329 réponses à ce sujet

[RocketManSR2]

avatar2396 wrote...

dont try this at home. there is the warning my legal team said i had to say

Now you tell me....

*Calls ambulance*

[Dragoonlordz]

UntalkativeBunny wrote...

Han Shot First wrote...

Where is your proof that all the reviewers on metacritic and amazon are the same people posting here?

Like I said, this whole proof nonsense is pointless. You can't provide viable proof and neither can I, the numbers, pulls, reviews, etc are flawed plain and simple

Actually I have seen people actually say on here they bombed the game on those sites, but I can't say all of them are from here because not all of them have admitted it. Sorry Han though, you do not speak for those who have not said anything (meaning the non vocal) everyone else. 

@Viyu = You are a vocal minority. Whether that vocal minority are expressing the feelings of more than those who are speaking up is debatable and very likely more people disliked the ending than liked it but as far as vocal goes you are the minority. There is no need to go attacking me for stating the reality of the situation but if you feel it someohow invalidates your stance to have the word minority with regard to the specific vocal element you can do so. I'll listen but won't agree.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 20 mars 2012 - 09:08 .

[Teacher50]

kofelover wrote...

Teacher50 wrote...

UntalkativeBunny wrote...

kbct wrote...

It will be interesting to see the sales numbers over the next ten weeks.

Pointless to look at the sales numbers because they'll drop regardless since nearly 2 million were sold, so before you use that as any type of proof. Show us the number of Mass Effect 3 returns (not trade-ins.) Trade-ins are inconclusive since a lot of people trade in games after they beat the game whether they like it or not.

Haha... Amazon is accepting returns because of deminished expectation. Full refunds.

I ordered from GameStop.  Wish I had ordered through Amazon now.  As it is, there is no replayability for me so I would like to return it.  Oh well.  I really did enjoy the game immensely up until .......

Yea... there is also some talk about origion refunds but have not seen anything conclusive. Perhaps gamers buying choices may be changed as a consequence too. Just a thought.

[UntalkativeBunny]

Teacher50 wrote...

Haha... Amazon is accepting returns because of deminished expectation. Full refunds.

Good for Amazon? Lol.

kbct wrote...

Are you kidding me? The sales numbers will be scrutinized by everyone. Have you seen the chart of DA1 and DA2 sales over the ten weeks after release date? No bueno.

I bet EA has the latest sales numbers right now and they are being used to help make the decision what to do about this mess.

Lots of anecdotal evidence of trade-ins and returns too. I have no idea how many though.

The sales don't tell any story that can be used to say the game was bad, or because of the ending the game was return or traded in. You'll have to interview every ME3 fan that bought the game. Good luck with that while I go play ME3 Multiplayer.

[RocketManSR2]

Nobody will admit to review bombing because you'd just be announcing to the world what a douche you are.

Nvm, I saw that some did admit it. At least they're honest...sort of.

Modifié par RocketManSR2, 20 mars 2012 - 09:04 .

[kofelover]

Teacher50 wrote...

kofelover wrote...

Teacher50 wrote...

UntalkativeBunny wrote...

kbct wrote...

It will be interesting to see the sales numbers over the next ten weeks.

Pointless to look at the sales numbers because they'll drop regardless since nearly 2 million were sold, so before you use that as any type of proof. Show us the number of Mass Effect 3 returns (not trade-ins.) Trade-ins are inconclusive since a lot of people trade in games after they beat the game whether they like it or not.

Will definitely move Amazon up the list on pre-orders from now on.  Don't really care for their Customer Service, so I quit using them, but for pre-orders I may have to re-activate my account. 

Haha... Amazon is accepting returns because of deminished expectation. Full refunds.

I ordered from GameStop.  Wish I had ordered through Amazon now.  As it is, there is no replayability for me so I would like to return it.  Oh well.  I really did enjoy the game immensely up until .......

Yea... there is also some talk about origion refunds but have not seen anything conclusive. Perhaps gamers buying choices may be changed as a consequence too. Just a thought.

[kbct]

UntalkativeBunny wrote...

