358 réponses à ce sujet

[PrussianBlue]

Problem is the IF theres something to come.

[katamuro]

Mind stayed where it was. If bioware intended for this to be indoctrination then they would have revealed it by now. There is no point now in holding back as their sales are dropping and fan discontent is growing.

[Xero293]

  So first, why aren't your squadmates indoctrinated? Second, indoctrination is a slow process and shepard has been exposed to very little reaper tech for short amounts of time so how can he be indoctrinated? And about the part where indoctrination causes betrayal and where shepard shoots anderson. This was forced by the Illusive Man and shepard clearly didn't do this on purpose if you look at his expression and if you pay attention you see the Illusive Man using biotics to make him shoot (watch his hand!). The part where it fades to white after being hit by the laser is plainly just one of those artistic ways to show a near death experience. Well what about the part where shepard is laying in debris that is clearly london? You got me there, but I wouldn't be suprised if this was just another plothole by Bioware. What about when Anderson is at the terminal first? If you listen he clearly says the rooms are changing and as you walk towards him you see the walls moving or closing off a room that anderson came from. "Well the radio says the team was decimated!". Yes, but was shepard dead? No. So Anderson probably made it the same way Shepard did. If you pay attention the kid lets you decide because he said these three things are different 'solutions' instead of the reapers. These 'ghostly presences' are in a dream therefor they are not hallucinations. The control option seems paragon for the same reason it does in legion loyalty mission where 'brain washing' the heretics is paragon. Also shepard didn't say it was bad to control them he simply said it was impossible and the risks were too great, but once shepard knew that he could control them it was fine. The starchild stresses destroying them so much because it destroys almost everything we rely on! Wouldn't you stress something if it destroyed your way of life? It's a way of making sure he's clear basically. He doesn't even stress it that much. On a personal note why are the mass relays destroyed even if you don't destroy the reapers?

Modifié par Xero293, 20 mars 2012 - 10:50 .

[Jenlocks]

So the crappy endings are just to make you go "hey something's not right here" make you look at everything in the game/arrival dlc and bring you to the conclusion that shepard is indoctrinated. It kind of creeps me out but I can dig it.

[Rip The Reaper]

I don't care if we/I look foolish!! Please!! Please!! Please make it true Bioware had a plan all along!!

[Rip The Reaper]

"...now that I sit back and think about it, about the games, about Bioware, all I can say is if that this is right, if this is what Bioware intended… If the true ending is yet to come…
…. Bra. ****ing. Vo. Take my goddamn money."

THIS

[SaltyWaffles-PD]

No.Because if this theory was actually true, IT WOULD HAVE BEEN PART OF THE GAME. It wouldn't just end in such a unprecedentedly HORRIBLE, nonsensical, stupid way.

That, and it STILL completely violated and betrayed our trust. They knowingly lied--repeatedly, and recently--about the nature of the endings. They practically went and did the exact opposite of what they said they would do, and even did exactly what they rhetorically asked about what they wouldn't do.

[IST]

 That is the single best Indoctrinated Theory article to date.. easily.

Maybe change the title of this thread, as it belittles the greatness of that blog write up.. (and gets less hits than it deserves)

:wizard:

[Ultra Prism]

This is very good one I like ... these theories are amusing

Cheers
&
Hold the line

[IronSabbath88]

If this theory is true, it's clear BioWare wanted to take a fresh approach, whether because they wanted it to be a surprise or because of the leaks.

It backfired. Plain and simple. People overreacted. It was expected that they would figure it out on their own and that was BioWare's mistake... people don't like to think. They just want answers.

Not meaning to insult anyone, but it's just how it is.

[BeDotWe]

Yup if Bioware really pulls this off, I think I'm going to pour all my cash into their mailboxes.

[kidbd15]

bryan12112 wrote...

kidbd15 wrote...

The only reason they would do all of this is if they didn't have time to finish the actual ending, thus giving them time post release to finish it.  According to the Final Hours app, time was definitely an issue, especially for the ending.

