Huh?origins combat was good on PC and 2 was aswell dont get me wrong but DA2 felt really rushed acts just dont seem to connect well i still have fun playing it though infact i still play it when im bored at work but still i think DA3 should have both DAO and DA2 mix DAO and DA2 combat and have your charatcer not talk and with the numbered replys i loved that im not saying i hated the dialog wheel but i miss the numbered replys when im acting out my charatcer.Adanu wrote...
Marko GW wrote...
You remember Origins, Bioware??? The RPG of the year, the game that everybody loves... why did you mess with stuff like that???
Speak for yourself. I had a lot of issues with Origins that DA2 improved on, including the screwed combat.
DA3 & Importing - Import feature for DA3 confirmed. Yay or Nay?
#51
Posté 24 mars 2012 - 02:59
#52
Posté 27 mars 2012 - 07:44
I'm kind of lost here.The only' bug import' I got was from Nathaniel that said the architec was alive when I killed it,but I got a patch for it and so everything is fine now.Some of us has technical experience , for the love of the maker please tell me HOW DO YOU IMOPRT A BUG??????.Your history is a setting !!!!!!!!!!!! You import that,if there is a bug it has to do with the new game's programming.And with that there are patches to fix those problems.David Gaider wrote...
hoorayforicecream wrote...
"Yes, it's a big issue... because "garbage in, garbage out", right? It doesn't help if we write things that take advantage of imported data if that data isn't properly there to be imported. We've got some ideas on the table, but I don't think we can comment on any of it right now. Know that this is a big issue, however, especially insofar as the writers are concerned." -- David Gaider
"I can't talk methods, but I can talk goals: We would like you to be able to import choices in a way that is error-proof. Which is to say, not ignoring the DA world you've helped shape." -- Mike Laidlaw
These statements deserve repeating, apparently.
The question is how we will do the import, not whether we will. The problem is that our "beginning point" has bugs that date back to DAO... and even though some of those were fixed in the original game, many people have saves that date from before those fixes. So if you don't have a clean starting point, what you import won't affect how we use it (which was the case with many peoples' Zevran encounter in DA2).
So we'll figure it out. No flailing required.
So Bioware asks fans what they want and then cames up with excuses for not doing it.Really have they not notice how p-off fans can really get?
Must we start another charity for them to eventualy take us seriously.
#53
Posté 27 mars 2012 - 08:22
I say this as someone who has played both games repeatedly and is still burned out from the ME3 ending. I think at some point, you introduce so many variables that you can't do much more than a a few divergent cutscenes, and even then, those cutscenes have to all lead back to a single plot path. The more variables for which DA3 has to account, the less meaningful each one will be. The trips down memory lane have been so brief, we might as well break more new ground instead and have more diverse, if self-contained, decisions in a largely independent DA3.
I really wanted more Warden and more Hawke. However, with Bioware iffy on multiple races, committed to a voiced protagonist and the Warden's fate unclear (including his or her survival) following DA:O, DA:A and Witch Hunt, it looks like that's a no go. And Bioware's said flat-out it's basically done with Hawke.
If Bioware stepping back from these games allows it to deliver really compelling new characters and surprising, engaging storylines, I'll take it. DA was always supposed to be bigger than a few characters, with the exceptions, for now, of Flemeth and Morrigan. There's a small but important body of canon for them, and I think you can touch on their activities while still telling pretty much any story you want.
#54
Posté 27 mars 2012 - 08:59
I was very happy to read the original quotes in the first thread. But, why can't you just fix DAO? I totally understand that not everyone is like me and willing to play a full run DAO/DAA/GoA/WH again just to go get a fresh import and the various choices I want. However, I find it hard to believe that I am the only person who 1) continues to enjoy playing DAO so wouldn't mind a fresh play, and 2) if we are provided with a flawless (or close enough) import opportunity by doing a fresh run I would be ecstatic and play again with glee.David Gaider wrote...
hoorayforicecream wrote...
"Yes, it's a big issue... because "garbage in, garbage out", right? It doesn't help if we write things that take advantage of imported data if that data isn't properly there to be imported. We've got some ideas on the table, but I don't think we can comment on any of it right now. Know that this is a big issue, however, especially insofar as the writers are concerned." -- David Gaider
"I can't talk methods, but I can talk goals: We would like you to be able to import choices in a way that is error-proof. Which is to say, not ignoring the DA world you've helped shape." -- Mike Laidlaw
These statements deserve repeating, apparently.
