133 réponses à ce sujet

[Montana]

sizuka2 wrote...

I wish they were this clever.

[Red Dust]

This indoctrination video just indoctrinated me. I'm a believer.

[Girlfrakker69]

What I just realized on my second playthrough ... at the end - after being transportet to the citadel - you find yourself in a long dark passageway with human remains and some keepers. What makes me wonder is that I could walk right through the second one ... this never happened on the D24 Docking Bay.

Might be just a clipping/collision issue ... but somehow I doubt that since I can't shoot them either - and I remember Saren smashing a Keeper in ME1.

[Darthdac2]

I really really wish this was true. I really do.

[Nauks]

Ohh, 20 min version, watched it, really well worth it =)
Keeping hopeful.

[mereck7980]

I feel like I am becoming indoctrinated the more I think about this idea. At first I didn't want to believe this was possible, but it seems more and more likely that Shepard could very well be fighting off Reaper control during the last 10 minutes of the game.

There are really only two possibilities at this point:

1. Shepard was fighting off Harbinger's control, in which case the battle against the Reapers was never finished because the Crucible didn't fire. This in effect means ME3 was shipped as an unfinished game and BW is toying with us.

2. The endings were "real". This means that the writing for this game was stellar right up to the very end, and everything falls apart in a giant mess of loopholes and contradictions. So, in this scenario BW's writing team decided to go high concept and didn't care that their fanbase would see all the problems the endings create for the franchise.

I don't know which of the two is worse...

Modifié par mereck7980, 20 mars 2012 - 09:11 .

[Greyze2k]

Incredible video, thanks very much for the time and effort you put into it.

[mereck7980]

Greyze2k wrote...

Incredible video, thanks very much for the time and effort you put into it.

I will second this.  Great work, this is by far the best vid I have seen on this subject! 

[Vigil_N7]

Tiax Rules All wrote...

NovinhaShepard wrote...

The biggest whole of all in this theory is how Shepard is able to destroy the Reapers in her mind.

God, what an awful ending.

he didnt, he imagined it, as a symbal of conquering indoctrination and wishful thinking, he imagines a heroic end to the war, friends making it to safety on happy fun sunset world and all that feel good stuff.

.... then he wakes up...

the story is not over.

I don't get this argument about shepard dreaming about the mass relays. Why on earth would he dream about the mass relays EXPLODING? Shepard himself has had experience of exploding a relay, it ended up wiping out 350,000 batarians. He wouldn't of dreamt of that. 

Again, when shepard gives up to indoctrination, why does he dream of the reapers leaving? If he submits to indoctrination, why does he dream of the mass relays exploding? It makes no sense. 

[Jarcander]

The new version of this video was indeed tasty.

I feel that even if this wouldn't be the ending Bioware visioned, they should make the DLC anyway due to its popularity and sheer amount of logic in it.

[Tleining]

i don't like it how Harbingers voice and Reaper sounds are added to the scene at the Citadel as if they had been there from the beginning. The description mentions the illusive man and a Reapers "growl" adding pressure, and the whole time Harbinger is talking. uh, bit over the top.

[Jarcander]

TheAwesomologist wrote...

Man. If this is the explanation I wish Bioware would just come out and confirm it. It would make the ending a lot easier to swallow.

^

I believe this is the fault of EA being a major large corporate pain in the ass. Decisions happen at incredibly slow pace in the corporate world and EA would hold the last say in when to release information about upcoming DLC. Of course the excuse will be "we wanted to give everyone time to finish the game, plaa plaa", but in reality, leaving the players in dark for too long causes damage.

[Rusty0918]

Well, one way or the other, sooner or later they'll have to come clean.

[Jarcander]

Tleining wrote...

...uh, bit over the top.

Much like your characters lipstick, ehehe.

...

Sorry. Couldn't resist. Feel free to mock my shiny scalp.

[Arokel]

The video was very well done.

I still don't think this was their original idea but I do think that BioWare should seriously consider using it.

[CptBomBom00]

If this theory is true, then Why The **** did I even bothered with that scanning????????????????????

[Girlfrakker69]

Has there been any indication of possible post-ending gameplay?

[Claym0re]

First I love the indoctrination theory. And the video is an excellent work.

BUT

I checked the video and replayed the specific parts. Everything in the video can be invalidated (not to mention some of them are stated false like the trees. The trees are there when you are running towards Harby).

The questionable parts for me:

1. Hackett radio (could bean overlook by BW, but right before the radioing the Citadel opened so Hackett could assume Shepard made it)
2. Unlimited ammo (probably was easier for programming)
3. The final easter egg

Modifié par Claym0re, 20 mars 2012 - 09:39 .

[Colancio]

Omg this is so awesome, all make sense. But I agree with the first comment of the video: "My fear is that Bioware will steal the Indoctrination Idea and make it look like it was their plan all along."

Modifié par Colancio, 20 mars 2012 - 09:36 .

[Arokel]

Claym0re wrote...

First I love the indoctrination theory. And the video is an excellent work.

BUT

I checked the video and replayed the specific parts. Everything in the video can be invalidated (not to mention some of them are stated false like the trees. The trees are there when you are running towards Harby).