Han Shot First wrote...

Where is your proof that all the reviewers on metacritic and amazon are the same people posting here?

Like I said, this whole proof nonsense is pointless. You can't provide viable proof and neither can I, the numbers, pulls, reviews, etc are flawed plain and simple

They may be flawed but you can't dismiss them. The BSN poll has predictive power.

The reviews may be flawed but you can't dismiss them either. They correlate nicely with sales.

[bleetman]

Honestly, whenever anyone brings up the terms 'majority' or 'minority' in an argument in support of their argument (which tends to boil down to 'I'm right and you're wrong, because I'm the majority and you're not'), I stop taking whatever they're saying seriously. If that's the best defense they can muster, they might as well just lay down their arms. They've already lost.

I'd say the amount of people who were... let's say disappointed by the ending is significant enough in of itself to warrant paying attention to our grievances, which is why I suspect we're (apparently) recieving it. Nitpicking over whether people who did/didn't like it are or aren't 'the majority' is just a waste of everyone's God damned time. Doubley so since, really? Neither can claim to be either. There's no definitive information to go on. The best we can do is guess.

tl:dr - give all this majority/minority bickering a rest already.

Modifié par bleetman, 20 mars 2012 - 09:10 .

[Father_Jerusalem]

Han Shot First wrote...

UntalkativeBunny wrote...

Han Shot First wrote...

Because it isn't just the BSN.

It is the majority of fans. Period.

It's not. You have no conclusive proof that it is the majority of fans other than polls which can be bombed, as well as reviews and negative discussions. Anyone of you can make an account of these sites and join in on the discussion. You are in denial. Lol.

Where is your proof that all the reviewers on metacritic and amazon are the same people posting here?

If that is the case, why didn't it also happen with Mass Effect 2? There was a vocal minority that did not like the gameplay changes or the direction of the story in that game compared to Mass Effect 1, yet most of the feedback on that game was positive. If, as you contend, it is only a small minority that hates ME3's ending, how is it that they are dominating discussion of the game and just about every review site? Why did that not happen with Mass Effect 2?

I'll tell you why: Because the majority of fans liked Mass Effect 2, while the majority of fans do not like the ending of Mass Effect 3.

After this post, I'm done with you. Because clearly I just can't... I can't get through to you. I just can't.

What you're engaging in, is argumentum ad populum - because it's popular, it's right. And even if you were arguing it correctly, which you aren't, it's still a complete and utter fallacy.

I've, and others have, given you the win here on BSN. Congratulations. BSN hates the endings by a vast majority. You get a trophy, or whatever. But that's not enough for you. Without any proof, you continue to yell that the majority of ALL owners hate the ending, and when asked for proof, you deflect with poll numbers that are meaningless.

I don't know why this stuff didn't happen with ME2 - I don't know that it DIDN'T happen with ME2. Maybe the movement is more organized this time, maybe the websites are more accessible, maybe it's sunny out so all the people that would defend ME3 are out walking their dogs. I. Don't. Know. 

All I want is proof, 675,001 unique complaints that people hate the endings and I'll concede my point with hat in hand. That's it. 

In the end, though, McDonald's has over a billion served. American Idol was the highest rated show on television. The Twilight movies have made hundreds of millions of dollars. It doesn't mean those things are good, just because they're popular. And it doesn't mean you're right, just because 60,000 people have voted in a poll on BSN.

[kbct]

UntalkativeBunny wrote...

kbct wrote...

Are you kidding me? The sales numbers will be scrutinized by everyone. Have you seen the chart of DA1 and DA2 sales over the ten weeks after release date? No bueno.

I bet EA has the latest sales numbers right now and they are being used to help make the decision what to do about this mess.

Lots of anecdotal evidence of trade-ins and returns too. I have no idea how many though.

The sales don't tell any story that can be used to say the game was bad, or because of the ending the game was return or traded in. You'll have to interview every ME3 fan that bought the game. Good luck with that while I go play ME3 Multiplayer.

Whatever. You're obviously not a decision maker in business.