I think the main reason to do this, aside from not having enough time, is because it would be unprecedented and mind blowing. The concept of indoctrinating not only Shepard but also the players is brilliant. It would instantly make people into BioWare fanatics for life.

THAT would be brilliant on BioWare's part, especially if the game continued after the credits. But there really was no indication of that, so we have to speculate on BioWare's motive and intent, leading to all this crap. 

[gesco420]

Very interesting read. A lot of good points are made and I am now even more curious to find out what Bioware's next move will be. It's a huge gamble if this theory is right but could be very interesting. I just don't know anymore. I didn't care for the ending but I guess all I can do is sit and wait since I have already voiced my opinion multiple times and now this theory along with the "refuse" option ending has my head spinning.

[flyferrari02]

B..E..A..utiful!

Impressive and well thought out

[Cpt_Hook]

I am just doing my second play through and defeated the Reaper on the Rannoch. Among other things the Reaper said: “Harbinger speaks off you, you resist but you will fail”. I think that would fit quite nicely with IT but again is subtle enough to be open for other interpretation.
Just wondering, I had a really smooth experience so far, no glitches, no bugs and no crashes. The game simply does not make the impression of being rushed. It feels very well polished.
Software developing doesn’t work like: I finish chapter one and then polish it and go to chapter two. If you rush such a project you will feel it in every section. For better or worse, I don’t think there was any pressure from EA.
Take SW:KotoR 2 for example. That was a game that made a rushed impression, during the gameplay and at the ending. ME3 just doesn’t feel that way.
BW delivered what they intended to deliver and I think there are too many hints pointing at IT to be a coincidence.
Normally I would believe that they are mere sloppiness but the rest of the game is to well done to allow such a high concentration in the last minutes.

[KrazyKiko]

HunMassiv wrote...

KrazyKiko wrote...

Wow...All I can say is f-in' brilliant. I'm amazed at the theory. I would still like know - why did the Normandy try to outrun the Mass Relay field explosion...then, have my love Interest walk out on the mysterious planet when she was running towards the Citatel / Catalyst with me at the end? I think its that part that irritates me the most. But I love your analysis...Brilliant.

That's still in the 'dream'. And it's there to bring a fake closure to the game, I think...

I sure hope so!

[20x6]

There's one small.... err.... huge problem with this theory.

We take a step back to the real world, our world.
Square-Enix has tried the same thing that is being discussed in this thread. They made Final Fantasy XIII-2, made 'an ending' and shipped it. Sadly, from what I've read, the 'as shipped' ending was praised about as much as the ME3 'as shipped' ending was.

Fact 1: It's niche market suicide to make your fans pay for the 'proper ending' in the form of DLC. Making DLC to supplement the game is great, making DLC to make the game worth playing is market suicide. ME3 will be a snatch and run for EA. In the current market, cash is king. Risk is the plague that corporations are avoiding. Keep risk in mind when reading Fact 2.

Fact 2: Not everyone connects to the internet while playing Mass Effect. There are a lot of X-boxes, and PS3s that are not connected to a LAN cable out there. In X-Box land, there are a large majority of them not connected via a Gold account and a lot of them do not have a hard drive installed (X-box arcade version). Since XBox made up 70ish percent of the ME3 sales... do the risk assessment.   ---- EDIT Here-----  Also, when thinking of the business model risk assessment.  How bold would EA be with their stake-holder's cash to not only spend money developing Multiplayer, and also integrate Kinect functionality.... but ALSO screw with the ending?

Fact 3: The first impression is the lasting impression. By the time they release this fabled indoctrination DLC, most people would have already played the game and most people have no doubt put the disc back in the case and either gave it away, traded it in, or are just letting it collect dust on their shelf vowing to never buy a bioware title at release again.


