463 réponses à ce sujet

[Ariq]

MassEffected555 wrote...

What's next? The game specifically states once you are indoctrinated you are permantly. There is no cure. You can't block it - I dont care about books, not everyone read the books the are not cannon to the video games, they are side stories. 

Wrong. Shiala is cured of Indoctrination. Her case is unique, but no more unique than Shepard's case. Also Saren resists to the point where Sovereign is required to put Reaper tech implants into his body to turn him into a marionette - and even with Reaper tech implants, he manages to shake it off briefly at the end. These two cases negate your thesis. Shepard's unique will combined with the impact of the Prothean Cipher / Eden Beacon is easily sufficient justification to assume he can put up at least as much resistance as Saren, necessitating implantation to complete Indoctrination, and Harbinger won't be given opportunity to perform those implants.

[Jaze55]

ArkkAngel007 wrote...

MassEffected555 wrote...

kunzite wrote...

MassEffected555 wrote...

kunzite wrote...

So,,,clarify this for me everyone, cuz I'm kinda lost following all this.

Is the Indoc Theory saying that all three options of the ending are part of the attempted indoctrination process, and none of it actually happens? I can buy that, really. Either you die in Harbinger's blast, and the vision is the last one you have, kind of getting your peace (though screwing the rest of the galaxy). Or you wake up (the destruction ending) and the real ending begins.


Is that what people mean?

Pretty sure thats what they mean

Then...I have another question. If it is all a dream/hallucination, and the Destroy option breaks the indoc attempt and you wake up in reality.....why does the destruct choice still show all the stuff with the Normandy crashing and the Reapers falling over in London? If you choose Destroy and wake up in the rubble....none of those images make sense, if they didnt happen.

Because it's actually the real ending of the game. Half (or more it seems) seem to think that Bioware is trolling us and held back the ending, if you can belive that.

The other half, who I have zero problems with, want to use it as a way to allow Bioware to simply continue the game and give BW the opportunity to fix the mess of an ending

See I DO get the theory.

No, you don't.

To answer the original question, Harbringer's laser greatly compromises Shepard.  The combination of shock from physical trauma and unconsiousness (one can argue the PTSD compromises Shepard's mind) allows Harbringer to attempt indoctrination on Shepard once the initial wave of Hammer is eradicated.  Shepard's choices result, from as much as can be gathered, that Control and Sythesis lead to Shepard being indoctrinated, and that Destroy with the proper EMS leads to Shepard resisting the final attempt and waking up wounded in London.

Throughout the indoctrination attempt through Shepard's unconsciousness, Shepard's mind offers imagery based on past experiences, both in dialogue, locations, and events.  This holds true to the conclusion of Shepard's choice.  Shepard witnesses the result of the Crucible and the fate of Earth, and the fate of the Normandy and crew, all based on past information.  It's Shepard's mind providing closure, which is ironic considering the complaints about the endings.  Everything after Harbringer's physical attack and before the scene of Shepard awaking in the rubble is a part of the show.  

Bro I hate to say this to you but here is the deal. You went out of your way to tell me in an earlier post in this thread - "It's not our job to write future DLC" but here you are pretty much doing that and telling people how it works. Then you once again say "any ending we think of would be fan fiction" yet here you are using fan fiction to prove a point.

I really can't take anything you say seriously anymore because you are a walking contridiction. All people need to do is look at the 2 posts I quoted to see that. Sorry man I really am but that is my honest opinion and I just simply can't take anything you say as serious now. 

[Yubz]

Shepard just manages to resist the indoctrination temporarily so he can do what needs to be done to defeat the Reapers. Like docking the Crucible. After that he asks his LI to shoot him so he doesn't become a reaper weapon.

Super sad + super heroic ending.

[kunzite]

Candidate 88766 wrote...

kunzite wrote...

Shepard is the true Catalyst. Just a thought from my own theory.

Not sure how that would work. The Protheans knew of the Catalyst before humanity had even fully developed, so why would Shepard be the Catalsyt?

Plus, it seem to similar to Halo for my tastes - Master Chief being the Reclaimer and all that.

Sorry, never played Halo, so I dont know anything about that.

I had a theory posted the other day about how I figure Shepard is the Catalyst. There were things the StarChild said that made me think about it and come to that conclusion. 

