319 réponses à ce sujet

[MassFrank]

But that means that . . . oh no I've gone cross eyed.

[michal9o90]

alexcarter wrote...

michal9o90 wrote...

@alexcarter normandy even can't land there because in a second reapers will destroy her.

now you are also... "speculating"   and a moment ago you were still saying normandy was still in the thick of the fight, so why afraid of getting in closer? 

@alexcarter well you have point, but in some way i have right too? don't you think? I'm not gonna force everyone to believe that my all theory is right, but i think, almost all gamers will agree ending is illogical in all the way. Like FTL using in solar system WTF????:blink: Hmm maybe normandy have magic shields which defending from collision with asteroid. ect. ect. See if we try explain one thing there is another which is illogical, and again, and again close circle.

I think we deserve for better ending.  ehhhhhh sh*t I'm starting crying xD

[jumpingkaede]

alexcarter wrote...

well, it is not just him, but also the whole crew on normandy, the Shep squad members, and, HIS GIRLFRIEND, too. Besides, in the synthesis and destroy endings, the citadel blows up, and since they probably know Shep is there (assuming the radio communication between Hackett and Shep wasn't jammed) and almost certainly dead in the explosion, even less reason to stick out any longer. Admittedly, this still leaves the case of control, but my argument about   the scary beams and survival instincts still stand. 

Point 1.  Citadel doesn't blow up until afterward.  See "blast" going out at 0:07, beam shooting out at 1:00, and Citadel exploding at 1:10.  So the explanation that he knows or suspects anything about the Citadel being blown up and the consequences before he turns coward fails right there.

www.youtube.com/watch

Point 2.  Whether the crew on the Normandy is there or not is immaterial since (a) Joker is the pilot and makes the decision on whether to GTFO -- I highly doubt he took a poll and ( the crew was on the Normandy in every previous instance (save the Collector Ship attack) as well.

Modifié par jumpingkaede, 21 mars 2012 - 05:05 .

[michal9o90]

alexcarter wrote...

jumpingkaede wrote...

alexcarter wrote...

"At that time, no one knows exactly what's gonna happen when the citadel goes up in a flame, or when it gives off those really strange lights with strange energy readings, but Joker surely still remembers what's gonna happen when a mass relay goes up in a flame, hell, they barely made it out last time, and he also knows citadel is a mass relay, so as much as he would like to stick it out for his commander, survival instinct just kicks in and drives him to GTFO, and probably same as everyone else there with an FTL drive. 

lol that's the only explanation really but it sucks.  

"Joker's survival instincts kicked in and he turned coward at the last moment."  

Joker, the best pilot in the Alliance fleet.

Joker, who flew vanguard for the Fifth Fleet against Sovereign in the Battle of the Citadel.  

Joker, who refused to abandon the Normandy even as it was being destroyed by the Collector Ship.

Joker, who piloted the SR2 Normandy through the Omega 4 Relay that no ship had ever successfully navigated before.    

Joker, who again flew vanguard for the Alliance Fleet in the Battle for Earth.  The final battle; where the only possible options were to win or die.  Die there in fight or die afterward when the Reapers destroy the galaxy.

That Joker.

Survival instincts kicked in.

And he decided to GTFO.

well, it is not just him, but also the whole crew on normandy, the Shep squad members, and, HIS GIRLFRIEND, too. Besides, in the synthesis and destroy endings, the citadel blows up, and since they probably know Shep is there (assuming the radio communication between Hackett and Shep wasn't jammed) and almost certainly dead in the explosion, even less reason to stick out any longer. Admittedly, this still leaves the case of control, but my argument about   the scary beams and survival instincts still stand. 

There was no communication between shepard and rest after he was woke up by the kid, and like we saw in much ME3 to contact with other you need use hand to *click* some in your ear. So joker can't knew what is going on, so i think he was still close to erth when see crucible atack and i think after this there is no time for escaping. BUT this is only my opinion.

[alexcarter]

michal9o90 wrote...

alexcarter wrote...

michal9o90 wrote...

@alexcarter normandy even can't land there because in a second reapers will destroy her.

now you are also... "speculating"   and a moment ago you were still saying normandy was still in the thick of the fight, so why afraid of getting in closer? 

