582 réponses à ce sujet

[Father_Jerusalem]

dragonflight288 wrote...

What's the link to the poll? I'd be open to participating in this.

http://social.biowar...4&poll_id=30171

Thank you! All voted.

[garf]

GME_ThorianCreeper wrote...

Overule wrote...

It'll blow over when they start talking to us like adults.

Maybe they'll start talking to you guys like adults when your "movement" stops acting like children. 

Not all of you but some of you bash and personally attack people if they support Bioware or like the ending.  They have the right to express their opinion on these boards just as much as any of you.

If somone posts a positive comment about the endings they are immeaditely branded "Bio-drones" and "trolls"

Act like adults and you will be treated as such.

Won could reflect that sentiment back to you. Many people of the retake movement work hard to keep things civil. I personally don't believe we get anywhere by resorting to personal attacks.

But they do rankle don't they? For every '****' there's an 'entitled whiner',  for every 'hipster' there's a 'you guys are too dumb(uncultured) to get it)_ and so forth.

I personallly don't think it's fair to say the retake movement are the only ones acting like children. and as I said before many in that movement work hard to keep themselves and those around them Civil and On Message. We believe in adult behaviour and try to encourage it.

Hopefully you can say the same.

[Lycius]

Mx_CN3 wrote...

slyguy200 wrote...

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

...

And I don't deny that there are many who disliked the ending, in point of fact, I've conceded (in other responses to kbct in other threads) that you guys are the majority group here on the BSN. And disliking the endings is PERFECTLY valid.  


I simply don't want to be looked down on and condescended to because I DID like the endings, and you disagree with people doing that as well. So we have a basis to have actual discussions, not flame wars.

then stop starting flame wars with your rediculous ignorance.

*Sigh* do you realize that you could end the flame war (at least on your front) by simply not calling him ignorant, or any of the other insults you have up your sleeve?

If you want to have a debate, then debate the statements he makes, not his character.  That's what a flame war is, and you're not helping to douse it.  If you want him to stop, you should first stop yourself.

Father_jerusalem is nothing more than eloquent troll. He's been all over every thread that he can bash those people who didn't like the ending. His arguements have been crushed several times and he just vacates that thread and moves to the next.

[Mx_CN3]

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

kbct wrote...

Go ahead and speculate that multiple votes, vote-bombing, and poor wording destroyed the poll. Minor influences.

You just don't want to believe any of the evidence. The polls and reviews are hiding the truth.

Go ahead and believe that.

Even minor influences, and these are in no way minor influences, destroy the integrity of a poll. You cannot have scientifically accurate results with corrupted data. You just can't.

Well we can debate the math all night (I did this once with someone arguing about the Femshep poll), but the fact is that even if it is skewed, it would have to be a massive skew to overcome the numbers it's at.  Plus we don't know exactly how much of it is skewed by multiple votes or whatever, it might be less than you think (admittedly, it might also be more).

That said, I, too, wouldn't put too much credence in it as far as actual numbers, and more of a (very) general idea of where the community stands.

[Father_Jerusalem]

kbct wrote...

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

kbct wrote...

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

The sample size is too large due to new multiple votes and vote-bombing, same with the lopsided results - in addition to the fact that the poll was worded and advertised in order to garner one specific result, meaning people who feel differently have absolutely zero motivation to participate in the vote. As for the corroborating evidence? It still draws fro the same tainted pool as this poll, and should be discounted for the same reasons.

Statistics 101.

Go ahead and speculate that multiple votes, vote-bombing, and poor wording destroyed the poll. Minor influences.

You just don't want to believe any of the evidence. The polls and reviews are hiding the truth.

Go ahead and believe that.

Even minor influences, and these are in no way minor influences, destroy the integrity of a poll. You cannot have scientifically accurate results with corrupted data. You just can't.

ME3 sales dropped 74% in the second week:

http://www.gamezone....t-mass-effect-3

DA2 sales dropped only 66%. And DA2 was a dog.

Corrupted data, right?

And there were websites showing the SWTOR sales dropped 80+% after a few weeks, even though BioWare's conference calls state that subscriptions have held steady at 1.8+ million since launch.

Between 1.35 million and 1.85 million copies of ME3 have been sold. The people that were excited to buy it have already bought it. Of course sales are going to drop off. It's still outsold both ME1 and ME2 in a matter of two weeks.

[IST]

MongoChuck wrote...

When Diablo 3 enters the market. Everyone will drop what they have in their hands, leave their children at the supermarket, quit their jobs and educations.

Somehow Diablo has always eluded me.. I did however just get a new rig... so I think I will kick off some Lootorama with the 3rd installment.  How have Diablo 1/2 aged btw?  

[Gatt9]

kbct wrote...

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

The sample size is too large due to new multiple votes and vote-bombing, same with the lopsided results - in addition to the fact that the poll was worded and advertised in order to garner one specific result, meaning people who feel differently have absolutely zero motivation to participate in the vote. As for the corroborating evidence? It still draws fro the same tainted pool as this poll, and should be discounted for the same reasons.

Statistics 101.

Go ahead and speculate that multiple votes, vote-bombing, and poor wording destroyed the poll. Minor influences.