The question is how we will do the import, not whether we will. The problem is that our "beginning point" has bugs that date back to DAO... and even though some of those were fixed in the original game, many people have saves that date from before those fixes. So if you don't have a clean starting point, what you import won't affect how we use it (which was the case with many peoples' Zevran encounter in DA2).
So we'll figure it out. No flailing required.
DAO still has several bugs, including these behind the scene issues that are screwing up the imports. Is it ever in the plan to fix those, or are you go just going to try and do the best you can with the previous material you have while attempting to devise a problem-free new method that will last through DA3 and beyond?
#55
Posté 27 mars 2012 - 09:18
Eski.Moe wrote...
I really can't sympathise with the importance that people choose to place on Importing. ... Dragon Age is a series in which we've been told time and time again that it's more about the world than the characters. It isn't about the Warden, it isn't about Hawke, it's about Thedas and the issues within.
I don't know, I feel as if this places a handicap on the game and that we can receive a stronger product if ... they decided on canon and moved forward with the world as such. Have multiple decisions and different ways that the end-state can be within the game but decide on a set path when embarking on a sequel.
I agree with your first point. Generally, while I do like to have closure for my character, I'm perfectly fine with a new protagonist for every game, taking place in a new part of Thedas. Thedas and it's history is the main draw for me.
However, when it comes to game sequels and world changing events, it's not the least bit jarring to you to see something that didn't happen? For example, perhaps in your DAO, Alistair sacrificed himself to the Archdemon. By default Anora would retain the throne. Perhaps the official canon they decided on was that Alistair (just like in the new comic) is still alive and king of Ferelden. So, In DA2 there is a small cameo by the ruler of Ferelden, King Alistair. But that's not the reality you shaped in your game.
If we are going to be given choices with no possibility of importing, then those choices need to stay in their respective games. No cameos, no throw away lines, no A Study of the Fifth Blight, Vols. 1 & 2, nothing whatsoever. From DAO, the only lasting impact would be that the Archdemon was defeated, and DA2 is presented similar to Asunder where Anders and his act are the only things referenced about Kirkwall. There is nothing wrong with that, it certainly would solve a great many problems. However, it would hurt what is certainly a great draw to the series for many people, and I think eliminate many benefits from importing that help to enrich the games.
This is... a very sad statementAdynata wrote...
(I read for a living and it has taken all joy out of reading for pleasure).
I agree with the point though that extraneous media should not be required to understand the lore. World of Warcraft is approaching this status, and it's starting to annoy me. I like the novels, but I'm not going to buy dozens of issues of graphic novels and comics just to feel that I understand everything. Not only do I not desire to go through all of that material, but it really feels as if the company is taking advantage of our love of a given series to try to bilk as much money out of us as possible (yes, it's a business and all that...). I can handle that to a small degree, but too much just irritates me.
Modifié par nightscrawl, 27 mars 2012 - 09:34 .
#56
Posté 27 mars 2012 - 10:59
Hawke is a bit more difficult,doa was'nt a personel story.All we got was what happend to the character in order to become a grey warden.Da 2 was hawkes personel story.but if da3 is like dao then there is no real personel history and you should be able to continue with the hawke character.
Same goes for a new protagonist then if da3 is like dao we'll get a diffrent back ground story for npc,but the missions stay the same,just have diffrent dialogue and response options.
Your back ground setting change your game's program into a repsonse.example in origins a circle mage got diffrent dialogue options and responses than an elf or rogue.So when you import previous saved character the program should repond to it say like in da2 alistair could be a king
a drunk
or dead.
An import is saved settings from previous game .If you had a relationship with Lilianna or zev or your facial figure basically any choice is saved and carried over.Now whiles playing origins did your character forget it's in a relationship or did facial figure change? No there was no bug so thus you could'nt save it and carry it over to next game.
What happens is when you import your previous save as a background setting it's suppose to trigger or activate a program from new game.When import info is lost its because the new games program did'nt respond.It's a programming mistake not import.
MAYBE boiware should tell the truth and say there was'nt enough time for da2 so there was some programming problems or letting you import a chosen character is too much trouble, than lie.
