127 réponses à ce sujet

[Sylvius the Mad]

Volourn wrote...

"BG2 failed to live up to BG's standard."

The fact you prefer BG1 to BG2 says everything I need to know why you like BG2 more than DA.

I don't prefer BG2 to DAO.  I see the two games as generally equivalent in terms of quality.  BG2 and DAO have very similar structure and roleplaying freedom.  The nature of the companion characters is also very similar.  BG2 was the first BioWare game to treat the companions and the PC as different types of entities, and DAO maintains that distinction.

I think that distinction was a mistake.

[SheffSteel]

Disappointed?

This too will pass.



At the end of the day, Dragon Age has graphics which are neither cutting edge nor hopelessly dated; they're just about right. There's plenty of scope for people with older machines to play the game, and those who can max out the detail settings don't have anything to complain about - of course, some people LIKE to complain, but that's them.

[toronto13]

DogFaceMan_ac wrote...

Like the title says. I feel this game was a major disappointment, and here's why:

-The graphics (on pc) are horrible. i have them at max and they look like nwn 2 and sometimes even worse. That wouldn't be so bad if the animations didn't look like they were taken from nwn 1. Everything from the way people's lips move to how characters run looks old and pathetic. After how good Mass Effect looked (yes i realize they are slightly different styles of game which different engines but still), i expected at least as good a looking game

LOL,nwn2 graphics are better.......-

The characters i've encountered so far are boring. Totally uninteresting in every way. I realize this is a matter of personal preference, but considering Biowares previous games, it is one of the more disappointing aspects of this game.

 HUH,then you should try Fallout3,if  DA characters are boring after playing F3 you will try to kill yourself. 

[Shappy1010]

Wretched Gnu wrote...

Shappy1010 wrote...

Wretched Gnu wrote...

People who complain about DA's graphics have zero concept of art design.  They are visually crippled people who can only see pixels and "photorealism," but have no conception of design.

You just have to laugh when people claim that the totally unimaginative, poorly-conceived design of Oblivion or Crysis is better than Dragon Age's.  Most of DA's interiors and architecture blow away anything in those games.

If you thing DA's visual world is poorly evoked, you're probably one of those people who think a Tom and Jerry cartoon is superior to a Rembrandt painting because it's animated and has more color. 

Yet after finishing DAO I started my second run of Mass Effect. I was immediately clear how much better this game looks, animation, textures, lighting, shadow, it's all a notch above DAO.

You're talking about rendering.  As do most who complain about DA's graphics, you may think the visual environment is only about rendering.   This is what I mean about people who have no concept of art design.  All they see are pixels -- as apparently does this guy:

It looks good on its own, but compared to other AAA titles it is a bit weak.

Elevating rendering over art design is like preferring Speed Racer to da Vinci beause it's more sparkly.

Actually I think you are wrong in this, the artwork from DAO is somewhat uninspiring, some buildings and scenes looks like they were literally taken out of the lotr films, the dungeons look pretty bland, and not really different to other RPGs like NWN2 for example, whilst the towns are not much different to those of the The Witcher. Mass Effect's overall design is simply stunning, the Presidium looks amazing and some of the work on the aliens is fantastic. Ostagar was the only place in DAO which I thought was a bit impressive, but that was about it. Even the animations and character's expression are much more stiff in DAO, for a game which has so much content on dialog I thought it was a bit dissapointing, knowing Bioware can do better. .

Not saying I prefer Mass Effect over DAO. Just saying DAO didn't blow me away with it's novel looks or art design. I just know Bioware can do better.

Modifié par Shappy1010, 01 décembre 2009 - 09:50 .

[EmperorGruumm]

I agree with OP, the graphics I could care less either way. It was the first game I bought on release day in almost a year and I found myself regretting it almost immediately. I am fairly certain Batman: Arkham Asylum was the best game I've played all year and this one is the worst.

[Wretched Gnu]

EmperorGruumm wrote...