As for the Protheans knew of the Catalyst...yes, I suppose they did. But even they didnt know what it was, did they? (I think Javik was asked about that....maybe I'm mistaken)

I think I'll have to be quiet for now, as I would probably confuse people who havent read my theory, and that doesnt  help anyone =). Thanks, though. Got a bit more info I can work with.

[Panicomatic]

MassEffected555 wrote...

Panicomatic wrote...

I'm pretty sure that if you take the destroy ending and have a high enough ems that you will shake of the Indoctrination. If you chose synthesis or control then you lose the inner battle and accept the will of the Reapers.

No sorry the game says it's permanant. Unless you want to open another plot hole to fill in a plot hole.

I agree, indoctrination is permanent once it takes hold. But I argue that Shepard is resistant to indoctrination and effectively is able to not succumb to its effects.

[Jaze55]

Ariq wrote...

MassEffected555 wrote...

What's next? The game specifically states once you are indoctrinated you are permantly. There is no cure. You can't block it - I dont care about books, not everyone read the books the are not cannon to the video games, they are side stories. 

Wrong. Shiala is cured of Indoctrination. Her case is unique, but no more unique than Shepard's case. Also Saren resists to the point where Sovereign is required to put Reaper tech implants into his body to turn him into a marionette - and even with Reaper tech implants, he manages to shake it off briefly at the end. These two cases negate your thesis. Shepard's unique will combined with the impact of the Prothean Cipher / Eden Beacon is easily sufficient justification to assume he can put up at least as much resistance as Saren, necessitating implantation to complete Indoctrination, and Harbinger won't be given opportunity to perform those implants.

Really I am wrong. That's funny because this says I am not:

http://masseffect.wi...com/wiki/Shiala 

Shiala is the only individual who has managed to completely overcome Sovereign's indoctrination without resorting to suicide. This is likely because she was linked directly to the ancient Thorian and 'indoctrinated' by the plant being in turn. After the Thorian died her mind was her own again. 

Mass Effect 3 data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIABAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAEALAAAAAABAAEAQAICTAEAOw%3D%3DEditIf Shiala survived, commander Shepard will receive an email detailing how the colonists on Feros are fighting the Reapers. Due to the Thorian spores, colonists are given an uncanny ability to sense one another, allowing them to think and act as one in battle. The long-term consequences of this connection are unknown, but helpful for the time being.Shiala also mentions that she feels as though she is still indoctrinated, as she can feel the Reapers' influence in her mind. However, she says that this is overridden by her connections to the other colonists.

[blood-dodo]

Do they need to dock the Crucible in the Citadel? We don't know if that's the real Catalyst, could be something completely different

Also, it stands to reason that if Shepard regains his mind for the time being and waits out the destruction of the reapers, his, along with everybody elses', indoctrination will be broken.

Modifié par blood-dodo, 20 mars 2012 - 06:09 .

[Thorn Harvestar]

MassEffected555 wrote...

Ariq wrote...

MassEffected555 wrote...

What's next? The game specifically states once you are indoctrinated you are permantly. There is no cure. You can't block it - I dont care about books, not everyone read the books the are not cannon to the video games, they are side stories. 

Wrong. Shiala is cured of Indoctrination. Her case is unique, but no more unique than Shepard's case. Also Saren resists to the point where Sovereign is required to put Reaper tech implants into his body to turn him into a marionette - and even with Reaper tech implants, he manages to shake it off briefly at the end. These two cases negate your thesis. Shepard's unique will combined with the impact of the Prothean Cipher / Eden Beacon is easily sufficient justification to assume he can put up at least as much resistance as Saren, necessitating implantation to complete Indoctrination, and Harbinger won't be given opportunity to perform those implants.

Really I am wrong. That's funny because this says I am not:

http://masseffect.wi...com/wiki/Shiala 

Shiala is the only individual who has managed to completely overcome Sovereign's indoctrination without resorting to suicide. This is likely because she was linked directly to the ancient Thorian and 'indoctrinated' by the plant being in turn. After the Thorian died her mind was her own again. 

