358 réponses à ce sujet

[bryan12112]

Jenlocks wrote...

... it still kind of makes me feel like throwing up ... we're allowed to stew in our juices thinking of horrible things and getting all crazy about this ... we're just being left to flounder around without confirmation of anything.

Kind of like we're being/we've been indoctrinated. Imagine what Saren was feeling when he was gradually being pulled to the other side.

Brilliant!

(this is not meant to be an entirely serious post)

Modifié par bryan12112, 20 mars 2012 - 09:16 .

[Grusome11]

Great article.

This is why I support Indoctrination Theory. There are just too many plot holes, etc for the team of writer's at Bioware to make except on purpose.

I mean, just look at the ending. It is so bad, you could not write that by mistake. Even a bad writer could not make that many consistant mistakes.

It's like the contest they hold every year to write the worst introduction to a book. The wining entry is so bad, the guy who writes it has to be an excellent writer. A bad writer could not write that badly. He isn't good enough.

[Rusty0918]

Thank you Grusome11. Now we need the rest of the ending, or endings.

[Penguinlover]

Yes, I cannot see Bioware ending the game this way. They will announce something soon. If they do and this has all been a clever ploy, I think it will be amazing.

[Exicuren]

Very interesting, until i read the article i inmediately realize that we are actually seeing trough shepard's eyes, and it makes sense, when i saw the ending, "i said how could BW do this? It's just not possible".

Mind blown

[Khallos]

This whole thing sounds like a case of a FUBAR in the development process and indoctrination seems to me like one heck of a stretch and more along the lines of real life conspiracy theories, but if it's (somehow) true...

[keekee53]

Honestly, I would hate to find out Shepard was indoctrinated. However, this theory would make sense out of senselessness.

Thanks for sharing...very interesting read.

[twystedspyder]

Yes. We have two options the way I see it.

Option 1.) The writers at Bioware are so ****ing terrible at their jobs that they actually thought that this ending would be accepted by its fans and we wouldn't notice the direct contradiction to the story they have established over the past 5 years.

Option 2.) The Indoctrination Theory is absolute fact. They contradict the established themes of not only the previous two games, but also the entirety of the 3rd game as well. Bioware would never do this unless it was on purpose and they are keeping us in the dark because they are trying to stick to their guns and not ruin the reveal of the true ending for everyone before they get to experience the game as intended.

They promised us "an ending". Not THE ending. There is still hope.

But of course, option 1 is actually just as likely as option 2, sadly. I would expect some official word by April 6. I will be damning the endings as they are but keeping the faith until then.

[Joolazoo]

....not saying i don't believe it (I don't, but i think it's a better ending than the one we got), but how dumb is all the time spent on these theories going to look if in a couple weeks bioware goes "yes, we're changing the endings because our ending sucked balls and was viewed as intended", which i think everyone hopes happens.

[Jenlocks]

bryan12112 wrote...

Jenlocks wrote...

... it still kind of makes me feel like throwing up ... we're allowed to stew in our juices thinking of horrible things and getting all crazy about this ... we're just being left to flounder around without confirmation of anything.

Kind of like we're being/we've been indoctrinated. Imagine what Saren was feeling when he was gradually being pulled to the other side.

Brilliant!

(this is not meant to be an entirely serious post)

Poor Saren  i feel his pain now..

Imagine how the LI's will react to your shepard now..if they're alive:blink:

[The Ponderer]

Good story, this is my hope as well, do us good BW!

[atheimetal]

I am not going to subscribe to a theory that forces me to make that many assumptions about things we cannot know, cannot prove, and cannot determine for sure. I am not saying that it is impossible, but that is absolutely not what they told us the end would be. They said they would answer questions, tie up plots. All the indoctrination theory ending does is force us to ask a lot more questions, and answer them with assumptions - and that is NOT an ending.

The only thing that could make this acceptable is if they were already planning to release more information about this ending down the road, and actually tie up the loose ends. In which case maybe they can't say anything about it yet, but short of that, sorry, I do not agree with this concept.

Modifié par atheimetal, 20 mars 2012 - 09:50 .

[DannieCraft]

 Thing is (even if this is very impressive - and if true) that if not everyone sees it without having to read this - BioWare has failed to make their point. It is like the "Replicant theory" of Bladerunner, which forced Ridley Scott to make his point more clear in the director's final cut.

[hagren]

Can anyone confirm or check whether the musical cues really change instantly from brooding to calm depending on which node you are randomly going to? Because if that's true, then that's the most conclusive proof for the theory yet. If the angelic sounds right after Shep wakes up aren't enough.

[yumesama]

 Amazingly well written and laid out.

I'm convinced.

[jupitertronic]

[I was typing this up for the other thread that got locked, thought I'd post it here since I couldn't post it there.]

I'm NOT taking a side on the Indoctrination Theory, just so that's clear. I think it's a valid theory, I'm just on the fence about whether or not I believe it. But that doesn't invalidate it at all, okay? Okay.

If the Indoctrination Theory is somehow true, we've just witnessed gaming HISTORY. But I don't know if I believe it.

I had someone fly into a rage at me on a YouTube comment (what else is new?) when I said that while I think the Indoc Theory makes a ton of sense and would be the most awesome thing in the history of ever, I feel that BioWare would have made the hints a lot more obvious* so that it was clear they were messing with our heads. Because why put that much effort into that kind of ending unless you want everyone to know how clever you were to have come up with it? Genius needs an audience; BioWare wouldn't do something this bold without ever telling anyone.**

*This is what someone yelled at me about on YT, saying I must be a moron if I didn't see the really obvious hints. Considering how many people seem to be confused about the ending, if I didn't see the hints, I'm clearly not in the minority.