You just don't want to believe any of the evidence. The polls and reviews are hiding the truth.

Go ahead and believe that.

It's the same thing that was posted when DA2 went south.  That time they were blaming 4chan,  and everyone really loved DA2,  it's just 4chan making it look like they don't.  It was 4chan that posted all the negative reviews,  it was 4chan that was complaining on the boards.

And the overwhelming evidence showed that DA2 had in fact failed to impress.  To this day,  some of the people still pretend it was all 4chan.

Truth is,  Bioware's burned all their bridges.  They probably could've salvaged the situation by patching the game to address the lie that SP can achieve the optimal ending,  and promising a free DLC to fix the endings.  At this point,  it's likely too late.  They'll have to release a KotOR/BG2 level game to manage to sell anything in the future,  just on reputation alone now they won't be able to sell anything.

Because if you read the external sites,  the general message is now "I knew Bioware would be destroyed when EA bought them".

[Mx_CN3]

Lycius wrote...

Father_jerusalem is nothing more than eloquent troll. He's been all over every thread that he can bash those people who didn't like the ending. His arguements have been crushed several times and he just vacates that thread and moves to the next.

I have yet to see him troll in this thread (though I didn't read any of pages 3-14), but I have seen him being flamed for things that he was actually right about (e.g. saying that BioWare wasn't technically lying, which is true).  He is also willing to see a good argument and agree to disagree, both of which are not what I would call typical troll-attributes.

[garf]

bobobo878 wrote...

Overule wrote...

It'll blow over when they start talking to us like adults.

But if they wait until you start behaving like adults, this might take a good long time to blow over.

I don't think that's very civil nor Adult. If you really care to see people behave nicely why would incite people just because they disagree with you?

[HenchxNarf]

Mx_CN3 wrote...

Lycius wrote...

Father_jerusalem is nothing more than eloquent troll. He's been all over every thread that he can bash those people who didn't like the ending. His arguements have been crushed several times and he just vacates that thread and moves to the next.

I have yet to see him troll in this thread (though I didn't read any of pages 3-14), but I have seen him being flamed for things that he was actually right about (e.g. saying that BioWare wasn't technically lying, which is true).  He is also willing to see a good argument and agree to disagree, both of which are not what I would call typical troll-attributes.

You, I like.

[Father_Jerusalem]

Mx_CN3 wrote...

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

kbct wrote...

Go ahead and speculate that multiple votes, vote-bombing, and poor wording destroyed the poll. Minor influences.

You just don't want to believe any of the evidence. The polls and reviews are hiding the truth.

Go ahead and believe that.

Even minor influences, and these are in no way minor influences, destroy the integrity of a poll. You cannot have scientifically accurate results with corrupted data. You just can't.

Well we can debate the math all night (I did this once with someone arguing about the Femshep poll), but the fact is that even if it is skewed, it would have to be a massive skew to overcome the numbers it's at.  Plus we don't know exactly how much of it is skewed by multiple votes or whatever, it might be less than you think (admittedly, it might also be more).

That said, I, too, wouldn't put too much credence in it as far as actual numbers, and more of a (very) general idea of where the community stands.

My issue is in using a poll with data that people admit is corrupted as scientific evidence to push your agenda. Nobody sane debates that the people who hated the ending are in the majority here on BSN, but a specific percentage? That's impossible to tell. And using this poll to try and show that the majority of ME3 owners as a WHOLE hate the endings? That I take real umbridge with.

[kbct]

Gatt9 wrote...

kbct wrote...

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

The sample size is too large due to new multiple votes and vote-bombing, same with the lopsided results - in addition to the fact that the poll was worded and advertised in order to garner one specific result, meaning people who feel differently have absolutely zero motivation to participate in the vote. As for the corroborating evidence? It still draws fro the same tainted pool as this poll, and should be discounted for the same reasons.

Statistics 101.

Go ahead and speculate that multiple votes, vote-bombing, and poor wording destroyed the poll. Minor influences.

You just don't want to believe any of the evidence. The polls and reviews are hiding the truth.

Go ahead and believe that.

It's the same thing that was posted when DA2 went south.  That time they were blaming 4chan,  and everyone really loved DA2,  it's just 4chan making it look like they don't.  It was 4chan that posted all the negative reviews,  it was 4chan that was complaining on the boards.

And the overwhelming evidence showed that DA2 had in fact failed to impress.  To this day,  some of the people still pretend it was all 4chan.

Truth is,  Bioware's burned all their bridges.  They probably could've salvaged the situation by patching the game to address the lie that SP can achieve the optimal ending,  and promising a free DLC to fix the endings.  At this point,  it's likely too late.  They'll have to release a KotOR/BG2 level game to manage to sell anything in the future,  just on reputation alone now they won't be able to sell anything.

Because if you read the external sites,  the general message is now "I knew Bioware would be destroyed when EA bought them".

classic. Yeah, if you care to look, the writing is on the wall.

ME3 sales dropped 74% in the second week:

http://www.gamezone....t-mass-effect-3

In comparison, DA2 sales dropped 66%. And we all know how DA2 did in the following weeks.