I agree with OP, the graphics I could care less either way. It was the first game I bought on release day in almost a year and I found myself regretting it almost immediately. I am fairly certain Batman: Arkham Asylum was the best game I've played all year and this one is the worst.

Batman, eh...?  Well, clearly you should stick to arcade games and avoid tactical RPGs....

[DarthRic]

toronto13 wrote...
 HUH,then you should try Fallout3,if  DA characters are boring after playing F3 you will try to kill yourself. 

better yet try playing oblivion

[Shallina]

Rabid fanboy that can't see that see game is more a hype machine than a real blockbuster game.

Combat balance is a total failure. You got a single class that is more powerfull than all the other together. Bring a mage for playing and the other for the banters. Fun fight is a part of this type of game, but fight aren't fun in DAO since the only class that can really fight is the mage.

The screen is blured with poor lightning and poor texture to hide the many graphics shortcoming so the game can run on an XBOX with 560 MB ram. I got more than 1700 MB of ram just on my Graphic card and i still have to play that game as if i had only 500 mb of ram when my PC can use up to 5 GIG....

The monster are uninspired for most of them. BIOWARE should have worked more on their game instead of the hype machine. DAO is just a descent game but nothing more, it's not worth that hudge price.

For a game that came at the end of 2009, how can they still use tiny area everywhere ? IT's more than 5 years now since game started to have no AREA transition.

They should have made that game a consol only game or a PC only game. The only result is that now I'll be very cautious before buying a crossplatform game.

Modifié par Shallina, 02 décembre 2009 - 01:07 .

[GHL_Soul_Reaver]

Eurypterid wrote...

There's no need to toss insults at the OP just because he's expressing an opinion you happen to disagree with.

For the record, I thought the game looks very similar to Mass Effect as far as graphics go, and in some cases much better. I guess that shows that tastes differ.

As for the characters, I feel there are some truly great NPCs in the game. How many have you run into and have you explored some of their stories?

The deluxe edition also included Warden's Keep, so you didn't pay for just the couple extra items. As to the fact that two of them are at merchants, I confess that threw me as well, as I thought they'd be free to your character.

Oi I want to quote you on one point... about the graphics point that is, why use low resolution textures in the PC version when it is clear that many PCs now a day could handle much much more, it is a pain to watch 256x256 textures when we easely could handle 2048x2048 in some aspects, I would say it is really a downfall that teh community has to create the really good looks on teh PC rather than Bioware, none offense meant, but it would be nice to have the option to switch between texture resolution in options as we could with previous bioware games on PC by default and not having to replace them ourself with a custom made modification of the textures.

Just implent it as an option within game options that can done in or outside the game, alot of people would appreciate it for sure.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Higher quality textures would require they be downscaled at distances, and I always find that ring of detail around the camera really distracting.

I'm glad they didn't do that.

[imran shah]

Bug galore?

I have not witnessed 1 bug through the entire game, but i have read alot of ppl saying that there are manye bugs :S

[DogFaceMan_ac]

First of all i would like to thank all those who have come to my defense or atleast replied critically without resorting to name calling (perhaps many people misunderstand the manner of a critical reply).



Firstly, the graphics are bad. Technically, they are clearly poor for a big budget game of 2009, and or after all the calls of nostalgia or ignorance, i did start up NWN 2 again, and it does in my opinion look just as good and sometimes better then DAO (although i have a computer able to run it in the highest detail, which perhaps some of you don't).



Another poster makes a good point about good graphics being more then just technically advanced, but artistically special. I agree with him at that point but feel that DAO fails to live up to that mark on either basis. Once again NWN 2 wins over DAO artistically, and in terms of dark and gritty (which i don't really see in DAO unless they mean revealing clothes and excessive blood splatter), Vagrant Story, and old ps1 game did it far more convincingly on much weaker hardware. DAO is bland and uninspiring.



