463 réponses à ce sujet

[Jaze55]

Tiax Rules All wrote...

MassEffected555 wrote...

Tiax Rules All wrote...

if we knew shep would get spaced at the begginung of ME2 and survive, say if a dev told us that before release, we would all have said it was stupid and a "plot hole"

but they did it right and we all knew it wasn't AFTER we let them write what they had to write to make it work. let them do the same for the DLC, analysing it before its released or even announced sets yourslef up for making assumptions that will make you look silly in the end. that was my point about this thread.

if they write a plot hole then adress it after the fact, why speculate on speculation?

They had an enite game to explain that. You are asking them to do the same in 5 minutes.

Not a fail comparison at all I'm afraid. 

who said 5 minutes? you did, i didn't... how is one person capable of so much misunderstanding.. are you like 12?

how do you know how long additional content will be? HOW? your assumptions are insane, surely the others see this. why cant you

Ignoring you childish insults exactly how long of an ending are you asking Bioware to make?

5 minutes? 10? an hour? 2 discs?

[clicksqueak]

MassEffected555 wrote...

jaze89 wrote...

MassEffected555 wrote...

jaze89 wrote...

MassEffected555 wrote...

xztr wrote...

RogueBot wrote...

v0rt3x22 wrote...

Well thats exactly why so many people support the theory - because that's what an upcoming DLC might be all about.

If Bioware goes the indoc route, it needs to come on a disc, not just downloadable. There are still a lot of people without internet access and cutting them out of the "real ending" to Shepard's story would be pretty low of Bioware.

Maybe Bioware could go all the way and make it a full-fledged expansion.

OT
I still dont get how that would be the REAL ending if we demand it. Sure it would be more pleasable but the damage is already done. It's not the ending Bioware wanted thus it cant be a true ending. And that is whats making me sad. I would rather have an explanation to why they choose the god-being end rather then any other ending. So we could have a closure to this discussion instead.

Honestly I am really not convinced in the theory im just tired of talking about it. It's full of plot holes no matter how you look at it. 

I would rather they keep as is and just add to it with some explanation. Or just explain it in a post. SAY something already. 

The indoc theory is not happening in any case so I don't know why i even wasted my time. I really did try to listen but in the end, nothing was answered for me and all I gathered was more plot holes and inconsistencies to the story. 

I tried though I really did.


I am officially agreeing to disagree. 

*sigh* I don't know why I'm taking the bait but whatever. What plot holes are in the theory that haven't been argued against? The "evidence" you use are not facts but opinions based off of observations, observations that are not facts. Oh wait, this thread ended a page ago, why am I responding. 

Feel free to go through the post. They are all in there. 

Picture all the indoc playing out. Shep wakes up and............ he is half dead and in extreme mental distress. A human just can't get up and be ok after that. That's my biggest issue. Shep is going to be in terrible shape how the hell is he supposed to do ANYTHING?

You really don't have to answer if you don't want, I am fine with just ignoring the Indoc Theory from now on. I would be happy to keep discussing if you want. 

Well I know the one you used in the other thread you were "not trolling" in. Which were you saying that once indoctrinated that's it you're a reaper tool even though people gave you evidence that people have broken through indoctrination evidence you chose to ignore, Matriarch Benezia, Saren Arterius, Shiala, and the Rachni queen. People - including me - have also said that the Indoctrination Theory theorizes that Shepard is not indoctrinated (not fully indoctrinated) but is in the process of indoctrination and that the ending present in Mass Effect 3 is Shepard's psychological battle against Harbringer's final attempt to indoctrinate Shepard. If you choose Destroy you break free of indoctrination becoming one of the few in the galaxy to do so.

Yes, I am asking what happens after he wakes up.

Do you agree that:

Shepard got blasted by the laser and has some pretty bad physical ailments?

He just fought off an indoctrination attempt, the only person ever to do so. Is it not safe to say he would be in a terrible mental state right after?


