329 réponses à ce sujet

[Tazzmission]

kbct wrote...

Tazzmission wrote...

kbct wrote...

In politics and economics, you don't survey every single man, woman, and child. You create polls and extrapolate information about the population. Even if the BSN poll is self-selecting, it still has predictive power when it has a 62K sample size.

this isnt politics or economics  though

quit making excuses to not provide facts dude

Provide some evidence to support the majority liked the ending then.

no you first

you opened this door up and made the alligation so if your going to start talking you better back it up before you demand others do and dont use the bsn as the ultimate ** proof** for your argument because with the way people are i cant take them serious at all.

ps. i also love how you think the bsn is the only legit source regarding fans

you may want to check other sites and polls but i guess since conspiracy likes to be thrown alot amongst the movement those sites cant be trusted right?

Modifié par Tazzmission, 20 mars 2012 - 08:11 .

[Father_Jerusalem]

kbct wrote...

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

If you went to a My Little Pony website and put a poll up asking people whether they like My Little Pony, or they like Mass Effect, the vast majority would say they prefer My Little Pony. It doesn't mean the population writ large prefers My Little Pony, but that your sample is automatically biased to prefer My Little Pony.

BSN should tend to like BioWare products. That is why we are here. The poll should not have only 2% like the ending as-is. There should be plenty of BSN members that liked it. There aren't.

Except the vast majority of BSN are a bunch of people who just like to hate on things that are popular. Come on dude, you know this. It's been apparant for YEARS that BSN is a fking hellhole full of people who hate everything.

[MikoDoll]

Right because the BSN/internet fandom has outcry this loud every year..

Modifié par MikoDoll, 20 mars 2012 - 08:10 .

[charmingcharlie]

You know what I find funny about all this. If all these polls showed that 90% liked the ending you would find those that are currently screaming the polls aren't accurate would be going "see see you are in a minority 90% liked the ending so shut up".

However because ALL polls are showing the vast majority hate the ending they have to find some way to try and make it that the polls are somehow "inaccurate".

[Han Shot First]

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

kbct wrote...

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

If you went to a My Little Pony website and put a poll up asking people whether they like My Little Pony, or they like Mass Effect, the vast majority would say they prefer My Little Pony. It doesn't mean the population writ large prefers My Little Pony, but that your sample is automatically biased to prefer My Little Pony.

BSN should tend to like BioWare products. That is why we are here. The poll should not have only 2% like the ending as-is. There should be plenty of BSN members that liked it. There aren't.

Except the vast majority of BSN are a bunch of people who just like to hate on things that are popular. Come on dude, you know this. It's been apparant for YEARS that BSN is a fking hellhole full of people who hate everything.

The endings are hated for no other reason than the fact that they suck.

Besides, if I thought it was cool to be contrarian I'd be arguing that they were awesome.

You know what I find funny about all this. If all these polls showed that 90% liked the ending you would find those that are currently screaming the polls aren't accurate would be going "see see you are in a minority 90% liked the ending so shut up"

They are in denial.

I wonder how they tolerate all that sand in their ears.

Modifié par Han Shot First, 20 mars 2012 - 08:11 .

[Father_Jerusalem]

Han Shot First wrote...

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

Han Shot First wrote...

The PLC wrote...

You are a vocal minority..

That represents the majority.

You guys do realise you ARE a vocal minority right? Large enough a minority to give pause, but still a minority.

...a vocal minority that represents a viewpoint held by the majority: that Mass Effect 3's endings sucked.

Prove "the majority". Do it. Come on. Over 1.35 million copies sold. Show me 675,001 unique complaints about the endings. I'll wait right here. Come on. DO IT. I'm waiting.

How many of those 1.35 million copies were preordered, like mine? How many were purchased within the first week of release, when not too many people had gotten word on how bad the endings were? Since I was active on the BSN I had an inkling that the endings weren't being well recieved before I actually got to them, but I assumed it was fan overreaction. I had been one of Bioware's biggest defenders on this board until I actually got to those endings.

