384 réponses à ce sujet

[Holiday]

 Do you remember the Prothean VI on Thessia that Kai Leng took to the Cerberus station? If you do, then you'd also remember that it was able to discern between people who were indoctrinated and people who weren't. It stated that both the Illusive Man and Kai Leng were indeed indoctrinated, while at the same time, stated that Shepard wasn't indoctrinated. There you go. Indoctrination theory disproven.

[pistolols]

Exactly but they seem to want to explain that off as "Derp he was only indoctrinated a little bit at that point" or something stupid.

Not to mention, c'mon, it's Shepard. He's better than the that. That's the whole point. He doesn't become indoctrinated, he talks indoctrinated people into killing themselves. That's also why the catalyst resorts to pathetic tactics of appearing as a kid and claiming "You can't help me" in the beginning... it's just him trying to subliminally reaffirm to Shepard the same old Reaper rhetoric of "it's useless to resist", etc.

Modifié par pistolols, 20 mars 2012 - 03:50 .

[Mims]

But you could also make the good counter argument of: if the protheans had the technology to accurately predict indoctrination, why did they keep getting infiltrated?

/not for or against the theory.

[TarielMaeda]

IMO he doesn't become indoctrinated, he just gets hit with it and is resisting it. An "indoctrinated" individual is one that has given in. If Shep hasn't given in yet, he's not indoctrinated. The closest he comes to being indoctrinated is on the Citadel with Anderson and TIM.

[KenbroSlice]

Don't feed the trolls, ladies and gentlemen. Move along.

[GBGriffin]

If anything, the fact they basically said they scrapped the idea works better than this argument

[Lakeshow1986]

Shepard wasn't no where near as indoctrinated as TIM or Kai Leng, the VI simply may not have been able to detect it in Shepard. Afterall, the Protheans were subjected to "sleeper agents" that tricked others.

[Avissel]

The only way the Indoc theory would work for me, is if it didn't star in until that last sequence.

TIM started it, and the Reaper God continues it.

Sadly all of Bioware's statementes have proven that it's not true anyway.

[Vhalkyrie]

If the Prothean VI's could detect indoctrination infallibly, no one would have been indoctrinated. Javik also explains they didn't fully understand indoctrination and sleeper agents, which is why they fell. They couldn't detect indoctrination until the subject was in very late stages.  They couldn't detect attempted indoctrination; only those who had been compromised beyond hope.

Modifié par Vhalkyrie, 20 mars 2012 - 02:13 .

[Spectre-61]

Holiday wrote...

 Do you remember the Prothean VI on Thessia that Kai Leng took to the Cerberus station? If you do, then you'd also remember that it was able to discern between people who were indoctrinated and people who weren't. It stated that both the Illusive Man and Kai Leng were indeed indoctrinated, while at the same time, stated that Shepard wasn't indoctrinated. There you go. Indoctrination theory disproven.

The Prothean VI couldn't detect Sheps indoctrination, because the VI only detects Reaper tech in indivduals.

Shepard never has Reaper tech in his body, Kai Leng an TIM have.
That's also why the VI couldn't uncover indoctrinated Protheans at the time.

EDIT: Shep wasn't indoctrinated until harbys blast in London.

Modifié par variobunz, 20 mars 2012 - 02:16 .

[yumesama]

Holiday wrote...

 Do you remember the Prothean VI on Thessia that Kai Leng took to the Cerberus station? If you do, then you'd also remember that it was able to discern between people who were indoctrinated and people who weren't. It stated that both the Illusive Man and Kai Leng were indeed indoctrinated, while at the same time, stated that Shepard wasn't indoctrinated. There you go. Indoctrination theory disproven.

The Theory is that the ending is the actual indoctrination attempt, and IF you wake up in the rubble of londin after it (the "best" ending in the strategy guide"), then you beat the indoctrination. 

If you don't wake up, you've succumbed to the indoctrination illusion, and you let the reaper illusion control your actions from there on out.

The VI says that Shepard isn't indoctrinated because he isn't. He still controls his own actions. Until the indoctrination attempt at the end.

[pistolols]

Vhalkyrie wrote...

If the Prothean VI's could detect indoctrination infallibly, no one would have been indoctrinated. Javik also explains they didn't fully understand indoctrination and sleeper agents, which is why they fell. They couldn't detect indoctrination until the subject was in very late stages.  They couldn't detect attempted indoctrination; only those who had been compromised beyond hope.

Tht is a HUGE stretch with simply no evidence to back it.  It's much more likely that the VI's can detect indoctrination quite fine as this has been established way back in ME1 where Vigil says he doesn't detect it on SHepard and the gang.

