329 réponses à ce sujet

[Father_Jerusalem]

kbct wrote...

Han Shot First wrote...

It sold millions of copies before anyone knew anything about the endings. I preordered my copy, because I obviously hadn't gotten to the ending yet.

And it has already been proven that those who like the ending are a vocal minoriity. From polls to reviews on metacritic and amazon, to the BSN to the comment section on just about any ME3 related video on youtube, the response to the endings has been overwhelmingly negative.

Exactly.

There is zero evidence that the majority LIKED the ending. There is plenty of evidence that the majority DID NOT LIKE the ending.

No. There is plenty of evidence that the majority ARE NOT PASSIONATE ENOUGH TO GO OUT AND VOTE ON SELF-SELECTING POLLS SET UP BY PEOPLE WHO HATED THE ENDING. The vast majority, the VAST majority, is sitting at work right now, doing their job, and not concerning themselves with what a bunch of people on the internet are saying. 

I'm sorry, you're just flat out wrong. 

[kbct]

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

Prove "the majority". Do it. Come on. Over 1.35 million copies sold. Show me 675,001 unique complaints about the endings. I'll wait right here. Come on. DO IT. I'm waiting. 

In politics and economics, you don't survey every single man, woman, and child. You create polls and extrapolate information about the population. Even if the BSN poll is self-selecting, it still has predictive power when it has a 62K sample size.

[Tazzmission]

kbct wrote...

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

Prove "the majority". Do it. Come on. Over 1.35 million copies sold. Show me 675,001 unique complaints about the endings. I'll wait right here. Come on. DO IT. I'm waiting. 

In politics and economics, you don't survey every single man, woman, and child. You create polls and extrapolate information about the population. Even if the BSN poll is self-selecting, it still has predictive power when it has a 62K sample size.

this isnt politics or economics  though

quit making excuses to not provide facts dude

Modifié par Tazzmission, 20 mars 2012 - 08:00 .

[Konfined]

Navasha wrote...

Sorry, but the "retake" movement doomed itself just like every movement that can't manage to keep their response in reasonable and appropriate boundaries.

The FTC and BBB childishness pretty much confirmed that the movement doesn't have that many rational and reasonable adults.

The BBB issue is a complete non-starter because a.) BioWare's rating with the BBB is over a year old, b.) irrelevant because they aren't accredited and c.) an "F" because BioWare doesn't care enough about the BBB to respond to their inquiries, and were thus automatically given the rating.  

I honestly don't understand why people keep bringing that up as ammo, especially without having even done a cursory amount of investigating themselves; where they would find the information I just provided themselves.  Amateur journalism all around.

[Overule]

Anyone who claims we're the minority should visit the "respect bioware's artistic integrity!" page. Less than 1% the size of Retake.

Modifié par Overule, 20 mars 2012 - 08:01 .

[MikoDoll]

Why are the people who paid nearly 100 dollars for content they weren't provided overzealous. I'm sick of companies thinking that because they make games they are entitled not to deliver on stuff they continuously emphasize will be in the game. Whenever someone wants to call them out on it "Lol its just a game." Yea well they're getting a little too expensive to simply ignore when major problems like this happen.

[Father_Jerusalem]

Han Shot First wrote...

Mirajin wrote...

The PLC wrote...

You are a vocal minority..

QFT

Makes me wonder....if ME3s ending 100% amazing and everything we hoped for, what would the 'vocal minority' be b*tching about instead?

....a vocal minority that is voicing a complaint most people who played Mass Effect 3 had: that the ending sucked.

Go ahead. I'm still waiting. 675,001 unique complaints. Come on. Hell, I'm even giving you a break, going with the last numbers I had heard 1.35 million, not the 1.85 million reported right here in this thread. 

Prove it. I'll wait.

[kbct]

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

kbct wrote...

Exactly.

There is zero evidence that the majority LIKED the ending. There is plenty of evidence that the majority DID NOT LIKE the ending.

No. There is plenty of evidence that the majority ARE NOT PASSIONATE ENOUGH TO GO OUT AND VOTE ON SELF-SELECTING POLLS SET UP BY PEOPLE WHO HATED THE ENDING. The vast majority, the VAST majority, is sitting at work right now, doing their job, and not concerning themselves with what a bunch of people on the internet are saying. 

I'm sorry, you're just flat out wrong. 

You are simply speculating. You're the one with no evidence.

People that like things voice their opinion too.

The Hunger Games has over 5000 reviews on Amazon and it received 4.5 out of 5 stars. Lots of satisfied people voiced their opinion.

ME1 and ME2 each received 4.5 out of 5 stars. Same thing.

Why did ME3 only receive 2 out of 5 stars?

BSN should tend to like BioWare products. That is why we are here. The poll should not have only 2% like the ending as-is. There should be plenty of BSN members that liked it. There aren't.

Modifié par kbct, 20 mars 2012 - 08:02 .

[Tazzmission]

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

kbct wrote...

Han Shot First wrote...

