649 réponses à ce sujet

[The Razman]

NOD-INFORMER37 wrote...

I'm not looking for a "happy ending" I just want a decent ending that actually puts all our past choices in consideration. Multipl endings to choose from would be nice too, I'm shocked they didnt add it to begin with.

But theres nothing wrong at all with having a "happy" ending as an OPTION. Like Benchpress above me said, its a game. If you like sad endings then thats perfectly fine by me, but why deprive from those who are looking for a more postive ending? 

Look ... I don't mean to be rude ... but there are six pages of conversation detailing in meticulous detail exactly the answer to that. Couldn't you have read them before posting that question?

[10bears]

QueenMirage wrote...

I dont need a happy ending to be satisfied with the conclusion. What I do need to be satisfied, is and ending that makes more sense; fills the plot holes, and doesnt feel rushed. Its was as if they had reached their time limit for the game, and just slapped something together, figuring it would some how make sense.

this   ^

[The Razman]

iakus wrote...

BlueJeans wrote...

There's no real bittersweet feeling if you can simply choose to turn it
off and have a happy situation instead. We've already seen this in ME3

I disagree with this statement. First time I played DAO I chose to sacrifice my warden because it would have been out of character to do otherwise. And yes it was very bittersweet. Just because there is an option to have a happy ending doesn't mean that everyone will choose it. It depends on the kind of character you're playing and the choices you've made. That's why there are ME2 guides for the worst possible ending. People want to experience several different endings, ranging from complete victory to total failure. It's one thing that makes replaying the game fun.

Agreed.

This isn't Assassin's Creed or Alan Wake, where the player is just along for the ride and has no input in how the story progresses.   this is Mass Effect, a (supposed) rpg where the player has some agency in shaping the story.  There is zero reason why a happy (or to be more accurate a "happier") ending shouldn't be possible based on player choice. 

Apart from the fact that stories which give players the power of auteurism fail at providing specific moments of tragedy and heartbreak? As evidenced by all of video-game history to date?

Sorry, but the notion that because Mass Effect gives us an illusion of choice throughout it should give us complete control over the narrative is ridiculous. That completely undermines the writer's ability to tell the story.

[NOD-INFORMER37]

The Razman wrote...

NOD-INFORMER37 wrote...

I'm not looking for a "happy ending" I just want a decent ending that actually puts all our past choices in consideration. Multipl endings to choose from would be nice too, I'm shocked they didnt add it to begin with.

But theres nothing wrong at all with having a "happy" ending as an OPTION. Like Benchpress above me said, its a game. If you like sad endings then thats perfectly fine by me, but why deprive from those who are looking for a more postive ending? 

Look ... I don't mean to be rude ... but there are six pages of conversation detailing in meticulous detail exactly the answer to that. Couldn't you have read them before posting that question?

No, I do not wish to read six pages of conversation to "answer" my question. Especially if its in meticulous detail, because I havent beat the game myself(spoilers). But I sure know enough to understand why ppl are upset over it.

Still,  I see no reason at all why other endings to choose from, whether they're "happy" or whatever, cannot be an option for those who want it. If Bioware released such a DLC then there is plenty of ways they can do it without screwing over those who do like the current ending. 

Modifié par NOD-INFORMER37, 12 mai 2012 - 12:39 .

[Father_Jerusalem]

I'm honestly curious here, but say someone walks up to you and gives you two options:

Option A: A million dollars, tax free.
Option B: A kick to the mean bean machine.

How many people are going to pick option B?

Putting in an uber happy ending makes getting any ending OTHER than that one simply WRONG.

If you want a happy ending, then the question is, what are you willing to give up to get it? And don't come back with "But Thessia and Mordin and and and" because those losses are already in the game itself - they are part of the losses you suffer to get ANY ending. The happier the ending you want, the more you have to give up to get it. So... who's gotta die so you can have little blue babies?

[Gen Petitt]

I would have at least wanted a Noble Six ending that was 1000X better than the Bioware one Bungie and 343 FTW!

[Reorte]

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

I'm honestly curious here, but say someone walks up to you and gives you two options:

Option A: A million dollars, tax free.
Option B: A kick to the mean bean machine.

How many people are going to pick option B?

Putting in an uber happy ending makes getting any ending OTHER than that one simply WRONG.

