (or rather it break the logic they percieved in the book, but of course their perception is the right one). Now I don't know if Rowling changed anything on her original idea of Harry Potter do to fan pressure  - I hope not, but I know and older example where it did happen.

Dickens who wrote (I am unsure of the english word) but whose story when they came out where mostly where published in newspapers one bit at a time which proberly had something to do with the fan demand. But none the less Great Expectations have three different canon endnings because people didn't like the original one. So it happens with books as well.

[Nathan Redgrave]

This quickly? Doubtful. If they were planning or working on further DLC, they wouldn't just drop what they'd invested in and take a loss and the sound of a pin... hell, they'd probably try to put more into it, get some good press from it to make up for the bad press elsewhere. At least then there'd be a return on the investment. At the least they'd take some time to think about it before pulling the plug.

It's a pity we're not getting more adventures for Hawke; I was hoping for something akin to Awakening, some larger sequel story possibly with new party members and stuff. I acknowledge DA2's flaws, but the only reason I haven't bought Legacy or Mark of the Assassin yet is mainly, well, lack of money. What I've seen of them so far looks pretty sweet.

Modifié par Nathan Redgrave, 26 mars 2012 - 08:34 .

[ReshyShira]

No, DA2 was released before ME3. The distaste of DA2 was always there.

[pikey1969]

It wasn't anywhere near as bad as this though.

[Emzamination]

pikey1969 wrote...

It wasn't anywhere near as bad as this though.

Your right, the reason for this is the dragon age writers had the good sense to provide some sense of closure in the form of a epilogue which is a crucial ingredient to any rpg's conclusion.

[FedericoV]

I would have liked an expansion: not so much for the closure but because it could have made justice to the potential of DA2, allowing fixes to many of the most prominent shortcomings of the game (considering what we have seen in the DLCs the direction was promising).

But as a fan of DA, I understand and approve the decision to move on: it's better a big and huge game that is polished like Origins (I know, it will be different than Origins, I'm just talking about the nature of the project) than having two games like DA:A and DA2 (good on paper but with average execution due to lack of time/resources).

Lession for future games: do not keep your cards too close to the chest and use most of the assets you can because fan will forget the closure of most storylines the second they finished the quest and rage about more open ones even if very few and very thin. I know I did with ME3.

[The_11thDoctor]

COnfident the y just want to focus on making 3. DA2 is dead. time to move on and get all the cool stuff from Asunder on in the games.

[CARL_DF90]

If it helps Mr. Gaider I for one appreciate the time you take to answer questions and respond to people on the forums. It means a lot to be sure. As for what you have been saying during the course of this thread I completely understand it in the long run if it helps the eventual sequal than it doesn't bother. Some people would question the wisdom of the timing of such a statement. Me? I figure it had something to do more with internal resource juggling and decision making than anything else. Thank you very much for you time and efforts. It does not go unnoticed.

[philippe willaume]

David Gaider wrote...

renjility wrote...
The ending felt more unfinished due to Leliana's remark about the Warden and Hawke both disappearing, which is apparently "no coincidence". That turned the ending more into an odd and unexpected cliffhanger, raising a little too many questions for many people.

Sure, but the existence of questions-- even new ones-- does not mean an ending has not occurred. Characters do move off into the sunset, their lives not quite finished and going onto other adventures outside of the narrative... being personally invested in that tale, and left wondering what those "other adventures" might be, is understandable (and complimentary). Not complete closure, sure... but then again I'm not certain "complete closure" is always required.

Just my opinion, of course. I don't think there's an accepted route for this sort of tale, especially considering the differences between this sort of story and a regular one.

Hello david
no complete closure is not required, but like in fencing with longsword you need to make sure that immediate lines of attack/counter are closed enough.
It is not where the story goes, it is what BW does to make us understand how it got there.