#57
Posté 27 mars 2012 - 11:49
I find your post really confusing...
Anyway, people should not settle for a canon story just so Bioware does not have problems in creating DA3. I mean, that is their job and they have plenty of time to do it since nobody wants DA3 to come out this year and be rushed like DA2.
They gave us DA:O the game that got us hooked on the Dragon Age world, story and characters. That is why we gave them our money, trust and praise for it. Then they give us DA2, the majority reacted as they should have, by pointing out over and over that the game does not feel right, it doesn't deserve the adulation that DA:O got.
Like I said before, DA3 will get its sales mostly because people still love DA:O, although there are the ones that also liked DA2 and nobody can't deny that or state that DA2 was universally hated.
I also did not hate DA2, I am just disappointed. I still play it but it will never get as immersive for me as DA:O was. DA3 will be the make or break point for me and many others I believe, Bioware knows that and I believe they will produce something great. They do not have to "re-invent the wheel" to do that, just to take a closer look at the suggestions, likes & dislikes on these forums.
Imagine the popularity and praise they will get if we get thought through satisfying endings & closures on the Warden, Morrigan, Flemeth, God baby, Hawke, mages vs templars stories.
Not only they will regain the respect, but they will have an almost clean slate on DA4, I say "almost" since we do not know what choices lay in DA3 that will further shape the world, but whatever they are, they will most certainly not be as they were in DA:O. They got a bit over their heads with them and I know they will never try that again.
Time will tell, until then we can just speculate and share our opinions that hopefully Bioware checks them out from time to time.
Modifié par Marko GW, 27 mars 2012 - 11:51 .
#58
Posté 27 mars 2012 - 12:02
So sorry tell me what you don't understand so I can try and explain betterMarko GW wrote...
@ valentine3
I find your post really confusing...
Anyway, people should not settle for a canon story just so Bioware does not have problems in creating DA3. I mean, that is their job and they have plenty of time to do it since nobody wants DA3 to come out this year and be rushed like DA2.
They gave us DA:O the game that got us hooked on the Dragon Age world, story and characters. That is why we gave them our money, trust and praise for it. Then they give us DA2, the majority reacted as they should have, by pointing out over and over that the game does not feel right, it doesn't deserve the adulation that DA:O got.
Like I said before, DA3 will get its sales mostly because people still love DA:O, although there are the ones that also liked DA2 and nobody can't deny that or state that DA2 was universally hated.
I also did not hate DA2, I am just disappointed. I still play it but it will never get as immersive for me as DA:O was. DA3 will be the make or break point for me and many others I believe, Bioware knows that and I believe they will produce something great. They do not have to "re-invent the wheel" to do that, just to take a closer look at the suggestions, likes & dislikes on these forums.
Imagine the popularity and praise they will get if we get thought through satisfying endings & closures on the Warden, Morrigan, Flemeth, God baby, Hawke, mages vs templars stories.
Not only they will regain the respect, but they will have an almost clean slate on DA4, I say "almost" since we do not know what choices lay in DA3 that will further shape the world, but whatever they are, they will most certainly not be as they were in DA:O. They got a bit over their heads with them and I know they will never try that again.
Time will tell, until then we can just speculate and share our opinions that hopefully Bioware checks them out from time to time.
#59
Posté 27 mars 2012 - 12:43
They don't have to create a canon, as long as they don't refer to any of the choices we made in the previous two games. Archdemon is dead and Anders blew up Kirkwall's Chantry. Those are the only two basic, world-changing events that will be the same in every single play, and really, in terms of significance to Thedas as a whole, they're the only two events that matter. To progress in a story, nothing else that we did even has to be mentioned.Marko GW wrote...
Anyway, people should not settle for a canon story just so Bioware does not have problems in creating DA3.
Granted, it's way more fun to import and have our choices referenced by various things, but it's not necessary to progress with Thedas's narrative.
#60
Posté 27 mars 2012 - 02:42
The more I play games the more I realize that save import is really difficult to put in practise, both from a technical than from a narrative point of view. OK, it's cool to see some choice you did in a previous game addressed somewhere in a sequel but to be honest if the results of save import are just cameos, an entry in the codex or a minor side quest I honestly won't bother too much if they say they are going to begin a new story from the scratch.
