133 réponses à ce sujet

[ztonkin]

Watching the footage from Arrival, it seems to me that the first sign that something was amiss was Kenson's eyes glowing like that. That's kind of odd, isn't it? I doubt her eyes were actually glowing....just like Harbinger's...

[jspiess]

F'ing awesome video that pulled together all the thoughts that were in myhead

[K_Tabris]

This is a pretty sweet video.

I just wish th execution of the ending showed us a little more of this, especially in a way that would create intrigue among fans, not so much shck and frustration. If cleverly done, this ending could have been epic.

[Rusty0918]

Claym0re wrote...

After watching the video the only 4 things supporting this theory are the following:

1. The trees
2. The citadel inner design
3. Hackett radio calling
4. Shepard being alive only if you go for the "renegade" option

The rest can be easily explained the other way aorund. Personally I like the indoctrination theory (even thou if it turns out to be true I was indoctrinated )

What? You mean you didn't see the "tentacle" like oily distorted visions on the Citadel in the video, which the Rachni queen mentioned in ME1? There's no way Anderson could have gotten on the Citadel. The evidence is extremely compelling for indoctrination, Claym0re.

[Jonathon Kuhlman]

Vigil_N7 wrote...

Jonathon Kuhlman wrote...

Vigil_N7 wrote...

The video still doesn't explain, if shepard does give into indoctrination, why we witness the reapers leaving earth, why we witness the mass relays exploding, why we witness Joker trying to escape the explosion, and why we witness the normandy crash land on some random planet.

It also leaves us with more questions than answers, and even less closure. If it was true, then it shows Bioware rushed the ending because the game should've continued after shepard breaks indoctrination. It doesn't however.

You either didn't watch all of the video, or you need to watch it again. It truly explains all and you should have little to no questions after watching the whole thing. Sheperd never actually went up to the citadel, all of that was the Reapers trying to Indoctrinate his mind. If you choose to destroy the Reapers then you beat their Indoctrination attempts, and Sheperd is still alive and himself down on Earth covored by some rubble in London after the Reaper blast. Joker escaping with your squad is just Sheperd having a nice dream to put his mind at ease because he believes they are safe.

I watched it all. I also watched the previous one he made as well. It still doesn't explain why the reapers leave earth if shepard submits to indoctrination, and why the mass relays are shown to explode. 

If shepard dreamt of the normandy escaping to put his mind at rest, why did he dream about the mass relays exploding? Why would he of dreamt of the catalyst/citadel exploding? 

I really don't think you watched the video or read what I wrote, if you did, then I just don't know about you. When Sheperd is running down to the beam and Harbinger blasts him, he goes unconcious, and everything that happens after that is the Reapers attempts at fully indoctrinating him, a dream, or some abstract creation of the mind. No matter what you choose on the Citadel, the only real difference is Red, Green, or Blue but that doesn't really happen, you see? That is happening while he is unconcious still on Earth burried underneath of some rubble. Please tell me you get this now.

[RafaelBRms]

Ok, letme see if i understand.
.
The scene were show the Reaper's being destroid its Shepard mind, slowly recovery from the indrocrination atempt.
.
Then, the othes ends with the Reapers leaving Earth, its real, an show the Reapers leaving Earth to continue the batle in space and on the others planets.
.
But, the scene with the Normandy i dont know o.O
.
Yes, my english its a p*** of s**** :-D

[NeroSparda]

Jonathon Kuhlman wrote...

Vigil_N7 wrote...

Jonathon Kuhlman wrote...

Vigil_N7 wrote...

The video still doesn't explain, if shepard does give into indoctrination, why we witness the reapers leaving earth, why we witness the mass relays exploding, why we witness Joker trying to escape the explosion, and why we witness the normandy crash land on some random planet.

It also leaves us with more questions than answers, and even less closure. If it was true, then it shows Bioware rushed the ending because the game should've continued after shepard breaks indoctrination. It doesn't however.

You either didn't watch all of the video, or you need to watch it again. It truly explains all and you should have little to no questions after watching the whole thing. Sheperd never actually went up to the citadel, all of that was the Reapers trying to Indoctrinate his mind. If you choose to destroy the Reapers then you beat their Indoctrination attempts, and Sheperd is still alive and himself down on Earth covored by some rubble in London after the Reaper blast. Joker escaping with your squad is just Sheperd having a nice dream to put his mind at ease because he believes they are safe.

I watched it all. I also watched the previous one he made as well. It still doesn't explain why the reapers leave earth if shepard submits to indoctrination, and why the mass relays are shown to explode. 

