582 réponses à ce sujet

[hex23]

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

Justin Bieber has 28,690,005 likes on Facebook.

Spongebob Squarepants has 22,993,821.

Starbucks and their god-awful coffee has 22,649,971.

Facebook Page statistics has 20,000. 

I'm glad I'm not doing analysis for you too, because you'd turn 45,000 people out of 1.35-1.85 million into a majority.


Source: 
https://www.facebook...165408200173753 

Your logic is severely flawed considering no matter where the poll is hosted, be it here, IGN, or where ever, the vast majority hates the ending. So no, you aren't comparing 45,000 to everyone who bought the game. You're comparing it to the total number of people that voted in THAT particular poll. And no, not a Facebook poll or a BSN poll specifically, any poll.

By your logic people that didn't vote automatically like the ending....that's not how polls work.

Are you being intentionally dense because what I just explained is common sense.

Modifié par hex23, 21 mars 2012 - 05:24 .

[FatalX7.0]

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

FatalX7.0 wrote...

The "movement" side, most of us can actually state legitimate problems about the ending, while being civil.

The other side? They say we hate it just because.

I'd like to point you to this thread, an opinion piece of why someone liked the ending and what they liked, it took 11 posts before he started getting attacked for liking it; 
http://social.biowar...5/index/9905757 

I'd also like to point you to my posts in this thread, starting with this post http://social.biowar...9097/2#10322138 where I try and explain what I liked about the ending.

Most =/= all

You =/= all

Modifié par FatalX7.0, 21 mars 2012 - 05:24 .

[Salis777]

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

FatalX7.0 wrote...

The "movement" side, most of us can actually state legitimate problems about the ending, while being civil.

The other side? They say we hate it just because.

I'd like to point you to this thread, an opinion piece of why someone liked the ending and what they liked, it took 11 posts before he started getting attacked for liking it; 
http://social.biowar...5/index/9905757 

I'd also like to point you to my posts in this thread, starting with this post http://social.biowar...9097/2#10322138 where I try and explain what I liked about the ending.

Those minority whiners sure are fiesty

[Father_Jerusalem]

thunderhawk862002 wrote...


At this time it's not good because you need some serious financial backing to go this route which people don't want to do now.  Eventually if BioWare never changes the endings then I'm sure it would be time to file.  Soon companies will be lying all the time in interviews never intending for anything to be in the final product.  It's time we held them accountable for the billion dollar business they are a part of.   So eventually it might be reasonable but not now.

So you're saying it's okay to sue a developer, literally sue a developer, because you don't like the ending to a video game? Is it okay to sue a movie studio because you don't like a movie? An author because you don't like how they ended a book? Where is the line drawn? How is this even remotely positive to anyone in any way?

[HenchxNarf]

Salis777 wrote...

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

FatalX7.0 wrote...

The "movement" side, most of us can actually state legitimate problems about the ending, while being civil.

The other side? They say we hate it just because.

I'd like to point you to this thread, an opinion piece of why someone liked the ending and what they liked, it took 11 posts before he started getting attacked for liking it; 
http://social.biowar...5/index/9905757 

I'd also like to point you to my posts in this thread, starting with this post http://social.biowar...9097/2#10322138 where I try and explain what I liked about the ending.

Those minority whiners sure are fiesty

You have to understand that sometimes a few speaks for the many if their voices and actions are loud enough. We have no problems with most of the movement, its the ones that literally don't allow people to have opinions other than their own. And the majority of the time when names are thrown around, its towards them, not you, not towards the ones who don't deserve it.

[Spitfire_mcguire]

I can only hope this "Crusade" doesn't go away, but I am also realistic...it will die down a bit as people do move on, just like after breaking up with something, yet the wound will never really heal. I'm still grieving, but trying to get over it but I still want to see them put out a new ending DLC though, even if its just an epilogue like DAO where you see your legacy years afterwards. I'd be happy then. I'm a whiner?... No. I'm a child?...NO. I am a customer who was lied to and I want to be compensated, and this is going to be done by a new ending.