The 1.35 million copies sold is a statistic with no relevance to how well (or badly) the ending went over with fans. Most of those sales were on the strength of the previous two games and Bioware's reputation for churning out excellent RPGs.

For evidence that those who hated the ending are in the majority, you need only rely on the internet. From polls on this site, to threads discussing the ending, to metacritic and amazon reviews, to the comment section on ME3 youtube vids, the reaction to the endings has been overwhelmingly negative. There was a poll posted here about the ending that had something like 51,000 votes, which is an absolutely massive sample size, and 90% of those who voted chose the option that said they didn't like the endings. All the evidence points to the endings being hated by most of the fanbase, and anyone who tries to pretend otherwise has their head buried in the sand.

Contrast the reaction to ME3's ending with the reaction to Mass Effect 2 in the first two weeks after release. While there were some who hated the gameplay chages and the direction the story took, there was never any doubt that they were in the minority. Threads bashing ME2 were heavily outnumbered by those praising it, and the metacritic and amazon reviews were mostly positive

I don't care how many were preordered. I don't care. 675,001 unique complaints. I'm waiting. Come on. 

Your polls are meaningless. Your reviews are meaningless. The passionate will continue to review-bomb in order to try and show that their views are superior. Those that don't care won't do anything. That's the way the world works. 

675,001 unique complaints. Until you have those, you are still the "vocal minority".

[Faust1979]

Am I the only person that remembers the out cry from the first Mass Effect when there were people complaining it was just a dumbed down RPG there were lots of troll threads about it

[kbct]

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

Because why should I vote? The answers have already clearly been made, the lines are already drawn, why should I waste my time in a meaningless poll? To bump it up from 2% to 2.1%, only to have a bunch of new accounts come in and flood it so it goes back down below 2%? Come on. I have better things to do with my time. 

And I don't NEED evidence. I'm not the one making a claim. Nowhere - NOWHERE - have I said that the majority is the people who liked the evidence. NOWHERE. YOU guys are the ones making the claim that you're a "vast majority", it's on YOU to provide evidence.

Oh, and since you like statistics, I'm going to share with you a term I learned in my very first Sociology class when we were talking about polls and samples: Confirmation. Bias. 

Yeah, you have very little say in the poll because 62K people already voted in the poll. 6x larger than any other BSN poll.

You need evidence you say only a minority of the customers didn't like the ending. Because everything on the internet says customers don't like the ending.

Here's a couple words for you: predictive power. The poll predicts this mess, the news articles, and low user reviews.

[Han Shot First]

Sorry Father, but you are part of a minority. And in denial.

All the evidence points towards ME3's ending because nearly universally hated. If they are popular, as you contend, put forward some proof. You won't find any.

[Tazzmission]

charmingcharlie wrote...

You know what I find funny about all this. If all these polls showed that 90% liked the ending you would find those that are currently screaming the polls aren't accurate would be going "see see you are in a minority 90% liked the ending so shut up".

However because ALL polls are showing the vast majority hate the ending they have to find some way to try and make it that the polls are somehow "inaccurate".

this!this!this!


i have said it before the people on this board who are with the movement make it sound like ther eoption is the only wone that matters

imo they think like a dictator because if you dont agree with them there gona bash, attack,flame you

i mean god forbid if i have a different option on something right?

[Father_Jerusalem]

charmingcharlie wrote...

You know what I find funny about all this. If all these polls showed that 90% liked the ending you would find those that are currently screaming the polls aren't accurate would be going "see see you are in a minority 90% liked the ending so shut up".

However because ALL polls are showing the vast majority hate the ending they have to find some way to try and make it that the polls are somehow "inaccurate".

No, if the polls showed that 90% of people liked the ending, I'd say the same thing I'm saying now. They're meaningless. Utterly meaningless. And putting stock in the fact that only the most passionate people will vote and respond is insanity.

The. Vast. Majority. Of. Players. Are. Living. Their. Lives. Without. The. Knowledge. That. BSN. Even. Exists.

Full. Stop.