Mass Effect 3 data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIABAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAEALAAAAAABAAEAQAICTAEAOw%3D%3DEditIf Shiala survived, commander Shepard will receive an email detailing how the colonists on Feros are fighting the Reapers. Due to the Thorian spores, colonists are given an uncanny ability to sense one another, allowing them to think and act as one in battle. The long-term consequences of this connection are unknown, but helpful for the time being.Shiala also mentions that she feels as though she is still indoctrinated, as she can feel the Reapers' influence in her mind. However, she says that this is overridden by her connections to the other colonists.

What Shiala's case does do though is show that Reaper Indoctrination isn't 100% foolproof. Take that as you will.

[Jaze55]

blood-dodo wrote...

Do they need to dock the Crucible in the Citadel? We don't know if that's the real Catalyst, could be something completely different

No the catalyst is the citadel you can't change back story now. It's already been stated the Crucible has to dock with the Citadel to make it work.

So who opens the arms so it can be docked? And if Shepard are they just going to recycle the scene we have already of him stumbling to the beam? At least we get to see Maurader Shields again I guess. 

[Jaze55]

Thorn Harvestar wrote...

MassEffected555 wrote...

Ariq wrote...

MassEffected555 wrote...

What's next? The game specifically states once you are indoctrinated you are permantly. There is no cure. You can't block it - I dont care about books, not everyone read the books the are not cannon to the video games, they are side stories. 

Wrong. Shiala is cured of Indoctrination. Her case is unique, but no more unique than Shepard's case. Also Saren resists to the point where Sovereign is required to put Reaper tech implants into his body to turn him into a marionette - and even with Reaper tech implants, he manages to shake it off briefly at the end. These two cases negate your thesis. Shepard's unique will combined with the impact of the Prothean Cipher / Eden Beacon is easily sufficient justification to assume he can put up at least as much resistance as Saren, necessitating implantation to complete Indoctrination, and Harbinger won't be given opportunity to perform those implants.

Really I am wrong. That's funny because this says I am not:

http://masseffect.wi...com/wiki/Shiala 

Shiala is the only individual who has managed to completely overcome Sovereign's indoctrination without resorting to suicide. This is likely because she was linked directly to the ancient Thorian and 'indoctrinated' by the plant being in turn. After the Thorian died her mind was her own again. 

Mass Effect 3 data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIABAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAEALAAAAAABAAEAQAICTAEAOw%3D%3DEditIf Shiala survived, commander Shepard will receive an email detailing how the colonists on Feros are fighting the Reapers. Due to the Thorian spores, colonists are given an uncanny ability to sense one another, allowing them to think and act as one in battle. The long-term consequences of this connection are unknown, but helpful for the time being.Shiala also mentions that she feels as though she is still indoctrinated, as she can feel the Reapers' influence in her mind. However, she says that this is overridden by her connections to the other colonists.

What Shiala's case does do though is show that Reaper Indoctrination isn't 100% foolproof. Take that as you will.

I guess we can say Shepard has a Thorium in his back pocket then. 

[FSOAH]

Synthezise: Can't play on
Control: Can't play on
Destroy: Shepard wakes up in London, taking up the fight. Uses crucible as planned. Long fights and no speculation for no one.

[ArkkAngel007]

Candidate 88766 wrote...

ArkkAngel007 wrote...

It's not necesarilly will power though.  Shepard's mind has a resistance, and that can be for any number of neurological reasons.  In any other mind, the Reapers could try a subtle or forceful application of the signal, which has already been shown to happen in the endings through IT...when Reapers amp up the signal, we see it transmuted into imagery through TIM's actions.  Remember that, if IT stands, Shepard is within his mind, and that anything affecting it will cause a parallel image to that action.  Now that is pretty mint IMO if it's the case.

However, something in Shepard's mind is either disrupting or "blocking" this signal.  Whatever is causing this requires Shepard to accept the message in order to remove this barrier.

This was already heavily discussed in the main thread fairly early on.  Hopefully the above I posted makes sense and that I didn't botch it.

The question is why indoctrination would force Shepard to go into his own mind, when there hasn't been indication before that this is how t works, apart from Paul Grayson who was also pumped full or Red Sand at the time.