Ummm, 4chan's fault.

[Father_Jerusalem]

Gatt9 wrote...

kbct wrote...

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

The sample size is too large due to new multiple votes and vote-bombing, same with the lopsided results - in addition to the fact that the poll was worded and advertised in order to garner one specific result, meaning people who feel differently have absolutely zero motivation to participate in the vote. As for the corroborating evidence? It still draws fro the same tainted pool as this poll, and should be discounted for the same reasons.

Statistics 101.

Go ahead and speculate that multiple votes, vote-bombing, and poor wording destroyed the poll. Minor influences.

You just don't want to believe any of the evidence. The polls and reviews are hiding the truth.

Go ahead and believe that.

It's the same thing that was posted when DA2 went south.  That time they were blaming 4chan,  and everyone really loved DA2,  it's just 4chan making it look like they don't.  It was 4chan that posted all the negative reviews,  it was 4chan that was complaining on the boards.

And the overwhelming evidence showed that DA2 had in fact failed to impress.  To this day,  some of the people still pretend it was all 4chan.

Truth is,  Bioware's burned all their bridges.  They probably could've salvaged the situation by patching the game to address the lie that SP can achieve the optimal ending,  and promising a free DLC to fix the endings.  At this point,  it's likely too late.  They'll have to release a KotOR/BG2 level game to manage to sell anything in the future,  just on reputation alone now they won't be able to sell anything.

Because if you read the external sites,  the general message is now "I knew Bioware would be destroyed when EA bought them".

I'm not blaming 4chan. I'm blaming the facts that the poll was advertised as "Come vote on how much you dislike the endings", that the poll allowed multiple votes, and that the sample size is in no way a true breakdown of ME3 owners as a whole. Please, point to me where I blamed 4chan or some other boogeyman that hasn't been already confirmed by the poll creator, and people who voted in the poll.

[dragonflight288]

actually he did not listen at all he just let us see what he said and
acted like a child who refused to accept that a toy wasn't actually his
and stubbornly ignored us hence the flames of troll induced frustration.

....ignoring people is a good way to avoid flame wars.

Modifié par dragonflight288, 21 mars 2012 - 04:38 .

[Salis777]

If I was an exec in BW/EA and looking at that poll and/or the IGN poll (1000 like, 11,000 dislike - Facebook, not so easy to skew). I'd be worried. You debate numbers all you want, it's about the worst poll I've seen on an ending in recent history. I mean even conservatively you can say hundreds of thousands of people don't like it lol.

[HenchxNarf]

dragonflight288 wrote...

actually he did not listen at all he just let us see what he said and
acted like a child who refused to accept that a toy wasn't actually his
and stubbornly ignored us hence the flames of troll induced frustration.

....ignoring people is a good way to avoid flame wars.

Yep, it is.

Popcorn?

[dragonflight288]

Yep, it is.

Popcorn?

Thanks. With butter please.

root beer?

[thunderhawk862002]

You know maybe if BioWare/EA would contact the registered owners through e-mail and ask for their opinion, then there would be no skew. Well at least internally. Are they afraid of what the real data would suggest?

[Father_Jerusalem]

Mx_CN3 wrote...

Lycius wrote...

Father_jerusalem is nothing more than eloquent troll. He's been all over every thread that he can bash those people who didn't like the ending. His arguements have been crushed several times and he just vacates that thread and moves to the next.

I have yet to see him troll in this thread (though I didn't read any of pages 3-14), but I have seen him being flamed for things that he was actually right about (e.g. saying that BioWare wasn't technically lying, which is true).  He is also willing to see a good argument and agree to disagree, both of which are not what I would call typical troll-attributes.

I do try to see when I'm wrong and concede the point, I really do. If someone makes a good argument, I'm always WILLING to listen, even if I don't agree. I think this whole board would be better off if more people were open to that. 

Do I get frustrated and angry? Of course I do, but even then I try to reign myself if if I start swearing or raging. I understand that passions are high on both sides, and it's easy to get mad. It's how you respond after you realize that you're just angry and becoming part of the problem that matters.

[dragonflight288]

Do I get frustrated and angry? Of course I do, but even then I try to reign myself if if I start swearing or raging. I understand that passions are high on both sides, and it's easy to get mad. It's how you respond after you realize that you're just angry and becoming part of the problem that matters.

True words. *eating the popcorn*

[Father_Jerusalem]

dragonflight288 wrote...

actually he did not listen at all he just let us see what he said and
acted like a child who refused to accept that a toy wasn't actually his
and stubbornly ignored us hence the flames of troll induced frustration.

....ignoring people is a good way to avoid flame wars.

Cha, why do you think I haven't responded to any of these guys in several pages? 

You'd think they'd understand that.

[HenchxNarf]

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

dragonflight288 wrote...

actually he did not listen at all he just let us see what he said and
acted like a child who refused to accept that a toy wasn't actually his
and stubbornly ignored us hence the flames of troll induced frustration.

....ignoring people is a good way to avoid flame wars.

Cha, why do you think I haven't responded to any of these guys in several pages? 

You'd think they'd understand that.

Riiighhht.

*noms popcorn*