358 réponses à ce sujet

[syllogi]

Yeaaaah...I'm not at all convinced, especially since Casey Hudson's statement and Geoff Keighley's documentary app made it seem like they intend the endings to be taken at face value. This isn't David Lynch we're dealing with here.

I'd love it if a new ending DLC took the indoctrination theory and ran with it, but I won't believe it until I see it. Simply claiming that Bioware *doesn't* do this sort of thing, in regards to the massive plotholes and sloppy ending, isn't enough. They obviously do do this kind of ending, because that was what went out on the disc.

Modifié par syllogi, 20 mars 2012 - 05:03 .

[Erethrian]

ergonomalous wrote...

The other problem with the indoctrination theory is the stargazer scene. They are isolated on a planet that looks like the one in shepards indoc dream. They also do not have space travel. It just makes the ending feel like it's suppose to be taken at face value.

Think about this:

As stated through the entire series, there're entire systems still undiscovered/unexplored, and a lot of them (guessing now) could have primitive lifeforms. Remember that not every Mass Relay's been explored and that's why there're "scouts" who explore all the relays they find and its destinations. The stargazer's scene seems right to me. I think about it like two alien (or one, the granfather) lifeforms from a civilization that doesn't have space travel, and who actually finds one of Liara's boxes.

Modifié par Erethrian, 20 mars 2012 - 05:05 .

[kish]

I won't lose hope as long as BioWare refuses to do a real statement that says that they're 100% sure this is it, this is the ending. No promises about hearing more of Shepard and so on. Right now all we have is a statement that proves pretty much nothing to either side, and plenty of cryptic twitter messages.

[mghjr6]

As both a fan of Indoc theory and an unfortunately jaded realist, I have to point out a few small holes where I see them.

"- Why is the means to end the game (destroy, control, synthesis) built into the Citadel, a device that was created by the Reapers to trap the organic civilisations in each cycle?"

As the Star Child said, the whole Reaper thing wasn't working anymore. With each cycle, organics come closer to beating them. None the less, it is strange to provide a means to stop them, especially since the Reapers still would have won this cycle if Shep had not gone up on that platform.

"- If you’re standing at the point where the Citadel and the Crucible meet, why is Earth above your head, looming like a brilliant, cosmic reminder of what’s at stake, when Earth is really beneath you? The Citadel is pointed away from Earth."

Unfortunately, flat out incorrect. The Presidium ring was pointing toward Earth (specifically London) the whole time, and this is where the Crucible made contact.

Those are two tiny points that I saw as I looked over the whole thing. The rest is either incredible coincidence or powerful evidence.

[Purple People Eater]

Brilliant read OP.

[Dusty Arne]

Brilliant!!!! Amazing..

This gives me hope...


Also....


Now i understand why Bioware stated they will explain more of the ending soon.. but they want to give other players time to finnish the game.. Af course they want.

If this is what Bioware had planned all that time, then af course they want as much ppl to "enjoy" it..


If this is truly the truth, BioWare just accomplished the best ending of the best game in history..

[Onpoint17]

Brilliant! Thank you for taking the time to flesh out this theory. However, I have one issue that I'm not sure was addressed in the dissertation. On Thessia the Prothean VI detected an indoctrinated presence which was Kai Leng. I think that scene made it pretty clear that Shepard was not indoctrinated. I believe in the indoctrination theory but I don't think it had happened that early in the game.

The other thing to note which I haven't seen discussion about is a technical issue with the game itself. If you go back after the ending and start playing with the "legendary" Shepard you are right back at the Cerberus base. In fact this is the only permanent "auto save" the game creates through out the entire adventure. I believe this is key to the actual continuation of the "real" story playing out when additional content is released.

I still can't accept that this is the ending that Bioware intended, There must be more to this. Even more bizarre is that they could have diffused all this anger and confusion if they just said something to us at the start. It didn't have to include spoilers if in fact they were waiting for more people to finish the game. Just something short and re-assuring like "things aren't what they seem". "Relax. There's more to come." "We wouldn't leave our loyal fans hanging like this."

[beyzend]

could someone summarize this for me? What are the main differences between this and the original indoc. theory? I will read it later.

