319 réponses à ce sujet

[Leafs43]

FTL doesn't work in a system itself.

In a star system the Normandy has to use more conventional means of propulsion.

FTL is only used to go from star to star, and with no mass relay is extremely heavy on the fuel.

[michal9o90]

samvim wrote...

There is one problem with your calculation: you are using logic - and is obvious that ending is illogical:)

But grats for calculations;p

What can i say? But we want change ending for more logical, that is why i did it, i hope bioware will read this.

Leafs43 wrote...

FTL doesn't work in a system itself.

In a star system the Normandy has to use more conventional means of propulsion.

FTL is only used to go from star to star, and with no mass relay is extremely heavy on the fuel.

So what is prove?

Only that that I'M RIGHT, Normandy cant even escape from earth space, or solar system, before this wave catch Joker. So ending is the best Illogical ending in whole History of games.

Modifié par michal9o90, 20 mars 2012 - 10:50 .

[pika9519]

I love you.

[DarthLaxian]

well you might need to cut the airbags open in order do "shovel" in the bloody mess left after that - even there is even bloody mess left to be had

greetings LAX
ps: space magic sucks!
pps: i guess your love interest was garrus (he also calculates a whole lot of stuff ^^)

Modifié par DarthLaxian, 20 mars 2012 - 10:49 .

[Reptilian Rob]

As someone who loves physics and astronomy, you make me cry manly tears of happiness.

Modifié par Reptilian Rob, 20 mars 2012 - 10:48 .

[ManznPain]

+1 internet to you. this is amazing

[Smiley556]

Catroi wrote...

you can't use FTL in a star system (think about the asteroid belt) you would die

Then how does one travel from Charon relay to earth...?

for the record, FTL means faster than light. ie. sublight speed would have a max speed of 300.000 km/s. Traveling from a relay to any planet in a system without FTL would take ages.

Modifié par Smiley556, 20 mars 2012 - 10:52 .

[cyric085]

michal9o90 wrote...

This comment is of course entitled and dedicated to bioware workes for the most part but it also may serve asgood guide for gamers who are not into mass effect's plot so deeply.

Just for curiosity because this gave me no peace. I accurately calculated the FTL SPEED in MASS EFFECT! And Can Joker really escape from wave and get to the new planet?!

In ME FTL can do 12 light years in 24 Hours.

SO

Speed of LIGHT = 300 000 km/s

 

For better understanding I use American scale:

1,000,000 – one million

1,000,000,000 – one billion (a thousand million)

1,000,000,000,000 -one trillion (a thousand billion)

 

So if you multiply the time (seconds) and speed of light then you get THAT:

12 light years = 113 529 600 000 000 kilometers ( 113 Trilions 529 Bilions  600 milions Kilometers for 12 years)

 
BUT

In Mass effect 12 ligth years you can do in 24 Hours. So if you want to know how much ship fly in one second, you have to do simply calculations:

 

113 529 600 000 000 KM –86 400s (it’s 24 Hours)

          X   ---------------------  1 s

 

X = (113 529 600 000 000KM *1s) : 86 400s = 1 314 000 000KM

So our X = 1 314 000 000KM/s

THIS IS “FTL SPEED” IN MASS EFFECT

( One Billion and 314 millions kilometers per second)





http://imageshack.us...sareinours.jpg/
Now I will tell you how far Pluto is, And Our Charon Relay, if you want to know Charon Relay is a Pluto’s natural satellite (Like in real world, Pluto have (moon) natural satellite which is called exactly same as Charon Relay)

 
How Far Pluto is?  39 AU.  WHAT IS AU?

AU- An astronomicalunit (abbreviated as AU, au, a.u., or ua) is a unit of length equal to about 149,597,870.7 kilometres (92,955,807.3mi)[1] or approximately the mean Earth–Sun distance. So earth is “ONE AU” from the SUN.