[S1at3]

Rabble rabble rabble. This is what it always comes down to.

[Korsriddare]

Indoctrination theory or not, it seems like the Prothean VI can only detect those with Reaper tech implanted in them.

If not, how else would the Protheans have fallen prey to indoctrinated sleeper agents?

[nhsknudsen]

Holiday wrote...

 Do you remember the Prothean VI on Thessia that Kai Leng took to the Cerberus station? If you do, then you'd also remember that it was able to discern between people who were indoctrinated and people who weren't. It stated that both the Illusive Man and Kai Leng were indeed indoctrinated, while at the same time, stated that Shepard wasn't indoctrinated. There you go. Indoctrination theory disproven.

That would be a minor plothole, I could live with that as opposed to those gaping holes we got now.

[kunzite]

yumesama wrote...

The Theory is that the ending is the actual indoctrination attempt, and IF you wake up in the rubble of londin after it (the "best" ending in the strategy guide"), then you beat the indoctrination. 

If you don't wake up, you've succumbed to the indoctrination illusion, and you let the reaper illusion control your actions from there on out.

The VI says that Shepard isn't indoctrinated because he isn't. He still controls his own actions. Until the indoctrination attempt at the end.

So....if you wake up in the rubble, you beat indoctrination, and nothing in the Citadel/Crucible happened. But if you chose the other endings, then you failed, and the illusion is real, and you still do the exact same things you did in the 'beating indoctrination', yet you chose the final option differently. Then....how do you end up back in your body in london, if you still did all the same stuff you did if you failed indoctrination?

[Vhalkyrie]

pistolols wrote...

Vhalkyrie wrote...

If the Prothean VI's could detect indoctrination infallibly, no one would have been indoctrinated. Javik also explains they didn't fully understand indoctrination and sleeper agents, which is why they fell. They couldn't detect indoctrination until the subject was in very late stages.  They couldn't detect attempted indoctrination; only those who had been compromised beyond hope.

Tht is a HUGE stretch with simply no evidence to back it.  It's much more likely that the VI's can detect indoctrination quite fine as this has been established way back in ME1 where Vigil says he doesn't detect it on SHepard and the gang.

No evidence?  The entire "From Ashes" DLC was about it.  Javik's entire crew was indoctrinated.

If you haven't played the DLC, then check the wiki.

http://masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Javik

So if Prothean VI was infallible in detecting the indoctrinated, how the heck did his entire crew become compromised?

[Monochrome Wench]

This again... most versions of the Theory do not have Shepard indoctrinated at that point of the game. Shepard only becomes indoctrinated if you make the wrong choice in the final part of the game

[MrPuschel]

This is also indoctrination! Everything is indoctrinated! My head explode....*BAM*

[annoyingpoodle]

seeing thessia fall broke shepard and that's when the indoctrination started to really take hold. When he was on the cerberus base and talked to the VI the second time it said "security protocols overridden I will comply" which is implying that Shepard is now indoctrinated and the VI would not normally have responded to him.

[BobbyDylan]

I though he didn't get fully indocrinated till the laser hit him. He's currently lying in London, in a subconcouse battle with Harbinger, over his free will.

The Space Magic was just Harbingers way of getting Shepard to relax and lower his defenses.

[Smiley556]

GBGriffin wrote...

If anything, the fact they basically said they scrapped the idea works better than this argument

They scrapped the idea of making the player lose control of shepard partly/fully in gameplay. If anything this confirms that Bioware was atleast thinking about having shepard indoctrinated.

[savionen]

I get the feeling the people that keep bringing up the VI question either didn't have the DLC or just ignored Javik.

The Protheans final stand failed because their VI didn't detect sleeper agents.

[Smiley556]

BobbyDylan wrote...

I though he didn't get fully indocrinated till the laser hit him. He's currently lying in London, in a subconcouse battle with Harbinger, over his free will.

The Space Magic was just Harbingers way of getting Shepard to relax and lower his defenses.

Infact he doesnt get fully indoctrinated untill you choose the synthesis or control option. Anything before that is attempts at indoctrinating shepard. The idea is, if you choose destroy, shepard never becomes fully indoctrinated.

[CavScout]

Vhalkyrie wrote...

No evidence?  The entire "From Ashes" DLC was about it.  Javik's entire crew was indoctrinated.

If you haven't played the DLC, then check the wiki.

http://masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Javik

So if Prothean VI was infallible in detecting the indoctrinated, how the heck did his entire crew become compromised?

The DLC does not address if Javik's crew was exposed to a indoctrinated detecting VI. You're making a leap of logic by concluding that VI + Javik's history means "partial" indoctrinated folks are undetectable by the VI.