[Erethrian]

beyzend wrote...

could someone summarize this for me? What are the main differences between this and the original indoc. theory? I will read it later.

"What blew my goddamn mind…

The point of the ending of Mass Effect 3 isn’t to
show that Shepard has been indoctrinated, at least, that’s no longer how
I see it. And it isn’t some quasai-intellectual, pseudo-philosophical
moment where we are prompted to contemplate the future of the galaxy,
and make up our own ending. Bioware does not do that. We were
literally meant to sit back, stare at the screen, and go ‘why would
Bioware do this?’ Not ‘Bioware a ****ing ****s who deserve to burn’,
but ‘why would a company so renowned for loving its fans, and who make
such wonderful stories, do this to us?’ We’re meant to wonder the reason
why we were deliberately handed this ending.

You see, what we forget as we play through is that the only
perspective we have is Commander Shepard’s. Some of us may not think of
it that way, but that is the case. We only see what he or she sees, and
we only perceive as he or she perceives. And Shepard would only know
something was wrong with his or her own mind if we saw it.

What is the point of having an indoctrinated character if the person directing them knows they are indoctrinated? Shepard isn’t the only person that has been indoctrinated. We
have. We didn’t see the subtle hints. Shepard didn’t notice the signs,
and so we didn’t notice them. We were too caught up in saving Earth,
just like Shepard. If Shepard had said, “Something’s wrong”, we would
have noticed. We might have guessed. We would have gone straight for the
‘right’ option, regardless of what Bioware may have intended for the
end. But because we were left with the idea that the control and
synthesis options were the best options, we blindly moved towards them.
Directed Shepard toward them.

And the Reapers win.

We, the players, were indoctrinated right
alongside Shepard. And by sitting here and demanding that we have a
different ending, we acknowledging that something is wrong. Something is
broken. Something is not right. But instead of thinking that Bioware
has done this deliberately to us, we swung immediately into rage and hate and slammed them for the decision.

We are raging that Bioware betrayed our trust.

But we didn’t trust them.

I, myself, am guilty of this. And now that I sit
back and think about it, about the games, about Bioware, all I can say
is if that this is right, if this is what Bioware intended… If the true ending is yet to come…

…. Bra. ****ing. Vo. Take my goddamn money."

Modifié par Erethrian, 20 mars 2012 - 05:12 .

[Cadence of the Planes]

GBGriffin wrote...

They launched the endings as they intended with no plans for post-game DLC, which is the idea that appeals to so many followers. The indoctrination theory is a fan theory, created and fueled by the fans; BioWare hasn't confirmed it, and I personally don't expect them too.

I do expect them to.


I can't be sure about it though, but neither can you. I guess we'll just have to wait and see.

[Sylvanfeather]

SpelMalmer wrote...

It would be glorious if the went back to Drew's original dark energy thing after this.

My guess is that if they do continue forward in the ME universe, we'll see this return in the next installment.

Bioware has said that the trilogy will end Shepard's story and deal with the Reapers, once and for all. They're going to need some kind of big threat for the (next) series.

[jmacrosoft]

Watch the DLC be an outside view of someone close to Shepard so you can see that he was sucked in by the reapers. This was very well written though. I'm hoping BioWare did this on purpose to blow our effing minds. *crosses fingers*

[Jaraldur]

Nice read!

I hope this is what they intended, lots of speculation from everyone, theories, discussions, defenders and attackers about the "endings", but... the bad thing... is the bad/good press and reviews about this, i don't know if they intended this situation, and how are they going to repair it without lose some of the fanbase...  

Yeah, maybe dlcs or a great expansion (oh... how i miss the "old" expansions ) but i can't imagine a "free" ending dlc, maybe because EA.

 I really like the game, but the ending... this ending... true or not... breaks all ME universe, all the rest of the game is great (yeah some plot holes, but because the rush of the reapers...  really forgot them until the "end" [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/grin.png[/smilie]) 

If they intended to fragment the story in the LAST game of Shepard, at least a warning about this or the game a bit cheaper because what really ****** me off about this is if they want to charge more for the "complete" game through dlc... after buying the deluxe edition from Origin because I paid for a game with a complete MAIN story, not a fragmented one. 