Imported choices generally represent no more than 5% of the game, and in DA games they usually won't affect in any way the storyline.
ME was a little different but there you had a story with the same character spreaded across the whole trilogy, here in DA games you change everytime characters, companions, story, setting. I really won't miss save import then. It's enough they don't retconnect or deny something from the previous chapter then I'll be fine with that.
Modifié par MaxQuartiroli, 27 mars 2012 - 02:43 .
#61
Posté 27 mars 2012 - 03:45
MaxQuartiroli wrote...
Sincerely I begin to change my attitude toward save import.
The more I play games the more I realize that save import is really difficult to put in practise, both from a technical than from a narrative point of view. OK, it's cool to see some choice you did in a previous game addressed somewhere in a sequel but to be honest if the results of save import are just cameos, an entry in the codex or a minor side quest I honestly won't bother too much if they say they are going to begin a new story from the scratch.
Imported choices generally represent no more than 5% of the game, and in DA games they usually won't affect in any way the storyline.
ME was a little different but there you had a story with the same character spreaded across the whole trilogy, here in DA games you change everytime characters, companions, story, setting. I really won't miss save import then. It's enough they don't retconnect or deny something from the previous chapter then I'll be fine with that.
I agree ,I would like the option of imporing a previous pc,but if I can't cameo's and stuff will just be a dissapiontment
Or els I might spend half the game running around trying to get info on previous characters and forget the main plot of the new game
#62
Posté 27 mars 2012 - 04:00
nightscrawl wrote...
They don't have to create a canon, as long as they don't refer to any of the choices we made in the previous two games. Archdemon is dead and Anders blew up Kirkwall's Chantry. Those are the only two basic, world-changing events...
Then what was the point in choosing who to rule Orzamar?
Whether you preserve the Anvil or destroy it?
Did you leave the Architect alive or killed him?
...the choices in "Legacy"?
Made the ritual with Morrigan or not... or let Alistar or Loghain to do it?
What you did with Morrigan at the end of Witch Hunt?
Helped Meril fix the Eluvian or not?
Let Isabela be taken by the Qunari or fought for her... or she left you?
What did you do with Andraste's ashes and tomb?
Who rules Ferelden, Anora or Alistair... also your decision regarding Loghain?
If Anora rules, did Alistair stayed with the Wardens or become a drunk?
Who did Hawke side with..?
...and many other decisions.
There are more world-changing events than only those two you mentioned above, although granted they are the biggest, but as you say they are in every game as they cannot be avoided. This game should reflect our choices and shape the world according to them. That is what makes this gameworld above others, you're not playing an already told story, you make it happen and there are different consequences.
I understand that it's not easy to satisfy all answers but it needs more than just "Archdemon dead, Chantry exploded" background story. There should be a balance between Thedas and the characters, as we are playing in a big world but we get attached to the characters through romance or friendship, and wish to see what happens to them according to the way we treated them.
Maybe it's just me, but the freedom (in lack for a better word) and the feeling that the things you do matter on a bigger scale is what got me into this game for so long, making it the best gaming experience I ever had.
Modifié par Marko GW, 27 mars 2012 - 04:00 .
#63
Posté 27 mars 2012 - 04:33
Marko GW wrote...
Then what was the point in choosing who to rule Orzamar?
Whether you preserve the Anvil or destroy it?
Did you leave the Architect alive or killed him?
...the choices in "Legacy"?
Made the ritual with Morrigan or not... or let Alistar or Loghain to do it?
What you did with Morrigan at the end of Witch Hunt?
Helped Meril fix the Eluvian or not?
Let Isabela be taken by the Qunari or fought for her... or she left you?
What did you do with Andraste's ashes and tomb?
Who rules Ferelden, Anora or Alistair... also your decision regarding Loghain?
If Anora rules, did Alistair stayed with the Wardens or become a drunk?
Who did Hawke side with..?
...and many other decisions.
There are more world-changing events than only those two you mentioned above, although granted they are the biggest, but as you say they are in every game as they cannot be avoided. This game should reflect our choices and shape the world according to them. That is what makes this gameworld above others, you're not playing an already told story, you make it happen and there are different consequences.