Empires rise and they fall...I think we are seeing the start decline for Bioware, as they have insulted a majority of their fan base which has stuck by them since KOTOR and earlier. Fan service, especially in games like ME where the gamers have actually influenced the making of the game (i.e. Same Sex relationships for certain characters is what stands out, feedback etc), is very important since but it is also practical. This will hurt them financially in the long run so they should do something about it... to rebuild trust and to do it for their loyal fan base which got them here in the first place.

Question: How long did it take for Besethda to put out a new DLC ending for Fallout 3? If they can do it, Bioware can certainly pull it off.

p.s. I think that for people who like the ending or are not with the movement, your opinions are valid. There is things I liked about the ending...destruction of the Citadel, Mass Relays, etc. If the entire galaxy was set up to simply carry out cycles of extinction, then you would need to get rid of that environment that was built to end the cycle.

[Jack Harper24]

I just don't understand why some people don't like the people who didn't like the ending...

Look like we are the bad one...

[Mox Ruuga]

If Bioware keeps up with the silent treatment, I too predict that by a month's time at the latest the furor will have mostly died down. Not the bitterness though, and ME3 will continue to serve as a punchline for a long time.

I also predict that the next game they announce (DA3?) will be met with a storm of derision from their own fanbase, and that won't abate for the whole development cycle once the game has been announced. Which they kinda have coming after DA2 and the ME3 endings.

[HenchxNarf]

Jack Harper24 wrote...

I just don't understand why some people don't like the people who didn't like the ending...

Look like we are the bad one...

Because getting death threats really sours someones outlook on someone else. I have no problem with most people who don't like the ending. I have a problem with those who won't let others enjoy the ending.

[Father_Jerusalem]

hex23 wrote...

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

Justin Bieber has 28,690,005 likes on Facebook.

Spongebob Squarepants has 22,993,821.

Starbucks and their god-awful coffee has 22,649,971.

Facebook Page statistics has 20,000. 

I'm glad I'm not doing analysis for you too, because you'd turn 45,000 people out of 1.35-1.85 million into a majority.


Source: 
https://www.facebook...165408200173753 

Your logic is severely flawed considering no matter where the poll is hosted, be it here, IGN, or where ever, the vast majority hates the ending. So no, you aren't comparing 45,000 to everyone who bought the game. You're comparing it to the total number of people that voted in THAT particular poll. And no, not a Facebook poll or a BSN poll specifically, any poll.

By your logic people that didn't vote automatically like the ending....that's not how polls work.

Are you being intentionally dense because what I just explained is common sense.

No, again, all these polls are drawing from the same tiny sample size: Mass Effect 3 owners who frequent video game websites and are passionate enough on how they feel to voice their opinions.

It would be one thing if EA sent emails or phone calls to registered owners asking for their opinions, but there's a reason why when pollsters look for, say, 50,000 responses when calling people to ask questions, they generally have to make around 200,000 phone calls. And if THAT poll showed the same results, then there's no possible way I could argue against it, and I would concede the point.

But this is a self-selecting sample of a minority of fans from the same tainted pool.

[ragnorok87]

it will not die down and i will keep it going if i have to. i have also considered traveling to bioware hq and i am currently compiling a massive list of comments, stories reviews, videos etc of ppls horrible experiences with me3 and lots of petition signautres. i am willing to take out a 100k loan from the bank if i can get the job done. thats how much i am willing to sacrifice to make everyone happy. wish me luck. if u want to xcome support me il pay for your tickets.

[Salis777]

HenchxNarf wrote...

You have to understand that sometimes a few speaks for the many if their voices and actions are loud enough. We have no problems with most of the movement, its the ones that literally don't allow people to have opinions other than their own. And the majority of the time when names are thrown around, its towards them, not you, not towards the ones who don't deserve it.

Don't allow you to have opinions??  A lot of people are upset, regardless of what either of us feel,  I'd say avoid them for now and let the storm die down.  It's like going up to 10,000 protestors and saying 'Hey guys I really think you are wrong and here's why...'

No one's forcing you to read/respond.  Personally I don't pick a side in this I just find it very interesting as a development in the gaming industry, mostly from a business perspective.

[Jack Harper24]

HenchxNarf wrote...

Jack Harper24 wrote...

I just don't understand why some people don't like the people who didn't like the ending...

Look like we are the bad one...

Because getting death threats really sours someones outlook on someone else. I have no problem with most people who don't like the ending. I have a problem with those who won't let others enjoy the ending.