**Maybe someday BioWare WILL confirm that the Indoctrination Theory is true. They've made it pretty clear they want all regions to have a chance to finish the game before they make any statements that might clear things up. But I think my point is that if they have to explain what they were trying to do with the ending, then from a narrative standpoint, they failed.

Not to mention good old Occam's Razor: The simplest explanation is usually the correct one; they ran out of time/money/resources and hobbled the ending together without thinking it through.

If the Indoctrination Theory was real, NOTHING would make me happier. I'm just a cynic.

Modifié par jupitertronic, 20 mars 2012 - 10:05 .

[HunMassiv]

I just don't know what to say. Really mind blowing. Faith restored, once again. Now I can't beleive that this isn't true. This has to be true. This is true.

And suddenly I want to play Mass Effect 3 again. Didn't think of this since I first finished it. Starting my second playthrough right now. THANKS!!!

Modifié par HunMassiv, 20 mars 2012 - 10:05 .

[FellishBeast]

VERY well written. Very clear and explains it perfectly. I completely agree.

[Fuzrum77]

I think this theory is a hell of a stretch. But I'm certainly not going to bash it or those who believe it. Hell, I -want- to believe ™. But I don't. jupitertronic, above me, mentioned Occam's Razor. I agree with him on this. And while I don't want to crush anyone's hope, I also don't want for your hope to grow even further only to be dashed by Bioware when this turns out not to be true. There's only so much disappointment we can take.

And the time frame is also what gets me about this: with every passing minute, somebody is returning their game (apparently for full refunds in some places). Folks are canceling their SWTOR subscriptions over this. People are getting fed up. They're getting angry. They're feeling toyed with and disrespected by Bioware's silence and apparent indifference to their collective pain.

Just be wary. Discuss it and a little hope never hurt anybody, but convincing yourselves this -has- to be true is setting yourselves up for a huge fall...again. Not trying to talk down to anybody either. I'm just genuinely concerned for my fellow fans.

[Glitch007]

Few little things I noticed which make me think it IS indoctrination:

1. After Harvenger hits, look behing you, you can see ghostly trees from Shep's dream
2. Pick Control ending Star Child evilly smiles as you do it
3. Look at Sheps eyes in each of the choices, Control or Synthesis endings his eyes turn blue just like Illusive Man/Saren's, Destruction they do not

The usual comments suggest indoctrination too, but these are slightly more subtle.

Modifié par Glitch007, 20 mars 2012 - 10:21 .

[KrazyKiko]

Wow...All I can say is f-in' brilliant. I'm amazed at the theory. I would still like know - why did the Normandy try to outrun the Mass Relay field explosion...then, have my love Interest walk out on the mysterious planet when she was running towards the Citatel / Catalyst with me at the end? I think its that part that irritates me the most. But I love your analysis...Brilliant.

[Grusome11]

twystedspyder wrote...

Yes. We have two options the way I see it.

Option 1.) The writers at Bioware are so ****ing terrible at their jobs that they actually thought that this ending would be accepted by its fans and we wouldn't notice the direct contradiction to the story they have established over the past 5 years.

Option 2.) The Indoctrination Theory is absolute fact. They contradict the established themes of not only the previous two games, but also the entirety of the 3rd game as well. Bioware would never do this unless it was on purpose and they are keeping us in the dark because they are trying to stick to their guns and not ruin the reveal of the true ending for everyone before they get to experience the game as intended.

They promised us "an ending". Not THE ending. There is still hope.

But of course, option 1 is actually just as likely as option 2, sadly. I would expect some official word by April 6. I will be damning the endings as they are but keeping the faith until then.

The problem with your option 1, is that the writing has been good for the last 2.98 games in the series. Its been many of the same guys throughout. If they had brough in some guy just for the ending, it might make sense that it was this messed up, but, to my knowledge, they did not.

There are just too many seeming plot holes and hints at indocrtination for this to be a simple mistake. They can do good stuff, someone mentioned the plot twist for KOTOR. That was a good one.

[HunMassiv]

KrazyKiko wrote...

Wow...All I can say is f-in' brilliant. I'm amazed at the theory. I would still like know - why did the Normandy try to outrun the Mass Relay field explosion...then, have my love Interest walk out on the mysterious planet when she was running towards the Citatel / Catalyst with me at the end? I think its that part that irritates me the most. But I love your analysis...Brilliant.

That's still in the 'dream'. And it's there to bring a fake closure to the game, I think...

[SeventhShield]

Some points used as potential "evidence" are incorrect.

If you’re standing at the point where the Citadel and the Crucible meet, why is Earth above your head, looming like a brilliant, cosmic reminder of what’s at stake, when Earth is really beneath you? The Citadel is pointed away from Earth.

The Earth is above you because Shepard is standing on the underside of the Prisidium Tower, which is facing the surface.

How does Hackett know that you’re on the Citadel? As far as everyone knows, you are dead, slain by Harbinger.

Hackett would assume you made it because the Citadel opens for the Crucible.

You see, what we forget as we play through is that the only perspective we have is Commander Shepard’s. Some of us may not think of it that way, but that is the case. We only see what he or she sees, and we only perceive as he or she perceives. And Shepard would only know something was wrong with his or her own mind if we saw it.

If you were playing from Shepard's perspective it would be in first person.
Even if you dismiss any scenes where the player directly controls Shepard, that leaves plenty of events that he never directly witnessed, events that only the player witnessed.

I'm not saying the Shepard Indoctrination theory is wrong, just these few points do nothing to support it.  Frankly, I do believe Shepard was at least somewhat indoctrinated.

[NubXL]

OR BioWare really just screwed the landing.