I like the idea of the theory, and if it wasn't constrained by the endings it could work. As it is, it is having to work around stuff like the Catalyst child and all the scenes of the Crucible activating and the Normandy crashing etc. If none of this stuff was here, the IT could be much better. If the scenes of Shepard arriving on the Citadel were actually happening for example, but you could hear Reaper voices in your mind and your visions was starting to swim, it would be much more convincing than Shepard simply being in the normal world one moment and then suddenly being in a dream world.

The IT would be much more plausible if it wasn't bound by the constraints of the current endings. If Bioware was to write entirely new endings, the IT could work really well and I'd support it. However, it just seems far too unlikely to me that it is actually true atm.

And again, it's all based on Shepard's unique situation.

1. Shepard has an unheard of resistance to indoctrination signals according to Arrival and Liara.  Most likely this is neurological.

2. Shepard's goal doesn't leave any maneuverability for the Reapers to exploit.

3. Shepard was suffering PTSD following Virmire, possibly the Suicide Mission, Earth, and Thessia.  Combined with the severe trauma, shock, and conscious state of Shepard after Harbringer's attack, Shepard is much more succeptible at this point than any other.

4. We have never, throughout any medium in Mass Effect, been in the mind of an unconscious individual undergoing indoctrination.  This leaves a lot of maneuverability for BioWare, as it's untested ground.  Combined with the fact that passive indoctrination has no effect on Shepard, it makes for a very interesting situation.

And I agree on the constraints.  But again, it isn't meant to be a truth that replaces the ending to pave way for a new one...which would be fan fiction.   It's a perception on the ending in an attempt to understand why the plot holes are present and why these odd scenes, especially the one of Shepard alive, take place.

It would make for some appreciative storytelling if there was more to go on.

[Aduro]

MassEffected555 wrote...

So who opens the arms so it can be docked? And if Shepard are they just going to recycle the scene we have already of him stumbling to the beam? At least we get to see Maurader Shields again I guess. 

Again... anyone could still get to the beam and open the arms.

Anderson, squad mates, ME2 characters, Wrex, Chuck-FREAKING-Noris!

The beam is still there. There's even unused audio of Joker coming to save the day they could use to have him distract Harby and give them safe passage to the beam.

Why keep asking who when these options are available?

And sure, maybe recycle Shepard's scene - though that might grate some fans

[soull2]

MassEffected555 wrote...

Thorn Harvestar wrote...

MassEffected555 wrote...

Ariq wrote...

MassEffected555 wrote...

What's next? The game specifically states once you are indoctrinated you are permantly. There is no cure. You can't block it - I dont care about books, not everyone read the books the are not cannon to the video games, they are side stories. 

Wrong. Shiala is cured of Indoctrination. Her case is unique, but no more unique than Shepard's case. Also Saren resists to the point where Sovereign is required to put Reaper tech implants into his body to turn him into a marionette - and even with Reaper tech implants, he manages to shake it off briefly at the end. These two cases negate your thesis. Shepard's unique will combined with the impact of the Prothean Cipher / Eden Beacon is easily sufficient justification to assume he can put up at least as much resistance as Saren, necessitating implantation to complete Indoctrination, and Harbinger won't be given opportunity to perform those implants.

Really I am wrong. That's funny because this says I am not:

http://masseffect.wi...com/wiki/Shiala 

Shiala is the only individual who has managed to completely overcome Sovereign's indoctrination without resorting to suicide. This is likely because she was linked directly to the ancient Thorian and 'indoctrinated' by the plant being in turn. After the Thorian died her mind was her own again. 

Mass Effect 3 data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIABAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAEALAAAAAABAAEAQAICTAEAOw%3D%3DEditIf Shiala survived, commander Shepard will receive an email detailing how the colonists on Feros are fighting the Reapers. Due to the Thorian spores, colonists are given an uncanny ability to sense one another, allowing them to think and act as one in battle. The long-term consequences of this connection are unknown, but helpful for the time being.Shiala also mentions that she feels as though she is still indoctrinated, as she can feel the Reapers' influence in her mind. However, she says that this is overridden by her connections to the other colonists.

What Shiala's case does do though is show that Reaper Indoctrination isn't 100% foolproof. Take that as you will.

I guess we can say Shepard has a Thorium in his back pocket then. 

Who was it that was studying the Thorian? Not Cerberus... anyway, isn't it possible they could recreate that connection override?