[kbct]

Han Shot First wrote...

You know what I find funny about all this. If all these polls showed that 90% liked the ending you would find those that are currently screaming the polls aren't accurate would be going "see see you are in a minority 90% liked the ending so shut up"

They are in denial.

I wonder how they tolerate all that sand in their ears.

Agreed. Denial.

[Tazzmission]

kbct wrote...

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

Because why should I vote? The answers have already clearly been made, the lines are already drawn, why should I waste my time in a meaningless poll? To bump it up from 2% to 2.1%, only to have a bunch of new accounts come in and flood it so it goes back down below 2%? Come on. I have better things to do with my time. 

And I don't NEED evidence. I'm not the one making a claim. Nowhere - NOWHERE - have I said that the majority is the people who liked the evidence. NOWHERE. YOU guys are the ones making the claim that you're a "vast majority", it's on YOU to provide evidence.

Oh, and since you like statistics, I'm going to share with you a term I learned in my very first Sociology class when we were talking about polls and samples: Confirmation. Bias. 

Yeah, you have very little say in the poll because 62K people already voted in the poll. 6x larger than any other BSN poll.

You need evidence you say only a minority of the customers didn't like the ending. Because everything on the internet says customers don't like the ending.

Here's a couple words for you: predictive power. The poll predicts this mess, the news articles, and low user reviews.

im still waiting on your evidence that isnt bsn related.

whats wrong cant prove me or a few others wrong?

[Chaoswind]

Faust1979 wrote...

I have to say I agree with this article we don't go around crying and forcing movie studios to try and fix their movies when they make a bad one. Where were these people when hollywood pumps out something like the Tim Burton Planet of the Apes or the awful Green Lantern? No they are just riled up over a games ending because one game they didn't like and now suddenly Bioware is evil it's stupid

[Refutal] Movie Critics actually do their job and boom bad movies to protect the consumer, the same doesn't happen in video games.

Mass Effect 3 has quite too many perfect scores and we all know it doesn't deserve them.

as a stand alone game it would get a 8.5 or a 9, is a good game, but far from perfect; however, as a sequel that promised to give us closure and be the end of a epic journey it gets a 5.5

[kbct]

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

Except the vast majority of BSN are a bunch of people who just like to hate on things that are popular. Come on dude, you know this. It's been apparant for YEARS that BSN is a fking hellhole full of people who hate everything.

The didn't hate on ME1 or ME2. And the reviews reflected that.

They hated on DA2. And the sales reflected that.

[kbct]

Tazzmission wrote...

kbct wrote...

Yeah, you have very little say in the poll because 62K people already voted in the poll. 6x larger than any other BSN poll.

You need evidence you say only a minority of the customers didn't like the ending. Because everything on the internet says customers don't like the ending.

Here's a couple words for you: predictive power. The poll predicts this mess, the news articles, and low user reviews.

im still waiting on your evidence that isnt bsn related.

whats wrong cant prove me or a few others wrong?

I can't teach you statistics in a couple posts.

[Tazzmission]

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

charmingcharlie wrote...

You know what I find funny about all this. If all these polls showed that 90% liked the ending you would find those that are currently screaming the polls aren't accurate would be going "see see you are in a minority 90% liked the ending so shut up".

However because ALL polls are showing the vast majority hate the ending they have to find some way to try and make it that the polls are somehow "inaccurate".

No, if the polls showed that 90% of people liked the ending, I'd say the same thing I'm saying now. They're meaningless. Utterly meaningless. And putting stock in the fact that only the most passionate people will vote and respond is insanity.

The. Vast. Majority. Of. Players. Are. Living. Their. Lives. Without. The. Knowledge. That. BSN. Even. Exists.

Full. Stop.

well to be fair the movement would make some claim that the site wa spaid off by ea or bioware

its like they seriously believe everything is a conspiracy and out to get them

ps. i posted a link to how the movment has been over at ign and there getting a big laugh out of it in the forums there.

[Han Shot First]

Faust1979 wrote...