@alexcarter well you have point, but in some way i have right too? don't you think? I'm not gonna force everyone to believe that my all theory is right, but i think, almost all gamers will agree ending is illogical in all the way. Like FTL using in solar system WTF????:blink: Hmm maybe normandy have magic shields which defending from collision with asteroid. ect. ect. See if we try explain one thing there is another which is illogical, and again, and again close circle.

I think we deserve for better ending.  ehhhhhh sh*t I'm starting crying xD

@
michal9o90 
I'm not trying to force you to accept or even like the ending, it is just when you employ science to prove your point, especially in a sci-fi setup,  you should be aware that there is bound to be some counter-points coming, and NOT without merits, just like your points. 

And was it ever explained why they are able to travel via mass relay without being afraid of collision with all those astral bodies, or even just astral dusts,  along the vast distance between relays? 

and for the record, I understand you are upset about the ending, heck, there are things I don't like about it, too, but the reason I'm doing this is just, I'm trying to make sense of it, and not just relies on 

[michal9o90]

Well..... make sens...... of that BIG ILLOGICAL ENDING?? I think you go wrong way, it's harder than base on science and prove to Bioware they need to change ending HAHA

About Mass relay, you know what i thought playing in ME1..... that Mass relay is teleport, because how can mako get from Ilos to citadel.

Modifié par michal9o90, 21 mars 2012 - 05:26 .

[alexcarter]

jumpingkaede wrote...

alexcarter wrote...

well, it is not just him, but also the whole crew on normandy, the Shep squad members, and, HIS GIRLFRIEND, too. Besides, in the synthesis and destroy endings, the citadel blows up, and since they probably know Shep is there (assuming the radio communication between Hackett and Shep wasn't jammed) and almost certainly dead in the explosion, even less reason to stick out any longer. Admittedly, this still leaves the case of control, but my argument about   the scary beams and survival instincts still stand. 

Point 1.  Citadel doesn't blow up until afterward.  See "blast" going out at 0:07, beam shooting out at 1:00, and Citadel exploding at 1:10.  So the explanation that he knows or suspects anything about the Citadel being blown up and the consequences before he turns coward fails right there.

www.youtube.com/watch

Point 2.  Whether the crew on the Normandy is there or not is immaterial since (a) Joker is the pilot and makes the decision on whether to GTFO -- I highly doubt he took a poll and ( the crew was on the Normandy in every previous instance (save the Collector Ship attack) as well.

I didn't base my "speculation" of Joker's departure on whether citadel blows or not, or on whether those ppl are onboard normandy, I base it on the the fact that Joker sees the energy waves coming, and/or the beam shooting, and then I "speculate" he infers that something bad (perhaps on the scale of the Alpha relay) is gonna happen, so he decides to GTFO, whether citadel blows up or not or whether he considers for those ppl serve only as further  reason. 

[BluKardinal]

War Asset Acquired: Mathematics

[jumpingkaede]

alexcarter wrote...

jumpingkaede wrote...

alexcarter wrote...

well, it is not just him, but also the whole crew on normandy, the Shep squad members, and, HIS GIRLFRIEND, too. Besides, in the synthesis and destroy endings, the citadel blows up, and since they probably know Shep is there (assuming the radio communication between Hackett and Shep wasn't jammed) and almost certainly dead in the explosion, even less reason to stick out any longer. Admittedly, this still leaves the case of control, but my argument about   the scary beams and survival instincts still stand. 

Point 1.  Citadel doesn't blow up until afterward.  See "blast" going out at 0:07, beam shooting out at 1:00, and Citadel exploding at 1:10.  So the explanation that he knows or suspects anything about the Citadel being blown up and the consequences before he turns coward fails right there.

www.youtube.com/watch

Point 2.  Whether the crew on the Normandy is there or not is immaterial since (a) Joker is the pilot and makes the decision on whether to GTFO -- I highly doubt he took a poll and ( the crew was on the Normandy in every previous instance (save the Collector Ship attack) as well.