If you want a happy ending, then the question is, what are you willing to give up to get it? And don't come back with "But Thessia and Mordin and and and" because those losses are already in the game itself - they are part of the losses you suffer to get ANY ending. The happier the ending you want, the more you have to give up to get it. So... who's gotta die so you can have little blue babies?

As opposed to the losses you've got to suffer to have a miserable ending? Sorry, I will say those because they are all part of what leads up to the end whether they're avoidable or not. The end of the story is a fundamental part of the story, not something that exists entirely in isolation from the rest of it. And quite honestly what sort of argument have you put forward there? It may as well be "A million dollars or a kick between the legs means no-one will choose the latter so instead I'll offer your left kneecap smashed or your right."

That said an ME2-style ending mission but with some of the choices being fatal no matter what (e.g. if you would lose some people holding position regardless) would've been fine and appropriate to the game.

Modifié par Reorte, 12 mai 2012 - 12:44 .

[Simocrates]

Derp space magic hurp derp and duh u dun undrstan cuz derp derrrr give me wat i want derp i haz rites u need 2 lurn 2 reed cuz derp durrr.

And that sums up everyone besides the op in this thread.

[ghost9191]

Zanza86 wrote...

Derp space magic hurp derp and duh u dun undrstan cuz derp derrrr give me wat i want derp i haz rites u need 2 lurn 2 reed cuz derp durrr.

And that sums up everyone besides the op in this thread.

you spelt read wrong:D

you could easily have a happy ending if you had a second option that was just as good and bad. alot of the choices you make are on moral grounds. why not have it like that at the end. i believed destroy was the right ending before i knew shepard would survive, hell he didn't on my first play through because i didn't play MP. But i still went for it , pushed on through my manly tears and blew up that motherf**king pipe like a boss.

But i am getting off track. you can have a happy ending if you have another equal ending with it's pros and cons, CHOICES

Modifié par ghost9191, 12 mai 2012 - 12:51 .

[Simocrates]

ghost9191 wrote...

Zanza86 wrote...

Derp space magic hurp derp and duh u dun undrstan cuz derp derrrr give me wat i want derp i haz rites u need 2 lurn 2 reed cuz derp durrr.

And that sums up everyone besides the op in this thread.

you spelt read wrong:D

Errr get your facts right before you speak. There is no reason why BioWare can't send me a cheque for one million dollars in compensation for molding their entire game to what I want.

[Iakus]

The Razman wrote...

Apart from the fact that stories which give players the power of auteurism fail at providing specific moments of tragedy and heartbreak? As evidenced by all of video-game history to date?

Sorry, but the notion that because Mass Effect gives us an illusion of choice throughout it should give us complete control over the narrative is ridiculous. That completely undermines the writer's ability to tell the story.

And only a Sith deals in absolutes

If you think action games tell better stories than rpgs, that's your perogative, one I disagree with, as up until now Bioware has told some pretty good tales which actually lets the player have a say in shaping how it turns out.

And I never said complete control, I said input.  Player choice should shape how things turn out.  There's a balance point between complete player control and just being an observer.  Shepard at the end, had a clear view on teh observation deck of the Kobyashi Maru.

[ghost9191]

Zanza86 wrote...

ghost9191 wrote...

Zanza86 wrote...

Derp space magic hurp derp and duh u dun undrstan cuz derp derrrr give me wat i want derp i haz rites u need 2 lurn 2 reed cuz derp durrr.

And that sums up everyone besides the op in this thread.

you spelt read wrong:D

Errr get your facts right before you speak. There is no reason why BioWare can't send me a cheque for one million dollars in compensation for molding their entire game to what I want.

i think you are part of the group you described:whistle:

[darthrevaninlight]

The Razman wrote...

I've seen people say that there would be no problem with just having a happy ending as one possible ending. This is incorrect.

The nature of a game, or at least how we play games at present, is that we will always try to "win". Even in a story-based game like Mass Effect, we will take what we perceive to be the "best possible ending" and take that as the "winning" one. If you have a happy ending ... people will take that as the best possible one, completely negating the point of having an unhappy ending at all. There's no real bittersweet feeling if you can simply choose to turn it off and have a happy situation instead. We've already seen this in ME3. The "secret ending" has been seized upon by many people as being the "perfect" one. If you give gamers a sniff of an ending that works out better for the player's goals than the others ... they'll take it as a loosely defined canonical one.