[Thorn Harvestar]

MassEffected555 wrote...

Thorn Harvestar wrote...

What Shiala's case does do though is show that Reaper Indoctrination isn't 100% foolproof. Take that as you will.

I guess we can say Shepard has a Thorium in his back pocket then. 

Perhaps side effects of Project Lazarus? Shepard's brain has been through a lot recently.

I don't know, I mean, I can understand the idea that Destroy means you never succumbed to Indoctrination, though the Reapers tried. In that case, picking the Synth or Control endings should mean Shepard cannot survive the conclusion.

Modifié par Thorn Harvestar, 20 mars 2012 - 06:13 .

[Jaze55]

soull2 wrote...

MassEffected555 wrote...

Thorn Harvestar wrote...

MassEffected555 wrote...

Ariq wrote...

MassEffected555 wrote...

What's next? The game specifically states once you are indoctrinated you are permantly. There is no cure. You can't block it - I dont care about books, not everyone read the books the are not cannon to the video games, they are side stories. 

Wrong. Shiala is cured of Indoctrination. Her case is unique, but no more unique than Shepard's case. Also Saren resists to the point where Sovereign is required to put Reaper tech implants into his body to turn him into a marionette - and even with Reaper tech implants, he manages to shake it off briefly at the end. These two cases negate your thesis. Shepard's unique will combined with the impact of the Prothean Cipher / Eden Beacon is easily sufficient justification to assume he can put up at least as much resistance as Saren, necessitating implantation to complete Indoctrination, and Harbinger won't be given opportunity to perform those implants.

Really I am wrong. That's funny because this says I am not:

http://masseffect.wi...com/wiki/Shiala 

Shiala is the only individual who has managed to completely overcome Sovereign's indoctrination without resorting to suicide. This is likely because she was linked directly to the ancient Thorian and 'indoctrinated' by the plant being in turn. After the Thorian died her mind was her own again. 

Mass Effect 3 data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIABAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAEALAAAAAABAAEAQAICTAEAOw%3D%3DEditIf Shiala survived, commander Shepard will receive an email detailing how the colonists on Feros are fighting the Reapers. Due to the Thorian spores, colonists are given an uncanny ability to sense one another, allowing them to think and act as one in battle. The long-term consequences of this connection are unknown, but helpful for the time being.Shiala also mentions that she feels as though she is still indoctrinated, as she can feel the Reapers' influence in her mind. However, she says that this is overridden by her connections to the other colonists.

What Shiala's case does do though is show that Reaper Indoctrination isn't 100% foolproof. Take that as you will.

I guess we can say Shepard has a Thorium in his back pocket then. 

Who was it that was studying the Thorian? Not Cerberus... anyway, isn't it possible they could recreate that connection override?

Exogeni I belive was studying it, which was owned by Saren NOT Cerubus.
Saren was studying it to see if he could find a way to counter the indoctrination attemps from Sovy

[Doctoglethorpe]

Kill the reapers, indoctrination goes away?

Pretty straight forward I think...

Maybe it doesn't and you end up in an insane asylum.  Still better ending then ME3. 

[ArkkAngel007]

MassEffected555 wrote...


Bro I hate to say this to you but here is the deal. You went out of your way to tell me in an earlier post in this thread - "It's not our job to write future DLC" but here you are pretty much doing that and telling people how it works. Then you once again say "any ending we think of would be fan fiction" yet here you are using fan fiction to prove a point.

I really can't take anything you say seriously anymore because you are a walking contridiction. All people need to do is look at the 2 posts I quoted to see that. Sorry man I really am but that is my honest opinion and I just simply can't take anything you say as serious now. 

How was it a contradiction?  It didn't change the events, it doesn't require future DLC.  It's a different perspective of the ending.  Nothing was added or taken away.  What I said was in no way fan fiction.  I also made it clear that those were possiblities, as it's a theory, and not fact.

Again, it isn't being set up for post-ending DLC.  The Shepard lives ending does that all on it's own to be honest.  It's specifically about a different perception of the ending that explains a majority, though not all, of the ending plot holes.  In no way is it fan fiction.

Stop twisiting my words to brush off the fact that you gave incorrect information regarding the theory.  Which was all that I was doing.  I'm not the mastermind behind the theory, just the messenger.

