463 réponses à ce sujet

[Karnor00]

MassEffected555 wrote...

Karnor00 wrote...

MassEffected555 wrote...
Harby beam vaporizes people. It causes massive damage. You can only assume Shepard is in pretty bad shape. Also considering he was able to "resist" indoctrination that would take a considerable toll on someone since no one else, ever, was able to beat it. 

So Harby's beam vaporizes people but Shepard managed to survive in the obvious ending (albeit with melted armor).  So from that can we assume he didn't take a direct hit (as otherwise, by your logic, he would have been vaporized)?

And if he can take a non-direct hit which critically injures but doesn't kill him, then why can't he take an even more non-direct hit which simply knocks him unconscious with fairly minor injuries?

And we have no idea how much toll an attempted indoctrination has upon someone.  Maybe it has no long term impacts at all.  Javik for example tells us that his whole squad got indoctrinated.  Presumably Javik was with his squad so what prevented him from getting indoctrinated too?

Either way it suggests that indoctrination is far from the foolproof method you seem to believe it is.  To be honest, the only thing that suggests indoctrination is foolproof is the often inaccurate codex entries.  There is plenty of in-game evidence (and the books too) of people resisting indoctrination.

A minor hit wouldn't knock you out would it? And the theory hinges on Shepard being weakened by the blast which is why he is even able to have an indoctrination attempt on him.

See if the hit was minor, your theory loses all credability since at no other time was he able to have an attempt come close to working. The hit has to be enough to hurt him badly.

Also, yeah the beam vaporizing everyone else, but somehow just knocking Shep out is just MORE bad writing. 

There are plenty of possible explanations for why indoctrination only works now.  Perhaps Shepard is knocked unconscious by a hit just hard enough to take down his shields and knock him out (call the hit what you like, minor, major, middling, whatever).  And then the close proximity of Harbinger is sufficient for him to attempt indoctrination.

As for bad writing, I'd agree that there is plenty of bad writing here, which ever ending is chosen.  And even before the ending, Dr Eva and Kai-Leng v1 with their invicible plot armor was pretty bad wriing too.

Eitherway, its been an interesting discussion, but you seem to be at the point of simply ignoring the parts of the argument you don't have an answer to so I'm done here.

[Thorn Harvestar]

MassEffected555 wrote...

Locutus_of_BORG wrote...

MassEffected555 wrote...

Just what the title says.

What's next? The game specifically states once you are indoctrinated you are permantly. There is no cure. You can't block it - I dont care about books, not everyone read the books the are not cannon to the video games, they are side stories.

OK so according to the video game you can't get rid of indoctrination. So what happens after Shep wakes up? Only think I can think of is Benezia and Saren. They were able to resist if only for a short time and that was for Saren to kill himself and for Benezia to give them some info on Saren. Note that Benezia right back at trying to kill SHep and crew after she gave the info.

So taking that into consideration, what does Shep do next? Save the day in 2 minutes or less and then shoot himself in the face before he is back under Reaper control?

It is also stated that when the Reapers leave after a cycle the people who were indoctrinated and no longer hear the signal from the reapers just stand around and starve to death. The reapers leave and the signal stops, but everyone is still a brain dead vegie.

So please let me know what to expect after the Indoc Theory because it looks pretty bleak to me.  

Just jumping into this now, but this is where you can start milking some serious melodrama out of the end.

Just off the top of my head:

1.  Shep wakes from delirium, heavily injured and realizing he/she is being indoctrinated.  :tears: I've failed!  :starts to lose hope:

2.  Cuts to the two accompanying squadmates. SHEPARD! :start digging Shep out of rubble:

3.  Far shot shows the initial push has stalled; Shep & team are surrounded by Reapers and under fire. We've come this far, we can't give up, Shepard! :team starts carrying Shep to the transport beam, but are quickly pinned down and about to be overrun:

4. Then the rest of Shep's friends come in for the save, including Anderson, ME2 survivors and a few other notables from ME1-3 (reflecting your choices on who you saved). The Normandy & other ships swoop in for air support (reflecting choices you made with upgrades and fleet composition). This is it, Shepard, it's now or never! We'll cover you! :Shep&team make it into beam while the others dig in and hold off the Reapers:

5.  Inside the Citadel, Shep & team eventually face off TIM and Catalyst for the last time. Having "foreseen" events, Shep no longer falls for the TIM or the Catalyst's rhetoric. Shep rejects Catalyst's choices and chooses a fourth option; which destroys the Reapers w/o dooming the rest of the galaxy. Then, reflecting your choices, Shep gets to either die quickly due to indoctrination, or survives a little longer to say goodbye (before say, killing himself to prevent full indoctrination) or, in the best case, is able to purge the Reapers fully enough that Indoctrination is "cured" somehow (say, still "indoctrinated", but with no Reapers alive to control him).