Am I the only person that remembers the out cry from the first Mass Effect when there were people complaining it was just a dumbed down RPG there were lots of troll threads about it

I've been here since the beginning, and was active on the old Bioware boards before that. I remember well the complaint threads about ME2 being 'dumbed down.' The difference is that those threads were always outnumbered by those going on about how amazing the Suicide Mission was, and how the gameplay was an improvement over Mass Effect 1. The reviews on metacritic and amazon were also mostly positive, unlike now.

That was nothing compared to what is going on now.

[Father_Jerusalem]

kbct wrote...

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

Because why should I vote? The answers have already clearly been made, the lines are already drawn, why should I waste my time in a meaningless poll? To bump it up from 2% to 2.1%, only to have a bunch of new accounts come in and flood it so it goes back down below 2%? Come on. I have better things to do with my time. 

And I don't NEED evidence. I'm not the one making a claim. Nowhere - NOWHERE - have I said that the majority is the people who liked the evidence. NOWHERE. YOU guys are the ones making the claim that you're a "vast majority", it's on YOU to provide evidence.

Oh, and since you like statistics, I'm going to share with you a term I learned in my very first Sociology class when we were talking about polls and samples: Confirmation. Bias. 

Yeah, you have very little say in the poll because 62K people already voted in the poll. 6x larger than any other BSN poll.

You need evidence you say only a minority of the customers didn't like the ending. Because everything on the internet says customers don't like the ending.

Here's a couple words for you: predictive power. The poll predicts this mess, the news articles, and low user reviews.

6x larger than any other BSN poll and that doesn't send up warning flags to you? REALLY? That doesn't make you wonder if people are flooding the poll in order to try and make their views seem even bigger? REALLY? Than ANY other poll on BSN? I guess if I was touting that poll to back my position, I wouldn't want to think too much about it either.

Here's a few more words for you: If you went to a Superman fansite and asked "Who would win, Superman or.. what's his face from Dragonball Z" the vast majority would say Superman. If you went to a Dragonball Z fansite and asked the same question, the results would be flipped. Why? BECAUSE OF CONFIRMATION BIAS. You're asking the most pissed off fans to vote and say they're pissed off and you're surprised when the results say "we're pissed off"? REALLY?

[Tazzmission]

kbct wrote...

Tazzmission wrote...

kbct wrote...

Yeah, you have very little say in the poll because 62K people already voted in the poll. 6x larger than any other BSN poll.

You need evidence you say only a minority of the customers didn't like the ending. Because everything on the internet says customers don't like the ending.

Here's a couple words for you: predictive power. The poll predicts this mess, the news articles, and low user reviews.

im still waiting on your evidence that isnt bsn related.

whats wrong cant prove me or a few others wrong?

I can't teach you statistics in a couple posts.

so than you have nothing?

im not asking for statistics im simply asking you provide a link that specificly states every gamer hates the ending
because the last i checked i liked the endings

so i guess you speak for me right? you just happen to not ask me if you can or cant?

[Han Shot First]

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

charmingcharlie wrote...

You know what I find funny about all this. If all these polls showed that 90% liked the ending you would find those that are currently screaming the polls aren't accurate would be going "see see you are in a minority 90% liked the ending so shut up".

However because ALL polls are showing the vast majority hate the ending they have to find some way to try and make it that the polls are somehow "inaccurate".

No, if the polls showed that 90% of people liked the ending, I'd say the same thing I'm saying now. They're meaningless. Utterly meaningless. And putting stock in the fact that only the most passionate people will vote and respond is insanity.

The. Vast. Majority. Of. Players. Are. Living. Their. Lives. Without. The. Knowledge. That. BSN. Even. Exists.

Full. Stop.

Except it isn't just the BSN.

Any place where the endings are being discussed, the reaction is overwhelmingly negative. User reviews on sites like metacritic and amazon are also overwhelmingly negative. Compare that ME1 or ME2, where the discussion and reviews was mostly positive.

You are grasping at straws.