I didn't base my "speculation" of Joker's departure on whether citadel blows or not, or on whether those ppl are onboard normandy, I base it on the the fact that Joker sees the energy waves coming, and/or the beam shooting, and then I "speculate" he infers that something bad (perhaps on the scale of the Alpha relay) is gonna happen, so he decides to GTFO, whether citadel blows up or not or whether he considers for those ppl serve only as further  reason. 

So again, your reasoning is only that saw the energy waves coming and decided to gtfo.

[alexcarter]

michal9o90 wrote...

alexcarter wrote...

jumpingkaede wrote...

alexcarter wrote...

"At that time, no one knows exactly what's gonna happen when the citadel goes up in a flame, or when it gives off those really strange lights with strange energy readings, but Joker surely still remembers what's gonna happen when a mass relay goes up in a flame, hell, they barely made it out last time, and he also knows citadel is a mass relay, so as much as he would like to stick it out for his commander, survival instinct just kicks in and drives him to GTFO, and probably same as everyone else there with an FTL drive. 

lol that's the only explanation really but it sucks.  

"Joker's survival instincts kicked in and he turned coward at the last moment."  

Joker, the best pilot in the Alliance fleet.

Joker, who flew vanguard for the Fifth Fleet against Sovereign in the Battle of the Citadel.  

Joker, who refused to abandon the Normandy even as it was being destroyed by the Collector Ship.

Joker, who piloted the SR2 Normandy through the Omega 4 Relay that no ship had ever successfully navigated before.    

Joker, who again flew vanguard for the Alliance Fleet in the Battle for Earth.  The final battle; where the only possible options were to win or die.  Die there in fight or die afterward when the Reapers destroy the galaxy.

That Joker.

Survival instincts kicked in.

And he decided to GTFO.

well, it is not just him, but also the whole crew on normandy, the Shep squad members, and, HIS GIRLFRIEND, too. Besides, in the synthesis and destroy endings, the citadel blows up, and since they probably know Shep is there (assuming the radio communication between Hackett and Shep wasn't jammed) and almost certainly dead in the explosion, even less reason to stick out any longer. Admittedly, this still leaves the case of control, but my argument about   the scary beams and survival instincts still stand. 

There was no communication between shepard and rest after he was woke up by the kid, and like we saw in much ME3 to contact with other you need use hand to *click* some in your ear. So joker can't knew what is going on, so i think he was still close to erth when see crucible atack and i think after this there is no time for escaping. BUT this is only my opinion.

huh, then why can Shep hear Hackett in the first place? He didn't "click" it, either...
And as I said, even after crucible attacks or beams out, the beams still leaves enough time for Joker to get out, but then again, this is only my "speculation".  

[michal9o90]

alexcarter wrote...

huh, then why can Shep hear Hackett in the first place? He didn't "click" it, either...
And as I said, even after crucible attacks or beams out, the beams still leaves enough time for Joker to get out, but then again, this is only my "speculation".  

LOL man to receive a signal you dont need click anything, (in CB-radio you need some click to hear others? NO), only to talk you need as police click button, so its obvious shepard can hear hacket.

And how can be still the time for it? You telling me, this wave was that slow? Even if we assume that the speed of wave was like in FIlm, then you see how fast it reach nearby reapers in space. If joker start escaping after saw this wave, i think he have
over a dozen seconds to activate FTL. At least maybe 20-30s?

Modifié par michal9o90, 21 mars 2012 - 05:46 .

[alexcarter]

jumpingkaede wrote...

alexcarter wrote...

jumpingkaede wrote...

alexcarter wrote...

well, it is not just him, but also the whole crew on normandy, the Shep squad members, and, HIS GIRLFRIEND, too. Besides, in the synthesis and destroy endings, the citadel blows up, and since they probably know Shep is there (assuming the radio communication between Hackett and Shep wasn't jammed) and almost certainly dead in the explosion, even less reason to stick out any longer. Admittedly, this still leaves the case of control, but my argument about   the scary beams and survival instincts still stand. 

Point 1.  Citadel doesn't blow up until afterward.  See "blast" going out at 0:07, beam shooting out at 1:00, and Citadel exploding at 1:10.  So the explanation that he knows or suspects anything about the Citadel being blown up and the consequences before he turns coward fails right there.

www.youtube.com/watch

Point 2.  Whether the crew on the Normandy is there or not is immaterial since (a) Joker is the pilot and makes the decision on whether to GTFO -- I highly doubt he took a poll and ( the crew was on the Normandy in every previous instance (save the Collector Ship attack) as well.

