133 réponses à ce sujet

[K_Tabris]

OhManTFE wrote...

Sorry indoc theory has too many holes and way too much re-imaging and re-interpreting of events in an attempt to try and quell your cognitive dissonance at the terrible ending Bioware left us with.

If Bioware actually did do this then it makes no sense from a literary stand-point, has back-fired on them horribly, and also means they are trying to charge you money for an actual ending...

I am much more inclined to agree with this assessment.  If their intent was all of this speculation, there are much better ways of delivering.  It should have been in the final game, though, not as a planned dlc.  Javik was bad enough.  I

The plot of the series as a whole is a bit shallow and cliche.  Maybe this is really the ending the series deserved.

[Tiax Rules All]

NeroSparda wrote...

They had the chance to do so, WHEN HE WAS UNCONCIOUS. Why is it so hard to just blast him with a couple of Reaper beams to make sure he can't wake up or be savagable?

they could have also killed Saran and TIM....

Indoctrinating powerful and influential individuals was always the plan. and indoctrinated Shepard would be the ultimate reaper war asset.

[Tiax Rules All]

NovinhaShepard wrote...
...snip...

The plot of the series as a whole is a bit shallow and cliche.  Maybe this is really the ending the series deserved.

If you hate the whole series, then why are you even here.

Mass Effect doesn't deserve statements like that. If this actually was a "bad series" like you say, nobody would give a **** about these endings. This series has a borderline stalker fanbase around the world. Me2 won like every award possible....

[Rusty0918]

Thank you Tiax. As I've been trying to say, Indoctrination is one of the key weapons of the Reapers to bend people to their will. It would only be fair for Shepard to undergo an indoctrination attempt himself or herself. Keep in mind that while Shepard is strong willed, willpower DOES have limits you know. You really need to stop and think and look at all the stuff that's laid out for you in the video. The subtle clues are there.

[NeroSparda]

Tiax Rules All wrote...

NeroSparda wrote...

They had the chance to do so, WHEN HE WAS UNCONCIOUS. Why is it so hard to just blast him with a couple of Reaper beams to make sure he can't wake up or be savagable?

they could have also killed Saran and TIM....

Indoctrinating powerful and influential individuals was always the plan. and indoctrinated Shepard would be the ultimate reaper war asset.

Saren was an attempt to open the Relay in the Citadel so the Reapers can get in without much work. Shepard screwed that up. The Collectors were a distraction so others can busy themselves so that the Reapers use the Relay in Batarian's space to get in without being noticed. That didn't work, either by Shepard or guys that happened to not be indoctrinated. The indoctrination works best for extraodinary people before the invasion. The indoctrination during the invasion works best when used on refuges as sleeper agents (like how it happened to the Protheans). The theory also possibly neglects TIM being indoctrinated, as you know, the Reapers manipulating Shepard thoughts and dreams (if they were true but are totally crap). As well as ultimately stripping the player of freedom of choice.

Modifié par NeroSparda, 20 mars 2012 - 08:31 .

[RogueBot]

So, I have a question:

If you prefer the indoc theory (I'm indifferent, personally), and Bioware confirms that Shepard is, in fact, indoctrinated, and everything that happens is in his imagination, BUT they have no plans to continue Shepard's story at all (through DLC or sequels), will you still be happy with the ending because at least you've gotten confirmation? 

Modifié par RogueBot, 20 mars 2012 - 08:28 .

[K_Tabris]

Did I say it was a bad series?

No.

Do I have a stalkerish enthusiasm regarding this awesome series?

Before the last 15 minutes, yes.

Can I love a series, and still think the space-magic filled plot is a bit shallow?

Again, yes.

Star Trek is an amazing series as well, but most episodes have ridiculously simple A and B plots. Each new alien species has a random face make up lump on the nose or forehead to distinguish them from humans.

My point is, I like this series very much, or wouldn't be here to discuss it. Good to know I have to have your approval first, Tiax.

[TheAwesomologist]

Man. If this is the explanation I wish Bioware would just come out and confirm it. It would make the ending a lot easier to swallow.

My biggest issue with the indoctrination theory is that it means there are really only 2 endings; Red and everything else. That only puts BioWare in a whole different conundrum of having to explain why the ended ME3 with only 1 real choice.

EDIT: For the record I chose the Red ending mostly because I felt like the Illusive Man could never be right (Blue/Control) and that Synthesis reminded me too much of what had become to Saren and how the reaper forces are (Green/Synthesis). So I find this theory palpable. Just wish BioWare would come out fo their fallout bunker and say something already.

Modifié par TheAwesomologist, 20 mars 2012 - 08:35 .

[Tovanus]

RogueBot wrote...