If shepard dreamt of the normandy escaping to put his mind at rest, why did he dream about the mass relays exploding? Why would he of dreamt of the catalyst/citadel exploding? 

I really don't think you watched the video or read what I wrote, if you did, then I just don't know about you. When Sheperd is running down to the beam and Harbinger blasts him, he goes unconcious, and everything that happens after that is the Reapers attempts at fully indoctrinating him, a dream, or some abstract creation of the mind. No matter what you choose on the Citadel, the only real difference is Red, Green, or Blue but that doesn't really happen, you see? That is happening while he is unconcious still on Earth burried underneath of some rubble. Please tell me you get this now.

So that means that the chance of defeating the Reapers are gone and that Mass Effect 3 doesn't end Shepard's story. Or hell, maybe the indocination is a possible distraction so if Shepard loses to it, they win since the threat is gone. If Shepard wins, it doesn't matter as the Reapers would have bought enough time to get the Citadel out of there and possibly wipe out the entire army you spent the whole game building.

[K_Tabris]

So, according to the indoctrination theory, you guys think the exploding Mass Relays are all just in Shepard's head?

[Rusty0918]

NovinhaShepard wrote...

So, according to the indoctrination theory, you guys think the exploding Mass Relays are all just in Shepard's head?

Exactly. It was to give Shepard a sense of satisfaction. The whole Normandy crashing on native planet also never happened. In short, everything from where Sheapard was hit with the beam by Harbinger up to the point you wake up in the Destroy ending (if you have high enough EMS) was all part of the "dream sequence." Not quite sure about the grandpa story thing...but...that doesn't invalidate the rest of the indoc. theory.

[NeroSparda]

Rusty0918 wrote...

NovinhaShepard wrote...

So, according to the indoctrination theory, you guys think the exploding Mass Relays are all just in Shepard's head?

Exactly. It was to give Shepard a sense of satisfaction. The whole Normandy crashing on native planet also never happened. In short, everything from where Sheapard was hit with the beam by Harbinger up to the point you wake up in the Destroy ending (if you have high enough EMS) was all part of the "dream sequence." Not quite sure about the grandpa story thing...but...that doesn't invalidate the rest of the indoc. theory.

But why would the Reapers indocinate Shepard? He is a great risk to their plan. He have proven time and time again that he can do the impossible. Why wouldn't they just kill him?

Modifié par NeroSparda, 20 mars 2012 - 08:02 .

[Rusty0918]

NeroSparda wrote...

Jonathon Kuhlman wrote...

Vigil_N7 wrote...

Jonathon Kuhlman wrote...

Vigil_N7 wrote...

The video still doesn't explain, if shepard does give into indoctrination, why we witness the reapers leaving earth, why we witness the mass relays exploding, why we witness Joker trying to escape the explosion, and why we witness the normandy crash land on some random planet.

It also leaves us with more questions than answers, and even less closure. If it was true, then it shows Bioware rushed the ending because the game should've continued after shepard breaks indoctrination. It doesn't however.

You either didn't watch all of the video, or you need to watch it again. It truly explains all and you should have little to no questions after watching the whole thing. Sheperd never actually went up to the citadel, all of that was the Reapers trying to Indoctrinate his mind. If you choose to destroy the Reapers then you beat their Indoctrination attempts, and Sheperd is still alive and himself down on Earth covored by some rubble in London after the Reaper blast. Joker escaping with your squad is just Sheperd having a nice dream to put his mind at ease because he believes they are safe.

I watched it all. I also watched the previous one he made as well. It still doesn't explain why the reapers leave earth if shepard submits to indoctrination, and why the mass relays are shown to explode. 

If shepard dreamt of the normandy escaping to put his mind at rest, why did he dream about the mass relays exploding? Why would he of dreamt of the catalyst/citadel exploding? 

I really don't think you watched the video or read what I wrote, if you did, then I just don't know about you. When Sheperd is running down to the beam and Harbinger blasts him, he goes unconcious, and everything that happens after that is the Reapers attempts at fully indoctrinating him, a dream, or some abstract creation of the mind. No matter what you choose on the Citadel, the only real difference is Red, Green, or Blue but that doesn't really happen, you see? That is happening while he is unconcious still on Earth burried underneath of some rubble. Please tell me you get this now.