To be fair I don't think many of those are particularly necessary. With the dwarves and the anvil it will only really matter if we see Orzammar or Kal Sharok.
The Architect and Isiabella only really matter for the purposes of giving them cameo's. Do they really need cameo's?
Then there's things like who's ruling Ferelden which should only have any substantial impact if we rerurn to Ferelden, also Alaistair being a drunk/Warden/King has already been mentioned in DA2.
At this point we're asking them to include a bunch of stuff that doesn't really need to matter if we are playing a new PC in new lands.
There are some things that need to be respected, but some things are not necessary.
#64
Posté 27 mars 2012 - 09:39
#65
Posté 27 mars 2012 - 11:25
#66
Posté 27 mars 2012 - 11:40
I for one, want to play a game where I shape the world with my decisions. If none of them matters than it simply does not have any value to spend 60+ hours on something that is pre-determined.
#67
Posté 28 mars 2012 - 03:39
#68
Posté 28 mars 2012 - 04:13
nightscrawl wrote...
I was very happy to read the original quotes in the first thread. But, why can't you just fix DAO? I totally understand that not everyone is like me and willing to play a full run DAO/DAA/GoA/WH again just to go get a fresh import and the various choices I want. However, I find it hard to believe that I am the only person who 1) continues to enjoy playing DAO so wouldn't mind a fresh play, and 2) if we are provided with a flawless (or close enough) import opportunity by doing a fresh run I would be ecstatic and play again with glee.David Gaider wrote...
hoorayforicecream wrote...
"Yes, it's a big issue... because "garbage in, garbage out", right? It doesn't help if we write things that take advantage of imported data if that data isn't properly there to be imported. We've got some ideas on the table, but I don't think we can comment on any of it right now. Know that this is a big issue, however, especially insofar as the writers are concerned." -- David Gaider
"I can't talk methods, but I can talk goals: We would like you to be able to import choices in a way that is error-proof. Which is to say, not ignoring the DA world you've helped shape." -- Mike Laidlaw
These statements deserve repeating, apparently.
The question is how we will do the import, not whether we will. The problem is that our "beginning point" has bugs that date back to DAO... and even though some of those were fixed in the original game, many people have saves that date from before those fixes. So if you don't have a clean starting point, what you import won't affect how we use it (which was the case with many peoples' Zevran encounter in DA2).
So we'll figure it out. No flailing required.
DAO still has several bugs, including these behind the scene issues that are screwing up the imports. Is it ever in the plan to fix those, or are you go just going to try and do the best you can with the previous material you have while attempting to devise a problem-free new method that will last through DA3 and beyond?
I would love an excuse to play DA:O again after slumbering for 9 months in a frozen repose....
#69
Posté 28 mars 2012 - 09:08
Marko GW wrote...
I simply cannot agree with no imports just because they're hard to make. I said it time and again that it's their job to make it work, no excuses.
It's not just hard, it's nigh impossible. Saying it's their job to make it work won't change that, no matter how many times you repeat it.
Have you ever made a game, or a mod, particularly the coding side of things like dialogue where flags are set or unset? One of the problems lies in some of those flags being broken in DA:O, DA2 and the DLCs. Effective patching will fix those bugs, but it won't fix your existing savegames. It can't. Your only choice would be replaying everything with the patched version, and using those saved games to import. Good for you if you have time to do that, but not everyone does.
On top of that, I'd led to believe patching isn't as easy as it used to be when a game is a) cross-platform, and
If you can't understand any of what I just said, then you have no right to tell them to 'make it work'.
You might try asking their QA team to up their game before games launch though.
I for one, want to play a game where I shape the world with my decisions. If none of them matters than it simply does not have any value to spend 60+ hours on something that is pre-determined.
I don't think anyone's specifically said they there won't be an import system, have they? Or did I miss the memo?
#70
Posté 28 mars 2012 - 11:26
A few of these new threads have devolved into "the sky is falling!" because of lack of information, and people reading the very worst in what is essentially some minor statement from a dev.Shadow of Light Dragon wrote...
I don't think anyone's specifically said they there won't be an import system, have they? Or did I miss the memo?
Really, the only thing is to wait and see what they have to show us, because much of this speculation and tooth gnashing is pointless. Suggestions are GREAT, but blatant fear mongering (like the title of this thread) is not.