6.  Final scene has Shep's team returning to Earth (possibly carrying Shep's body) via the transport beam. Again, to reflect player choices, they either greeted with a field of corpses, a handful of survivors or the whole host of rearguard or anything in between (# of survivors calculated similar to ME2's SM, but exactly who dies randomized this time).

7.  The survivors survey the battlefield, looking to the sky as morning breaks. The scene zooms out to the fleet, and then into the stars and finally the whole galaxy.  Credits roll.

8.  Post-credits, cutback to the Stargazer scene, where the old man, clearly human, speaks a short epilogue about some of the notable worlds and people not addressed in the ending.

I like yours too. BUT before getting hit by the beam, it shows everyone else getting killed. Your squad mysteriously disappears and winds up on the Normandy  ALLL before the supposed indoctrination attempt and getting hit by the beam.

They would need to re write the ending so not everyone gets killed, no  happens that takes your squad and plops them on the Normandy.

Pretty much means they have to re do the run to the beam scene, which means indoc never happened and it would be a complete retcon of what we got as I stated before. 

You see some generic troops die from laser blasts, but you don't have any visual confirmation of Anderson, your Squad, or additional forces dying on the run. You just have the squad characters disappear into thin air like we discussed previously. It'd be nice if this theory explained that issue, but I don't think it's by any means required since it's probably just them de-spawning the models too early (they shouldnt despawn until your vision fades).

We never saw the Normandy pick them up anyway, so i don't think we have to explain how that *doesn't* happen either.

[Lugoffo]

In the end of the Mass Effect 2, didn't harbringer release control of the collector "master"? If there is no one to control Shepard (reapers are dead) and the indoctrination didn't go too far (making Shepard into a husk), then would just "releasing control" work?

[Thorn Harvestar]

To add: The reason the squad despawns early is likely BECAUSE of the scrapped scene where they could die from a direct blast. They probably didn't clean it up well after cutting that out.

[Jaze55]

Karnor00 wrote...

MassEffected555 wrote...

Karnor00 wrote...

MassEffected555 wrote...
Harby beam vaporizes people. It causes massive damage. You can only assume Shepard is in pretty bad shape. Also considering he was able to "resist" indoctrination that would take a considerable toll on someone since no one else, ever, was able to beat it. 

So Harby's beam vaporizes people but Shepard managed to survive in the obvious ending (albeit with melted armor).  So from that can we assume he didn't take a direct hit (as otherwise, by your logic, he would have been vaporized)?

And if he can take a non-direct hit which critically injures but doesn't kill him, then why can't he take an even more non-direct hit which simply knocks him unconscious with fairly minor injuries?

And we have no idea how much toll an attempted indoctrination has upon someone.  Maybe it has no long term impacts at all.  Javik for example tells us that his whole squad got indoctrinated.  Presumably Javik was with his squad so what prevented him from getting indoctrinated too?

Either way it suggests that indoctrination is far from the foolproof method you seem to believe it is.  To be honest, the only thing that suggests indoctrination is foolproof is the often inaccurate codex entries.  There is plenty of in-game evidence (and the books too) of people resisting indoctrination.

A minor hit wouldn't knock you out would it? And the theory hinges on Shepard being weakened by the blast which is why he is even able to have an indoctrination attempt on him.

See if the hit was minor, your theory loses all credability since at no other time was he able to have an attempt come close to working. The hit has to be enough to hurt him badly.

Also, yeah the beam vaporizing everyone else, but somehow just knocking Shep out is just MORE bad writing. 

There are plenty of possible explanations for why indoctrination only works now.  Perhaps Shepard is knocked unconscious by a hit just hard enough to take down his shields and knock him out (call the hit what you like, minor, major, middling, whatever).  And then the close proximity of Harbinger is sufficient for him to attempt indoctrination.

As for bad writing, I'd agree that there is plenty of bad writing here, which ever ending is chosen.  And even before the ending, Dr Eva and Kai-Leng v1 with their invicible plot armor was pretty bad wriing too.

Eitherway, its been an interesting discussion, but you seem to be at the point of simply ignoring the parts of the argument you don't have an answer to so I'm done here.

