229 réponses à ce sujet

[Sebbe1337o]

I think it rather will cost them too much to NOT make a better ending, or a really good one.

[Salis777]

tdb023 wrote...

Here's the thing. Right now, a lot of fans are really upset about how the game turned out. Yes, the game itself is absolutely stunning, but the ending is the last thing you see in the game. It leaves a bad taste in people's mouths because of all the work you put into it. Bioware doesn't want to be envisioned by fans as being "unfaithful" to the fans, so they will fix it. And who knows, maybe they already have voices recored.

Thats _exactly_ it.  It's such a small fix to make this the gaming trilogy of all time.  That's what the passion is about, that's why it's so difficult to watch, that's why people are respectfully asking for an 'easy' change.

To leave it as it is is basically saying you're ok with losing hundreds of thousands of fans respect over what, trilogy-wise, is a 0.1% of content.  Seems ludicrous to me that they wouldn't address it.  But hey I've seen corporations do more mindblowing things.

[neenee77]

Mutineer81 wrote...

Sorry everyone, but Bioware is not going to fix Mass Effect 3’s ending; at least not the way we want them to. Why not? It will cost too much. 

Now, I don’t think Bioware is TRULY greedy (even though the Javik DLC controversy suggests otherwise), but imagine the scope/cost of trying to fix the ending to Mass Effect 3. It is just too high a price to pay. But why? What would be involved? Consider previous DLCs.

If Bioware half-asses a “fix” they can make it like Mass Effect 2’s DLCs. Think about it, how much new dialogue and character interactions popped up in those DLC’s. Sure, you got more Liara (literally) in Liar of the Shadow Broker, but all your squad mates did was come along for the ride. Mass Effect 2’s DLCs were just extra missions, they may add a little to the story, but – and most people would agree – they are side notes, not an expansion pack. Again, Shadow Broker is kinda-sorta an expansion, but why doesn’t Garrus or Tali say, “Hey Liara! How you been?”

Mind you, I bought all the DLC’s for Mass Effect 2. Sure, Firewalker was a bit lame, but I still enjoyed zipping around in the Hammerhead! Mass Effect 2’s DLC were just a side-story, nothing more. How much did saving David from his brother really add to Mass Effect 3? A few weapon upgrades in the locked room? Yippee! So if Bioware tries to pump out the typical cookie-cutter DLC to fix Mass Effect 3 the backlash will be twice as bad as it is now.

More thoughts: When thinking about trying to fix Mass Effect 3, right away my thoughts go to all the voice actors. To do it right you would have to write them new dialogue - pivotal to the entirety of Mass Effect 3 – and “weave” it in. That would cost a boat-load! You got Bioware man-hours and resources to account for, plus – and this is a biggie - paying the voice actors. I’m sure Seth Green and Keith David don’t come cheap. Good thing the Illusive Man is dead! No way are the corporate suits going to allow that expenditure. Making games is a business and I’m sure Bioware’s plan is to shift most of their focus to the next thing – a new Dragon Age, right?

Now, you can brainstorm all you want about how a revised story would fit into the game – personally I have spent hours mulling over ideas in my head – but it doesn’t matter. In order to truly fix the game Bioware would need to put considerable time, effort, and money into it. And that isn’t going to happen. Take a minute and start calculating the cost – pretty pricey, hunh? Especially since I think a proper/corrective DLC for Mass Effect 3 should exceed ten hours of game play and be heavily intertwined into the original game. 

So sorry my fellow Mass Effect devotees, but the “best” we can hope for is some lame tangential DLC that will feel like a patch job and feel totally separate from the entirety of the game. Mass Effect is dead and Bioware killed it: Commander Shepard. R.I.P. 2007-2012.

--------

Hopefully this kicks off a discussion, I really want to hear people’s thoughts on this: the money/cost issue killing any chance of a new/proper ending to Mass Effect 3.  

Oh! And here’s how devoted I am to the series. I have fifteen games from ME2 to upload to ME3. So far, I have completed three of them (one for each ending choice), but I just had to ship my Xbox out for service because my marathons of playing Mass Effect 3 these past two weeks burned it out. So yeah, I’m a fan!