I'm all up for having a healthy debate, and I've shared with some of your concerns including the primary one, but you're continuing to carry on in a way that is contrary to how you want people to perceive you.

Modifié par ArkkAngel007, 20 mars 2012 - 06:20 .

[soull2]

MassEffected555 wrote...


Exogeni I belive was studying it, which was owned by Saren NOT Cerubus.
Saren was studying it to see if he could find a way to counter the indoctrination attemps from Sovy

Between that and Cerberus's messing with indoctrination shows that it is actually not set in stone. It probably not completely curable but people may be able to live with it given treatment. Not saying it has to be but that it could be.

Modifié par soull2, 20 mars 2012 - 06:18 .

[Jaze55]

ArkkAngel007 wrote...

MassEffected555 wrote...


Bro I hate to say this to you but here is the deal. You went out of your way to tell me in an earlier post in this thread - "It's not our job to write future DLC" but here you are pretty much doing that and telling people how it works. Then you once again say "any ending we think of would be fan fiction" yet here you are using fan fiction to prove a point.

I really can't take anything you say seriously anymore because you are a walking contridiction. All people need to do is look at the 2 posts I quoted to see that. Sorry man I really am but that is my honest opinion and I just simply can't take anything you say as serious now. 

How was it a contradiction?  It didn't change the events, it doesn't require future DLC.  It's a different perspective of the ending.  Nothing was added or taken away.  What I said was in no way fan fiction.  I also made it clear that those were possiblities, as it's a theory, and not fact.

Stop twisiting my words to brush off the fact that you gave incorrect information regarding the theory.  Which was all that I was doing.  I'm not the mastermind behind the theory, just the messenger.

I'm all up for having a healthy debate, and I've shared with some of your concerns including the primary one, but you're continuing to carry on in a way that is contrary to how you want people to perceive you.

If you explain to me how you saying" It's not our job to write future DLC" yet you make posts called PROOF INDOC THEORY IS TRUE and fight for it how exactly are you not writing future DLC for them?

Then in another post you tell me "if we write the ending it will be fan fiction" yet you use this FAN FICTION theory as something for them to use makes any sense, I will apoligize and be happy to continue discussing this with you.

But what you said seems like a contradiction to me and it's hard for me to take you seriously. I don't mean that to be rude or offensive, I am just confused by your reasoning that is all. 

Modifié par MassEffected555, 20 mars 2012 - 06:21 .

[Jaze55]

soull2 wrote...

MassEffected555 wrote...


Exogeni I belive was studying it, which was owned by Saren NOT Cerubus.
Saren was studying it to see if he could find a way to counter the indoctrination attemps from Sovy

Between that and Cerberus's messing with indoctrination shows that it is actually not set in stone. It probably not completely curable but people may be able to live with it given treatment. Not saying it has to be but that it could be.

I would believe that would be feasible if they has mentioned it ever again. Unfortunately they don't except if you save Shiala in ME2 you see her as a green Asari. They let that story die so it would be hard for them to all of a sudden use that as a viable reason Shep can avoid indoctrination. 

[Ariq]

MassEffected555 wrote...

Really I am wrong. That's funny because this says I am not:

Yes, you are wrong. Did you even read what you quoted? Above, you said that there has never been anyone cured of Indoctrination. But the wiki link you cite specifically says Shiala was cured. So which is it? Your original argument was "no one". Now it's 'only one person'? Which is it? There's no cure, or there's only one known cure? Is it that no one has ever resisted, or only a few select cases have resisted? To repeat your quote:

The game specifically states once you are indoctrinated you are permantly. There is no cure.

But Shiala was cured. You even quote the relevant section. Your quote contradicts your assertion.

Shiala is the only individual who has managed to completely overcome Sovereign's indoctrination

She was unique, but she was cured. You see, Shepard is also a unique individual. He has a unique will; that's a line repeated throughout the games. He has been exposed to more direct Prothean intervention (well, except for Javik). If Shiala can be the unique example of breaking free, if Saren can be the unique example of someone requiring implants to complete Indoctrination, then Shepard can be the one who walks away from it. Harbinger never gets the chance to implant Reaper tech into Shepard's brain, maybe that would be sufficient to push him over to Saren territory. We don't know. But we have every reason to believe that if anyone can resist, it would be Shepard.