Let them talk.

Seriously...

We have a war on this thread just because we have some mean people on our side?

[batlin]

People are still complaining about Dragon Age 2. This isn't nearly as bad as Dragon Age 2, but still.

[HenchxNarf]

Salis777 wrote...

HenchxNarf wrote...

You have to understand that sometimes a few speaks for the many if their voices and actions are loud enough. We have no problems with most of the movement, its the ones that literally don't allow people to have opinions other than their own. And the majority of the time when names are thrown around, its towards them, not you, not towards the ones who don't deserve it.

Don't allow you to have opinions??  A lot of people are upset, regardless of what either of us feel,  I'd say avoid them for now and let the storm die down.  It's like going up to 10,000 protestors and saying 'Hey guys I really think you are wrong and here's why...'

No one's forcing you to read/respond.  Personally I don't pick a side in this I just find it very interesting as a development in the gaming industry, mostly from a business perspective.

What I meant by that is that anytime a positive/pro-ending post, they get trolled right off the forum for saying they like the game as a whole.

[Father_Jerusalem]

Salis777 wrote...

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

FatalX7.0 wrote...

The "movement" side, most of us can actually state legitimate problems about the ending, while being civil.

The other side? They say we hate it just because.

I'd like to point you to this thread, an opinion piece of why someone liked the ending and what they liked, it took 11 posts before he started getting attacked for liking it; 
http://social.biowar...5/index/9905757 

I'd also like to point you to my posts in this thread, starting with this post http://social.biowar...9097/2#10322138 where I try and explain what I liked about the ending.

Those minority whiners sure are fiesty

It's not about "minority whiners being feisty". It's about me trying to show you that we CAN discuss, rationally, how we feel about the endings just as well as your side can. I've seen GREAT criticism threads that show why people think the ending is flawed and I've seen GREAT explanation threads that show why people like the ending even if they may not think it's perfect.

These are the discussions we should be having, calling people "whiners" "babies" "idiots" "brats" "ignorant" or whatever only serves to drag EVERYBODY down.

[ragnorok87]

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

hex23 wrote...

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

Justin Bieber has 28,690,005 likes on Facebook.

Spongebob Squarepants has 22,993,821.

Starbucks and their god-awful coffee has 22,649,971.

Facebook Page statistics has 20,000. 

I'm glad I'm not doing analysis for you too, because you'd turn 45,000 people out of 1.35-1.85 million into a majority.


Source: 
https://www.facebook...165408200173753 

Your logic is severely flawed considering no matter where the poll is hosted, be it here, IGN, or where ever, the vast majority hates the ending. So no, you aren't comparing 45,000 to everyone who bought the game. You're comparing it to the total number of people that voted in THAT particular poll. And no, not a Facebook poll or a BSN poll specifically, any poll.

By your logic people that didn't vote automatically like the ending....that's not how polls work.

Are you being intentionally dense because what I just explained is common sense.

No, again, all these polls are drawing from the same tiny sample size: Mass Effect 3 owners who frequent video game websites and are passionate enough on how they feel to voice their opinions.

It would be one thing if EA sent emails or phone calls to registered owners asking for their opinions, but there's a reason why when pollsters look for, say, 50,000 responses when calling people to ask questions, they generally have to make around 200,000 phone calls. And if THAT poll showed the same results, then there's no possible way I could argue against it, and I would concede the point.

But this is a self-selecting sample of a minority of fans from the same tainted pool.

you are the vocal minority that likes the terrible ending and its a safe bet that you are probabily working for ea or bioware or are paid for such statements. actually the vast majority hate the endings as evidence on not just gaming sites but every single site where me3 is being discussed. look at the comments from paid off gaming sites like ign. ign gives a raving review, 99 percent of all responses are negative. hmmjm that doesnt sound like a minority to me. nope i got it you aree the minority.

[thunderhawk862002]

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

thunderhawk862002 wrote...


At this time it's not good because you need some serious financial backing to go this route which people don't want to do now.  Eventually if BioWare never changes the endings then I'm sure it would be time to file.  Soon companies will be lying all the time in interviews never intending for anything to be in the final product.  It's time we held them accountable for the billion dollar business they are a part of.   So eventually it might be reasonable but not now.