OK well I didn't ask for why the Indoc Theory works, I asked how it could possibly be extended to a new ending. So thanks for missing the point of the thread I guess? Don't really know what to say.

[Jaze55]

Lugoffo wrote...

In the end of the Mass Effect 2, didn't harbringer release control of the collector "master"? If there is no one to control Shepard (reapers are dead) and the indoctrination didn't go too far (making Shepard into a husk), then would just "releasing control" work?

I think this will explain it. From the Indoctrination wiki-

 But the Reapers viewed them as disposable. When they disappeared back through the Citadel relay, the Reapers abandoned their indoctrinated slaves, leaving them to starve or die of exposure. 

[Jaze55]

Thorn Harvestar wrote...

To add: The reason the squad despawns early is likely BECAUSE of the scrapped scene where they could die from a direct blast. They probably didn't clean it up well after cutting that out.

Yeah I agree, I posted it back 1 page too. That is exactly why they vanish.

BW just didnt fix it like they should have. 

[LolaLei]

MassEffected555 wrote...

LolaLei wrote...

MassEffected555 wrote...

jedsithor wrote...

MassEffected555 wrote...



You wrote the long post right? I did like yours but like I said no one is around to help you at that point so I can't make that work.

If they retconned that entire running to the beam scene, that's another story, but if they retconned running to the beam, Shep hasn't been hit by the laser yet so no indoctrination is happening. 

Complete re write. 

As I explained, you don't need a rewrite. The game already provides you with what you need by the simple action of having Shepard stand up. You don't see your squadmates get killed. At most you might see them on the ground. If Shepard can survive the red beam of doom, there's no reason they can't either and even if they do die, other squadmates can show up.

But they are NOT there and are on the Normandy - some fricken way - so only a rewrite fix's that. I think. 

We don't know if they are on the Normandy or not, if we go with the indoctrination theory then it's all in Shepard head. And IF they are on the Normandy then you still have you crew from ME2 on earth to save your arse.

Good points actually.

But again, before gettting hit by the beam the game shows everyone dying. And the squad vanished. You do know why right? They cut scenes showing them getting vaporized and they just removed that scene and your squad from the beam run.. still needs a re write.

Google about the squad getting killed by the beam if you didnt see it, its rough. 

Yeah, it was a deleted scene (I dunno why they took that out I actually kinda liked it.) However, since they did cut it out we can speculate that perhaps they did indeed survive the blast after all. You don't actually see them get hit directly.

[Jaze55]

 OK guys I gave this 10 pages. I still have not been convinced it could work. In fact I am even more convinced now the theory will do nothing more then make a worse ending.

I respect that you guys like it. It is very interesting. I see no way that Bioware can use it. If the people who came up with the theory can't find a way to make it fit that game I don't see how Bioware can.

I would like to end on a smart ass comment.
The conclusion I have come to is that, somehow, the Indoctrination Theory has found a way for Bioware to make the ending even more full of holes and fantastical then it already is.

You guys should be proud, that is quite an accomplishment. 











.... That was a joke.
But really I am not convinced. I am still open to listen but honestly I just don't see it working. 

Modifié par MassEffected555, 20 mars 2012 - 08:27 .

[Thorn Harvestar]

MassEffected555 wrote...

Thorn Harvestar wrote...

To add: The reason the squad despawns early is likely BECAUSE of the scrapped scene where they could die from a direct blast. They probably didn't clean it up well after cutting that out.

Yeah I agree, I posted it back 1 page too. That is exactly why they vanish.

BW just didnt fix it like they should have. 

Ah, I missed that post.

I don't think the de-spawning is something that is required to be addressed though by an Indoctrination Theory ending. If the squadmate-death scene was still in, then sure.

[Lugoffo]

MassEffected555 wrote...

Lugoffo wrote...

In the end of the Mass Effect 2, didn't harbringer release control of the collector "master"? If there is no one to control Shepard (reapers are dead) and the indoctrination didn't go too far (making Shepard into a husk), then would just "releasing control" work?

I think this will explain it. From the Indoctrination wiki-

[color=rgb(255, 255, 255)"> ] relay, the Reapers abandoned their indoctrinated slaves, leaving them to starve or die of exposure.[/color] 

Yes, but if you are not a husk yet you still have "free will"  (like Saren/TIM before getting implants) and no one is telling you what to do anymore - then indoctrination won't matter, right?