Well, considering that they cut an idea and a bunch of lines that were originally going to be in there then really they wouldn't have to spend a bunch of money at all. The idea they cut woud fit much better and the lines are there already soo...

[Necromonger Lordmarshal]

 Where are you facts? Give us facts about what you consider "too much money". EA and Bioware already made loads more money than the game actually costed to make. That's how movies do it. Movie cost $200 mill, but it can easily makes twice that much and more if succesful. 

Bioware and EA would lose more by not satisfying customers in the long run. I already hate EA, I try to not buy any EA games from them solely because of how freaking greedy and money hungry they are. They sell you half a product and expect you to pay up for the other half of things already on your copy of the game. Bioware was my only exception to EA and after this, I may never touch another Bioware game again.

[Getorex]

Logistically and financially, the easiest fix is to simply adopt the indoctrination theory (though I am not all that keen on it, it can work well). The ending stays as it is AND we all ignore the existence of the ABSOLUTELY IMPOSSIBLE stargazer portion (I'm serious, stargazer cannot exist...no way to argue otherwise). Everything else from the ending could be leveraged into indoctrination. From there, a simple DLC takes you to non-dream endings.

While I wouldn't necessarily demand an EXPLICITLY happy ending I would like the option to reasonably imagine that one (or two) of the endings offered are "happy". Happy to me means I can suppose that Shepard lived (like the red ending where he takes a breath on the rubble pile) and the Normandy did NOT run far FAR away on a one-way trip through a relay that then blows up.

Deactivate the relays, render them inert, sure, then we can all IMAGINE that they could be studied and maybe reactivated at some point in the future. No hopeful door inexorably closed like you get with blown relays and the Normandy lost in the galaxy.

[cebo7590]

op take a look at this

now tell me that some fan on utube clipping together fragments that are ALREADY in the game can create a better ending then the studio can and then we can talk about money.

Sometimes its not about the loss of money right now but the future lost money that you must be careful of. small business know this. hell even almart knows this, thats why the expression "the customer is always right" came into being

and as far as all this baloney about the ending being art... you have to realize that art is sponsored by patrons. so we (the consumer) are the patrons of Bioware/EA (the artist) we claim we do not like the ending so if they still want our patronage (money) they should at least adress our conserns

Right now i am ok with waiting it out until they say one way or the other. but if it turns out they do not accept responsability for the terrible ending then i will take my patronage elsewhere.

[Mutineer81]

slyguy200 wrote...

it is not because of money, it is because of this

long but worth it, (mostly towards the end) it is very well made and convincing.

The video is very well done and the whole indoctrination theory is interesting, but I see three problems with it.

The first is easy, clearly hardly anyone picked up on it. Gamers aren't dumb people, at least people who play nerdy games aren't dumb, and if gamers didn't pick up on it (by and large), then Bioware failed to get their message across, which is a MASSIVE fail. So they revealed something and nobody notices...thats a crappy reveal. If Shepard really is indoctrinated, we need that "Ohhhhhhh!" moment, which the ending of ME3 doesn't have. That said, I like the indoctrination theory. If its true. Its exciting, I think.

Other problem is, wow that is a crappy thing to do to fans! Fabricate some sort of spooky unbelievably subtle (or invisible) subplot only to have our questions answered by buying the true ending to the game. That is really, really shady, and I would hope Bioware wouldn't cash grab like that.

The last issue is, the indoctrination theory still does not explain why all the decisions and "path" a player chose all along is not reflected in the end. And that is crux of the anger over the ending - what we did, didn't seem to matter in the end. You only get to pick three lame endings that aren't very different from each other.

Then again, maybe Bioware has indoctrinated us to get us all talking and yelling and demanding action about the ending. If that is the case...well, I would be in awe of that genius.

Modifié par Mutineer81, 20 mars 2012 - 10:56 .

[Aradace]

chris fenton wrote...

Funkcase wrote...

not doing it could cost them more in the future.