So you're saying it's okay to sue a developer, literally sue a developer, because you don't like the ending to a video game? Is it okay to sue a movie studio because you don't like a movie? An author because you don't like how they ended a book? Where is the line drawn? How is this even remotely positive to anyone in any way?

Can you read?  Seriously.  Can you read? How many fricken times do I have to say IT IS NOT BECAUSE I DIDN'T LIKE THE ENDING.  You can sue someone for FALSE/DECEPTIVE ADVERTISING.  Unfortunately, the false advertisement is about the ending itself.   If a movie says Will Smith is featured in the ending, it better have Will Smith featured in the ending.  If an author says that the ending will bring back a certain character that was extremely popular and doesn't?  Yes, yes I would.  If it were that important to me as a consumer.

Edit: I am not suing anyone.  Although I did send complaints to the FTC/BBB.

Modifié par thunderhawk862002, 21 mars 2012 - 05:36 .

[HenchxNarf]

ragnorok87 wrote...

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

hex23 wrote...

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

Justin Bieber has 28,690,005 likes on Facebook.

Spongebob Squarepants has 22,993,821.

Starbucks and their god-awful coffee has 22,649,971.

Facebook Page statistics has 20,000. 

I'm glad I'm not doing analysis for you too, because you'd turn 45,000 people out of 1.35-1.85 million into a majority.


Source: 
https://www.facebook...165408200173753 

Your logic is severely flawed considering no matter where the poll is hosted, be it here, IGN, or where ever, the vast majority hates the ending. So no, you aren't comparing 45,000 to everyone who bought the game. You're comparing it to the total number of people that voted in THAT particular poll. And no, not a Facebook poll or a BSN poll specifically, any poll.

By your logic people that didn't vote automatically like the ending....that's not how polls work.

Are you being intentionally dense because what I just explained is common sense.

No, again, all these polls are drawing from the same tiny sample size: Mass Effect 3 owners who frequent video game websites and are passionate enough on how they feel to voice their opinions.

It would be one thing if EA sent emails or phone calls to registered owners asking for their opinions, but there's a reason why when pollsters look for, say, 50,000 responses when calling people to ask questions, they generally have to make around 200,000 phone calls. And if THAT poll showed the same results, then there's no possible way I could argue against it, and I would concede the point.

But this is a self-selecting sample of a minority of fans from the same tainted pool.

you are the vocal minority that likes the terrible ending and its a safe bet that you are probabily working for ea or bioware or are paid for such statements. actually the vast majority hate the endings as evidence on not just gaming sites but every single site where me3 is being discussed. look at the comments from paid off gaming sites like ign. ign gives a raving review, 99 percent of all responses are negative. hmmjm that doesnt sound like a minority to me. nope i got it you aree the minority.

Again with the "You like the game!?!? YOU WORK FOR EA!" Jesus. And people wonder why things get said?

[Father_Jerusalem]

ragnorok87 wrote...


you are the vocal minority that likes the terrible ending and its a safe bet that you are probabily working for ea or bioware or are paid for such statements. actually the vast majority hate the endings as evidence on not just gaming sites but every single site where me3 is being discussed. look at the comments from paid off gaming sites like ign. ign gives a raving review, 99 percent of all responses are negative. hmmjm that doesnt sound like a minority to me. nope i got it you aree the minority.

Sigh.

*continues slamming his head against a brick wall*

[Vlad1113]

People who like the ending are in the minority, if you look at any poll regardless of size of the sample of individuals it always games down to a 9-1 majority who dont like the game.

The reason most individuals dont comment either way is simple, Joe Bloggs average is not really 'political' in his/her outlook they dont realise they can have a say. If you look at any president/prime minister in any American or European country in the passed 20 years they have all got in to power on a 'minority' vote i.e. Only a small to moderate percentage of the population voted for them, the majority could not really be bothered to turn out.

If you look it in that context, then our genuine complaint is a 'MASSIVE landslide' of concensus.


On a personal note, my gaming community (friends, colleagues, club mates and guild mates) is pretty large, out of that sample of individuals I would say its again an easy 9-1 majority in favour of a new ending. As it is the current one is not complete, too many logical holes.

