384 réponses à ce sujet

[TLK Spires]

Mims wrote...

But you could also make the good counter argument of: if the protheans had the technology to accurately predict indoctrination, why did they keep getting infiltrated?

/not for or against the theory.

why posts kept pouring in after this one is beyond me. 

[soundhole]

Forgomoth wrote...

soundhole wrote...

I don't want to believe it, either.  But use Occam's Razor.  Bioware are just people, sometimes they screw up, whether with writing or logistics.  

Just look at the fact that they made the latest KotOR game an MMO...

Never going to forgive them for that...  That's more of a personal grudge though.

I know, right!  I have never enjoyed a Star Wars game like I did KotOR, and I don't play MMOs.  I was looking forward to a new Star Wars story at some point  Oh well...

[ULS 980]

soundhole wrote...

ULS 980 wrote...

soundhole wrote...

I will only follow evidence.  When the story says that Shepherd was indoctrinated, then I'll believe it.  Until then, it's just speculation, and I will continue being skeptical.

Then, by your logic, you can't believe Bioware screwed up until someone comes out stating that they screwed up, no?

Point is, the "Bioware screwing up" idea is also speculation.
The difference comes from whether you believe Bioware capable of making these kinds of mistakes.
Personally, I can't see how writers of Bioware's pedigree could make mistakes such as these. They are far too obvious to miss. It just doesn't make sense. It'd be like a swordmaster waking up one day and forgetting how to hold a sword.

No, that's not my logic.   I think that they screwed up is pretty obvious.  Why they screwed up is speculative. They could have run out of resources to finish the ending as Casey Maley originally intended.  EA could have placed constraints on them that prevented the team from finishing the game.  Or both.  And those issues could be compounded if the ending they had planned wasn't exactly great to begin with.  I don't know, I have insufficient evidence to make any assertion.

You placing Bioware on a pedestle is not a good argument.  There were large chunks of Dragon Age that I thought were as poorly executed, or even worse than, the ME3 ending.  Jade Empire was kind of clunky in parts (from what I remember - yeesh, years ago).  I agree that they've made some great stories, and that screwing up ME3 was out-of-character, but I'm not going to assume it's impossible just because they're Bioware.

I don't want to believe it, either.  But use Occam's Razor.  Bioware are just people, sometimes they screw up, whether with writing or logistics.  

I'm not placing them on a pedestal.
I'm aware that they can make mistakes.
I just don't think that, given their pedigree, they are capable of making mistakes such as these.
Even if they have to put out a rushed ending, I'd like to think that they'd at least sat down to make sure it's consistent. The number of plotholes and inconsistencies along with the degree to how obvious a mistake it is, combined with the quality of ME1, 2, and 99% of 3, makes me think something other than "They were strapped for time and just screwed up" is at work here.

Basically, I refuse to believe anyone with at least half a brain cell would make these kinds of mistakes let alone writers from Bioware.

Modifié par ULS 980, 20 mars 2012 - 11:33 .

[Forgomoth]

soundhole wrote...

Forgomoth wrote...
Just look at the fact that they made the latest KotOR game an MMO...

Never going to forgive them for that...  That's more of a personal grudge though.

I know, right!  I have never enjoyed a Star Wars game like I did KotOR, and I don't play MMOs.  I was looking forward to a new Star Wars story at some point  Oh well...

Here's hoping that they'll use one of their new studios to make another single player one.  Granted, I don't think the multiplayer addition was bad, but making it a massive multiplayer game was questionable.  If they made it a 1-4 player game, they probably could have improved on every other part of the game in terms of story.

After playing the free trial, it feels as if that was what it was supposed to be anyways.  Never during my play time did I think, "This really does seem better as an MMO.  The subscription would totally be worth it."

However, now I'm getting off topic.

Modifié par Forgomoth, 20 mars 2012 - 11:37 .