I didn't base my "speculation" of Joker's departure on whether citadel blows or not, or on whether those ppl are onboard normandy, I base it on the the fact that Joker sees the energy waves coming, and/or the beam shooting, and then I "speculate" he infers that something bad (perhaps on the scale of the Alpha relay) is gonna happen, so he decides to GTFO, whether citadel blows up or not or whether he considers for those ppl serve only as further  reason. 

So again, your reasoning is only that saw the energy waves coming and decided to gtfo.

On its own, it is good enough reason to gtfo, think about it this way: this is probably a supernova in the making, after which the whole sol system is gonna be wiped clean, not even a trace of Shep is to be recovered, why would you still stick out? 
I can be even more generous, Joker can even wait till intel coming in that the reapers are down or flying away, depending on the ending of your choice, mission accomplished, why are you still staying, what with the risk of being fried alive? 

[JPfanner]

The comm buoys imply that waves and energy can be transmitted along a mass effect corridor just like physical mass. And they would have to be anyway for the space magic to transmit along the relay system.

So the energy beam from the Citadel can easily reach the Charon Relay instantly, because the Citadel itself is a mass relay and capable of opening a mass effect corridor to the Charon Relay for that transmission.

The localized expanding field from each relay (including the Citadel) can travel at whatever speed and have nothing to do with the relay beams transmitted instantly between one relay and the next.

Actually if the expanding localised fields travel somewhat slower than light and the relay beam is jacketed to instantly hit the relay then that means the Normandy had to escape the Sol system using conventional FTL because there would be TWO expanding fields, one from the Citadel and one from the Charon Relay converging on each other. Which I guess you could escape by going FTL perpendicular to the orbital plane maybe. Assuming the drive safeties allowed you to engage FTL in the very congested area that Earth space would be at that time.

But if the localised fields expand slower than light, then they couldn't overtake the Normandy in FTL. And the Normandy can't be overtaken using a relay, because that transit time is instant.

Seriously I don't think there is any way to explain the whole Normandy scene unless you're the kind of person who has a favorite flavor of crayon.

[alexcarter]

michal9o90 wrote...

alexcarter wrote...

huh, then why can Shep hear Hackett in the first place? He didn't "click" it, either...
And as I said, even after crucible attacks or beams out, the beams still leaves enough time for Joker to get out, but then again, this is only my "speculation".  

LOL man to receive a signal you dont need click anything, (in CB-radio you need some click to hear others? NO), to talk you need as police click button, so its obvious shepard can hear hacket.

And how can be still the time for it? You telling me, this wave was that slow? Even if we assume that he speed of wave was like in FIlm, then you see how fast it reach nearby reapers

well, when Shep comes up the citadel, he didn't "click" to talk to Anderson, either. Franly, whether Heckette knows via comm if he's surely there is not really important...  the citadel opens up, and the crucible is in place, and it's got to be done by someone from our side, not by the reapers, right? And who else would it be? ?

If you can SEE the wave coming there, it can't be running  faster than light, especially in such a small scale. And the reapers nearby were also moving in a speed comparable to the wave, are you saying those reapers are also moving faster than light? 

[michal9o90]

JPfanner wrote...
So the energy beam from the Citadel can easily reach the Charon Relay instantly, because the Citadel itself is a mass relay and capable of opening a mass effect corridor to the Charon Relay for that transmission.

This! I love you xD

[I RJay I]

So you're telling me that the ending was not logical? Well, poop.

Let's just hope that when Ray said they would provide further explanation of the endings, they take this into consideration.

[alexcarter]

JPfanner wrote...