If you want to have an emotional, bittersweet ending ... you can't have a button which says "press here to have a happy ending instead".

EDIT: Sidenote - This is only a response to people who say "why can't we have a happy ending?" Not to sound harsh, but I really don't care about anyone who's going to come in and say "But it wasn't that it wasn't a happy ending, I didn't like it because ...". This thread wasn't for that.

I'd just say that it'd be better not to limit something as being "happy" or "unhappy".
There are things people wanted to see as an outcome for the game. This outcome, within reason, should be possible if the player has taken certain steps.
Like, for instance, let's say a person wanted to see what happened to one of the main characters, like... Ashley, for instance. The player romances her, and wants to see the outcome of this romance. Their idea of a "happy ending" would be the ability to be with this love interest, even at a great cost, perhaps having Shepard lose all of his/her limbs. Genocide even. This shouldn't be thrown from the equation, but the player would perceive this as happy.

Another player might be consider the fate of the universe more important than Shepard's, and consider having their Shepard sacrifice everything to be a happy ending.

Happiness is in the eye of the beholder. What is wanted is mere variety. What made Mass Effect unique was the ability to forge our own stories and characters. That's all I wanted from ME3. I hope the Extended Cut offers us this.

[Sgt Stryker]

iakus wrote...

BlueJeans wrote...

There's no real bittersweet feeling if you can simply choose to turn it
off and have a happy situation instead. We've already seen this in ME3

I disagree with this statement. First time I played DAO I chose to sacrifice my warden because it would have been out of character to do otherwise. And yes it was very bittersweet. Just because there is an option to have a happy ending doesn't mean that everyone will choose it. It depends on the kind of character you're playing and the choices you've made. That's why there are ME2 guides for the worst possible ending. People want to experience several different endings, ranging from complete victory to total failure. It's one thing that makes replaying the game fun.

Agreed.

This isn't Assassin's Creed or Alan Wake, where the player is just along for the ride and has no input in how the story progresses.   this is Mass Effect, a (supposed) rpg where the player has some agency in shaping the story.  There is zero reason why a happy (or to be more accurate a "happier") ending shouldn't be possible based on player choice. 

Here's an idea: Why not have the "Shepard lives and is reunited with LI/crew" ending available to people who either imported from ME1 or (for PS3) imported from ME2 + Genesis comic? I would be truly amazed if people were opposed to even that.

[ghost9191]

but bioware has always rewarded those who complete the game, and i mean complete not some half ass attempt at it. which if you do everything right you shoulld get the chance at a happy ending. like what they did. a lot of ppl speed through it and then ask why the earth is seen burning and wonder what they did wrong

[Simocrates]

ghost9191 wrote...

Zanza86 wrote...

ghost9191 wrote...

Zanza86 wrote...

Derp space magic hurp derp and duh u dun undrstan cuz derp derrrr give me wat i want derp i haz rites u need 2 lurn 2 reed cuz derp durrr.

And that sums up everyone besides the op in this thread.

you spelt read wrong:D

Errr get your facts right before you speak. There is no reason why BioWare can't send me a cheque for one million dollars in compensation for molding their entire game to what I want.

i think you are part of the group you described:whistle:

Erm you don't get it, lol stop trying to be smart like me.

[BlueJeans]

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

I'm honestly curious here, but say someone walks up to you and gives you two options:

Option A: A million dollars, tax free.
Option B: A kick to the mean bean machine.

How many people are going to pick option B?

Putting in an uber happy ending makes getting any ending OTHER than that one simply WRONG.

You're confusing reality and video games. In real life I would choose complete victory in a video game I might choose differently. I sacrificed my first Warden in DAO because it was the correct choice for that character. I've had other wardens who subsequently survived but I still consider my Ultimate Sacrifice Warden my canon because she was my favorite character and I really loved her noble sacrifice. So no, there is no WRONG ending. It all depends on the character and their choices.

[ghost9191]

Zanza86 wrote...

ghost9191 wrote...

Zanza86 wrote...

ghost9191 wrote...

Zanza86 wrote...

Derp space magic hurp derp and duh u dun undrstan cuz derp derrrr give me wat i want derp i haz rites u need 2 lurn 2 reed cuz derp durrr.