It sold millions of copies before anyone knew anything about the endings. I preordered my copy, because I obviously hadn't gotten to the ending yet.

And it has already been proven that those who like the ending are a vocal minoriity. From polls to reviews on metacritic and amazon, to the BSN to the comment section on just about any ME3 related video on youtube, the response to the endings has been overwhelmingly negative.

Exactly.

There is zero evidence that the majority LIKED the ending. There is plenty of evidence that the majority DID NOT LIKE the ending.

No. There is plenty of evidence that the majority ARE NOT PASSIONATE ENOUGH TO GO OUT AND VOTE ON SELF-SELECTING POLLS SET UP BY PEOPLE WHO HATED THE ENDING. The vast majority, the VAST majority, is sitting at work right now, doing their job, and not concerning themselves with what a bunch of people on the internet are saying. 

I'm sorry, you're just flat out wrong. 

quoted for truth


i just love how the take back movement thinks they speak for me knowing where i stand on the situation

i guess if you arent with them there against you sadly 

[foo man chew]

I dont know why people are upset most people think gamers are raging nerds its been a stigma thats went on as long as gaming.

[hawat333]

The endings are different.
I consider the fate of the planet I'm living on an important difference.
Yeah, there are three main leads for the endings, the other differences are minor, but they are there.
When I buy a thing for transportation that has two gears, and got a bicyle instead of a motorbike, I can't really say that I didn't get what I payed for.

[Fiery Phoenix]

Texansamurai wrote...

Vocal Minority? Yea right... I bet this guy hasn't even played ME 3

More like because the term 'vocal minority' is used so damn loosely these days.

[GME_ThorianCreeper]

Han Shot First wrote...

The PLC wrote...

You are a vocal minority..

That represents the majority

Lol you really think that? Give me proof.  And the completely bias poll being passed around the BSN doesn't count because it is biased.

[kbct]

Tazzmission wrote...

kbct wrote...

In politics and economics, you don't survey every single man, woman, and child. You create polls and extrapolate information about the population. Even if the BSN poll is self-selecting, it still has predictive power when it has a 62K sample size.

this isnt politics or economics  though

quit making excuses to not provide facts dude

Provide some evidence to support the majority liked the ending then.

[Father_Jerusalem]

kbct wrote...

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

Prove "the majority". Do it. Come on. Over 1.35 million copies sold. Show me 675,001 unique complaints about the endings. I'll wait right here. Come on. DO IT. I'm waiting. 

In politics and economics, you don't survey every single man, woman, and child. You create polls and extrapolate information about the population. Even if the BSN poll is self-selecting, it still has predictive power when it has a 62K sample size.

This isn't politics. This isn't economics. This is a self-selecting sample of VIDEO. GAME. NERDS. Who are up in arms enough to vote, and post. The situations are not even remotely comparable. 

If you went to a My Little Pony website and put a poll up asking people whether they like My Little Pony, or they like Mass Effect, the vast majority would say they prefer My Little Pony. It doesn't mean the population writ large prefers My Little Pony, but that your sample is automatically biased to prefer My Little Pony.

[Heather Cline]

Yeah someone linked a youtube video about game reviewers getting paid off by publishers and game dev companies to give positive reviews because if they don't then said publisher and dev companies won't have them review their games in the future. Before the buying off of reviews of video games back during the old days of video gaming with the PSOne, PS2 original Xbox and even older systems, game magazines and game reviewers gave honest opinions about the game they reviewed. They weren't afraid of not getting a game company to allow them to review their games. Now days it's just a load of crap.

This guy from Yahoo is just another paid EA/Bioware monkey trying to discredit the gamer community so that EA/Bioware can put a PR spin on this.

[terdferguson123]

foo man chew wrote...

I dont know why people are upset most people think gamers are raging nerds its been a stigma thats went on as long as gaming.

Well, one look at the Bioware forums for the past 2 weeks proves why people feel that way about gamers. It's absolutely impossible to have a discussion about the ending around here, the second you post anything about trying to discuss it in any way whatsoever, it immediately gets flooded with a bunch of incoherent "YOAU LIKED THE ENDINGS!?!? LOL!! YOU MUST NOT BE A TRUE FAN!!" crap.

[UntalkativeBunny]

Extremists.

Modifié par UntalkativeBunny, 20 mars 2012 - 08:15 .

[Tazzmission]

MikoDoll wrote...

Why are the people who paid nearly 100 dollars for content they weren't provided overzealous. I'm sick of companies thinking that because they make games they are entitled not to deliver on stuff they continuously emphasize will be in the game. Whenever someone wants to call them out on it "Lol its just a game." Yea well they're getting a little too expensive to simply ignore when major problems like this happen.

WELCOME TO THE GAMING INDUSTRY DUDE


if you think bioware and ea are the only people who do what they do go do some reaserch on capcom seeing as theres a ton of controversy around the dlc for street fighter x tekken

all we hear is this constant complaining from the movement and yet let me ask you this


if you were bioware what would you do? would you tell ea no i wont make cuts or no i wont add mp or no i wont push the game back from holiday 2011 till march 2012?

if you think you would guess what ea would say see ya buddy because they are the ones who back you with money to make games

so dont act like you wouldnt do the same either

[terdferguson123]

Fiery Phoenix wrote...