[Jaze55]

Lugoffo wrote...

MassEffected555 wrote...

Lugoffo wrote...

In the end of the Mass Effect 2, didn't harbringer release control of the collector "master"? If there is no one to control Shepard (reapers are dead) and the indoctrination didn't go too far (making Shepard into a husk), then would just "releasing control" work?

I think this will explain it. From the Indoctrination wiki-

[color=rgb(255, 255, 255)"> ] relay, the Reapers abandoned their indoctrinated slaves, leaving them to starve or die of exposure.[/color] 

Yes, but if you are not a husk yet you still have "free will"  (like Saren/TIM before getting implants) and no one is telling you what to do anymore - then indoctrination won't matter, right?

No it's stated and inferred that once you are indoctrinated and they stop telling you what to do your mind decays and you stop being able to take care of yourself. Doesn't say Husk, just says once you are indoctrinated. 

[Silasqtx]

I find my resolve pretty good u.u

http://social.biowar...233387#10244255

[Thorn Harvestar]

MassEffected555 wrote...

Lugoffo wrote...

MassEffected555 wrote...

Lugoffo wrote...

In the end of the Mass Effect 2, didn't harbringer release control of the collector "master"? If there is no one to control Shepard (reapers are dead) and the indoctrination didn't go too far (making Shepard into a husk), then would just "releasing control" work?

I think this will explain it. From the Indoctrination wiki-

[color=rgb(255, 255, 255)"> ] relay, the Reapers abandoned their indoctrinated slaves, leaving them to starve or die of exposure.[/color] 

Yes, but if you are not a husk yet you still have "free will"  (like Saren/TIM before getting implants) and no one is telling you what to do anymore - then indoctrination won't matter, right?

No it's stated and inferred that once you are indoctrinated and they stop telling you what to do your mind decays and you stop being able to take care of yourself. Doesn't say Husk, just says once you are indoctrinated. 

Honestly (at least for Synth/Control pickers), I think an ending where Shepard dies like that *but near his friends/LI* would be better than what we got. At least you aren't dying alone, and you know your crew is OK. It's more truly "bittersweet" than the pure "bitter" we got.

[RoyalGambit]

To MassEffected555
I can see that you are unwilling to accept the indoctrination theory, but without it, how dó you explain all the things that seem to support it? :
The citadel suddenly looks like the collector base, shadowbroker's lair and a cerberus base.
After Andersson dies from Shep's gunshot, Shepard is suddenly wounded the exact same place.
Star Child's voice is composed of the voices of FemShep and MaleShep, and you can har reaper voices during the citadel scenes.
Control is presented as paragon blue, and destroy is renegade red.
When Shepard wakes up, he's back on Earth, not the Citadel.
And so on and so on - I'm sure you are aware of these things. You have to admit, it all points towards indoctrination.

Modifié par RoyalGambit, 20 mars 2012 - 08:35 .

[LolaLei]

MassEffected555 wrote...

Lugoffo wrote...

MassEffected555 wrote...

Lugoffo wrote...

In the end of the Mass Effect 2, didn't harbringer release control of the collector "master"? If there is no one to control Shepard (reapers are dead) and the indoctrination didn't go too far (making Shepard into a husk), then would just "releasing control" work?

I think this will explain it. From the Indoctrination wiki-

[color=rgb(255, 255, 255)"> ] relay, the Reapers abandoned their indoctrinated slaves, leaving them to starve or die of exposure.[/color] 

Yes, but if you are not a husk yet you still have "free will"  (like Saren/TIM before getting implants) and no one is telling you what to do anymore - then indoctrination won't matter, right?

No it's stated and inferred that once you are indoctrinated and they stop telling you what to do your mind decays and you stop being able to take care of yourself. Doesn't say Husk, just says once you are indoctrinated. 

Out of interest OP, what endings would you like to see if you could decide for Bioware? Would you keep the current ones? Scrap the current endings completely? 

I'm curious.

[Jaze55]

RoyalGambit wrote...

To MassEffected555
I can see that you are unwilling to accept the indoctrination theory, but without it, how dó you explain all the things that seem to support it? :
The citadel suddenly looks like the collector base, shadowbroker's lair and a cerberus base.
After Andersson dies from Shep's gunshot, Shepard is suddenly wounded the exact same place.
Star Child's voice is composed of the voices of FemShep and MaleShep, and you can har reaper voices during the citadel scenes.
Control is presented as paragon blue, and destroy is renegade red.
When Shepard wakes up, he's back on Earth, not the Citadel.
And so on and so on - I'm sure you are aware of these things. You have to admit, these things point towards

No you can't see. I said, the indoctrination theory makes sense with what we HAVE

However I have yet to hear a way the it makes sense carrying FORWARD. 