DA:2 or ME:3 problems are not linked with the creative side. It is mainly the actual exposition and contextualisation of the creative side of each series endings that is in cause.
it just like a poorly constructed / delivered  attack in fencing, you will hit your opponent but he still hit you with his attack or counter


There are really two aspects to leiliana’s comment, “hawke and the warden disappearance not being a coincidence.”
Yes it creates a new question and create a cliff hanger as to where we are going from now.
But it creates as well the question why did Hawke left Kirkwall in the first place?

Can we call the departure from Kirwall a cliff hanger or moving on in the sunset? Or is it a random unexplained event that may or may not makes sense according to the story we have been told so far.
The type of story has really nothing to do with that.  The direct influence is how that event is put into context.


For  exemple I think ME3 endings are fine as they stand, artistically speaking. However even if you can pick up the path that makes enough sense with a few given play-through, The other choices available will not makes sense with that play through and there are play through where none of the possible ending  will makes sense.
So there are too many unanswered question as to how we ended up here as opposed to where it leads
 
To be more DA:2 related, if you take Orsino when you side with the mage, you can only pause and go WTF when he goes Massey Fergusson on you. The issue is not that he does go dolaly, you, as in BW, are the one telling us the story and you get that story where you want , and it is BW’s job to make sure that critical action are put in context either before or after.  That goes hand in hand.
 
So for Orsino, either a quick shot with a dead student and or plenty of templar coming in the background. (Merdith works fine because of the deep road in act I and what is said during the encounter.)
 
It is the same for the Kirkwall departure, all it needs is exposition and context. That exposition and context can be built on what happen during the play through.
For example a part of the population wants to sel you out to the chantrey forces coming to Kirkwall because you where to friendly to the Quun or hake could not see the town suffer another attack or whatever we don’t have to make up ourselves to makes sense of the departure.
I mean even having Varric listing a series of reason without giving one in particular would do the trick or chose a dialogue option fro him curing the epilogue.
 
phil

Modifié par philippe willaume, 30 mars 2012 - 11:12 .

[kingtigernz]

Taritu wrote...

You promise one thing and you deliver another (Hawke's choices matter - the promise/ no they don't -- the reality) and it will always cause problems. ME3 is finding this out, bigtime.

DA3 really needs to be good for the sake of the franchise. Step 1, don't cram the development time too short. Step 2, align expectations with the actual product.

Truer words have never been spoken.I'm just about at my wits end with the sheer volume of lies Bioware has been spinning of late.For the sake of the franchise I hope the development time is not as laughable as DA2s.

[Emzamination]

kingtigernz wrote...

Taritu wrote...

You promise one thing and you deliver another (Hawke's choices matter - the promise/ no they don't -- the reality) and it will always cause problems. ME3 is finding this out, bigtime.

DA3 really needs to be good for the sake of the franchise. Step 1, don't cram the development time too short. Step 2, align expectations with the actual product.

Truer words have never been spoken.I'm just about at my wits end with the sheer volume of lies Bioware has been spinning of late.For the sake of the franchise I hope the development time is not as laughable as DA2s.

I never will understand this "we need to get it out by the holidays" crap...this isn't 1972 but the problem Is not so much time as it is content cutting for me.I think developers should call in real fans (No not gaming magazine reporters) to test every piece content BEFORE they cut ANYTHING.

[Realmzmaster]

Emzamination wrote...

kingtigernz wrote...

Taritu wrote...

You promise one thing and you deliver another (Hawke's choices matter - the promise/ no they don't -- the reality) and it will always cause problems. ME3 is finding this out, bigtime.

DA3 really needs to be good for the sake of the franchise. Step 1, don't cram the development time too short. Step 2, align expectations with the actual product.

Truer words have never been spoken.I'm just about at my wits end with the sheer volume of lies Bioware has been spinning of late.For the sake of the franchise I hope the development time is not as laughable as DA2s.

I never will understand this "we need to get it out by the holidays" crap...this isn't 1972 but the problem Is not so much time as it is content cutting for me.I think developers should call in real fans (No not gaming magazine reporters) to test every piece content BEFORE they cut ANYTHING.

How do you define real fans? Because if the real fans are the ones here there are vastly differing opinions.