[LolaLei]

MassEffected555 wrote...

LolaLei wrote...

MassEffected555 wrote...

Just what the title says.

What's next? The game specifically states once you are indoctrinated you are permantly. There is no cure. You can't block it - I dont care about books, not everyone read the books the are not cannon to the video games, they are side stories.

OK so according to the video game you can't get rid of indoctrination. So what happens after Shep wakes up? Only think I can think of is Benezia and Saren. They were able to resist if only for a short time and that was for Saren to kill himself and for Benezia to give them some info on Saren. Note that Benezia right back at trying to kill SHep and crew after she gave the info.

So taking that into consideration, what does Shep do next? Save the day in 2 minutes or less and then shoot himself in the face before he is back under Reaper control?

It is also stated that when the Reapers leave after a cycle the people who were indoctrinated and no longer hear the signal from the reapers just stand around and starve to death. The reapers leave and the signal stops, but everyone is still a brain dead vegie.

So please let me know what to expect after the Indoc Theory because it looks pretty bleak to me.  

If I was Bioware and I decided to run with the indoctrination theory then the only way I can see it working would be as follows:

Shepards picks from the control, merge or destroy options - regardless of which option you pick Shepard suddenly wakes up from the attempted indoctrination hallucination (either in the rubble or in a hospital somewhere or whatever) and as far as the player knows Shepard has beaten the indoctrination. You then carry on with your mission to defeat the Reapers. Now, here's where the plot twist kicks in: As you approach the end boss fight/final scenes IF you picked the control or merge option during the hallucination then Harbinger assumes direct control of Shepards body - you then have to play as one of you team members or LI to defeat the indoctinated Shepard. Your chosen squad member deals the fatal blow and you watch as Shepard bleeds out. In his/her last dying breaths Shepard briefly regains control of his/her body to tell the chosen team member/LI how much he/she loves them before dying (I feel this would be a very poignant and heart breaking scene.)

IF however you chose the destroy option Shepard was able to successfully fight off the indoctrination attempt and go on to win a boss fight against Harbinger or whoever/defeat the Reapers once and for all.

... Somewhere amongst all that you get to see your war assets in action and your EMS score depends on how successful they are etc.

But what about the Crucible? It's the main plot in the game getting it built. So we can't ignore it. Who opens the arms of the Citadel and how do they get there?

Do they recycle the scene of Shep making his way to the beam? We say that already I don't think people want to see it again, so whats the deal with the Crucible and opening of the Citadels arms? They HAVE to use the Crucible you simply can't ignore that large of a plot device.

Good point, I forgot about that!

I guess the final scenes would still need to be in the Citadel. Soooo Shepard and his/her crew would still have to some how make their way into the beam (perhaps thats where your war assets come into play, having cut scenes of them clearing the path for Shepard.) Shepard and co make it into the Citadel for real this time, where they have to fight through a few waves of monsters to get to the control panel or whatever. That's where the indoctrination thing can kick in and plays out as I described above. Then either the LI gets the crucible to work (after Shepard dies) and sacrifices himself because he/she can't bare to live without Shepard OR Shepard in his last moments regains enough control to set the crucible off himself, buying his team mates enough time to get the hell out of their before they blow up. IF Shepard picked the destroy option during the hallucination/indoctrination attempt and successfully beats indoctrination then they signal to joker for him to come and get them out of their - you then have a time limit in which to get out of there alive. IF your EMS is high enough then everyone escapes, if not some or all of your team mates die.

Better?

[TheMadBlimper]

Pending on your choice, you either have to play as one of your squad and be forced to take down an indoctrinated Shepard, or you play as Shepard and ride on to victory (pending on your EMS score). That would be good, methinks.

[soull2]

MassEffected555 wrote...


I would believe that would be feasible if they has mentioned it ever again. Unfortunately they don't except if you save Shiala in ME2 you see her as a green Asari. They let that story die so it would be hard for them to all of a sudden use that as a viable reason Shep can avoid indoctrination. 

I would agree with you (Also, I killed her so it would be a no go for me anyways) except that TIM was messing around with indoctrination and Hacket mentions getting good information from that.

Modifié par soull2, 20 mars 2012 - 06:24 .