QFT

Not to mention that the only way I'd be interested is if it were free.  I dont care if it costs them half or more of their assets to remake the ending (obvious exaggeration I know).  They only way I will download it is if there is if there is absolutely no cost.  

[Faridle]

this is third strike for me if they dont do anything well then they wont ever see my money again.

[tekazgtr1984]

This shouldn't be about money... An epic story ending in a way which reflects the choices we made throughout all three games is truly priceless.

And honestly... What else does Bioware plan to do? Making some DLC for earlier games never seemed to hurt the company's bottom line.

[DeinonSlayer]

How expensive it would be really depends on how extensive the change is. Whether it's worth it or not depends on how many customers Bioware stands to lose if they don't change it. People who are demanding that everything be redacted all the way back to the beam (yes, this includes Indoctrination Theory) are asking Bioware to do a lot more work. The solution in my sig is meant to be as easy to implement as possible - a few new lines of dialogue for Shepard and the Catalyst, a few rendered space battle sequences, some voiceover work and still images describing the state of the galaxy in a branching "reporter montage," and a few 60-second post-credits LI cutscenes with no dialogue. That's it.

As it stands, they will not make the kind of money they're expecting for any DLC which does not address the endings, because people simply won't buy it. They have a chance to redeem 80% of a pissed-off fanbase. It'd be a stupid business move not to do it.

Modifié par DeinonSlayer, 20 mars 2012 - 11:02 .

[shepLJ]

Cost too much?...basic maths - 3.5 million copies sold on first days - Aussie $ 109 per standard game - $128 for collectors edition. Average costings for making a game around 20 million (from source read last year). Add all the merchandising - this company has made an absolute fortune - so the cost of employing the voice actors etc - probably a very smart move. They btw were wonderful (Liara/fem shep/joker/Edi/illusive man).

[Solmanian]

Doing what some of the more over zealous people demand (adding a multitude of different endings) will cost too much. But supplementing the existing endings, even with something as trivial as DA:o final montage, to simply tell us what happened to the prominent players in ME3 (turians, quarian/geth, Salarian, asari, krogan etc...) some of which lost their homeworld or it is an a pretty abysmal state. The whole "inferred holocaust" thing need some resolution, preferably one that doesn't involve "space magic".

[Dridengx]

XiaShou wrote...

i dont see money being an issue, cause many ppl stated they would pay alot for that. so costs are not really an issue

I've seen quite a few posts saying they won't pay for it. I've seen a few of people selling their copy, I've seen a few stating its too late DLC won't be enough.

SO I say, oh well. You can't demand if you sold your copy. You can't demand something free either.

[Dridengx]

Salis777 wrote...

To leave it as it is is basically saying you're ok with losing hundreds of thousands of fans respect

Sorry, those numbers are false, false, false. Your movement has 4,000 members on Twitter, and 42,000 on Facebook. Exactly, where are the other hundreds of thousands of fans at precisely?

[Solmanian]

shepLJ wrote...

Cost too much?...basic maths - 3.5 million copies sold on first days - Aussie $ 109 per standard game - $128 for collectors edition. Average costings for making a game around 20 million (from source read last year). Add all the merchandising - this company has made an absolute fortune - so the cost of employing the voice actors etc - probably a very smart move. They btw were wonderful (Liara/fem shep/joker/Edi/illusive man).

So obviously all that money should go toward redoing the endings instead of I don't know, ME3 dlc, DA3 or ME4?

[Salis777]

Solmanian wrote...

Doing what some of the more over zealous people demand (adding a multitude of different endings) will cost too much. But supplementing the existing endings, even with something as trivial as DA:o final montage, to simply tell us what happened to the prominent players in ME3 (turians, quarian/geth, Salarian, asari, krogan etc...) some of which lost their homeworld or it is an a pretty abysmal state. The whole "inferred holocaust" thing need some resolution, preferably one that doesn't involve "space magic".

Agreed, DA:O epilogue just using character models is fine.  Some text explaining the outcomes of the conflicts depending on your decisions.  Not really rocket science, people just want to know what happened to their team/LI.

Oh, and make the ending make sense.  That's probably an idea too.