Despite the assumptions of many posters, i am a pc and rpg gamer. I have played for over 20 years on pcs with rpgs being some of my earliest favourite games. And while people might try and argue that DAO has nothing in common with WoW, Oblivion and even fallout or console rpgs, they are incorrect. The primary purpose of an rpg is to draw you in with an engaging story and characters, which i feel DAO has largely failed to provide. Tactical combat is also another staple of the genre and while i prefer turn based to real time, or semi real time, i have enjoyed this style of combat in the past in the NWN games, though perhaps my extensive knowledge of the rules due to playing the pen and paper version has helped me enjoy this style of combat more in those games.



My objection to the dlc is that it isn't (to my knowledge) made clear before buying the game that you don't automatically recieve them. Had this information been made clearer i would be less concerned about it regardless of how you come by it (and i agree that a special quest to obtain the item would be far more interesting). I also feel that the extra quests such as soldier's peak and the stone warder were far to short and almost pointless to even bother with paying for,



I will leave my comments at that for now, but will continue to follow this thread as i continue to play the game and hope that my persistence is rewarded.

[VanDraegon]

So be it. Yours is a very small minority opinion though, on just about every point you mentioned.

[CJohnJones]

IMHO the graphics are so-so. I am not sure how anyone could really defend the graphics overall or the art in particular (which are sort of two different things). The graphics are dated, but only by a couple of years. A quick look at the (inferior) game Risen shows you what they could have done with the environments. Even Morrowind had nicer surroundings.



Still, DAO is one of the best games I have ever played. Up there with the Fallouts. Graphics aren't everything.

[VanDraegon]

People are not defending the graphics as much as they are saying that the graphics dont really matter as much when compared to the story. Complaints of the OP to the contrary, Bioware has crafted a great story, with compelling characters and a deep world for this game. Once a player gets involved into the game and setting, the graphics being a few years old doesnt matter much at all.

[Hakumen000]

Shappy1010 wrote...

[

Actually I think you are wrong in this, the artwork from DAO is somewhat uninspiring, some buildings and scenes looks like they were literally taken out of the lotr films, the dungeons look pretty bland, and not really different to other RPGs like NWN2 for example, whilst the towns are not much different to those of the The Witcher. Mass Effect's overall design is simply stunning, the Presidium looks amazing and some of the work on the aliens is fantastic. Ostagar was the only place in DAO which I thought was a bit impressive, but that was about it. Even the animations and character's expression are much more stiff in DAO, for a game which has so much content on dialog I thought it was a bit dissapointing, knowing Bioware can do better. .

Not saying I prefer Mass Effect over DAO. Just saying DAO didn't blow me away with it's novel looks or art design. I just know Bioware can do better.

This is true. The level design of this game is mediocre. The dialoges are very good, but the ambients are ultra GENERIC. C'mon the problem isnt the low resolution textures, but the number of ambients and the lack of models. Looks like the game is incomplete...

Lets get two good example for a capital design: Baldur gate or/and Athkatla. Even Neverwinter is one hundred times better than Denerim, because Demerin looks a Slum city. Really, all houses of the game are like from slums, even the noble houses... We get even 3 floor slum house in Denerim ha ha ha... Even the castle is made of stone like the houses and the worst with the same hatefull textures...

Thats the problem of dragon age, the writters are very good but the bioware developer team is really VERY BAD, they work looks more a bigger mod than a professional game.

Please Bioware release new areas in dlc with new textures, because the work of the dragon age team isnt good... And request the area design guys to play or look some images from Baldur gate 1 or 2, even Nwn 2 gives betters variation than the low number of houses that we get in this game.

A image of baldur gate city :http://www.infinetivity.com/~jch/bg/bg-citymap.jpg   .

One hunder times better than the generic-similar to every computer rpg city of Denerim...

[Realmzmaster]

All complaints about graphics . story etc aside. At the end of the day the only thing a game designer, developer or publisher is going to ask is did I please most of my audience. The numbers will tell the story, everything else is secondary. It seems that BioWare has a winner.