Modifié par Realmzmaster, 31 mars 2012 - 10:26 .

[Emzamination]

Realmzmaster wrote...

Emzamination wrote...

kingtigernz wrote...

Taritu wrote...

You promise one thing and you deliver another (Hawke's choices matter - the promise/ no they don't -- the reality) and it will always cause problems. ME3 is finding this out, bigtime.

DA3 really needs to be good for the sake of the franchise. Step 1, don't cram the development time too short. Step 2, align expectations with the actual product.

Truer words have never been spoken.I'm just about at my wits end with the sheer volume of lies Bioware has been spinning of late.For the sake of the franchise I hope the development time is not as laughable as DA2s.

I never will understand this "we need to get it out by the holidays" crap...this isn't 1972 but the problem Is not so much time as it is content cutting for me.I think developers should call in real fans (No not gaming magazine reporters) to test every piece content BEFORE they cut ANYTHING.

How do you define real fans? Because if the real fans are the ones here there are vastly differing opinions.

The people that play for love and loyalty to the franchise are real fans, not some guy getting a paycheck testing games for a living or some GI reporter waing to get paid from his/her editor for writing a review.Bioware has started testing this particular fan/dev communion with the ToR They invited a bunch of in game guild leaders from around the world to discuss new content ideas and improvements with the devs.All gaming developers should take this path.

[Realmzmaster]

Emzamination wrote...

Realmzmaster wrote...

Emzamination wrote...

kingtigernz wrote...

Taritu wrote...

You promise one thing and you deliver another (Hawke's choices matter - the promise/ no they don't -- the reality) and it will always cause problems. ME3 is finding this out, bigtime.

DA3 really needs to be good for the sake of the franchise. Step 1, don't cram the development time too short. Step 2, align expectations with the actual product.

Truer words have never been spoken.I'm just about at my wits end with the sheer volume of lies Bioware has been spinning of late.For the sake of the franchise I hope the development time is not as laughable as DA2s.

I never will understand this "we need to get it out by the holidays" crap...this isn't 1972 but the problem Is not so much time as it is content cutting for me.I think developers should call in real fans (No not gaming magazine reporters) to test every piece content BEFORE they cut ANYTHING.

How do you define real fans? Because if the real fans are the ones here there are vastly differing opinions.

The people that play for love and loyalty to the franchise are real fans, not some guy getting a paycheck testing games for a living or some GI reporter waing to get paid from his/her editor for writing a review.Bioware has started testing this particular fan/dev communion with the ToR They invited a bunch of in game guild leaders from around the world to discuss new content ideas and improvements with the devs.All gaming developers should take this path.

So you mean like gamers on this forum who sometimes cannot even agree to disagree and may not be objective in the evaluation of the product. If you are a vetran of crpgs how are those gamers going to put themselves in the role of a newbie or novice to the genre?
The other problem is the personal bias that gamers bring with them.  A gamer who thinks that voice is a deal breaker is going to grade the game differently from one who thinks that voice adds to the equation. Unless the pool of beta testers is diverse enough to offset the extremes in opinion. How do you reconcile the gamer who likes the stat heavy tactical system verus the tthe lighter more streamlined system with a need for a touch of physical reflexes?

Real fans have a tendency not to take off the blinders of personal bias.

Also many gamers do not know what alpha and beta testing involves and it is not just examining content. It means keeping a detailed log or all efrors, bugs and problems that occur. The log is then sent in weekly or more often. The bugs are then iron out . A update is sent to the tester who tests the update in the game to see if it breaks anything. The tester will be playing and completeing the game many times. It is not a task for the faint of heart.

Modifié par Realmzmaster, 01 avril 2012 - 04:40 .

[Arivle]

Well for me it's pretty sad, even though I don't think it's related. ME3 ending pretty much robbed me of any will to play those series anymore and DA2 (which I was among those few who liked it, even though not as much as DA1) got cancelled. While I think Hawke's story was destined for expansions since it didn't end at all and in the heat of newly risen mages-templars war it could been a very interesting journey.