1 AU approximately = 150 milions Kilometers

You ask…..How far Pluto is from the earth? Approximately is 38AU!

SO Pluto is 38*150milions =5 700 000 000 km ( 5 bilions and 700 milions Kilometers) from earth.

So if we know FTLSPEED, and pluto distance from earth than “We can CALCULATE How fast Joker can get to Relay Charon”with FTL SPEED!

FTL SPEED = 1 314 000 000KM/s

Pluto Distance from the earth = 5 700 000 000KM

5 700 000 000 km : 1 314 000 000KM = 4,33

4,33 seconds that much take journey with FTL SPEED from earth to Pluto and our CHARON RELAY.

So Joker maybe have the chance to escape BUT only in theory!

Why? I explain THIS.

Joker was fighting with reapers, because Normandy was the sword of the attack and main base of command so Joker can’t earlier escape from battle. Besides he would never leave THE COMANDOR SHEPARD! OUR HERO!

In last ending sequence we can see that  Normandy trying to run away from the wave, please notice that a wave is moves a lot faster than the ship itself (Because we seen as catching up with normandy wich is in FTL speed ) so wave's speed is deffinetely faster than FTl's or maybe even faster than Mass Relay speed. This proves that  the same wave would arrive to the Charon Relay before Normandy without a single doubt. Furthermore, the Relay would be destroyed sooner than Normandy get there.

Why? Because if wave is faster (we seen it in the movie), than the same wave arrive
to the relay in 2? 3 seconds?
 

So Joker would only have (how much?) ONE SECOND? FOR Activating the FTL SPEED? And where is time for deactivate FTL, and get to the Charon relay, because he can’t use Mass Relay when Using FTL SPEED!

And NOW!

If that was a simply escape without using Mass Relay, so Joker still only had How much time? From when he see the wave to activate FTL? One second? 2 seconds?

 

Even if he succeeded, he would not get very far because wave in a few second will catch him and Normandy will be destroyed. So how far he can get in just few seconds? There is no option that Joker/Normandy can reaches the New Planet. Because The distance which he would travel during that short time (1-10s? before wave catch him) would be like one and half of total solar system’s diameter or like 2. There is no option, that this is enough to reaches new planet in whole New system.

 

And the is one more thing, Where is the time for rescue a squad members which were running with me to this Blue Light, and they were hit by Reapers. They learn teleport? Or Joker learn how to hold time?

 
PLS
Bioware explain this, or pls change ending for better. I’m BIG FAN of MASS EFFECT’s Saga. But I can’t approve this ending without good explanation.

 

My Best Regards

(and I’m waiting for answer)

i counter your math with

:wizard: SPACE MAGIC :wizard:

biowares answer to all our complains about plotholes (sometimes also "a wizard did it")

[michal9o90]

DarthLaxian wrote...

well you might need to cut the airbags open in order do "shovel" in the bloody mess left after that - even there is even bloody mess left to be had

greetings LAX
ps: space magic sucks!
pps: i guess your love interest was garrus (he also calculates a whole lot of stuff ^^)

That's rigth, after Liara, and tali. Garrus THE BEST!

[Kulthar Drax]

Well done mate, well done. That sort of thing has always bugged me. And of course, there's the whole point that people say "but they still have FTL, they can still get home!"

Yeah sure, they can in theory. But for example, to go from Earth to Rannoch at ME's FTL speeds will take approximately 27 years at top speed given that they're on opposite sides of the Milky Way (which is roughly 120,000 light years across), leaving aside fuel stops, resupply, breakdowns, remaining reapers, having to go around/over/under the centre of the galaxy or other hostile lifeforms. Oh, and the wave wrecked all their FTL drives to begin with, and the Sol system has very little natural eezo supplies.

[devSin]

Yes, space magic defies all the laws of physics. Your calculations cannot truly represent the majesty of authorial fiat.