So, I have a question:

If you prefer the indoc theory (I'm indifferent, personally), and Bioware confirms that Shepard is, in fact, indoctrinated, and everything that happens is in his imagination, BUT they have no plans to continue Shepard's story at all (through DLC or sequels), will you still be happy with the ending because at least you've gotten confirmation? 

That's a tough question, but I can't see how Bioware would ever take the step of confirming it and then not following up on it. Too much money to be made by reinvesting fans in the series (even if the ending DLC were free, it would spur a lot of interest in all other DLC if the ending got fixed in that future).




To the OP, that's a really great video. You can really see the care the maker of the video put into improving on the original. Very well done. Bioware needs to use this. I know they didn't plan it, but how often do you see an incompetent handling of an ending stumble into something that can salvage everything so easily? Not often. It's a gift. Bioware needs to use it.

[Tiax Rules All]

NeroSparda wrote...

Tiax Rules All wrote...

NeroSparda wrote...

They had the chance to do so, WHEN HE WAS UNCONCIOUS. Why is it so hard to just blast him with a couple of Reaper beams to make sure he can't wake up or be savagable?

they could have also killed Saran and TIM....

Indoctrinating powerful and influential individuals was always the plan. and indoctrinated Shepard would be the ultimate reaper war asset.

Saren was an attempt to open the Relay in the Citadel so the Reapers can get in without much work. Shepard screwed that up. The Collectors were a distraction so others can busy themselves so that the Reapers use the Relay in Batarian's space to get in without being noticed. That didn't work, either by Shepard or guys that happened to not be indoctrinated. The indoctrination works best for extraodinary people before the invasion. The indoctrination during the invasion works best when used on refuges as sleeper agents (like how it happened to the Protheans). The theory also possibly neglects TIM being indoctrinated, as you know, the Reapers manipulating Shepard thoughts and dreams (if they were true but are totally crap). As well as ultimately stripping the player of freedom of choice.

no TIM is indoctrinated, video in Cerberus facility shows that. there is no doubt. wether that was actually him at the end or not.

and i dont buy your description or indoctrination, if anything they are getting more desperate as their plans are failing. and more and more influential indoctrination is needed.

You saying that reapers no longer need indoctrinated targets goes against everything we see in game and everything they have done in previous cycles.

[K_Tabris]

The biggest whole of all in this theory is how Shepard is able to destroy the Reapers in her mind.

God, what an awful ending.

[goose2989]

Very well done. We'll see if Bioware uses something like this if they make Ending DLC

[NeroSparda]

Tiax Rules All wrote...

NeroSparda wrote...

Tiax Rules All wrote...

NeroSparda wrote...

They had the chance to do so, WHEN HE WAS UNCONCIOUS. Why is it so hard to just blast him with a couple of Reaper beams to make sure he can't wake up or be savagable?

they could have also killed Saran and TIM....

Indoctrinating powerful and influential individuals was always the plan. and indoctrinated Shepard would be the ultimate reaper war asset.

Saren was an attempt to open the Relay in the Citadel so the Reapers can get in without much work. Shepard screwed that up. The Collectors were a distraction so others can busy themselves so that the Reapers use the Relay in Batarian's space to get in without being noticed. That didn't work, either by Shepard or guys that happened to not be indoctrinated. The indoctrination works best for extraodinary people before the invasion. The indoctrination during the invasion works best when used on refuges as sleeper agents (like how it happened to the Protheans). The theory also possibly neglects TIM being indoctrinated, as you know, the Reapers manipulating Shepard thoughts and dreams (if they were true but are totally crap). As well as ultimately stripping the player of freedom of choice.

no TIM is indoctrinated, video in Cerberus facility shows that. there is no doubt. wether that was actually him at the end or not.

and i dont buy your description or indoctrination, if anything they are getting more desperate as their plans are failing. and more and more influential indoctrination is needed.

You saying that reapers no longer need indoctrinated targets goes against everything we see in game and everything they have done in previous cycles.

In the previous cycles, there were no mention of influential indoctrination. There mention of indoctrination in refuges. The videos in Cerberus facility does not show that. If that was the case, TIM would had placed a control chip in Shepard's brain until the indoctrination took hold of Shepard.

[Tiax Rules All]

NovinhaShepard wrote...

The biggest whole of all in this theory is how Shepard is able to destroy the Reapers in her mind.

God, what an awful ending.

he didnt, he imagined it, as a symbal of conquering indoctrination and wishful thinking, he imagines a heroic end to the war, friends making it to safety on happy fun sunset world and all that feel good stuff.

.... then he wakes up...

the story is not over.

[Skyline45]

Wow if this is true I take back everything I said about the ending. Genius really. I still think Bioware went about telling us in a bad way though....