[DeinonSlayer]

Dridengx wrote...

Salis777 wrote...

To leave it as it is is basically saying you're ok with losing hundreds of thousands of fans respect

Sorry, those numbers are false, false, false. Your movement has 4,000 members on Twitter, and 42,000 on Facebook. Exactly, where are the other hundreds of thousands of fans at precisely?

Those are pretty big sample sizes, from which reasonable estimations can be made. That said, assuming that everyone who isn't vocally complaining about the endings tacitly supports them as they are is just as shortsighted as assuming everyone who hasn't spoken out doesn't like it.

[gmboy902]

Consider the hundreds of thousands of dollars they'll lose if they don't. I'd say that a large majority of the movement to get a new ending (maybe about 40,000 people) won't buy DLC that they would have bought. If DLC is just ten bucks, that's $400,000 lost per DLC unit, unless they fix the ending.

Hell, all they have to do is add an epilogue and many people will come back.

[Salis777]

Dridengx wrote...

Salis777 wrote...

To leave it as it is is basically saying you're ok with losing hundreds of thousands of fans respect

Sorry, those numbers are false, false, false. Your movement has 4,000 members on Twitter, and 42,000 on Facebook. Exactly, where are the other hundreds of thousands of fans at precisely?

It's a pretty fair extrapolation from the amount of people polling negative, FB numbers etc.  The game has say, 1.5-2m owners.  I'm being conservative and assuming the 91% negative poll on the ending being bad is extreme as a sample.  Even saying 50% dislike you're looking at a million people.  I say a few hundred thousand.  Just to, you know, not be going off the deep end analytically.

Modifié par Salis777, 20 mars 2012 - 11:16 .

[NeitherNor]

Dridengx wrote...

Salis777 wrote...

To leave it as it is is basically saying you're ok with losing hundreds of thousands of fans respect

Sorry, those numbers are false, false, false. Your movement has 4,000 members on Twitter, and 42,000 on Facebook. Exactly, where are the other hundreds of thousands of fans at precisely?

You're talking about two different things. It's obvious that the 'movement' has a few thousand supporters at best - it's probably just a tiny number of the total number of ME3 copies sold. Still, that doesn't mean that a lot of others won't be equally disappointed. They just don't feel the need to express it in the same way, or on the BSN, or even at all.

It's really hard to get a measure of these kinds of things. DLC numbers sold would probably be one of the better ways to figure it out, but I don't recall those ever being published.

As for the topic: that's probably true. This is probably as good (or rather not so good) as it'll ever be.

[Solmanian]

Aradace wrote...

chris fenton wrote...

Funkcase wrote...

not doing it could cost them more in the future.

QFT

Not to mention that the only way I'd be interested is if it were free.  I dont care if it costs them half or more of their assets to remake the ending (obvious exaggeration I know).  They only way I will download it is if there is if there is absolutely no cost.  

Is it safe to assume that you're part of the group that demanded day 1 dlc be free? Because posters that repeatadly ask for free stuff, and claim that the game is broken without it, don't realy impress me...

[TLK Spires]

if they do nothing, theyre screwed as it is, and it's all too obvious why. if they do something, then there's two ways to go about it: charge money for it, or not. if they dont, and it's free, boom, best possible move. even in this case, it means they actually charged full price for a truly incomplete game. if they charge money for it, then the thing people have feared happened has finally happened: video game companies have begun charging people extra to see how something ends.

[IST]

Flow charts or it didn't happen.

[LucidStrike]

Vaktathi wrote...

This is one of those things where it may make business sense to do it even if you have to eat a loss on the project for the sake of the brand name and future sales of DLC content, further ME universe games, and other games under the studio brand. Protecting the value of the company and the potential viability of future sales may warrant this action even if by itself it loses money.

Also, 'Broken Steel'?

TLK Spires wrote...

...if they charge money for it, then
the thing people have feared happened has finally happened: video game
companies have begun charging people extra to see how something ends.

That's not fair. It did end. We just weren't satified with it. Let's not be so libelous. =/

Modifié par LucidStrike, 20 mars 2012 - 11:31 .