WTF are you talking about with the bolded part? Seriously WTF are you talking about??????????????

[Jaze55]

LolaLei wrote...

MassEffected555 wrote...

Lugoffo wrote...

MassEffected555 wrote...

Lugoffo wrote...

In the end of the Mass Effect 2, didn't harbringer release control of the collector "master"? If there is no one to control Shepard (reapers are dead) and the indoctrination didn't go too far (making Shepard into a husk), then would just "releasing control" work?

I think this will explain it. From the Indoctrination wiki-

[color=rgb(255, 255, 255)"> ] relay, the Reapers abandoned their indoctrinated slaves, leaving them to starve or die of exposure.[/color] 

Yes, but if you are not a husk yet you still have "free will"  (like Saren/TIM before getting implants) and no one is telling you what to do anymore - then indoctrination won't matter, right?

No it's stated and inferred that once you are indoctrinated and they stop telling you what to do your mind decays and you stop being able to take care of yourself. Doesn't say Husk, just says once you are indoctrinated. 

Out of interest OP, what endings would you like to see if you could decide for Bioware? Would you keep the current ones? Scrap the current endings completely? 

I'm curious.

Oh I in NO WAY want to think up an ending lol I want Bioware to come up with it.

I don't want to know ahead of time what happens, why the hell would I even bother with it if I already knew.

Edit- HELL NO would I keep the current ending, don't insult me please! 

Modifié par MassEffected555, 20 mars 2012 - 08:39 .

[Doug M]

MassEffected555 wrote...

N7L4D wrote...

Again it's an indoctrination attempt, stop changing words, shep is only indoctrinated if she picks synthesis or control

They don't attempt they just indoctrinate you. Show me proof that they ever attempted and failed to indoctrinate someone and I will agree with you no problem.

Oh but the books don't count. Don't forget that. Not everyone read the books so they are not cannon to the video games. 

Consider for a moment that Shepard has such a strong will that s/he is the first human to be able to resist and break free of indoctrination.  If you need proof for Shepard's willpower and mental fortitude, recall how well he dealt with receiving the Prothean warnings from the beacon and the Cipher in ME1.  Liara commented on how much mental strength s/he must have to not be exhausted by the process.

[megabyte36]

Sheppard never actually gets fully indoctrinated, he resists the whole time and depending on your ending you break free of the attempt to indoctrinate you

[Lugoffo]

MassEffected555 wrote...

Lugoffo wrote...

MassEffected555 wrote...

Lugoffo wrote...

In the end of the Mass Effect 2, didn't harbringer release control of the collector "master"? If there is no one to control Shepard (reapers are dead) and the indoctrination didn't go too far (making Shepard into a husk), then would just "releasing control" work?

I think this will explain it. From the Indoctrination wiki-

[color=rgb(255, 255, 255)"> ] relay, the Reapers abandoned their indoctrinated slaves, leaving them to starve or die of exposure.[/color] 

Yes, but if you are not a husk yet you still have "free will"  (like Saren/TIM before getting implants) and no one is telling you what to do anymore - then indoctrination won't matter, right?

No it's stated and inferred that once you are indoctrinated and they stop telling you what to do your mind decays and you stop being able to take care of yourself. Doesn't say Husk, just says once you are indoctrinated. 

I couldn't find that quote, so I didn't take that into account. As far as I understood, it only said that your mind decays for as long as you are exposed to "the signal" and not just because your mind was indoctrinated. Sovereign could prevent further indoctrination to Saren (until the last part with the implants), so I assumed it was something the reapers had to actively do...

[Jaze55]

Doug M wrote...

MassEffected555 wrote...

N7L4D wrote...

Again it's an indoctrination attempt, stop changing words, shep is only indoctrinated if she picks synthesis or control

They don't attempt they just indoctrinate you. Show me proof that they ever attempted and failed to indoctrinate someone and I will agree with you no problem.

Oh but the books don't count. Don't forget that. Not everyone read the books so they are not cannon to the video games. 

Consider for a moment that Shepard has such a strong will that s/he is the first human to be able to resist and break free of indoctrination.  If you need proof for Shepard's willpower and mental fortitude, recall how well he dealt with receiving the Prothean warnings from the beacon and the Cipher in ME1.  Liara commented on how much mental strength s/he must have to not be exhausted by the process.