#71
Posté 28 mars 2012 - 11:46
Marko GW wrote...
I simply cannot agree with no imports just because they're hard to make. I said it time and again that it's their job to make it work, no excuses.
I for one, want to play a game where I shape the world with my decisions. If none of them matters than it simply does not have any value to spend 60+ hours on something that is pre-determined.
You have to consider that a budget for a game is not endless, as long as developement time.
If they could have 5 years and endless budget they could probably do it, then charge it $200 and hope that people won't complain about the price. But this isn't going to happen.
Imports is not difficult to do if they limit themselves to cameos and side quests. A game shaped with the decisions in its major parts is just impossibile to do unless it is a direct sequel and they are willing to waste money, time and resources in order to create several different paths. It would be cool indeed, but impossible, not because it is hard to make, but because of limited resources.
So the question is: granted that import can only bring you small side quests and cameos, do you think it will be really a great loss if one day they will decide to remove save import from one of their games?
Modifié par MaxQuartiroli, 28 mars 2012 - 11:49 .
#72
Guest_sjpelkessjpeler_*
Posté 28 mars 2012 - 11:53
Guest_sjpelkessjpeler_*
But I like the import. It gives an extra dimension to my gaming experience to see what the decisions I made before influence parts of the story.
#73
Posté 28 mars 2012 - 12:51
Not for cameo.I found cameos disappionting.only because I got so excited to see previous character and 2 min later they're gone.But imports are important. To throw hours of game play away( all that info and stuff) will be a great loss.MaxQuartiroli wrote...
Marko GW wrote...
I simply cannot agree with no imports just because they're hard to make. I said it time and again that it's their job to make it work, no excuses.
I for one, want to play a game where I shape the world with my decisions. If none of them matters than it simply does not have any value to spend 60+ hours on something that is pre-determined.
You have to consider that a budget for a game is not endless, as long as developement time.
If they could have 5 years and endless budget they could probably do it, then charge it $200 and hope that people won't complain about the price. But this isn't going to happen.
Imports is not difficult to do if they limit themselves to cameos and side quests. A game shaped with the decisions in its major parts is just impossibile to do unless it is a direct sequel and they are willing to waste money, time and resources in order to create several different paths. It would be cool indeed, but impossible, not because it is hard to make, but because of limited resources.
So the question is: granted that import can only bring you small side quests and cameos, do you think it will be really a great loss if one day they will decide to remove save import from one of their games?
If I convert my currency into doller,I paid $70-$80 for dragon age origins,$60 for the ultimate edition,$60 for awakening and $70-$80 for da2.
I am willing to spend the money,but without imports I truely doubt I will.
#74
Posté 28 mars 2012 - 01:15
sjpelkessjpeler wrote...
The problem for BW is that they introduced the import. Players expect it to be a permanent asset of the DA games. All the different choises people can make througout the 2 previous games are impossible to integrate in DA3 I think.
But I like the import. It gives an extra dimension to my gaming experience to see what the decisions I made before influence parts of the story.
It’s an old problem though. If I remember correctly, Baldur’s Gate II used characters that, strictly speaking, could have died in Baldur’s Gate I.
classic example: Imoen (like Leliana a ‘girlish rogue’ type of character, to the point of actually physically resembling her). She returned in a pretty major role in BGII, but quite a few players had been so annoyed by her in BG1 that they made sure she got killed. Then they got saddled up with the character in BG2 anyway.
Doing this kind of thing properly probably requires very careful planning and very good internal communication / synergy. And knowing which events / characters carry over and which are to be avoided / 'written around'.
Well, better next time.
Modifié par Das Tentakel, 28 mars 2012 - 01:17 .
#75
Posté 28 mars 2012 - 01:17
So in my opinion their problem is not that they introduced the import but that people often have too many expectations about this feature.
If you won't accept that imports will always play a very limited role in sequels, that some unanswered question will remain still unanswered, that some of your previous choices won't have any influence on the story (not because they are ignored but simply because the story just moved away from that context), that elements of the previous story must be abandoned because they would introduce too many variables in the game, you'll always be disappointed then.
You should take import for what it is: a funny addition, not something who can have a prominent role in a game.
Modifié par MaxQuartiroli, 28 mars 2012 - 01:24 .





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