41 réponses à ce sujet

[Norolim]

{this topic should be in Dragon Age III section, but since it doeasn't yet exist, I decided to post it here. Please move it to the appropriate section, when one is created.}

Hello Bioware. I own and have played most of your games. I loved Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights and Knights of the Old Republic games. I also enjoyed Mass Effect. I used to be a devoted fan. This changed. I'm not going to rant about anything here, but I must admit I was rather disapointed with a few of your recent games. This is why, although I enjoyed Dragon Age: Origins, I didn't buy Dragon Age II. Why? Let me just tell you that my favourite Bioware game is Baldur's Gate II: Shadows of Amn...it should now be clear why I didn't like the second installment of the Dragon Age series.

I hear, however, that it is very likely you are beginning development of Dragon Age 3. I see that you're asking fans for feedback. I could give you a list of things I would like to see in the new game, but you probably know very well, what your long time fans would like your next game to be (challenge, tactical combat, good story and the likes). Therefore, I am going to tell you something you might not know:

I DON'T want Dragon Age III to be:

• a game based on Frostbite 2.0 engine;
• a first person shooter diguised as an RPG;
• a game with action oriented, easy combat;
• an MMO;
• a game with multiplayer, esp co-op multiplayer;
• a game with cliché plot
• a rushed product;
• a game in which you are trying to please EVERYONE;
• a platform for campaigning for minorities (be it political, sexual or racial)
• a game in which I have no chance to think on my own, because of excessive use of tips, waypoints, etc.

I'd like to know what others think? Do you agree with any of the above? Do you have your own DON'T WANTS?

Modifié par Norolim, 20 mars 2012 - 09:22 .

[Wulfram]

What's wrong with Frostbite 2.0? I don't know much about it in particular, but if it can do a Command and Conquer game, it should be able to handle tactical squad combat at least.

Not sure why co-op multiplayer would be worse than any other kind of multiplayer. Though they're both unnecessary - and definitely shouldn't be tied to success in SP like in ME3.

Every plot is a cliche these days it seems. As long as it's well executed, manages to put an interesting spin on it and includes good characters, I don't mind if the central plot isn't all that innovative.

Campaigning would be bad, but inclusion isn't campaigning. And Dragon Age games necessarily include issues of racism and intolerance, unless you're going to rewrite the setting. Though getting too heavy handed on direct real world paralels can be bad.

Modifié par Wulfram, 20 mars 2012 - 09:39 .

[Norolim]

When I look at the list of games made on Frostbite 2.0, I'm guessing it's an action oriented engine. There is definitely too little known about Command & Conquer: Generals 2 to be able to say how good the engine will be for that.

Because co-op multiplayer is an obligatory feature in all types of games, it seems these days.

Your point about cliche: that's what I meant. Didn't want to make the point too long.

I meant "campaigning" not mere inclusion. As in including so much of something, that it feels forced upon the player (simplification).

Modifié par Norolim, 20 mars 2012 - 09:59 .

[DarkAmaranth1966]

All I care is that it is a decent SINGLE PLAYER game in that fits in the DA universe. If it's MMO I will not be buying it as I do not have access to broadband (that would involve packing up my computer, driving 150 miles one way, getting a hotel and paying per hour for broadband internet access) So if it's MMO, it had best come with lifetime free gas, hotel and public internet vouchers so I can go play every weekend.

The two main reasons I buy and play the game is that is is medieval combat with a story and, it is NOT MMO.

[BillsVengenace]

"Cinematic".

[cJohnOne]

Well I like easy games. You mean like Dungeon Siege I and DragonAge2?


In fact I need them to be easy as I'm a bad player.  Well I guess I do play on hard on those games.  Good thing there difficulty setttings. Check that I play on normal on Dungeon Siege I. or do I I remember playing on hard during the opening sections, oh well.

Modifié par cJohnOne, 20 mars 2012 - 11:16 .

[T3HB3N]

I don't want DA III to be DA:O II or of the quality of DA II. Stick to that formula and follow those 2 rules. I'll be specific at a later date when I can be bothered.

[BomimoDK]

Norolim wrote...

When I look at the list of games made on Frostbite 2.0, I'm guessing it's an action oriented engine. There is definitely too little known about Command & Conquer: Generals 2 to be able to say how good the engine will be for that.

You obviously have no idea about what an engine is and how it works. An engine is in no way ever genre locked/favoured until the specific game itself starts adapting it. If they could make so many diverse games with it, sure they can make an RPG.
The Source engine has been used for Action RPGs and RTS and the Cryengine supports MMOs. 

