54 réponses à ce sujet

[Silentplanet]

It's really difficult already, believe me.. I'd be half as far (on normal). It's almost like each battle is the challenge and not the actual area itself.

[Varenus Luckmann]

Stick668 wrote...

Keswyn wrote...
It does seem to be the case that mana-regen, life-regen and team member revival are all automatic. The idea, from what I've gathered, is that this is meant to make the game more enjoyable and less frustrating.

Varenus Luckmann wrote...
I wonder how long it'll take before we've got games where you start with immortality, to deal with all that frustrating and annoying losing of the game.

It's entirely possible I'm splitting hairs here, but I have this weird notion there's a difference between

1) minimizing redundant repetitive clicky time-sink chores

and

2) removing all challenge from the actual gameplay.

Call me crazy.

There's a difference, yes. But that's the direction we're moving in.

[Niten Ryu]

Nowadays gamers get frustrated very easely and can't handle anything that might prevent 'em from playing their own way. Thus only solution is to make death (and any other challenge) trivial. Bioware made right call on this one.

[Pathalone]

Catalina_Storm wrote...

Maybe people should play the game first before complaining about how easy it is? Just a thought.

Agreed.

[SamoanX]

Keswyn wrote...

It does seem to be the case that mana-regen, life-regen and team member revival are all automatic. The idea, from what I've gathered, is that this is meant to make the game more enjoyable and less frustrating. How much did you enjoy having to replay really tough battles in BG because Aerie/Jaheira/Viconia got disintegrated? I sure didn't.
Plus, you can bet that long dungeons (etc) are going to be challenging enough with these settings, taking them off would just make those areas unplayable. Or at least, not at all enjoyable.

And yeah, bumping after 20 minutes isn't necessary. Why not take a decaf coffee break, watch TV, play another game, maybe even try and find the answer to your question by reading through other posts, or doing literally anything else for a half hour. It may be surprising, but there isn't always someone willing to drop everything to answer your question right away.

Your PMSing pretty hard huh?

[SamoanX]

Keswyn wrote...

It does seem to be the case that mana-regen, life-regen and team member revival are all automatic. The idea, from what I've gathered, is that this is meant to make the game more enjoyable and less frustrating. How much did you enjoy having to replay really tough battles in BG because Aerie/Jaheira/Viconia got disintegrated? I sure didn't.
Plus, you can bet that long dungeons (etc) are going to be challenging enough with these settings, taking them off would just make those areas unplayable. Or at least, not at all enjoyable.

And yeah, bumping after 20 minutes isn't necessary. Why not take a decaf coffee break, watch TV, play another game, maybe even try and find the answer to your question by reading through other posts, or doing literally anything else for a half hour. It may be surprising, but there isn't always someone willing to drop everything to answer your question right away.

Your PMSing pretty hard huh?

[Kempeorlaxan]

Keyser Soeze wrote...

I read this in another forum:

"Auto-health-regeneration, auto-mana-regeneration, and auto-resurrection would be understandable if they were optional (and off by default), and even then only available on "Very Easy".

The fact that they can't be toggled off and are present on all difficulty levels conveys another message."



I havent noticed this yet, but is it true that even when your comrades have gone down they get up after some time?

This sounda totaly retarded...

If this is true i hope the first mod for this game removes this or makes it optinoal.

I don't see anything wrong with that.

[Wardka]

There's a big difference between disintegration and plain ol' death, though. And the main reason you'd reload when someone died in Baldur's Gate was because all their stuff ended up on the ground and picking it all up and reequipping it was a chore

[Keyser Soeze]

I didnt even see this thread in the forum so i wanted to see if it worked or if something was wrong.



This forum is very weird and bad imo so...



Well thx i guess the guy who wrote that meant in between battles, i got the impression that they got back to life DURING the battle. That would have been terrible



Well off to play some more.

[Aldandil]

Niten Ryu wrote...

Nowadays gamers get frustrated very easely and can't handle anything that might prevent 'em from playing their own way. Thus only solution is to make death (and any other challenge) trivial. Bioware made right call on this one.

Yes, that's right. Word on the street is that this game is barely challenging at all. Quite trivial, as a matter of fact.

[nordrian]

Resurrection spells tend to create weird situations, like, if there's a murder and that you have a priest who can resurrect, why not just resurrecting the dead man, and ask him who attacked him? It creates a lots of history holes to have such a thing, and it would be a bit weird that the hero always arrives too late to resurrect.