[Salis777]

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

It's not about "minority whiners being feisty". It's about me trying to show you that we CAN discuss, rationally, how we feel about the endings just as well as your side can. I've seen GREAT criticism threads that show why people think the ending is flawed and I've seen GREAT explanation threads that show why people like the ending even if they may not think it's perfect.

These are the discussions we should be having, calling people "whiners" "babies" "idiots" "brats" "ignorant" or whatever only serves to drag EVERYBODY down.

I'm not on any side, I think you are missing some major feedback from obvious sources and trying to ignore things for your own argument.  I'm not challenging anyones opinions about the endings personally, and I think if you like the ending thats great.

Aside from that, the thread isn't about this, and seems to have turned into your war against 'them.'  Whoever they are heh.

I think there are major issues and to address the OP this is FAR from over, and the company will be dealing with this for years in indirect ways.  

[Salis777]

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

ragnorok87 wrote...


you are the vocal minority that likes the terrible ending and its a safe bet that you are probabily working for ea or bioware or are paid for such statements. actually the vast majority hate the endings as evidence on not just gaming sites but every single site where me3 is being discussed. look at the comments from paid off gaming sites like ign. ign gives a raving review, 99 percent of all responses are negative. hmmjm that doesnt sound like a minority to me. nope i got it you aree the minority.

Sigh.

*continues slamming his head against a brick wall*

Rule #1 - Don't reply to trolling

[Vlad1113]

Ragnarok87...Im not going to be personal on this but I will note your joining date on the forums...Joined: 2012-03-13 and the lack of registered Bioware content on your profile speaks more about your 'replys' in context than anything else I can say.

You are entitled to your opinion, nay in a strong discussion it is good to have an opposing view. Simple fact is on sample the people who liked the ending are in the minority.

We all love the game, its only the last 10 minutes that lose us and very nearly ruin the trilogy.

[Father_Jerusalem]

thunderhawk862002 wrote...

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

thunderhawk862002 wrote...


At this time it's not good because you need some serious financial backing to go this route which people don't want to do now.  Eventually if BioWare never changes the endings then I'm sure it would be time to file.  Soon companies will be lying all the time in interviews never intending for anything to be in the final product.  It's time we held them accountable for the billion dollar business they are a part of.   So eventually it might be reasonable but not now.

So you're saying it's okay to sue a developer, literally sue a developer, because you don't like the ending to a video game? Is it okay to sue a movie studio because you don't like a movie? An author because you don't like how they ended a book? Where is the line drawn? How is this even remotely positive to anyone in any way?

Can you read?  Seriously.  Can you read? How many fricken times do I have to say IT IS NOT BECAUSE I DIDN'T LIKE THE ENDING.  You can sue someone for FALSE/DECEPTIVE ADVERTISING.  Unfortunately, the false advertisement is about the ending itself.   If a movie says Will Smith is featured in the ending, it better have Will Smith featured in the ending.  If an author says that the ending will bring back a certain character that was extremely popular and doesn't?  Yes, yes I would.  If it were that important to me as a consumer.

Edit: I am not suing anyone.  Although I did send complaints to the FTC/BBB.

"Eventually if BioWare never changes the endings then I'm sure it would be time to file." Your exact words. 

And this does not meet, in any way, the legal requirements for "false advertising", It's commonly accepted that hype and publicity are a part of any launch for any form of medium. If a band releases an album and says "Our best album ever!" You can't sue the if you disagree. 

"To establish that an advertisement is false, a plaintiff must prove five things: (1) a false statement of fact has been made about the advertiser's own or another person's goods, services, or commercial activity; (2) the statement either deceives or has the potential to deceive a substantial portion of its targeted audience; (3) the deception is also likely to affect the purchasing decisions of its audience; (4) the advertising involves goods or services in interstate commerce; and (5) the deception has either resulted in or is likely to result in injury to the plaintiff. The most heavily weighed factor is the advertisement's potential to injure a customer. The injury is usually attributed to money the consumer lost through a purchase that would not have been made had the advertisement not been misleading. False statements can be defined in two ways: those that are false on their face and those that are implicitly false."

The simple fact is that a "substantial portion of it's targeted audiience" paid no attention at all to quotes made by developers in online interviews.

Let me put it this way, if you could sue over this kind of thing, publicists would be out of business quicker than Lindsay Lohan showing up at a coke party.