Modifié par kbct, 20 mars 2012 - 09:08 .

[Father_Jerusalem]

bleetman wrote...

Honestly, whenever anyone brings up the terms 'majority' or 'minority' in an argument in support of their argument (which tends to boil down to 'I'm right and you're wrong, because I'm the majority and you're not'), I stop taking whatever they're saying seriously.

I'd say the amount of people who were... let's say disappointed by the ending is significant enough in of itself to warrant paying attention to our grievances, which is why I suspect we're (apparently) recieving it. Nitpicking over whether people who did/didn't like it are or aren't 'the majority' is just a waste of everyone's God damned time.

And when you can voice your concerns and get a response, that's GREAT. I'm all for that. It's when, as you said, you start screaming about numbers, or demanding, or berating people that disagree with you, that issues arise.

I'm ALWAYS in favor of dialogues between developers and the fanbase, because that way we can actually see how things are done, and give our input. THAT should be the ultimate goal of the #Retake movement, not "WE DEMAND ICE CREAM CAKE or whatever".

[BatmanPWNS]

I do not see Yahoo "bomb" anything.

[Dragoonlordz]

kbct wrote...

UntalkativeBunny wrote...

kbct wrote...

Are you kidding me? The sales numbers will be scrutinized by everyone. Have you seen the chart of DA1 and DA2 sales over the ten weeks after release date? No bueno.

I bet EA has the latest sales numbers right now and they are being used to help make the decision what to do about this mess.

Lots of anecdotal evidence of trade-ins and returns too. I have no idea how many though.

The sales don't tell any story that can be used to say the game was bad, or because of the ending the game was return or traded in. You'll have to interview every ME3 fan that bought the game. Good luck with that while I go play ME3 Multiplayer.

Whatever. You're obviously not a decision maker in business.

And you do not have the sales data to back up what impact you think it has. VGC only has first weeks sales listed so far, MVC (very respectable group) has stated the first weeks release was beyond what Bioware or EA could ever of imagined as far as success goes in sales. EA stated they shipped vast amounts. None of these things have shown what the second or third weeks sales were and you knowing some people locally who returned a title or a store locally that has many copies does not equal vast drop in sales for Bioware or EA.

A lot of the threats on here do not actuall come to be, it is easier to say on a website I cancelled my pre-order or returned a game when in reality it is more likely on their desk at and will remain there ready to play. The almost no impact of preorder cancelled threats during the Origin information showed how much huff and puff many have on here and why it became a meme.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 20 mars 2012 - 09:13 .

[Viyu]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

UntalkativeBunny wrote...

Han Shot First wrote...

Where is your proof that all the reviewers on metacritic and amazon are the same people posting here?

Like I said, this whole proof nonsense is pointless. You can't provide viable proof and neither can I, the numbers, pulls, reviews, etc are flawed plain and simple

Actually I have seen people actually say on here they bombed the game on those sites, but I can't say all of them are from here because not all of them have admitted it. Sorry Han though, you do not speak for those who have not said anything (meaning the non vocal) everyone else. 

@Viyu = You are a vocal minority. Whether that vocal minority are expressing the feelings of more than those who are speaking up is debatable and very likely more people disliked the ending than liked it but as far as vocal goes you are the minority. There is no need to go attacking me for stating the reality of the situation but if you feel it someohow invalidates your stance to have the word minority with regard to the specific vocal element you can do so. I'll listen but won't agree.

I don't recall attacking you. However I've tried relentlessly to get this thread back on topic. Which is, why is some guy that convieniently works for a place that advertises Bioware and EA get to be the authority on who is or ISN'T the majority or minority when he has nothing to prove it with? And why isn't anybody paying much attentiion to the fact Gamesutra advertises for publishers such as EA?

Modifié par Viyu, 20 mars 2012 - 09:15 .

[Teacher50]

kbct wrote...

UntalkativeBunny wrote...

kbct wrote...

Are you kidding me? The sales numbers will be scrutinized by everyone. Have you seen the chart of DA1 and DA2 sales over the ten weeks after release date? No bueno.