[Hakumen000]

Realmzmaster wrote...

All complaints about graphics . story etc aside. At the end of the day the only thing a game designer, developer or publisher is going to ask is did I please most of my audience. The numbers will tell the story, everything else is secondary. It seems that BioWare has a winner.

Fanboy detected...

With this way of thinking Nintendogs is better game released because selled 20 million and Fanmitsu gived 40/40...
C'mon, dont make fool of us. Even if a game selles goes well dont make the game perfect.  The same apply to review, because some reviews give rate better to the games gbecause of the sponsor for the site/magazine.

Anyway, we will have a dragon age 2 or one or two expansions. What we want is have a better game with some things added like new models and textures for houses, bigger and inspired cities, new game mecanics basead in p'n'p dragon age (i dont know why Bioware dont basead the mecanics in dragon age pen and paper rpg, i'm liking a lot the new systen basead in 3d6), better animations, and more...

Look the problem isnt the enigne itself, but the lack of creativity of de area designers of Bioware and the few, or none, inovations in this game...

Dragon age = Neverwinter nights 2.5 (without paying copyrights, because dont use d&d systen, and  online multyplayer). In other words a very Hypped game, but in the realyte a very limited game. Looks more a great mod than a game itself because the lack of "polish".

Sorry to say the truth, i liked a lot the game in the dialogues, the audio, voiceactors, the chancve of new world without that much of influence of gods like in Forgotten, the tactics systen (very similar to gambit systen of FF XII, and because of this very good. If they created a thing that works why dont use it ?) the toolset itself, but hated modles of houses with the same repetitive textures and without health constructions (c'mon poor people dont have a 3 floor house...) and the design of the Denerin is patetic, all the houses look the same. The andraste church horrible too, c'mon  all church have money to build great/big places with luxury, wheres is the marble places, the mecanics that i cant calculate the damage that i will done to the enemys (if the game is the spiritual sucessor of Baldur Gate, we need mecanics of rpg in the toolset, c'mon we will receive the mecanics in December i casnt believe that the rules arent created before the game is released...), some animations, some trees (some trees are ok some are horrible, if we have have this horribly trees why make so much places with trees or why to use this trees in Osgamar), etc.

some information of dragon age mecanics of pnp rpg:
http://greenronin.co...sign_diary3.php

Modifié par Hakumen000, 02 décembre 2009 - 04:50 .

[Realmzmaster]

Hakumen000 wrote...

Realmzmaster wrote...

All complaints about graphics . story etc aside. At the end of the day the only thing a game designer, developer or publisher is going to ask is did I please most of my audience. The numbers will tell the story, everything else is secondary. It seems that BioWare has a winner.

Fanboy detected...

Be very careful who you call a fanboy. Since you know absolutely nothing about me and I have probably been playing CRPG and RPG longer than many people on this forum. How many of you played the original Akalabeth on cassette tape? I know what I like. My bookcase is a who's who of CRPGs both good and bad. I speak from experience. Keep your fanboy tag to yourself.

Modifié par Realmzmaster, 03 décembre 2009 - 08:31 .

[Auraad]

VanDraegon wrote...

So be it. Yours is a very small minority opinion though, on just about every point you mentioned.

Wrong. Neutrally speaking, the graphics ARE bad (lets put it that way: could have been much better). Most reviews (the seriouse ones that matter, at least) mentioned this along with a few other major parts.
I've played CRPGs that came out BEFORE DA:O and had better graphics ... sad that Bioware can't match with them.
We're in the f*ck*g 21st century g*d d*m it.

However, I still like the game - graphics are not that important (*to me*) HOWEVER! the OP had VALID points! You possibly can't deny them.

[Hakumen000]

Realmzmaster wrote...

Hakumen000 wrote...

Realmzmaster wrote...

All complaints about graphics . story etc aside. At the end of the day the only thing a game designer, developer or publisher is going to ask is did I please most of my audience. The numbers will tell the story, everything else is secondary. It seems that BioWare has a winner.