Modifié par Arivle, 01 avril 2012 - 04:31 .

[Emzamination]

Realmzmaster wrote...

So you mean like gamers on this forum who sometimes cannot even agree to disagree and may not be objective in the evaluation of the product. If you are a vetran of crpgs how are those gamers going to put themselves in the role of a newbie or novice to the genre?
The other problem is the personal bias that gamers bring with them.  A gamer who thinks that voice is a deal breaker is going to grade the game differently from one who thinks that voice adds to the equation. Unless the pool of beta testers is diverse enough to offset the extremes in opinion. How do you reconcile the gamer who likes the stat heavy tactical system verus the tthe lighter more streamlined system with a need for a touch of physical reflexes?

Real fans have a tendency not to take off the blinders of personal bias.

Also many gamers do not know what alpha and beta testing involves and it is not just examining content. It means keeping a detailed log or all efrors, bugs and problems that occur. The log is then sent in weekly or more often. The bugs are then iron out . A update is sent to the tester who tests the update in the game to see if it breaks anything. The tester will be playing and completeing the game many times. It is not a task for the faint of heart.

I disagree with your assesment, if put into an enviorment where their opinions actually carried a little weight many gamers could look past their bias and agree on a common goal.I'm not saying there won't be some stubborn hold outs but then again every jury has them, what matters is the majority vote and yes I realize that kind of vote never makes "every" soul happy but then again neither does any democratic vote.

As far as checking for errors, you must not remember Da2's release.The people on this forum were the ones who sacrificed blood,sweat,energy,time and and tears to find and report the bugs that should've been spotted by the initial testers.Time to get new testers maybe?

P.s Yes I realize those last lines might of been a bit dramatic but when you have a point to prove, its a necessary evil

[Realmzmaster]

Emzamination wrote...

Realmzmaster wrote...

So you mean like gamers on this forum who sometimes cannot even agree to disagree and may not be objective in the evaluation of the product. If you are a vetran of crpgs how are those gamers going to put themselves in the role of a newbie or novice to the genre?
The other problem is the personal bias that gamers bring with them.  A gamer who thinks that voice is a deal breaker is going to grade the game differently from one who thinks that voice adds to the equation. Unless the pool of beta testers is diverse enough to offset the extremes in opinion. How do you reconcile the gamer who likes the stat heavy tactical system verus the tthe lighter more streamlined system with a need for a touch of physical reflexes?

Real fans have a tendency not to take off the blinders of personal bias.

Also many gamers do not know what alpha and beta testing involves and it is not just examining content. It means keeping a detailed log or all efrors, bugs and problems that occur. The log is then sent in weekly or more often. The bugs are then iron out . A update is sent to the tester who tests the update in the game to see if it breaks anything. The tester will be playing and completeing the game many times. It is not a task for the faint of heart.

I disagree with your assesment, if put into an enviorment where their opinions actually carried a little weight many gamers could look past their bias and agree on a common goal.I'm not saying there won't be some stubborn hold outs but then again every jury has them, what matters is the majority vote and yes I realize that kind of vote never makes "every" soul happy but then again neither does any democratic vote.

As far as checking for errors, you must not remember Da2's release.The people on this forum were the ones who sacrificed blood,sweat,energy,time and and tears to find and report the bugs that should've been spotted by the initial testers.Time to get new testers maybe?

P.s Yes I realize those last lines might of been a bit dramatic but when you have a point to prove, its a necessary evil

The gaming public always finds bugs the testers missed. Remember what happen with DAO's release and Awakening. Remember the Silverite mine bugs which happen and did not happen especially on the PC because it depend on what special items your charcater was wearing or the DAO bugs where your party members could sparkle because the sustainables would not turn off during cutscenes along with a host of other errors. The testers will find many of the bugs and errors.

Of couse having more eyes on a game and trying different combinations you are going to find a lot more which is why some companies open up beta testing to the general gaming public. Even then bugs still find there way into the final product. 

New testers maybe needed, but it is not a task everyone is up to and many who think they are find out different real quick.