In my position, I have decided to wait for bargain bin status for bioware titles from this point on. Dragon Age 2 was a sloppy mess, even though I enjoyed the Dwarf and his stories. Mass Effect 3 was a gigantic let down at the end which tarnished all three games to the point I feel physically ill thinking about making a new Shepard and starting from ME1.

Both titles were bought at premium first day rates and both disappointed on a level with a large enough magnitude for me NOT to replay them. ME3 was a 20 year old bottle of scotch until the last sip where it tasted like turpentine. DA2 was a domestic beer. It tasted okay, but it had a nasty aftertaste that made me switch back to the imported Bethesda brand.

Modifié par 20x6, 21 mars 2012 - 12:22 .

[Samzo77]

GBGriffin wrote...

They launched the endings as they intended with no plans for post-game DLC, which is the idea that appeals to so many followers. The indoctrination theory is a fan theory, created and fueled by the fans; BioWare hasn't confirmed it, and I personally don't expect them too.

Yeah, I agree with this. The only thing Bioware intended was to make us think and discuss, which seems to have worked.

A couple things I thought about this theory:
The writer asks why the key to the end would be built into the citadel. If you follow the conversations in the game you hear that incorporating the catalyst and the citadel came from the designers of the Crucible through many cycles of work. Perhaps you could argue people working on it were indoctrinated, so they suggested it.
The second question with this theory is why couldn't Shepard control the reapers? Just because TIM couldn't doesn't mean Shepard couldn't. The catalyst explains that TIM couldn't do it because he was indoctrinated. Someone they controlled couldn't control them. It doesn't mean that the catalyst wasn't lying, but it does make sense.

These don't disprove the theory, but they seem to make it less likely to me. I think there are answers to a lot of these issues throughout the game, if you look for them.

[Tiax Rules All]

The conclusion is what its all about right here. From end of article:

We, the players, were indoctrinated right alongside Shepard. And by sitting here and demanding that we have a different ending, we acknowledging that something is wrong. Something is broken. Something is not right. But instead of thinking that Bioware has done this deliberately to us, we swung immediately into rage and hate and slammed them for the decision.

We are raging that Bioware betrayed our trust.

But we didn’t trust them.

I, myself, am guilty of this. And now that I sit back and think about it, about the games, about Bioware, all I can say is if that this is right, if this is what Bioware intended… If the true ending is yet to come…

…. Bra. ****ing. Vo. Take my goddamn money.

[Gigerstreak]

Yes yes yes!!!!

[Cpt_Hook]

Another thing comes to my mind.
Compare ME3 to other Bioware Titles.
KotoR: You are Revan
Jade Empire: You get killed by your old Master which becomes Emperor (I like this one best)
ME1: Sovereign is no Ship
ME2: The Collectors are Prothean

Especially the first two have major twists but were limited by the technical capabilities of their time.

Imagine playing Jade Empire and getting killed by your Old Master after you conquered the Throne for him and defeated the evil emperor. The game ends now. That would be a bittersweet ending. Now imagine BW ending the game here and making a big surprise of an (free) twist. Perhaps they would have done it if they could. And with IT this works even better.
IT would fit well with BW story telling.

[Cadence of the Planes]

Some good points are made in an above post, but they are all arguable.

Fact 1: It's niche market suicide to make your fans pay for the 'proper ending' in the form of DLC. Making DLC to supplement the game is great, making DLC to make the game worth playing is market suicide. ME3 will be a snatch and run for EA. In the current market, cash is king. Risk is the plague that corporations are avoiding. Keep risk in mind when reading Fact 2.

 

It's not quite a 'fact' that they will charge - it might be a free DLC, who knows, but even if it it does cost $$, I'll fork it over, because I know that THEY know how to do the game correctly (case in point: the fantastically done conclusions to Tuchanka and Rannok). I suspect that even amongst the people who will initially rage about this, many will still purchase it. If it doesn't cost anything, then the rage will turn into joy. 