Frostbite 2 in DA3 is going to be king! If i'm not mistaken Origins and 2 are a far out branch of UE3 called Eclipse engine. That's a fast paced shooter engine. Didn't seem to have an impact, did it?

Study up son. Don't make dumb points.



As for Co-op. Why not? Baldur's Gate had it and NWN practically thrived on it. I see no issue with co-op gameplay.

[Meris]

BomimoDK wrote...

Norolim wrote...

When I look at the list of games made on Frostbite 2.0, I'm guessing it's an action oriented engine. There is definitely too little known about Command & Conquer: Generals 2 to be able to say how good the engine will be for that.

You obviously have no idea about what an engine is and how it works. An engine is in no way ever genre locked/favoured until the specific game itself starts adapting it. If they could make so many diverse games with it, sure they can make an RPG.
The Source engine has been used for Action RPGs and RTS and the Cryengine supports MMOs. 

Frostbite 2 in DA3 is going to be king! If i'm not mistaken Origins and 2 are a far out branch of UE3 called Eclipse engine. That's a fast paced shooter engine. Didn't seem to have an impact, did it?

Study up son. Don't make dumb points.



As for Co-op. Why not? Baldur's Gate had it and NWN practically thrived on it. I see no issue with co-op gameplay.

Examples are a gem. If I'm not mistaken the Witcher was made in a heavily modified version of the Aurora Engine from NWN.

[hurricaneez2]

Just give me a real sequal to Origins and I will be happy.

[Maria Caliban]

I can't think of any specific thing that BioWare could do that would make me dislike Dragon Age II.

This is like going up to a chef and giving them a list of ingredients that they absolutely can't use. Almost everything I dislike can be something I like given the right treatment.

[the-expatriate]

I agree with most of the OP's points generally, but with modifications:

- Excluding the use of the Frostbite 2.0 engine isn't really the issue, if we're on the same page. What I really want is a game that feels natural when played tactically, not closely 3rd person limited like the direction DA2 went, where any idea of 'tactics' is mostly your imagination as far as you know because you lack a good means of viewing it

- (I think this ties into your second point of not wanting a "first person shooter disguised as an RPG." I might also clarify that this includes excessive focus on instant action, as if that provides the most reward for players; maybe it often does in the short run... but is that really the value Bioware wants to (continue to) run with?

- regarding multiplayer.... well, I have no objection to what was done for ME3. Mainly because I didn't play it. If developing it requires taking resources from the single player campaign then for the love of god PLEASE don't include multiplayer. There are other ways to add lasting value in games (please refer to long-term player gratification over instant gratification in game design... but this could easily turn into a whole novel so I'll stop there. If nothing else, Baldur's Gate games offer a good model for this in terms of replayability)

- Game with a cliche plot? You know what... I don't really care. Cliches are so cliche. Really now; let's just abandon that term altogether shall we? The most powerful stories are often the simplest... I mean, you're the progeny of the Lord of Murder?? Son/daughter of a god, destined for greatness?? C'mon! Face it, on paper that sounds like a 14 year olds fan-shortstory. Yet it was obviously made much greater than the sum of its parts... perhaps the focus should be on replicating 'how' ...?

- Rushed product; this is self explanatory. No one wants this. Down with copy/pasted dungeons!

- Ah... a game that tries to please EVERYONE. This I wholeheartedly agree with.... Bioware, you CANNOT please all the people all the time! Business models no doubt demand the widest market possible for the highest return profit... yet when trying to determine ALL the aspects which are most important to ALL the varyingly dissenting fanbases, then try to cram them all in together-- you guessed it -- it just makes the overall value worse as a whole, and tends to get NONE of those things quite right for anyone. This is quite vague, I know... but it seems like an emerging trend in recent Bioware games, and also seems like a large part of the more recent design philosophies which have led to games being not generally well-received by long term fans (and I won't pretend like we're some 'highly valued' group... we're just a vocal minority to Bioware at this point, a very small portion of the potential buyers which rationally self-interested investment-return models demand that they cater to).

The last two are minor points comparatively, and I will leave them out for now as I am tired and must forthwith fall face first into bed; goodbye and adieu.

Modifié par the-expatriate, 21 mars 2012 - 08:40 .

[DragonStrike]

No multiplayer. Its not needed and generally takes away from the single player of games.
Huge dlcs/expansions only. Charge appropriately but stop with these mini transactions! No weapon packs just give good drops from dlc bosses, etc.