[charmingcharlie]

Father_Jerusalem wrote... The. Vast. Majority. Of. Players. Are. Living. Their. Lives. Without. The. Knowledge. That. BSN. Even. Exists.

Full. Stop.

I am not just talking about BSN I am talking about EVERYWHERE that discusses games.  No matter where you go, what forum you go to or what site you visit the reception towards the endings has been overwhelmingly NEGATIVE from users.  

[kbct]

Tazzmission wrote...

you opened this door up and made the alligation so if your going to start talking you better back it up before you demand others do and dont use the bsn as the ultimate ** proof** for your argument because with the way people are i cant take them serious at all.

I didn't start it:

The PLC wrote...

You are a vocal minority..

[MikoDoll]

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

Han Shot First wrote...

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

Han Shot First wrote...

The PLC wrote...

You are a vocal minority..

That represents the majority.

You guys do realise you ARE a vocal minority right? Large enough a minority to give pause, but still a minority.

...a vocal minority that represents a viewpoint held by the majority: that Mass Effect 3's endings sucked.

Prove "the majority". Do it. Come on. Over 1.35 million copies sold. Show me 675,001 unique complaints about the endings. I'll wait right here. Come on. DO IT. I'm waiting.

How many of those 1.35 million copies were preordered, like mine? How many were purchased within the first week of release, when not too many people had gotten word on how bad the endings were? Since I was active on the BSN I had an inkling that the endings weren't being well recieved before I actually got to them, but I assumed it was fan overreaction. I had been one of Bioware's biggest defenders on this board until I actually got to those endings.

The 1.35 million copies sold is a statistic with no relevance to how well (or badly) the ending went over with fans. Most of those sales were on the strength of the previous two games and Bioware's reputation for churning out excellent RPGs.

For evidence that those who hated the ending are in the majority, you need only rely on the internet. From polls on this site, to threads discussing the ending, to metacritic and amazon reviews, to the comment section on ME3 youtube vids, the reaction to the endings has been overwhelmingly negative. There was a poll posted here about the ending that had something like 51,000 votes, which is an absolutely massive sample size, and 90% of those who voted chose the option that said they didn't like the endings. All the evidence points to the endings being hated by most of the fanbase, and anyone who tries to pretend otherwise has their head buried in the sand.

Contrast the reaction to ME3's ending with the reaction to Mass Effect 2 in the first two weeks after release. While there were some who hated the gameplay chages and the direction the story took, there was never any doubt that they were in the minority. Threads bashing ME2 were heavily outnumbered by those praising it, and the metacritic and amazon reviews were mostly positive

I don't care how many were preordered. I don't care. 675,001 unique complaints. I'm waiting. Come on. 

Your polls are meaningless. Your reviews are meaningless. The passionate will continue to review-bomb in order to try and show that their views are superior. Those that don't care won't do anything. That's the way the world works. 

675,001 unique complaints. Until you have those, you are still the "vocal minority".

My entire problem with your assesement is that because the majority is silent (and it almost always is) that means they like what's going on. You also IIRC say you as someone in the 2% have better ways of spending your time implying that maaany people who like the game are out there and outnumber the minority. They just don't care about voting. Have you not considered that people who hated the ending felt the same way and decided that because the poll clearly reflects their opinion, there's no need to vote? There are many people who don't like the ending but don't get active about it and will simply stop buying Bioware games. I for one have stopped being active in discussing Dragon Age 2 and simply will probably not buy anymore DA games after DA2.  If I buy any DA games it will be with great reluctance.

[kofelover]

Faust1979 wrote...

I have to say I agree with this article we don't go around crying and forcing movie studios to try and fix their movies when they make a bad one. Where were these people when hollywood pumps out something like the Tim Burton Planet of the Apes or the awful Green Lantern? No they are just riled up over a games ending because one game they didn't like and now suddenly Bioware is evil it's stupid

Movies consume a few hours of your life for about $15 USD in my area.  A trilogy of RPG games consumes, arguably, hundreds of hours and dollars (including all DLC). 

The analogy fails miserably.