Fanboy detected...

Be very careful who you call a fanboy. Since you know absolutely nothing about me and I have probably been playing CRPG and RPG longer than many people on this forum. How many of you played the original Akalabeth on cassette tape? I know what I like. My bookcase is a who's who of CRPGs both good and bad. I speak from experience. Keep your fanboy tag to yourself.

Sorry, but older people have better arguments ? By the way, when you talk that mass opinion makes a game good, i cant accpet this as no less than a fanboy argument with interest in protect the beloved game. If isnt what you whanted to say, sorry. But the way you writhe and where you write makes me think that all of us is losing time in this topic (ok this may be true, but i like to show my point and i expect the right to do it).

With this in mind, even if you say that played more old rpg than me, this make you arguments better ? Cmon when i say that Denerim isnt a good work of area design i expect to hear arguments because you or anyware think that is a good design, not weak falacies ad hominem because i'm better or i'm older than you... Anyway, i'm not that young...

If you dislike my post, show why you dislike with arguments.

Ending my post, even baldur gate isnt that to good rpg. You can look the list of 100 best games of all time and his position. Even i think that planescape torment is better, but anyway the are very good games, but have they restrictions too. They have more virtues than defects, dragon age have defects than virtues maybe... i dont know i dont calculed anyway.

[Realmzmaster]

Which serious reviews matter? The ones that agree or diagree with your position? Reviews by nature are subjective. Just because you think the graphics are bad (or could be better) is not necessarily the opinion of others. I read every review with a grain of salt, because it is seen through the lense of one person. The question becomes do all the reviewers say the graphics are bad? Does everyone say the game stinks? If I just depended on reviews I would have missed out on a lot of good movies, books and games in my opinion.

[thegreateski]

Hakumen000 wrote...

Sorry, but older people have better arguments ?

Yes.

It's called experience.

[LGWu]

Kay

Here is my 9 cents [inflation gave me MY number]

No it is not BG/2. It is something else. That something is more like NwN2 which i have played through twice with all expansions [a billionair in Zahir lol]
Bg2 was and to me still is the standard.
Minsc became part of my lexicon.
I kicked butt for goodness. Even more than ultima 4 to 8. BG2 was IT
[what. no Hoe of destruction. ah well]

DragonAge drives me silly. All the experience these designers have and still my top down view is blocked by an archway or such . Literally in my 3rd replaying i do chantry get the backsteet hoods.
and my view is blocked and when i rotate view it jumps all over it cant be where i want it.. this sux.
So i have to flip to steet level mode and do it from there. When you have 15 dudes ganking you on hard mode you dont need the pain of trying to find best viewpoint. Thank the maker for Morrigan and aoe blizzard. Later with lightning storm on blizzard she is worth her weight in collapsium.

DragonAge as one reviewer pointed out is a homeric epic. Not a freeform saga.
This is pretty much spot on..
You can literally do no wrong.. even if you try.
The blurb about open morality is rubbish
I wanted to be a **** and cannot sack sten the ******.
II wanted to tell allistair that pillow fights at the monestry we cool lead ins to pole licking... lol
[kidding dudes]
We are led down a path
Determinism rules
Yes in BG we end up at that same place.. but there is SO MUCH more to do to get there.
What saves it all is the brilliance of the commentary.
Between Morrigan Allistair and Liliana
And lines like.. ooh he's not mangy [ to doggy]
Works of art in gaming that one is.

Vaya con Dios  [any spoilers in there?.. pls point out if so]

Modifié par LGWu, 04 décembre 2009 - 09:21 .

[Realmzmaster]

No, mass opinion makes a game successful if most of the audience likes it. Yes playing more CRPGs over a period of decades gives one experience in both good and bad games. It also allows me to form my opinion of what I like and do not like. YMMV. Also, I do not label people without knowing anything about them. I give my opinion. I like the game and I am getting my money's worth. In the end that is all that matters. The only opinion that matters to me is my own.