[count_4]

Probably been said but Normandy was likely hit in the Mass Effect tunnel, not FTL*. We have no idea how fast the wave travels in regular space but lets assume it's the speed of light as it is a pure electromagnetic pulse.
If Joker reacts fast enough (or has some time before the pulse goes out), he'd be able to get a slight head start and, considering he's flying with 5x speed of light, to reach the relay almost half a minute before the pulse.** He still has to drop out and lock onto the relay so we can assume the wave enters the relay shortly after the Normandy.
The rest can be seen in the video.

* The reason the Normandy isn't hit in FTL is simple physics: A Mass Effect core can help propel a vessel with FTL speed but a simple energy wave is still bound to the laws of physics - speed of light is the maximum, no way to catch up to the Normandy outside the relays.

** Edit: Actually he doesn't even need a headstart. The wave does not damage vessels in mid-flight. He can actually catch up to the wave and still outrun it to the relay. Would be even weirder though as he has no need to do that once the wave is over as it obviously didn't do anything. Unless he knows the relays blow up but why would he leave in that case? Lot of speculation from everyone I guess...

Another edit: Unless of course the Citadel was just emitting the wave and triggered the Charon Relay via Mass effect-based transfer. In that case energy travelled faster than light in regular space...seriously, do the guys at BioWare themselves even know what the hell they were writing there?

Modifié par count_4, 20 mars 2012 - 11:16 .

[Xivai]

A smart topic. Compelling evidence. Hard numbers. I'm not very good at math, but I can appreciate fine work like this. Good job. Now we know for sure it's very unlikely to happen.

[tfKR3W]

to many numbers! my brain!

[GoblinSapper]

Science yo

[michal9o90]

count_4 wrote...

Probably been said but Normandy was likely hit in the Mass Effect tunnel, not FTL*. We have no idea how fast the wave travels in regular space but lets assume it's the speed of light as it is a pure electromagnetic pulse.
If Joker reacts fast enough (or has some time before the pulse goes out), he'd be able to get a slight head start and, considering he's flying with 5x speed of light, to reach the relay almost half a minute before the pulse.** He still has to drop out and lock onto the relay so we can assume the wave enters the relay shortly after the Normandy.
The rest can be seen in the video.

* The reason the Normandy isn't hit in FTL is simple physics: A Mass Effect core can help propel a vessel with FTL speed but a simple energy wave is still bound to the laws of physics - speed of light is the maximum, no way to catch up to the Normandy outside the relays.

** Edit: Actually he doesn't even need a headstart. The wave does not damage vessels in mid-flight. He can actually catch up to the wave and still outrun it to the relay. Would be even weirder though as he has no need to do that. Unless he knows the relays blow up but why would he leave in that case? Lot of speculation from everyone I guess...

And besides it, JOKER NEVER WOULD LEFT SHEPARD, so even if he start running, i think that can only be after seen this wave from the crucible. So still i have RIGHT! HOLD THE LINE ! xD

Modifié par michal9o90, 20 mars 2012 - 11:14 .

[Dockerr]

A few assumptions you made:

- The shockwave from the crucible was a constant velocity, and was the same the speed of the shockwave through the mass relay.
In fact, we see the wavefront travelling across the surface of the earth in a few seconds, but the same wave travels across london relatively slowly (destroying big ben on the way, maybe)
The fact that the wave changed speed between shots means that artist license is being employed rather than hard science.

- Also: you're treating the FTL flight as if it conforms with current physics (in fact classical newtonian physics) rather than relativity (which would dictate that from normandy's reference frame, the FTL flight would take no time at all) or fictional space magic physics.

Whichever way you look at it, it means that Joker must have set off for the mass relay before you picked your favourite colour, and indeed just as you made your laser run.

Cheers, Joker.

Modifié par Dockerr, 20 mars 2012 - 11:17 .

[Leafs43]

In solar systems I have always assumed they used speed about equivalent to speed of light because once you break the speed of light barrier, your eezo cores kick in and drain extremely fast.