The questionable parts for me:

1. Hackett radio (could have been an overlook)
2. Unlimited ammo (probably was easier for programming)
3. The final easter egg

/respectfully

What about the kid?  I am not sure you can refute that.  I have played through it again and NOONE reacts to the kid.

[Jerjud45]

Indoctrination seems the most plausible and that video is excellent. That still leaves the player in the dark as far as what actually happened. When Shepard wakes up, the reapers are still going at it, and the combined fleet is still fighting. So we don't even know the aftermath of the war, other than a message saying Shepard became a legend for stopping the reaper threat. How did he eventually stop it?

[kondel]

NeroSparda wrote...

Tiax Rules All wrote...

NeroSparda wrote...

Tiax Rules All wrote...

NeroSparda wrote...

They had the chance to do so, WHEN HE WAS UNCONCIOUS. Why is it so hard to just blast him with a couple of Reaper beams to make sure he can't wake up or be savagable?

they could have also killed Saran and TIM....

Indoctrinating powerful and influential individuals was always the plan. and indoctrinated Shepard would be the ultimate reaper war asset.

Saren was an attempt to open the Relay in the Citadel so the Reapers can get in without much work. Shepard screwed that up. The Collectors were a distraction so others can busy themselves so that the Reapers use the Relay in Batarian's space to get in without being noticed. That didn't work, either by Shepard or guys that happened to not be indoctrinated. The indoctrination works best for extraodinary people before the invasion. The indoctrination during the invasion works best when used on refuges as sleeper agents (like how it happened to the Protheans). The theory also possibly neglects TIM being indoctrinated, as you know, the Reapers manipulating Shepard thoughts and dreams (if they were true but are totally crap). As well as ultimately stripping the player of freedom of choice.

no TIM is indoctrinated, video in Cerberus facility shows that. there is no doubt. wether that was actually him at the end or not.

and i dont buy your description or indoctrination, if anything they are getting more desperate as their plans are failing. and more and more influential indoctrination is needed.

You saying that reapers no longer need indoctrinated targets goes against everything we see in game and everything they have done in previous cycles.

In the previous cycles, there were no mention of influential indoctrination. There mention of indoctrination in refuges. The videos in Cerberus facility does not show that. If that was the case, TIM would had placed a control chip in Shepard's brain until the indoctrination took hold of Shepard.

You do raise a good point. How come the Reapers did not indoctrinate the Prothean political leaders? They could learn a lot of information regarding secret bases which were not publically known, ie. Ilos.
If the Reapers managed to destroy the Crucible and the entire fleet present, conquering the rest of the Galaxy would be a walk in the park, rendering influencial agents such as Shepard largely irrelevant.

I love the indoctrination theory, it makes sense in an area which none had previously been found. Would someone care to explain the Reapers motives behind indoctrinating Shepard, what use could he serve after they destroyed much, if not all, of the galaxy's forces in a single, direct battle? Would it somehow be possible to use an indoctrinated Shepard to minimalize Reaper casualties, if so, how?

[Claym0re]

Arokel wrote...
What about the kid?  I am not sure you can refute that.  I have played through it again and NOONE reacts to the kid.

During the first approach Anderson enters an other room (the door you opened), and when he comes back all he can see you looking into the vents. Anderson didnt see the boy. And since the Reapers/explosions are loud its a viable explanation that he didnt hear the conversation either.

The next time we see the boy is the shuttle. We dont see anyone noticing the kid, but the reverse is also true. They are freaked out. Plus the door of the shuttle doesnt close until the boy is on.

[Girlfrakker69]

Vigil_N7 wrote...

I don't get this argument about shepard dreaming about the mass relays. Why on earth would he dream about the mass relays EXPLODING? Shepard himself has had experience of exploding a relay, it ended up wiping out 350,000 batarians. He wouldn't of dreamt of that.

If Shepard is being indoctrinated or controlled, the Reapers (Harbinger) would make use of any traumatic memory Shepard has to subdue his will. Shepard killing a quarter million Batarians with a single decision would surely count in that regard. Watching a child die can also be an extremely traumatic experience - hence the Catalyst presents itself as that child.

Vigil_N7 wrote...

Again, when shepard gives up to indoctrination, why does he dream of the reapers leaving? If he submits to indoctrination, why does he dream of the mass relays exploding? It makes no sense. 

It could be a test - this idea would have actually been stolen from the Sci-Fi TV show "Farscape" where the crew once encountered a far superior (albeit peaceful) species looking for a new place to settle down. This species used Chrichton's memories of his homeworld to create an interactive dream to assess whether they would be welcome on earth or not. Turned out that in Chrichton's mind, most of earth's population was extremely xenophobic ...

Back to the Reapers ... it could very well be that Harbinger is concerned about the outcome of the battle and wants to know whether there is a possibility for some kind of negotiation ... just checking out what Shepard would actually do if given the chance.

[jdbtoes]

An interesting theory. But, as someone else mentioned, why wouldn't the Reapers just finish Shep off after he gets caught by Harb's Reapery ray O' death? Yes, yes, they'd gain someone who everyone else trusts. But read the codex. It's possible to indoctrinate someone quickly, but it scrambles their brain in the process. Shep would be a good agent of the Reapers for a few days before becoming a worthless drooling mess. Hardly worth the effort, seeing as how the Reapers are winning anyway... No?