 Fact 2: Not everyone connects to the internet while playing Mass Effect. There are a lot of X-boxes, and PS3s that are not connected to a LAN cable out there. In X-Box land, there are a large majority of them not connected via a Gold account and a lot of them do not have a hard drive installed (X-box arcade version). Since XBox made up 70ish percent of the ME3 sales... do the risk assessment.   ---- EDIT Here-----  Also, when thinking of the business model risk assessment.  How bold would EA be with their stake-holder's cash to not only spend money developing Multiplayer, and also integrate Kinect functionality.... but ALSO screw with the ending?

  

But do most people have their Xbox/PS3 connected to the internet? Would it be difficult for one to do so if one already has internet at home? I get the sense that this isn't as huge an issue as you're making it out to be. I would imagine that at least those who play Multiplayer would do so.

 Fact 3: The first impression is the lasting impression. By the time they release this fabled indoctrination DLC, most people would have already played the game and most people have no doubt put the disc back in the case and either gave it away, traded it in, or are just letting it collect dust on their shelf vowing to never buy a bioware title at release again.

 

People are reactive and emotional (see: Rage at ME3 ending). A quick change of heart is not so farfetched if Bioware plays its cards right.

 In my position, I have decided to wait for bargain bin status for bioware titles from this point on. Dragon Age 2 was a sloppy mess, even though I enjoyed the Dwarf and his stories. Mass Effect 3 was a gigantic let down at the end which tarnished all three games to the point I feel physically ill thinking about making a new Shepard and starting from ME1.

 

See above 

 Both titles were bought at premium first day rates and both disappointed on a level with a large enough magnitude for me NOT to replay them. ME3 was a 20 year old bottle of scotch until the last sip where it tasted like turpentine. DA2 was a domestic beer. It tasted okay, but it had a nasty aftertaste that made me switch back to the imported Bethesda brand.

 

Eww.... Betesda? It's more roaming, less story. (Skyrim, Fallout3 just didn't have the same feel as ME)

Modifié par Cadence of the Planes, 21 mars 2012 - 01:44 .

[OntologicalShock]

Gods! What if Project Lazarus was using salvaged reaper tech all along? Shep was indoctrinated from within!

[LilaNoir]

It seems the thread picked up a bit of momentum when I was away. Just got home, tired, drained and nursing a massive headache, so please forgive me if I sound dumb.

Despite what you may or may not believe, these endless theories, arguments and discussions have been interesting and definitely worthwhile no matter what some of the naysayers think and spew. Such pessimism is not allowed in this thread! But then—you know—freedom of speech and all that. So post what you will. I enjoy reading different views and opinions.

But in all honesty, it is really quite amazing how much attention and activity the ending has garnered in just two
weeks. Bad publicity is still publicity and I’m curious what Bioware is planning. They have to be planning something.

Even if we are grasping at straws and making something out of completely nothing …that we should take the ending at face value because the writers can’t be that clever... whatever it is. Until Bioware’s official announcement informing the public that they have just properly trolled their fans and the real ending is yet to be released (and will be free, nicely packaged and sexy), rest assured, there will be more … [dramatic pause] speculatin’. And I must say I enjoy all these speculations.

In the meantime, seeing all this positive feedback, I attempted to contact the author of this brilliant and mind-blowing indoctrination write-up. (Who, by the way, deserves all the credit and not me. I'm simply a curator of fine ME indoctrination theories. Thanks, though.) Hopefully he or she will respond.

DEMIKLY wrote...

 That is the single best Indoctrinated Theory article to date.. easily.

Maybe change the title of this thread, as it belittles the greatness of that blog write up.. (and gets less hits than it deserves)

:wizard:

I'm glad to share it! I agree, I think an indoctrination theory of this nature warrants a better title. Any suggestions? My creative brain juice is gone.

Modifié par NanNoir, 21 mars 2012 - 03:40 .

[TheMadBlimper]

This is what I strongly believe will happen, and if/when that happens (sooner more preferable than later, in this case) Mass Effect will be elevated to "the Star Wars of this generation" status.