I bet EA has the latest sales numbers right now and they are being used to help make the decision what to do about this mess.

Lots of anecdotal evidence of trade-ins and returns too. I have no idea how many though.

The sales don't tell any story that can be used to say the game was bad, or because of the ending the game was return or traded in. You'll have to interview every ME3 fan that bought the game. Good luck with that while I go play ME3 Multiplayer.

Whatever. You're obviously not a decision maker in business.

One thing I learned running my business (consultant) is that the customer is King. Forget that and you'll quickly starve.

[Jade Elf]

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

There is plenty of evidence that the majority ARE NOT PASSIONATE ENOUGH TO GO OUT AND VOTE ON SELF-SELECTING POLLS SET UP BY PEOPLE WHO HATED THE ENDING.

Indeed. I certainly can't be bothered voting on any particular poll to state that I didn't actually mind the the endings* . I'd rather continue playing my third ME3 playthrough, with the occasional MP match if I feel like it.




*Sure the endings could've been better, like the addition of some extra info on what actually happens at the end, especially regarding crewmembers/LIs etc. But BioWare always have something up their sleeve anyway, so I'll wait and see what they come up with...

[Dragoonlordz]

Viyu wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

UntalkativeBunny wrote...

Han Shot First wrote...

Where is your proof that all the reviewers on metacritic and amazon are the same people posting here?

Like I said, this whole proof nonsense is pointless. You can't provide viable proof and neither can I, the numbers, pulls, reviews, etc are flawed plain and simple

Actually I have seen people actually say on here they bombed the game on those sites, but I can't say all of them are from here because not all of them have admitted it. Sorry Han though, you do not speak for those who have not said anything (meaning the non vocal) everyone else. 

@Viyu = You are a vocal minority. Whether that vocal minority are expressing the feelings of more than those who are speaking up is debatable and very likely more people disliked the ending than liked it but as far as vocal goes you are the minority. There is no need to go attacking me for stating the reality of the situation but if you feel it someohow invalidates your stance to have the word minority with regard to the specific vocal element you can do so. I'll listen but won't agree.

I don't recall attacking you. However I've tried relentlessly to get this thread back on topic. Which is, why is some guy that convieniently works for a place that advertises Bioware and EA get to be the authority on who is or ISN'T the majority or minority when he has nothing to prove it with? And why isn't anybody paying much attentiion to the fact Gamesutra advertises for publishers such as EA?

I was being pre-emptive with regard to my last sentence in case it crossed your mind as has done in other threads of this kind by other people saying the same thing. I did not say you was attacking me, I said if you were inclined to do so after my reply then the result of which I stated at the end.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 20 mars 2012 - 09:18 .

[Teacher50]

Viyu wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

UntalkativeBunny wrote...

Han Shot First wrote...

Where is your proof that all the reviewers on metacritic and amazon are the same people posting here?

Like I said, this whole proof nonsense is pointless. You can't provide viable proof and neither can I, the numbers, pulls, reviews, etc are flawed plain and simple

Actually I have seen people actually say on here they bombed the game on those sites, but I can't say all of them are from here because not all of them have admitted it. Sorry Han though, you do not speak for those who have not said anything (meaning the non vocal) everyone else. 

@Viyu = You are a vocal minority. Whether that vocal minority are expressing the feelings of more than those who are speaking up is debatable and very likely more people disliked the ending than liked it but as far as vocal goes you are the minority. There is no need to go attacking me for stating the reality of the situation but if you feel it someohow invalidates your stance to have the word minority with regard to the specific vocal element you can do so. I'll listen but won't agree.

I don't recall attacking you. However I've tried relentlessly to get this thread back on topic. Which is, why is some guy that convieniently works for a place that advertises Bioware and EA get to be the authority on who is or ISN'T the majority or minority when he has nothing to prove it with? And why isn't anybody paying much attentiion to the fact Gamesutra advertises for publishers such as EA?

Yea... simply look at the adds on a page and you know where their payout comes from.

[Viyu]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Viyu wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

UntalkativeBunny wrote...