So, how is it possible that Shepard AFTER blocking the Indoctrination attempt,  get's up and somehow still saves the galaxy in the state he is in?

doing the impossible is sort of shepards thing 

[Sleeping Slig]

It is a video game after all... At some point we all have to accept its not going to be perfect in terms of logic.

Modifié par Sleeping Slig, 20 mars 2012 - 10:56 .

[Tiax Rules All]

MassEffected555 wrote...

Yes, I am asking what happens after he wakes up.

Do you agree that:

Shepard got blasted by the laser and has some pretty bad physical ailments?

He just fought off an indoctrination attempt, the only person ever to do so. Is it not safe to say he would be in a terrible mental state right after?


So, how is it possible that Shepard AFTER blocking the Indoctrination attempt,  get's up and somehow still saves the galaxy in the state he is in?

the one thing you dont get is

Who cares. he has plot armor on, he gets as hurt as the writers want him to get. If they need him to live and fight on, they will write a way for him to live and fight on. WE ARE NOT BIOWARE. we will know how when we know

Modifié par Tiax Rules All, 20 mars 2012 - 10:57 .

[Jaze55]

Sleeping Slig wrote...

It is a video game after all... At some point we all have to accept no logic is perfect

Then why can't you accept the ending?

Do note I hate the endings and want them fixed. 

[Tiax Rules All]

MassEffected555 wrote...

Ignoring you childish insults exactly how long of an ending are you asking Bioware to make?

5 minutes? 10? an hour? 2 discs?

 im not asking those kinds of rediculous questions, im just explaining how more content is open to them.

it doesnt matter to me if its DLC or EX pack or me4, just as long as whatever it does with the time it doesn it in is good.

[Jaze55]

Tiax Rules All wrote...

MassEffected555 wrote...

Yes, I am asking what happens after he wakes up.

Do you agree that:

Shepard got blasted by the laser and has some pretty bad physical ailments?

He just fought off an indoctrination attempt, the only person ever to do so. Is it not safe to say he would be in a terrible mental state right after?


So, how is it possible that Shepard AFTER blocking the Indoctrination attempt,  get's up and somehow still saves the galaxy in the state he is in?

the one thing you dont get is

Who cares. he has plot armor on, he gets as hurt as the writers want him to get. If they need him to live and foght on, they will write a way for him to live and fight on. WE ARE NOT BIOWARE. we will know how when we know

So why not make Shepard falcon punch the reapers to death then? His plot armor will protect him.

[jaze89]

We don't know, that has yet to be written and it would take a long time to come up with a detailed hypothesis of what happens afterwards. Maybe he's taken back to a triage center which would link with the datapad app (I believe that's what it's called) where your LI (or a member of your squad) sends you a message about meeting up. There are multiple paths it could be take after this. I think the idea of the theory is that BioWare has something planned and perhaps already written, it'd take a lot of effort to write even one of the many ways they could continue with the story. However, like I've said, there are MANY possibilities.

[Jaze55]

Tiax Rules All wrote...

MassEffected555 wrote...

Ignoring you childish insults exactly how long of an ending are you asking Bioware to make?

5 minutes? 10? an hour? 2 discs?

 im not asking those kinds of rediculous questions, im just explaining how more content is open to them.

it doesnt matter to me if its DLC or EX pack or me4, just as long as whatever it does with the time it doesn it in is good.

Are you mad? Your typing keeps getting worse and worse. I can just picture punching the keyboard. 

[Tiax Rules All]

MassEffected555 wrote...

Tiax Rules All wrote...

MassEffected555 wrote...

Yes, I am asking what happens after he wakes up.

Do you agree that:

Shepard got blasted by the laser and has some pretty bad physical ailments?

He just fought off an indoctrination attempt, the only person ever to do so. Is it not safe to say he would be in a terrible mental state right after?