Modifié par DragonStrike, 21 mars 2012 - 11:43 .

[cJohnOne]

I don't play multiplayer. If it's there I don't want it to get in my way in the single player game.

[Norolim]

BomimoDK wrote...

You obviously have no idea about what an engine is and how it works. An engine is in no way ever genre locked/favoured until the specific game itself starts adapting it. If they could make so many diverse games with it, sure they can make an RPG.
The Source engine has been used for Action RPGs and RTS and the Cryengine supports MMOs. 

Frostbite 2 in DA3 is going to be king! If i'm not mistaken Origins and 2 are a far out branch of UE3 called Eclipse engine. That's a fast paced shooter engine. Didn't seem to have an impact, did it?

Study up son. Don't make dumb points.

As for Co-op. Why not? Baldur's Gate had it and NWN practically thrived on it. I see no issue with co-op gameplay.

Remember the following for the rest of your life. It is generally advisable to consult Wikipedia or a much wiser friend before attempting to enlighten others, when your knowledge is as limited as yours.

1. A game engine is actually a framework or a set of engines, tools and functionalities that allow developers make their games. It consists of various types of rendering engines, physics engines, display and animation models, input tools, user interfaces and sometimes AIs and mechanics. All of the above can be better suited for certain types of games and offer limitations in case of others. This is why I would prefer a dedicated RPG engine instead of Frostbite 2.0 (unless it honestly is very flexible; it was not evidenced so far, however, as all but one games built on it were FPS, with the one being Need for Speed - an FPS in a car). Plus it doesn't support DirectX 9.0.

2. The development of the Eclipse engine started way before Bioware licensed Unreal Engine 3. It was not based on UE3. You are wrong again. UE3 was used to build Mass Effect games and it clearly shows.

3. DA II was based on Lycium engine, which actually is an evolved version of Eclipse, but it still means you are WRONG AGAIN. How many times can you be wrong in one sentence?

the-expatriate wrote...
If developing it requires taking resources from the single player campaign then for the love of god PLEASE don't include multiplayer.

That's the main reason I don't want multi in DA3

Modifié par Norolim, 21 mars 2012 - 12:04 .

[accessd]

I want a DA:O II. If they call it DA3 - fine.

Modifié par accessd, 21 mars 2012 - 12:23 .

[DarkAmaranth1966]

DAO is done, gone and soon DA2 will be as well. DA3 won't be an expansion or sequel, it will be a new game just as DA2 was a new game.

[Draythe]

Voiced protagonist = automatic pass on DA3 for me. Keep Mass Effect's "cinematic" dialogue system confined to Mass Effect. Give me more than 3 choices, like RPGs used to.

Modifié par Draythe, 21 mars 2012 - 02:49 .

[PinkShoes]

Things we DONT want?

Well...

I dont want the whole game to basically be Angry birds but Mages throwing fire balls at templars?
Actually i would love that on my phone lol

[Tom12]

I agree with everything you said except for the frostbite 2 engine. I would love it to have frostbite 2 as it would also make sense, if they would keep the one they have now only with some tweaks many people will believe da3 hasnt changed at all from da2 and besides that they would have to start from scratch with da4, taking a new engine because of its outdated graphics... i would rather like them to use a good new engine for da3 and set a blueprint, so they could also use it for da4, like me2 and me3 did, would save them a lot of time and they could concentrate on other things but keeping the engine from da2 is just a bad idea imo.

[G00N3R7883]

I'll second the no MMO/Multiplayer points. Or if there really really absolutely must be multiplayer, don't do what ME3 did and link it to the singleplayer quest.

[Norolim]

Tom12 wrote...

[...]keeping the engine from da2 is just a bad idea imo.

I didn't mean that. No no...I hope they scrap the Lycium engine, or  sell it to, I don't know, the developers of the next Sonic game. I was thinking about a completely new proper RPG specific engine.

[hamlin69]

I want it to be like DA:O. I had so much fun with that game because I got to choose my what race I wanted to be, the story of where my character came from and it all affected the outcome of the game.DA 2 seemed like everything was already chosen for me, which isn't fun.

[KennethAFTopp]

Let's not try that framed narrative thing anymore shall we?

Also let me create my character before I set foot in the damned game, unlike DAII.

[Draythe]

Multiplayer is already confirmed sadly. I really wish they'd rethink that.

Races other than human are a must.