I mean if thats the case, it takes about 4 hours to get to Pluto from Earth.

And when in solar systems, you have to worry about things like gravitational pull from planetary bodies.  Dropping your mass below zero could have devasating effects if you get too close to a planet.

Modifié par Leafs43, 20 mars 2012 - 11:21 .

[wheelierdan]

this is incredible, thank you so much for sharing.

[AlCord]

Well as someone already said, I do not think you can use FTL speed in a solar system because of all the possible traffic there... You can use FTL speed only between solar system travelling.

I can remember that Joker said in ME1 that they approach the Mu Relay in 2 hrs. This is definatly too much for FTL speed and also too much for Mass Relay speed.

[Janus382]

 Bravo!  Hope this stays close to page 1.
Any way you cut it, it seems Joker bailed on you (after 'ing your whole crew to the Normandy) probably around the time you started limping to your RGB endings.  Ridiculous!

[wheelierdan]

could you do the same sort of calculations about how long it would take for the stranded ships to return to home systems? there has been debate over whether that would be feasible.

[alexcarter]

count_4 wrote...

Probably been said but Normandy was likely hit in the Mass Effect tunnel, not FTL*. We have no idea how fast the wave travels in regular space but lets assume it's the speed of light as it is a pure electromagnetic pulse.
If Joker reacts fast enough (or has some time before the pulse goes out), he'd be able to get a slight head start and, considering he's flying with 5x speed of light, to reach the relay almost half a minute before the pulse.** He still has to drop out and lock onto the relay so we can assume the wave enters the relay shortly after the Normandy.
The rest can be seen in the video.

* The reason the Normandy isn't hit in FTL is simple physics: A Mass Effect core can help propel a vessel with FTL speed but a simple energy wave is still bound to the laws of physics - speed of light is the maximum, no way to catch up to the Normandy outside the relays.

** Edit: Actually he doesn't even need a headstart. The wave does not damage vessels in mid-flight. He can actually catch up to the wave and still outrun it to the relay. Would be even weirder though as he has no need to do that once the wave is over as it obviously didn't do anything. Unless he knows the relays blow up but why would he leave in that case? Lot of speculation from everyone I guess...

Another edit: Unless of course the Citadel was just emitting the wave and triggered the Charon Relay via Mass effect-based transfer. In that case energy travelled faster than light in regular space...seriously, do the guys at BioWare themselves even know what the hell they were writing there?

assuming the wave travels in normal light speed, it would take about 4 hours to reach charon relay, but this doesn't seem to be the case as evidenced by its galactic propagation

[michal9o90]

Dockerr wrote...

A few assumptions you made:

- The shockwave from the crucible was a constant velocity, and was the same the speed of the shockwave through the mass relay.
In fact, we see the wavefront travelling across the surface of the earth in a few seconds, but the same wave travels across london relatively slowly (destroying big ben on the way, maybe)
The fact that the wave changed speed between shots means that artist license is being employed rather than hard science.

- Also: you're treating the FTL flight as if it conforms with current physics (in fact classical newtonian physics) rather than relativity (which would dictate that from normandy's reference frame, the FTL flight would take no time at all) or fictional space magic physics.

Whichever way you look at it, it means that Joker must have set off for the mass relay before you picked your favourite colour, and indeed just as you made your laser run.

Cheers, Joker.

I agree but my goal was only prove that ending is illogical, with this what i saw and what i knew aboutME3, besides, if you didn't recognize i think this scene after crucible atack, was in  SLOW MOTION, so that is why you seen slower wave. And second Besides, pls try notice this, that even Bioware used the current real physics to creat this universe in ME at least they were trying

I repeat my only goal was to prove THIS ENDING is ILLOGICAL even FOR A GAME , where we can manipulate the physics.

Modifié par michal9o90, 20 mars 2012 - 11:33 .

[Zing Freelancer]

I don't think explain THAT is possible.