So the energy beam from the Citadel can easily reach the Charon Relay instantly, because the Citadel itself is a mass relay and capable of opening a mass effect corridor to the Charon Relay for that transmission.

if it is instant, why can you SEE the beam RUNNING from one point to charon relay and THEN activating it? by definition, if something is faster than light, you can't see it coming and exerting its influence thereafter, it has to be BEFORE you see it. Not to mention on the galactic perspective, they are running at great speed (great indeed, thousands of light years per second, which still baffles me), but still not instant

[michal9o90]

Man you didn't remember its film? How can you do effects for fans eye not using some of not logical scenes? And we base on fact like, normandy running, and wave catching up, like, this instant connection bettwen relay ect. For prove it

MASS EFFECT 1, TRAVEL FROM ILOS TO CITADEL! you think how it was possible get that fast there. It is an instant.

In your ****ing way i can say, normandy didnt run in FTL or Mass realay speed, because i saw her, so still noramndy cant reach new planet. END OF Discussion!

Modifié par michal9o90, 21 mars 2012 - 06:04 .

[Vikali]

Who's to say the Normandy wasn't in the line of sight when the beam was travelling to the Mass Relay?

The mission was deemed a failure. For all we know, Joker could have picked up the remaining surviving squad. (Not that I believe any of this, but for argument's sake.) And we don't know that other ships weren't overtaken by this either? The Normandy is supposed to be like the Mclaren to all the the other Honda ships. It probably could have been the only one capable of outrunning it for as long as it did.

Also the the poster above, we never witness the travel in the mass relays. We only ever witness the entrance and exit.

Modifié par KitePolaris, 21 mars 2012 - 06:04 .

[alexcarter]

 frankly, this whole FTL shi*t really bugs the hell out of me... as a physics major, I can easily list a bucket of ILLOGICAL things when you do FTL... but well, 

[Quintus Kessler]

SoraStrife wrote...

*looks at equations*

Well. ****ing. Done.

No seriously, no sarcasm.

Well done.

[alexcarter]

michal9o90 wrote...

Man you didn't remember its film? How can you do effects for fans eye not using some of not logical scenes? And we base on fact like, normandy running, and wave catching up, like, this instant connection bettwen relay ect. For prove it

MASS EFFECT 1, TRAVEL FROM ILOS TO CITADEL! you think how it was possible get that fast there. It is an instant.

In your ****ing way i can say, normandy didnt run in FTL or Mass realay speed, because i saw her, so still noramndy cant reach new planet. END OF Discussion!

yep, so i imagine bioware would say, when we do this ftl travel film, which is sooooo not logical and seems purely , you didn't complain, why are you complaining now we are using some  to help Joker run away? 

[JPfanner]

alexcarter wrote...

JPfanner wrote...

So the energy beam from the Citadel can easily reach the Charon Relay instantly, because the Citadel itself is a mass relay and capable of opening a mass effect corridor to the Charon Relay for that transmission.

if it is instant, why can you SEE the beam RUNNING from one point to charon relay and THEN activating it? by definition, if something is faster than light, you can't see it coming and exerting its influence thereafter, it has to be BEFORE you see it. Not to mention on the galactic perspective, they are running at great speed (great indeed, thousands of light years per second, which still baffles me), but still not instant

Because you're comparing cinematics to codex entries.  Cinematics are designed to be visually appealing.  Like the space battle scenes are cool looking, but nowhere representative of what space combat would be like, even considering the sci-fi elements.

That galactic map sequence with the beam running between relays and the expanding circles on the relays is just a representation of what is happening conveyed in a cinematic style.  It is to show something nifty to the player and the player alone.  It isn't from any kind of in-universe perspective.

[Fishy]

You talk a lot about Joker .. But Joker had someone named EDI with him .. The Wave blast was not instantaneous which give EDI plenty of time .. The Normandy also the only ship with AI.

Also the distance between Earth and Pluto is not always the same.

[P47 ace]

Mass relay transit is not intsantious, while yes it is faster than light in no way is it a teliporter.

Teliporters break mass down into small pieces the size of light photons and the send them to a resiver where they are reasimboled into their oringnal form.

Mass relays envelope an object in a very powerful mass effect field, and reduce its mass to effectly 0 then accerating it to around 100x the speed of light, it still takes time to get from A to B.

The time is in mins going from a place like Sol to Arctures which are right next to each other, a hour or more for longer travel.
Also FTL is strait line travel you can't make turns, when you get to the other side of a relay connetion you have to jump out of FTL and then renter to get to the next link.