So that means that the chance of defeating the Reapers are gone and that Mass Effect 3 doesn't end Shepard's story. Or hell, maybe the indocination is a possible distraction so if Shepard loses to it, they win since the threat is gone. If Shepard wins, it doesn't matter as the Reapers would have bought enough time to get the Citadel out of there and possibly wipe out the entire army you spent the whole game building.

He might have fought off Reaper indoctrination but that doesn't mean the story is over. There's a lot of compelling evidence to suggest that what BioWare did was "trick us" with those choices. Most of the people who loved the ending chose Synthesis, which like Control, plays right dab smack into the Reapers' hands. Those ME twitter messages about us holding onto our ME3 saves, discs, whatever suggests that there's more than what we're seeing. Granted of course they miscalcuated with this gamble, and will soon need to step forth and come clean should the pressure continue.

[RLesueur]

Claym0re wrote...

After watching the video the only 4 things supporting this theory are the following:

1. The trees
2. The citadel inner design
3. Hackett radio calling
4. Shepard being alive only if you go for the "renegade" option

The rest can be easily explained the other way aorund. Personally I like the indoctrination theory (even thou if it turns out to be true I was indoctrinated )

Citadel inner design has been confirmed in the art book as being reused from what was intended to be the final confrontation with TIM on his station.

The only bit that lends any real weight to this theory at all, and that I can't explain away, is Shepard only living in the destroy option.

[Rusty0918]

NeroSparda wrote...

Rusty0918 wrote...

NovinhaShepard wrote...

So, according to the indoctrination theory, you guys think the exploding Mass Relays are all just in Shepard's head?

Exactly. It was to give Shepard a sense of satisfaction. The whole Normandy crashing on native planet also never happened. In short, everything from where Sheapard was hit with the beam by Harbinger up to the point you wake up in the Destroy ending (if you have high enough EMS) was all part of the "dream sequence." Not quite sure about the grandpa story thing...but...that doesn't invalidate the rest of the indoc. theory.

But why would the Reapers indocinate Shepard? He is a great risk to their plan. He have proven time and time again that he can do the impossible. Why wouldn't they just kill him?

Because people will FOLLOW Shepard! He is an icon. The Reapers are very interested in him, as mentioned by Sovereign's conversation with him/her in ME1, not to mention that people commented that they'd follow him. He/she has a LOT of admirers. They'd get better results by indoctrinating him or her.

[Rusty0918]

RLesueur wrote...

Claym0re wrote...

After watching the video the only 4 things supporting this theory are the following:

1. The trees
2. The citadel inner design
3. Hackett radio calling
4. Shepard being alive only if you go for the "renegade" option

The rest can be easily explained the other way aorund. Personally I like the indoctrination theory (even thou if it turns out to be true I was indoctrinated )

Citadel inner design has been confirmed in the art book as being reused from what was intended to be the final confrontation with TIM on his station.

The only bit that lends any real weight to this theory at all, and that I can't explain away, is Shepard only living in the destroy option.

Have you even SEEN the whole video yet? For crying out loud, as I mentioned before, indoctrination is one of the Reapers weapons. It's a cornerstone in how they operate. Why shouldn't Shepard face the perils of this?

[RLesueur]

Rusty0918 wrote...

RLesueur wrote...

Claym0re wrote...

After watching the video the only 4 things supporting this theory are the following:

1. The trees
2. The citadel inner design
3. Hackett radio calling
4. Shepard being alive only if you go for the "renegade" option

The rest can be easily explained the other way aorund. Personally I like the indoctrination theory (even thou if it turns out to be true I was indoctrinated )

Citadel inner design has been confirmed in the art book as being reused from what was intended to be the final confrontation with TIM on his station.

The only bit that lends any real weight to this theory at all, and that I can't explain away, is Shepard only living in the destroy option.

Have you even SEEN the whole video yet? For crying out loud, as I mentioned before, indoctrination is one of the Reapers weapons. It's a cornerstone in how they operate. Why shouldn't Shepard face the perils of this?

It's the same video that is posted over and over and over again with very minor alterations.

[NeroSparda]

Rusty0918 wrote...

NeroSparda wrote...

Rusty0918 wrote...

NovinhaShepard wrote...

So, according to the indoctrination theory, you guys think the exploding Mass Relays are all just in Shepard's head?

Exactly. It was to give Shepard a sense of satisfaction. The whole Normandy crashing on native planet also never happened. In short, everything from where Sheapard was hit with the beam by Harbinger up to the point you wake up in the Destroy ending (if you have high enough EMS) was all part of the "dream sequence." Not quite sure about the grandpa story thing...but...that doesn't invalidate the rest of the indoc. theory.