Major props to who ever figured it out and did this video.

[K_Tabris]

In other words, we bought an incomplete game?

I can't get on board with that idea.

Back to chalking it up as a poorly implemented, artsy matrix ending.

[Tiax Rules All]

NeroSparda wrote...

In the previous cycles, there were no mention of influential indoctrination. There mention of indoctrination in refuges. The videos in Cerberus facility does not show that. If that was the case, TIM would had placed a control chip in Shepard's brain until the indoctrination took hold of Shepard.

yes he works on refugees. but it also very specifically shows TIM indoctrinating himself in the cerberus facility. its clear what hes doing.

in the miranda mission. dont know how else to say that. TIM is indoctrinated. I didnt think i would have to convince people of that... should have been obvious.  and no he did not want to put any "control" into shepard. he needed shepard as he was. You can also argue tim was not indoc at that point in the series yet.

[Rhayth]

I feel like this is very intriguing. If they were to continue along with this as a lead in to a conclusion i'd be on board. This has me re-interested, but still wary of future DLC.

[Tiax Rules All]

NovinhaShepard wrote...

In other words, we bought an incomplete game?

I can't get on board with that idea.

Back to chalking it up as a poorly implemented, artsy matrix ending.

this is always what they fall back on. Im talking about about indoc theory and when they have no arguements left they just say it cant work because you cant believe thats what Bioware would do. Sure you can feel that way, but now lets just come clean and admit that this is why you cannot get behind the series all along...

this is about opinion. you think you got an incomplete game, well i didnt. sorta...

I believe its not done, I also believe DLC for ME3 is still "ME3" and if the ending comes in DLC, ill buy it put it into my game and "complete" it.

[Tiax Rules All]

Skyline45 wrote...

Wow if this is true I take back everything I said about the ending. Genius really. I still think Bioware went about telling us in a bad way though....

Major props to who ever figured it out and did this video.

lots of people figured it out, even before the video. but the video certainly helps to provide the contexual evidence the skeptics need.  and yes major props, its very well done.

[NeroSparda]

Tiax Rules All wrote...

NeroSparda wrote...

In the previous cycles, there were no mention of influential indoctrination. There mention of indoctrination in refuges. The videos in Cerberus facility does not show that. If that was the case, TIM would had placed a control chip in Shepard's brain until the indoctrination took hold of Shepard.

yes he works on refugees. but it also very specifically shows TIM indoctrinating himself in the cerberus facility. its clear what hes doing.

in the miranda mission. dont know how else to say that. TIM is indoctrinated. I didnt think i would have to convince people of that... should have been obvious.  and no he did not want to put any "control" into shepard. he needed shepard as he was. You can also argue tim was not indoc at that point in the series yet.

So Cerberus happen to be around 50,000 years before Mass Effect 1? Gee, good to know.

Cerberus worked on the plan to control the "Reapers" (it's debatable whether TIM is indoctrinated [current game ending] or not [the theory as it tries to convince everyone that the Star child/Harbinger is lying to Shepard]).

Modifié par NeroSparda, 20 mars 2012 - 08:49 .

[Tiax Rules All]

NeroSparda wrote...


So Cerberus happen to be around 50,000 years before Mass Effect 1? Gee, good to know.

WHAT!? i seriously have no idea what this is supposed to mean, except that you are not following.......

Cerberus worked on the plan to control the "Reapers" (it's debatable whether TIM is indoctrinated [current game ending] or not [the theory as it tries to convince everyone that the Star child/Harbinger is lying to Shepard]).

If you cant admit TIM is indoctrinated in ME3, this conversation is over. its like trying to debate that Shepard isn't the heroes last name.

Modifié par Tiax Rules All, 20 mars 2012 - 08:54 .

[Mad-Hamlet]

It's a good proposition. A few weaker moments but quality work.
We shall see.

As it is, I remain as I have, commuted to getting what was promised.

[sizuka2]

I wish they were this clever.

[Diegofsv]

I love this theory and the video is really well done, but the final images of normandy and the Reapers beign just a 'dream' is cheap. Whats strong for this theory is that the perfect ending (where Sheppard is alive) is the destruction of the reapers and you wake up what it seems to be London.

I do think that the Indocrination was already planned, it really seems that way, the DLC will show us that and we will get the end we deserved. Its a bold move from Bioware. The big problem now is that...we don't know for sure we will get a sequel...we were sold that "this is it folks, that's the end", and this made us pissed off. Maybe if we came knowing that this would not be resolved....either way, if bioware annouce this DLC previous planned (and for damn FREE), wow, that would be one of the boldest moves I ever saw a company do..I'll pray for it. And right now, my faith is renewed (I almost let it go, damn it)