So, how is it possible that Shepard AFTER blocking the Indoctrination attempt,  get's up and somehow still saves the galaxy in the state he is in?

the one thing you dont get is

Who cares. he has plot armor on, he gets as hurt as the writers want him to get. If they need him to live and foght on, they will write a way for him to live and fight on. WE ARE NOT BIOWARE. we will know how when we know

So why not make Shepard falcon punch the reapers to death then? His plot armor will protect him.

why not ask more stupid retorical questions that have nothing to do with anything.

Bioware is not idiots despite what you think. i have faith they would do ending DLC right.

[Tiax Rules All]

MassEffected555 wrote...


Are you mad? Your typing keeps getting worse and worse. I can just picture punching the keyboard. 

you ability to miss the point is uncanny i imagine YOU with your fingers in your eyes with your tongue out.

Modifié par Tiax Rules All, 20 mars 2012 - 10:59 .

[Jaze55]

Tiax Rules All wrote...

MassEffected555 wrote...


Are you mad? Your typing keeps getting worse and worse. I can just picture punching the keyboard. 

you ability to miss the point is uncanny

Dude lol you keep insulting me like a child. Do you really think I am the least bit interested in any point you try to make? LOL

[xsdob]

jkflipflopDAO wrote...

MassEffected555 wrote...

N7L4D wrote...

Again it's an indoctrination attempt, stop changing words, shep is only indoctrinated if she picks synthesis or control

They don't attempt they just indoctrinate you. Show me proof that they ever attempted and failed to indoctrinate someone and I will agree with you no problem.

Oh but the books don't count. Don't forget that. Not everyone read the books so they are not cannon to the video games. 

Just because you didn't read them doesn't mean they aren't canon. Your ignorance doesn't shape the law.

No...I read the books, no one has ever been "attempted" to be indoctrinated, they just were, once you start doing things you wouldn't normally do, Like Shu Qian helping to get his team killed and becoming manicly unstable, or Edan Had-dah working with humans and leaving evidence that could link him to these events, than it's pretty much over for you, theres no fight it off process.

Edan Had'dah was probably the most subtlely indoctrinated person ever, and yet he still did things he couldn't explain, like helping Dr. Qian, paying the blue suns so much money for their help, paying Skarr so much money and taking all of the insults he gave him, and getting so directly invovled in kidnapping kahlee sanders.

Indoctrination just happens, and it's effects aren't something that takes a few minutes to envelope you in. It takes days or weeks to do, and once your at the stage where your having full on halluciantions, your ****ed, it's that simple.

So to answer OP's questions, shepard wakes up, drools, and goes derped from his brain being turned to mush from the rushed indoctrination. That or he rises as a husk or illusive man type husk and...kills himself, or gets shot, or something.

It doesn't end well.

Modifié par xsdob, 20 mars 2012 - 11:02 .

[Sleeping Slig]

MassEffected555 wrote...

Sleeping Slig wrote...

It is a video game after all... At some point we all have to accept no logic is perfect

Then why can't you accept the ending?

Do note I hate the endings and want them fixed. 

That was meant to go along with the post regarding Shep being able to limp towards the Citadel beam etc

My point is that we have to just accept some illogical things because it is a game.

I remember someone didn't like the fact that Shep broke into a sprint after initially limping to the Synthesis ending. Putting aside the fact that the overall ending displeases alot of people, its more emotionally compelling if he runs and jumps into it rather than limps into it...

Modifié par Sleeping Slig, 20 mars 2012 - 11:04 .

[Jaze55]

Tiax Rules All wrote...

MassEffected555 wrote...

Tiax Rules All wrote...

MassEffected555 wrote...

Yes, I am asking what happens after he wakes up.

Do you agree that:

Shepard got blasted by the laser and has some pretty bad physical ailments?

He just fought off an indoctrination attempt, the only person ever to do so. Is it not safe to say he would be in a terrible mental state right after?