Han Shot First wrote...

Where is your proof that all the reviewers on metacritic and amazon are the same people posting here?

Like I said, this whole proof nonsense is pointless. You can't provide viable proof and neither can I, the numbers, pulls, reviews, etc are flawed plain and simple

Actually I have seen people actually say on here they bombed the game on those sites, but I can't say all of them are from here because not all of them have admitted it. Sorry Han though, you do not speak for those who have not said anything (meaning the non vocal) everyone else. 

@Viyu = You are a vocal minority. Whether that vocal minority are expressing the feelings of more than those who are speaking up is debatable and very likely more people disliked the ending than liked it but as far as vocal goes you are the minority. There is no need to go attacking me for stating the reality of the situation but if you feel it someohow invalidates your stance to have the word minority with regard to the specific vocal element you can do so. I'll listen but won't agree.

I don't recall attacking you. However I've tried relentlessly to get this thread back on topic. Which is, why is some guy that convieniently works for a place that advertises Bioware and EA get to be the authority on who is or ISN'T the majority or minority when he has nothing to prove it with? And why isn't anybody paying much attentiion to the fact Gamesutra advertises for publishers such as EA?

I was being pre-emptive with regard to my last sentence in case it crossed your mind as has done in other threads of this kind by other people saying the same thing. I did not say you was attacking me, I said if you were inclined to do so after my reply then the result of which I stated at the end.

I think that people are getting a BIT too caught up with whose the majority or minority, rather than asking why the heck does this guy get to be the authority on the matter for either side.

Modifié par Viyu, 20 mars 2012 - 09:20 .

[Father_Jerusalem]

Viyu wrote...


I don't recall attacking you. However I've tried relentlessly to get this thread back on topic. Which is, why is some guy that convieniently works for a place that advertises Bioware and EA get to be the authority on who is or ISN'T the majority or minority when he has nothing to prove it with? And why isn't anybody paying much attentiion to the fact Gamesutra advertises for publishers such as EA?

Because it's not a conspiracy? I'm sorry, the reason Yahoo is saying you're not a majority is not because he's being paid by BioWare, it's because YOU'RE NOT A MAJORITY. In any objective measure.

If you want to start a complaint saying "Why is he saying we're not a majority on the BSN where poll results that were bombed by people who hated the endings show that we are a majority",  sure, fine, whatever. Go for it. Have fun.

But a majority, of all the people who bought the game, is something you clearly are NOT.  I, and others, have pointed this out for page after page after page, and you, apparently, refuse to acknowledge it.

[bleetman]

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

I'm ALWAYS in favor of dialogues between developers and the fanbase, because that way we can actually see how things are done, and give our input. THAT should be the ultimate goal of the #Retake movement, not "WE DEMAND ICE CREAM CAKE or whatever".

"Sometimes, you have to get someone's attention before they'll listen."

[kbct]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

And you do not have the sales data to back up what impact you think it has. VGC only has first weeks sales listed so far, MVC (very respectable group) has stated the first weeks release was beyond what Bioware or EA could ever of imagined as far as success goes in sales. EA stated they shipped vast amounts. None of these things have shown what the second or third weeks sales were and you knowing some people locally who returned a title or a store locally that has many copies does not equal vast drop in sales for Bioware or EA.

Dragon Age Orgins received 4.5 out of 5 stars. DA2 received 3.5 out of 5 stars. Here is the chart of sales:




ME3 received 2 out of 5 stars. What impact on sales do you think it will have? A positive impact?

Modifié par kbct, 20 mars 2012 - 09:23 .

[Dragoonlordz]

Teacher50 wrote...

Viyu wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

UntalkativeBunny wrote...

Han Shot First wrote...

Where is your proof that all the reviewers on metacritic and amazon are the same people posting here?

Like I said, this whole proof nonsense is pointless. You can't provide viable proof and neither can I, the numbers, pulls, reviews, etc are flawed plain and simple

Actually I have seen people actually say on here they bombed the game on those sites, but I can't say all of them are from here because not all of them have admitted it. Sorry Han though, you do not speak for those who have not said anything (meaning the non vocal) everyone else. 