And that sums up everyone besides the op in this thread.

you spelt read wrong:D

Errr get your facts right before you speak. There is no reason why BioWare can't send me a cheque for one million dollars in compensation for molding their entire game to what I want.

i think you are part of the group you described:whistle:

Erm you don't get it, lol stop trying to be smart like me.

but to do that wouldn't it require me to be less smart?

[Reorte]

Zanza86 wrote...

Erm you don't get it, lol stop trying to be smart like me.

If that isn't a troll post it's the most uninetionally comical one I've read today.

[ghost9191]

yes and i was joking, hints the smiley. and then just felt like continuing

[Simocrates]

ghost9191 wrote...

yes and i was joking, hints the smiley. and then just felt like continuing

[julio77777]

There is one reason there's no happy ending : the writers didn't write it, you can try to justify or ague as much as you want, whatever their reason was that won't change.

And for the record I too chose to sacrifice my warden in DAO as my first ending even though I was proposed a "happier" ending. That's the magic of having choices you get to enjoy the different outcomes. And that's *in my opinion* what ME3 lacked the most in the end.

But whatever it's done time to move on people seriously repeating the same debates over and over again won't help.

[Iakus]

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

I'm honestly curious here, but say someone walks up to you and gives you two options:

Option A: A million dollars, tax free.
Option B: A kick to the mean bean machine.

How many people are going to pick option B?

Putting in an uber happy ending makes getting any ending OTHER than that one simply WRONG.

If you want a happy ending, then the question is, what are you willing to give up to get it? And don't come back with "But Thessia and Mordin and and and" because those losses are already in the game itself - they are part of the losses you suffer to get ANY ending. The happier the ending you want, the more you have to give up to get it. So... who's gotta die so you can have little blue babies?

You're going to have to define "uber happy ending" here as A) that's going to mean different things to different people. And   Some would probably say that an uberhappy ending was impossible since the opening sequence.

[Father_Jerusalem]

BlueJeans wrote...

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

I'm honestly curious here, but say someone walks up to you and gives you two options:

Option A: A million dollars, tax free.
Option B: A kick to the mean bean machine.

How many people are going to pick option B?

Putting in an uber happy ending makes getting any ending OTHER than that one simply WRONG.

You're confusing reality and video games. In real life I would choose complete victory in a video game I might choose differently. I sacrificed my first Warden in DAO because it was the correct choice for that character. I've had other wardens who subsequently survived but I still consider my Ultimate Sacrifice Warden my canon because she was my favorite character and I really loved her noble sacrifice. So no, there is no WRONG ending. It all depends on the character and their choices.

I'm not, actually. There IS a WRONG ending - if there exist two possibilities, one ending where you get everything you ever dreamed of, and one ending where you don't, the first ending is inherently the RIGHT ending. You are being punished for choosing anything other than that ending. That is why the ending of ME2 is the worst part of ME2 - even though ME2 is one of my favorite games of all time, the Suicide Mission is one giant failure of a mission, simply because it's SO easy to not have anyone die.

It is, in fact, harder to actually get people to die than it is to have everyone survive. There are guides out there on how to get specific people to die, because it's so easy to have everyone live otherwise. Picking an ending where people die is the WRONG ending to ME2 simply because the ending where everyone lives is so easily attainable.

[Father_Jerusalem]

iakus wrote...

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

I'm honestly curious here, but say someone walks up to you and gives you two options:

Option A: A million dollars, tax free.
Option B: A kick to the mean bean machine.

How many people are going to pick option B?

Putting in an uber happy ending makes getting any ending OTHER than that one simply WRONG.

If you want a happy ending, then the question is, what are you willing to give up to get it? And don't come back with "But Thessia and Mordin and and and" because those losses are already in the game itself - they are part of the losses you suffer to get ANY ending. The happier the ending you want, the more you have to give up to get it. So... who's gotta die so you can have little blue babies?

You're going to have to define "uber happy ending" here as A) that's going to mean different things to different people. And   Some would probably say that an uberhappy ending was impossible since the opening sequence.

Uberhappy to me = Shepard lives, reunites with the entire crew, wedding, babies, everyone's all happy, Shep becomes president of the universe, etc etc etc. An ending where Shep dies, but you see the entire crew still survive and find out what happened to them is not, to me, "uberhappy", but simply part of being bittersweet - and something I hope we get in the EC.