He knocks out and wakes up in the med bay on the Normandy when he get beamed by the beacon.............

The one on Eden Prime? Right at the start of ME1?

[Jaze55]

Lugoffo wrote...

MassEffected555 wrote...

Lugoffo wrote...

MassEffected555 wrote...

Lugoffo wrote...

In the end of the Mass Effect 2, didn't harbringer release control of the collector "master"? If there is no one to control Shepard (reapers are dead) and the indoctrination didn't go too far (making Shepard into a husk), then would just "releasing control" work?

I think this will explain it. From the Indoctrination wiki-

[color=rgb(255, 255, 255)"> ] relay, the Reapers abandoned their indoctrinated slaves, leaving them to starve or die of exposure.[/color] 

Yes, but if you are not a husk yet you still have "free will"  (like Saren/TIM before getting implants) and no one is telling you what to do anymore - then indoctrination won't matter, right?

No it's stated and inferred that once you are indoctrinated and they stop telling you what to do your mind decays and you stop being able to take care of yourself. Doesn't say Husk, just says once you are indoctrinated. 

I couldn't find that quote, so I didn't take that into account. As far as I understood, it only said that your mind decays for as long as you are exposed to "the signal" and not just because your mind was indoctrinated. Sovereign could prevent further indoctrination to Saren (until the last part with the implants), so I assumed it was something the reapers had to actively do...

They control how strong the signal is yes, but it's always there. Even when they leave which that wiki quote I pasted tells. So when a person loses the signal they still have mind decay and eventual brain death I guess you can call it.

[jedsithor]

MassEffected555 wrote...


Good points actually.

But again, before gettting hit by the beam the game shows everyone dying. And the squad vanished. You do know why right? They cut scenes showing them getting vaporized and they just removed that scene and your squad from the beam run.. still needs a re write.

Google about the squad getting killed by the beam if you didnt see it, its rough. 

The game doesn't show everyone dying. A deleted scene is a deleted scene. It doesn't count. In Revenge of the Sith there are not one, but two different deleted scenes of Shaak Ti dying and neither of them count (she actually dies in The Force Unleashed). So forget the deleted scenes.

If we assume that Shepard is indoctrinated by the beam (which actually makes no sense by the way, it's a laser beam, not a mind control beam so at best Harbinger would take control of Shepard's mind due to his weakened state in another fashion) then everything that happens afterwards, including the Normandy's escape, is part of the indoctrination, likely a projection into Shepard's mind to show that his friends are alive and well so that he doesn't have the will to break the mind control, which is essentially what indoctrination is.

So the Normandy isn't really on another planet, Joker didn't really fly away, the Normandy crew didn't magically appear on board.

In the game, we don't see his squadmates die. Sure, you can turn around and see them disappear but you're not supposed to turn around. At most it was an oversight by the developers of that sequence, probably due to them cutting the death scenes. What you can see if you play the sequence the way it was supposed to be played, is your squad lying on the ground, apparently dead. But since the actual death scenes were cut from the game, that gives you room to work without drastic rewrites.

So your squadmates were dead on the ground...guess what, so was Shepard. The entire Indoctrination Theory is based on the notion that everything that happened after the Harbinger beam was an illusion and that Shepard is in fact still outside the conduit, lying on the ground and presumed dead. The theory suggests that Shepard breaks indoctrination and wakes up. He survives.

So what I'm saying is that if Shepard survives, there's no reason the other squadmates can't either. Seeing their bodies isn't enough. I'm sure people saw Shepard's body and assumed he was dead. In the game as it is, he manages to get up and keep going. If you apply the indoctrination theory, he goes through the ending and then wakes up, still alive, and keeps going. The same can happen for the other squadmembers and you don't need to rewrite anything. Shepard survives a Reaper attack. If he can do it, so can the others. No rewrite required.

Now, for the record, I actually favour a rewrite of the ending rather than going with a continuation through indoctrination but it is possible to go with indoctrination without rewriting the original ending as I've just shown in a way that allows you to keep your squad members intact.

That can easily be overcome without rewriting that sequence.

[Jaze55]

megabyte36 wrote...

Sheppard never actually gets fully indoctrinated, he resists the whole time and depending on your ending you break free of the attempt to indoctrinate you

Right, then what?

I know it's long but please don't make me start all over, please just go through the thread.