So, how is it possible that Shepard AFTER blocking the Indoctrination attempt,  get's up and somehow still saves the galaxy in the state he is in?

the one thing you dont get is

Who cares. he has plot armor on, he gets as hurt as the writers want him to get. If they need him to live and foght on, they will write a way for him to live and fight on. WE ARE NOT BIOWARE. we will know how when we know

So why not make Shepard falcon punch the reapers to death then? His plot armor will protect him.

why not ask more stupid retorical questions that have nothing to do with anything.

Bioware is not idiots despite what you think. i have faith they would do ending DLC right.

I dunno man. The way you champion the Indoc Theory as the only way for BW to fix this leads me to belive you have no faith in Bioware.

If you did you would conisder there are other ways then the indoc theory they themselves can come up with. Or, simply put, you wouldn't defend it so hard. 

Or do you not think the writers at Bioware are capable of fixing their own mess?

Modifié par MassEffected555, 20 mars 2012 - 11:02 .

[Jaze55]

Sleeping Slig wrote...

MassEffected555 wrote...

Sleeping Slig wrote...

It is a video game after all... At some point we all have to accept no logic is perfect

Then why can't you accept the ending?

Do note I hate the endings and want them fixed. 

That was meant to go along with the post regarding Shep being able to limp towards the Citadel beam etc

My point is that at some point we have to just accept some illogical things.

I remember someone didn't like the fact that Shep broke into a spring after initially limping to the Synthesis ending. Putting aside the fact that the overall ending displeases alot of people, its more emotionally compelling if he runs and jumps into it rather than limps into it...

Yep, it was for effect. I had no problem with it, made the scene more dramatic.

[Tiax Rules All]

MassEffected555 wrote...

Tiax Rules All wrote...

MassEffected555 wrote...


Are you mad? Your typing keeps getting worse and worse. I can just picture punching the keyboard. 

you ability to miss the point is uncanny

Dude lol you keep insulting me like a child. Do you really think I am the least bit interested in any point you try to make? LOL

its too bad too becuase despite my frustration, I am making the points that you need to consider.

the questions you are asking are not questions that matter. i know you think they do but this topic is outside of IDT or no IDT, now its just you asking rhetorical questions and denying that no matter what Biowar did or didnt do... you would still be asking the wrong questions.

[Jaze55]

xsdob wrote...

jkflipflopDAO wrote...

MassEffected555 wrote...

N7L4D wrote...

Again it's an indoctrination attempt, stop changing words, shep is only indoctrinated if she picks synthesis or control

They don't attempt they just indoctrinate you. Show me proof that they ever attempted and failed to indoctrinate someone and I will agree with you no problem.

Oh but the books don't count. Don't forget that. Not everyone read the books so they are not cannon to the video games. 

Just because you didn't read them doesn't mean they aren't canon. Your ignorance doesn't shape the law.

No...I read the books, no one has ever been "attempted" to be indoctrinated, they just were, once you start doing things you wouldn't normally do, Like Shu Qian helping to get his team killed and becoming manicly unstable, or Edan Had-dah working with humans and leaving evidence that could link him to these events, than it's pretty much over for you, theres no fight it off process.

Edan Had'dah was probably the most subtlely indoctrinated person ever, and yet he still did things he couldn't explain, like helping Dr. Qian, paying the blue suns so much money for their help, paying Skarr so much money and taking all of the insults he gave him, and getting so directly invovled in kidnapping kahlee sanders.

Indoctrination just happens, and it's effects aren't something that takes a few minutes to envelope you in. It takes days or weeks to do, and once your at the stage where your having full on halluciantions, your ****ed, it's that simple.

So to answer OP's questions, shepard wakes up, drools, and goes derped from his brain being turned to mush from the rushed indoctrination. That or he rises as a husk or illusive man type husk and...kills himself, or gets shot, or something.

It doesn't end well.

Oh so I was right after all.

LOL Thanks bro so so much. Thank you from the bottom of my heart.

[Kujap]

MassEffected555 wrote...
Yes but the question was what happens next.

I don't even know why I am still here.

Let me help you.