PD: sorry if my english is bad 

[DeathScepter]

interesting and if it was true, it broke the 4th wall and the Reapers are powerful indeed

Modifié par DeathScepter, 20 mars 2012 - 05:21 .

[Nenomitrosis]

The reapers victory is the tale I will remember, it is more apealing and makes more sense

[bytemarks]

Dusty Boy T wrote...

If this is what Bioware had in mind, they'd better fess up pretty soon. They're not making many friends by staying quiet...

They wont make friends by spoiling the game for the many, many people who haven't finished it yet, either.

Modifié par bytemarks, 20 mars 2012 - 05:21 .

[beyzend]

This is not so different from original indoc. thread. In that thread it was also mentioned that the player, by choosing any option other than destroy, is indoctrinated.

[ergonomalous]

Erethrian wrote...

ergonomalous wrote...

The other problem with the indoctrination theory is the stargazer scene. They are isolated on a planet that looks like the one in shepards indoc dream. They also do not have space travel. It just makes the ending feel like it's suppose to be taken at face value.

Think about this:

As stated through the entire series, there're entire systems still undiscovered/unexplored, and a lot of them (guessing now) could have primitive lifeforms. Remember that not every Mass Relay's been explored and that's why there're "scouts" who explore all the relays they find and its destinations. The stargazer's scene seems right to me. I think about it like two alien (or one, the granfather) lifeforms from a civilization that doesn't have space travel, and who actually finds one of Liara's boxes.

fair enough. i am too negetive so i will accept this positive analysis. to counter my initial arguement the stargeezer does say that their any number of possibilities so the possibility of life on a planet that shepard imagined is therefore possible.

[Sylvanfeather]

bytemarks wrote...

Dusty Boy T wrote...

If this is what Bioware had in mind, they'd better fess up pretty soon. They're not making many friends by staying quiet...

They wont make friends by spoiling the game for the many, many people who haven't finished it yet, either.

Or with the people that like the current ending(s).

It's kind of a "damned if they do, damned if they don't" scenario now.

Modifié par Sylvanfeather, 20 mars 2012 - 05:23 .

[MadRabbit999]

vivaladricas wrote...

 When we finally catch up to the boy in the third sequence, the boy is embraced by Commander Shepard, and both burn. But neither scream. Neither struggle. Neither are afraid. Both just stare at Commander Shepard. And before anyone objects, a face’s expression isn’t just what it is in a video game. It is a conscious decision of what it is not. If you embrace the child, you burn.

The last couple sentences sort of dont make sense what the perosn is trying to say.  The rest of the article I read I totally agree with though.  I dont know about brainwashing the player per-say, but it would be very weird if they left the actual ending in a hold while people have been getting pissed, making returns, and losing out on a lot of sales. I cant see companys do this.  I hope they are I really do, but it doesnt make sense.  Also if its paid DLC that means it is an intentionally gimped release of a product.  That gets into DOJ waters.  Its a fact its an unfinished release if so.  I'd probably pay anyway, haha. 

I would have preferred a roll credits with all of us like WTF???  Then after the credits you get another 3-5 hours of gameplay and that would have been remarkable.  Left you feeling empty inside then turn right around and finish the real ending.  Uncover the brainwahsing then, no a month later, a lot of folks will lose interest.  Risky stuff if this turns out to be true.  

Embracing the child you burn? IS that the part you did not understand?

To me it means, if you embrace the idea of the child.. what he is telling you (Lies), you will die.

Do what the child is suggesting, and you will fail, do what the child is discouraging (destroy the reapers), you will live.

Modifié par MadRabbit999, 20 mars 2012 - 05:28 .

[NReed106]

Lots of speculation for everyone!

[ergonomalous]

i would also like to add to the indoctrination theory. sorry if it has been said but...

The image of the galaxy being affected by relay explosions is the same as the one in the normandy. it is an easiest image for him to conjure since he is always staring at it.

also, People complaining about the lack of options in choices and actions could be due to the effect of indoctrination.