[CavScout]

Forgomoth wrote...

soundhole wrote...
Regardless of what the ending actually is, I think Bioware did a poor job articulating it.  

I don't think anyone can argue with that.

Every supporter of the Indoctrination theory is disagreeing with you.

[CavScout]

ULS 980 wrote...

soundhole wrote...

I will only follow evidence.  When the story says that Shepherd was indoctrinated, then I'll believe it.  Until then, it's just speculation, and I will continue being skeptical.

Then, by your logic, you can't believe Bioware screwed up until someone comes out stating that they screwed up, no?

Point is, the "Bioware screwing up" idea is also speculation.
The difference comes from whether you believe Bioware capable of making these kinds of mistakes.
Personally, I can't see how writers of Bioware's pedigree could make mistakes such as these. They are far too obvious to miss. It just doesn't make sense. It'd be like a swordmaster waking up one day and forgetting how to hold a sword.

The idea that the "ending is just the ending" is an equivalent to the indoctrination theory is laughable. False equivalence alert!!

[lex0r11]

CavScout wrote...

Forgomoth wrote...

soundhole wrote...
Regardless of what the ending actually is, I think Bioware did a poor job articulating it.  

I don't think anyone can argue with that.

Every supporter of the Indoctrination theory is disagreeing with you.

honest question.

maybe i missed it too, but are 'they' all saying they did a great job in showing us the ending as they did?

is everone on this board misunderstanding one another? way more assumptions going on about people than actual theories.

[CavScout]

lex0r11 wrote...

CavScout wrote...

Forgomoth wrote...

soundhole wrote...
Regardless of what the ending actually is, I think Bioware did a poor job articulating it.  

I don't think anyone can argue with that.

Every supporter of the Indoctrination theory is disagreeing with you.

honest question.

maybe i missed it too, but are 'they' all saying they did a great job in showing us the ending as they did?

is everone on this board misunderstanding one another? way more assumptions going on about people than actual theories.

It's so obvious to the indoctrination folks that indodoctrination is what happened, how they then argue it was poorly done?

Modifié par CavScout, 21 mars 2012 - 01:21 .

[Bazedragon]

CavScout wrote...

lex0r11 wrote...

CavScout wrote...

Forgomoth wrote...

soundhole wrote...
Regardless of what the ending actually is, I think Bioware did a poor job articulating it.  

I don't think anyone can argue with that.

Every supporter of the Indoctrination theory is disagreeing with you.

honest question.

maybe i missed it too, but are 'they' all saying they did a great job in showing us the ending as they did?

is everone on this board misunderstanding one another? way more assumptions going on about people than actual theories.

It's so obvious to the indoctrination folks that indodoctrination is what happened, how they then argue it was poorly done?

It's not so much how obvious or non-obvious it is - as it is trying to find reasons for all the multitude of inconsistencies in both the lore, and the actions of certain individuals in such a short space of time.

If there were an alternative which made some logical sense, I'd imagine the Indoctrination Theory followers would accept that as a possibility, as well. But what we have so far is one possibility, which allows for these plotholes without totally re-writing that last 10+minute sequence.
People don't support it, don't download the DLC or whatever IF Bioware take the theory and run with it, then, everyone can be satisfied.

[Forgomoth]

CavScout wrote...

lex0r11 wrote...

CavScout wrote...

Every supporter of the Indoctrination theory is disagreeing with you.

honest question.

maybe i missed it too, but are 'they' all saying they did a great job in showing us the ending as they did?

is everone on this board misunderstanding one another? way more assumptions going on about people than actual theories.

It's so obvious to the indoctrination folks that indodoctrination is what happened, how they then argue it was poorly done?

I think that they conveyed their message well?  I didn't know that...

Oops, there I go with internet sarcasm...

And an overuse of elipses...

Anyways, while some of us believe that the events may have been intentionally misconveyed, poor communication, is poor communication.  Whether we think it's smart or not, it certainly leaves us guessing.