But why would the Reapers indocinate Shepard? He is a great risk to their plan. He have proven time and time again that he can do the impossible. Why wouldn't they just kill him?

Because people will FOLLOW Shepard! He is an icon. The Reapers are very interested in him, as mentioned by Sovereign's conversation with him/her in ME1, not to mention that people commented that they'd follow him. He/she has a LOT of admirers. They'd get better results by indoctrinating him or her.

That would be the case if they were attempting to do so before invading. But they are invading now, they wouldn't need Shepard to win the war. Actually, they are doing quite fine before the attempt. So it doesn't make sense to execute a risky plan when it is possible that it would backfire on them. Shepard has proven to snap Saren out of it twice before.

[Over00]

NeroSparda wrote...

But why would the Reapers indocinate Shepard? He is a great risk to their plan. He have proven time and time again that he can do the impossible. Why wouldn't they just kill him?

Exactly because of everything he has done. If they can indoctrinate him well they have a "war hero", a "bloody icon" working for them. Given the chance to control someone that managed to get such diverse people working together I'd take it.

Or... maybe because they already tried to kill him so many times that they're getting bored and want to try a new trick. With all these indoctrinated people sent at Shepard to kill him if "just killing him" was that simple they'd just do so.

Modifié par Over00, 20 mars 2012 - 08:12 .

[Doctor_Jackstraw]

The endings arent necessarily that unless you get the stinger ending. from the perspective of someone who picked blue or green the ending was real and effected them.

that stinger makes everything crazy though. goddamn. hope it leads to a good dlc ending dlc ending dlc for the ending.

[OhManTFE]

Sorry indoc theory has too many holes and way too much re-imaging and re-interpreting of events in an attempt to try and quell your cognitive dissonance at the terrible ending Bioware left us with.

If Bioware actually did do this then it makes no sense from a literary stand-point, has back-fired on them horribly, and also means they are trying to charge you money for an actual ending...

[Tiax Rules All]

Doctor_Jackstraw wrote...

The endings arent necessarily that unless you get the stinger ending. from the perspective of someone who picked blue or green the ending was real and effected them.

that stinger makes everything crazy though. goddamn. hope it leads to a good dlc ending dlc ending dlc for the ending.

yes it really is all about the "breath on Earth"   Nobody else would care if it wasn't for that.  For me though, that 20 second clip at the end of the DESTROY ending was th whole and real ending all along, everything else is game over essentialy.

[NeroSparda]

Over00 wrote...

NeroSparda wrote...

But why would the Reapers indocinate Shepard? He is a great risk to their plan. He have proven time and time again that he can do the impossible. Why wouldn't they just kill him?

Exactly because of everything he has done. If they can indoctrinate him well they have a "war hero", a "bloody icon" working for them. Given the chance to control someone that managed to get such diverse people working together I'd take it.

Or... maybe because they already tried to kill him so many times that they're getting bored and want to try a new trick. With all these indoctrinated people sent at Shepard to kill him if "just killing him" was that simple they'd just do so.

They had the chance to do so, WHEN HE WAS UNCONCIOUS. Why is it so hard to just blast him with a couple of Reaper beams to make sure he can't wake up or be savagable?

[K_Tabris]

Rusty0918 wrote...

Not quite sure about the grandpa story thing...but...that doesn't invalidate the rest of the indoc. theory.

I suppose that could have taken place on a colony planet.

Like I said earlier, if I am to believe this indoctrination theory, (rather than chalking it up to lazy and bad writing), why didn't they use epilogue screens, or further cutscenes to show the results of Shepard's final choice? After 100's of hours put in to my canon Shepard alone (let's not talk about all the other Shepards that I have), why end it at Gilligan's Planet, and the StarGazr scene?

A different subject, I guess.

[Tiax Rules All]

OhManTFE wrote...

Sorry indoc theory has too many holes and way too much re-imaging and re-interpreting of events in an attempt to try and quell your cognitive dissonance at the terrible ending Bioware left us with.

If Bioware actually did do this then it makes no sense from a literary stand-point, has back-fired on them horribly, and also means they are trying to charge you money for an actual ending...

Holes? and it actually doesn't take imagination really, its spelled out for you in the video. Imagination no, open mindedness yes.

You dont have to have an imagination to see the hints for what they are, It takes a LACK of imagination to deny the evidence.

[Tiax Rules All]

There is absolutely nothing in stargazer that invalidates Indoc theory, not even close.