Texansamurai wrote...

Vocal Minority? Yea right... I bet this guy hasn't even played ME 3

More like because the term 'vocal minority' is used so damn loosely these days.

That's simply because it is much easier to be vocal as a minority these days. The internet gives power to those who are loud, and obnoxious.

Modifié par terdferguson123, 20 mars 2012 - 08:07 .

[kbct]

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

If you went to a My Little Pony website and put a poll up asking people whether they like My Little Pony, or they like Mass Effect, the vast majority would say they prefer My Little Pony. It doesn't mean the population writ large prefers My Little Pony, but that your sample is automatically biased to prefer My Little Pony.

BSN should tend to like BioWare products. That is why we are here. The poll should not have only 2% like the ending as-is. There should be plenty of BSN members that liked it. There aren't.

[Han Shot First]

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

Han Shot First wrote...

The PLC wrote...

You are a vocal minority..

That represents the majority.

You guys do realise you ARE a vocal minority right? Large enough a minority to give pause, but still a minority.

...a vocal minority that represents a viewpoint held by the majority: that Mass Effect 3's endings sucked.

Prove "the majority". Do it. Come on. Over 1.35 million copies sold. Show me 675,001 unique complaints about the endings. I'll wait right here. Come on. DO IT. I'm waiting.

How many of those 1.35 million copies were preordered, like mine? How many were purchased within the first week of release, when not too many people had gotten word on how bad the endings were? Since I was active on the BSN I had an inkling that the endings weren't being well recieved before I actually got to them, but I assumed it was fan overreaction. I had been one of Bioware's biggest defenders on this board until I actually got to those endings.

The 1.35 million copies sold is a statistic with no relevance to how well (or badly) the ending went over with fans. Most of those sales were on the strength of the previous two games and Bioware's reputation for churning out excellent RPGs.

For evidence that those who hated the ending are in the majority, you need only rely on the internet. From polls on this site, to threads discussing the ending, to metacritic and amazon reviews, to the comment section on ME3 youtube vids, the reaction to the endings has been overwhelmingly negative. There was a poll posted here about the ending that had something like 51,000 votes, which is an absolutely massive sample size, and 90% of those who voted chose the option that said they didn't like the endings. All the evidence points to the endings being hated by most of the fanbase, and anyone who tries to pretend otherwise has their head buried in the sand.

Contrast the reaction to ME3's ending with the reaction to Mass Effect 2 in the first two weeks after release. While there were some who hated the gameplay chages and the direction the story took, there was never any doubt that they were in the minority. Threads bashing ME2 were heavily outnumbered by those praising it, and the metacritic and amazon reviews were mostly positive

Modifié par Han Shot First, 20 mars 2012 - 08:08 .

[Father_Jerusalem]

kbct wrote...

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

kbct wrote...

Exactly.

There is zero evidence that the majority LIKED the ending. There is plenty of evidence that the majority DID NOT LIKE the ending.

No. There is plenty of evidence that the majority ARE NOT PASSIONATE ENOUGH TO GO OUT AND VOTE ON SELF-SELECTING POLLS SET UP BY PEOPLE WHO HATED THE ENDING. The vast majority, the VAST majority, is sitting at work right now, doing their job, and not concerning themselves with what a bunch of people on the internet are saying. 

I'm sorry, you're just flat out wrong. 

You are simply speculating. You're the one with no evidence.

People that like things voice their opinion too.

The Hunger Games has over 5000 reviews on Amazon and it received 4.5 out of 5 stars. Lots of satisfied people voiced their opinion.

ME1 and ME2 each received 4.5 out of 5 stars. Same thing.

Why did ME3 only receive 2 out of 5 stars?

BSN should tend to like BioWare products. That is why we are here. The poll should not have only 2% like the ending as-is. There should be plenty of BSN members that liked it. There aren't.

Because why should I vote? The answers have already clearly been made, the lines are already drawn, why should I waste my time in a meaningless poll? To bump it up from 2% to 2.1%, only to have a bunch of new accounts come in and flood it so it goes back down below 2%? Come on. I have better things to do with my time. 

And I don't NEED evidence. I'm not the one making a claim. Nowhere - NOWHERE - have I said that the majority is the people who liked the evidence. NOWHERE. YOU guys are the ones making the claim that you're a "vast majority", it's on YOU to provide evidence.

Oh, and since you like statistics, I'm going to share with you a term I learned in my very first Sociology class when we were talking about polls and samples: Confirmation. Bias. 

[MikoDoll]

Guys stop complaining about what they're saying (which is nothing new and can probably be discussed on other topics) and recognize the big picture. People who have obvious reason to suspect bias to Bioware are finally trying to help Bioware with damage control. Obviously the fanbase is doing something right if they're trying to diffuse demands for change in such a manner.