Nobody knows what happens next, rational and logical people still despise this ending, no matter what "theory" they believe in, much like you. In either case, we have a situation where a "real" ending makes absolutely no ****ing sense, and is full of holes, like shepard living after the citadel explodes? wat? The indoc theory leaves us with what I'd consider an even worse conclusion, and thats shepard regaining consciousness, (I think the indoc theory is true) and then a fade to black. My first impression, was that shepard, probably with 20 broken bones, is done. Nobody makes it to the beam like we hear on radio chatter, and the reapers win. Although my first impression may be right, and I'm going to say this again.... NOBODY KNOWS what happens, that is why EVERYONE who, again, are rational people, are pissed. And I think EVERYONE, including irrational people, are pissed that our choices throughout the game didn't show at all in the ending. Me included. 

Hope that helps.

Some unrelated personal thoughts: If they intended ANY of this **** with releasing an "aftermath dlc" I'll be livid. NO game should end in dlc, it should END in the game. If they truly did intend for the ending to be an indoctrination attempt on the player, and the game to end with the implication that the reapers win, I'd be happy with that, as that was my first impression. Not fully happy, because as it stands its still inconclusive. If they release an un-intended clarifying free dlc and apologize for making an inconclusive game, I'll be happy, but still a little upset they didn't get it right the first time. 

[Jaze55]

MassEffected555 wrote...

xsdob wrote...

jkflipflopDAO wrote...

MassEffected555 wrote...

N7L4D wrote...

Again it's an indoctrination attempt, stop changing words, shep is only indoctrinated if she picks synthesis or control

They don't attempt they just indoctrinate you. Show me proof that they ever attempted and failed to indoctrinate someone and I will agree with you no problem.

Oh but the books don't count. Don't forget that. Not everyone read the books so they are not cannon to the video games. 

Just because you didn't read them doesn't mean they aren't canon. Your ignorance doesn't shape the law.

No...I read the books, no one has ever been "attempted" to be indoctrinated, they just were, once you start doing things you wouldn't normally do, Like Shu Qian helping to get his team killed and becoming manicly unstable, or Edan Had-dah working with humans and leaving evidence that could link him to these events, than it's pretty much over for you, theres no fight it off process.

Edan Had'dah was probably the most subtlely indoctrinated person ever, and yet he still did things he couldn't explain, like helping Dr. Qian, paying the blue suns so much money for their help, paying Skarr so much money and taking all of the insults he gave him, and getting so directly invovled in kidnapping kahlee sanders.

Indoctrination just happens, and it's effects aren't something that takes a few minutes to envelope you in. It takes days or weeks to do, and once your at the stage where your having full on halluciantions, your ****ed, it's that simple.

So to answer OP's questions, shepard wakes up, drools, and goes derped from his brain being turned to mush from the rushed indoctrination. That or he rises as a husk or illusive man type husk and...kills himself, or gets shot, or something.

It doesn't end well.

Oh so I was right after all.

LOL Thanks bro so so much. Thank you from the bottom of my heart.

Indoc theory will never EVER hold any water now. 

[Samuel L Shepard]

@MassEffected555 My question to you (or anybody) why does shepard survive ONLY with the destroy choice? It seems there is more to the endings if he can only survive with destroy IMO.

[Tiax Rules All]

MassEffected555 wrote...

I dunno man. The way you champion the Indoc Theory as the only way for BW to fix this leads me to belive you have no faith in Bioware.

If you did you would conisder there are other ways then the indoc theory they themselves can come up with. Or, simply put, you wouldn't defend it so hard. 

Or do you not think the writers at Bioware are capable of fixing their own mess?

they would have to deny Indoc theory officially to make this statement true. You believe that they have, but the ending is still "open for interpretation"

if bioware runs with IDT then it wont be fixing thier own mess with my logic. it would be them following the plan al along  and you not getting it.

[jaze89]

MassEffected555 wrote...

xsdob wrote...

jkflipflopDAO wrote...

MassEffected555 wrote...

N7L4D wrote...