@Viyu = You are a vocal minority. Whether that vocal minority are expressing the feelings of more than those who are speaking up is debatable and very likely more people disliked the ending than liked it but as far as vocal goes you are the minority. There is no need to go attacking me for stating the reality of the situation but if you feel it someohow invalidates your stance to have the word minority with regard to the specific vocal element you can do so. I'll listen but won't agree.

I don't recall attacking you. However I've tried relentlessly to get this thread back on topic. Which is, why is some guy that convieniently works for a place that advertises Bioware and EA get to be the authority on who is or ISN'T the majority or minority when he has nothing to prove it with? And why isn't anybody paying much attentiion to the fact Gamesutra advertises for publishers such as EA?

Yea... simply look at the adds on a page and you know where their payout comes from.

I doubt that is true, been around a long time and enough to know most sites use a third party that handles advertising such as banner adverts. Those third parties have multiple clients for mutliple products, Yahoo or other sites use that third party rather than going to individual publishers and companies to get specific adverts. They are not sponsered by EA in that regard because EA did not have any contact with Yahoo or other sites that use this third party company. Some sites do get sponsered such as Kotaku but they are few and far between.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 20 mars 2012 - 09:22 .

[Viyu]

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

Viyu wrote...


I don't recall attacking you. However I've tried relentlessly to get this thread back on topic. Which is, why is some guy that convieniently works for a place that advertises Bioware and EA get to be the authority on who is or ISN'T the majority or minority when he has nothing to prove it with? And why isn't anybody paying much attentiion to the fact Gamesutra advertises for publishers such as EA?

Because it's not a conspiracy? I'm sorry, the reason Yahoo is saying you're not a majority is not because he's being paid by BioWare, it's because YOU'RE NOT A MAJORITY. In any objective measure.

If you want to start a complaint saying "Why is he saying we're not a majority on the BSN where poll results that were bombed by people who hated the endings show that we are a majority",  sure, fine, whatever. Go for it. Have fun.

But a majority, of all the people who bought the game, is something you clearly are NOT.  I, and others, have pointed this out for page after page after page, and you, apparently, refuse to acknowledge it.

It's not that I am refusing to deny it, its just that this topic updates at lightning speed and when I'm responding to one person, I'll be on the next page in minutes and I won't get time to read the others. I am not sure if I've read your post yet, and I honestly don't recall it, because I quote other people.  Because of how ridiculously fast paced this forum is, I'm not mindful of what your names are because I'm trying to respond quick enough before a flock of people comment in droves. I'm not sure what you've done to prove your case, but what does that have to do with the fact that this guy just randomly shows up, and without anything to go on, it's his word and we're supposed to follow it.

Modifié par Viyu, 20 mars 2012 - 09:26 .

[Dragoonlordz]

kbct wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

And you do not have the sales data to back up what impact you think it has. VGC only has first weeks sales listed so far, MVC (very respectable group) has stated the first weeks release was beyond what Bioware or EA could ever of imagined as far as success goes in sales. EA stated they shipped vast amounts. None of these things have shown what the second or third weeks sales were and you knowing some people locally who returned a title or a store locally that has many copies does not equal vast drop in sales for Bioware or EA.

Dragon Age Orgins received 4.5 out of 5 stars. DA2 received 3.5 out of 5 stars. Here is the chart of sales:



Actually, I hope that worked. First picture pasted.

I was around for the entire time DA2 existed and was very present on the DA2 fourms so showing me that is something I have seen more times than can remember. It is irrelevent however. DA2 was notoriously badly recieved for the entire content through the game, the current title is only getting attacked due to the last 10 minutes out of around 40hours of gameplay. DA2 was vast change from the previous product and had the negative impact of being not the same style of game as the previous and it was almost a spin off. This is not the case for ME3 and is still pretty much like the first two.  In fact I would say my review of that product is the longest one on the entire BSN so do not assume I am coming from lack of knowledge or experience here.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 20 mars 2012 - 09:30 .