Again it's an indoctrination attempt, stop changing words, shep is only indoctrinated if she picks synthesis or control

They don't attempt they just indoctrinate you. Show me proof that they ever attempted and failed to indoctrinate someone and I will agree with you no problem.

Oh but the books don't count. Don't forget that. Not everyone read the books so they are not cannon to the video games. 

Just because you didn't read them doesn't mean they aren't canon. Your ignorance doesn't shape the law.

No...I read the books, no one has ever been "attempted" to be indoctrinated, they just were, once you start doing things you wouldn't normally do, Like Shu Qian helping to get his team killed and becoming manicly unstable, or Edan Had-dah working with humans and leaving evidence that could link him to these events, than it's pretty much over for you, theres no fight it off process.

Edan Had'dah was probably the most subtlely indoctrinated person ever, and yet he still did things he couldn't explain, like helping Dr. Qian, paying the blue suns so much money for their help, paying Skarr so much money and taking all of the insults he gave him, and getting so directly invovled in kidnapping kahlee sanders.

Indoctrination just happens, and it's effects aren't something that takes a few minutes to envelope you in. It takes days or weeks to do, and once your at the stage where your having full on halluciantions, your ****ed, it's that simple.

So to answer OP's questions, shepard wakes up, drools, and goes derped from his brain being turned to mush from the rushed indoctrination. That or he rises as a husk or illusive man type husk and...kills himself, or gets shot, or something.

It doesn't end well.

Oh so I was right after all.

LOL Thanks bro so so much. Thank you from the bottom of my heart.

Wait I thought we couldn't use books as evidence? I'm so confused.

[Tiax Rules All]

Samuel L Shepard wrote...

@MassEffected555 My question to you (or anybody) why does shepard survive ONLY with the destroy choice? It seems there is more to the endings if he can only survive with destroy IMO.

because its the only solution that would allow him to break indcotrination, the other choces represent compromising with the reapers ie giving into indoctrination. click my sig video if you havent seen alreaady.

[Jaze55]

MassEffected555 wrote...

MassEffected555 wrote...

xsdob wrote...

jkflipflopDAO wrote...

MassEffected555 wrote...

N7L4D wrote...

Again it's an indoctrination attempt, stop changing words, shep is only indoctrinated if she picks synthesis or control

They don't attempt they just indoctrinate you. Show me proof that they ever attempted and failed to indoctrinate someone and I will agree with you no problem.

Oh but the books don't count. Don't forget that. Not everyone read the books so they are not cannon to the video games. 

Just because you didn't read them doesn't mean they aren't canon. Your ignorance doesn't shape the law.

No...I read the books, no one has ever been "attempted" to be indoctrinated, they just were, once you start doing things you wouldn't normally do, Like Shu Qian helping to get his team killed and becoming manicly unstable, or Edan Had-dah working with humans and leaving evidence that could link him to these events, than it's pretty much over for you, theres no fight it off process.

Edan Had'dah was probably the most subtlely indoctrinated person ever, and yet he still did things he couldn't explain, like helping Dr. Qian, paying the blue suns so much money for their help, paying Skarr so much money and taking all of the insults he gave him, and getting so directly invovled in kidnapping kahlee sanders.

Indoctrination just happens, and it's effects aren't something that takes a few minutes to envelope you in. It takes days or weeks to do, and once your at the stage where your having full on halluciantions, your ****ed, it's that simple.

So to answer OP's questions, shepard wakes up, drools, and goes derped from his brain being turned to mush from the rushed indoctrination. That or he rises as a husk or illusive man type husk and...kills himself, or gets shot, or something.

It doesn't end well.

Oh so I was right after all.

LOL Thanks bro so so much. Thank you from the bottom of my heart.

Indoc theory will never EVER hold any water now. 

This is my response from now on. You all talked completely out of your asses. I provided facts and the ONLY thing I didn't have were the book. The person I quoted does and gave more evidence backing everything i said.

The indoc theory is bull****. End of story.