[Blackstream]

Think of it this way guys. Doing things this way allows bioware to ramp up the challenge. Imagine if every battle in BG2 force you to use all or most of your resources to win. Ideally fun, innovative ways of using said resources, but pretty much all your resouces. And by the end of the combat, your mages have used most of their spells, most of your party members are low health or dropped, and you're sitting there going WOOOOOOO. And then you realize that you're out of spells and have to rememorize heals and rezes. For every battle.  Of course when I played bg2, I just saved before every battle just in case. I'm relishing skipping that reload step and just playing the game.

I'd be okay with a hardcore, no rez difficulty mind you for the insane people, but something tells me that in the normal base game, you will be using those injury kits a lot.

[jfunk]

People equating the lack of perma-death (or even having to manually rez) to immortality are missing the point.



A battle can still be difficult to the point where you will fail without using a good strategy in this model. The point is simply that if you ARE successful in winning the battle, you don't have a greatly reduced amount of downtime before you can continue the game. I cannot imagine why you think this makes the game easier.



The battle itself is no easier simply because you can continue on after it with 1 minute of "recoup" time instead of 4 minutes of "recoup" time. Changing your spells, resting to memorize them, changing them back, resting again, etc. is NOT HARD, it's tedious.



In fact, the argument could be made they can actually make the battles MORE difficult because they can be balanced with you only having to possibly survive with one character, where as previously they had the make the battles survivable with all characters intact to avoid alienating the non-hardcore.



Bottom line is nothing about this system changes the level of difficulty inherently, it merely reduces downtime. If all of your party goes down, you still "lose" and have to try again.

[jfunk]

People equating the lack of perma-death (or even having to manually rez) to immortality are missing the point. 

A battle can still be difficult to the point where you will fail without using a good strategy in this model.  The point is simply that if you ARE successful in winning the battle, you don't have a greatly reduced amount of downtime before you can continue the game.  I cannot imagine why you think this makes the game easier. 

The battle itself is no easier simply because you can continue on after it with 1 minute of "recoup" time instead of 4 minutes of "recoup" time.  Changing your spells, resting to memorize them, changing them back, resting again, etc. is NOT HARD, it's tedious.

In fact, the argument could be made they can actually make the battles MORE difficult because they can be balanced with you only having to possibly survive with one character, where as previously they had the make the battles survivable with all characters intact to avoid alienating the non-hardcore.

Bottom line is nothing about this system changes the level of difficulty inherently, it merely reduces downtime.  If all of your party goes down, you still "lose" and have to try again.

[Sadinar]

There's a difference, yes. But that's the direction we're moving in.

According to whom? From the replies it seems you are, at best, in the minority in your belief that tedious and repetative activity following each encounter equates to a challenging game. While on the other hand it seems clear the majority of your peers prefer a system where the combat itself is challenging and the tedium afterwards is reduced.

The reasons for the changes have been pointed out and thier lack of impact on difficulty fully explained, but I suppose someone always has to swin upstream.

Modifié par Sadinar, 04 novembre 2009 - 05:26 .

[DragoonKain3]

For the record, I'm one of the 'hardcore' players (I'm starting on Nightmare for crying out loud), but I welcome this 'feature'.



The SaGa series is one of the my favourite series because of this, as the series first started with auto-regen hp after battle, and eventually made its way with auto-regen mp (or jp/bp) in the end. Sure they have stories that look like dung to even the least Bioware can come up with, but auto-regen after battle is something I loved because it removed the downtime between battles. And considering I value gameplay/battles more than anything else, this element just made the games much more fun for me.



And for those who played any SaGa game, they will know that the game is already balanced in terms of auto-regen. Meaning that even with it, the game is already fricking hard, and I would assume DAO is balanced in this way as well, considering one of the major complaints is that easy mode is still too hard.



Besides, even in older RPG games like these, it practically had auto-regen as you could pretty much 'camp' wherever you wanted. This just removes the clicking and the wait time, so all in all its a change for the better.

[Bundin]

If you start every combat(-sequence) with full health/mana, the encounters will be balanced for a party with full health/mana. That could even mean that it will become slightly more difficult instead of easier, since you can't "compensate" by drinking pots like it's Diable 2. Play first, complain later.

[Nosuchluck]

How is regenerating after a fight any different from clicking on the rest button? Call me crazy but they seem identical. I'm sorry to say but the random creature encounters while resting sucked in Baldur's Gate.



It's not like in BG rez spells were hard to come by iether. I had two characters who could rez and I rarely got any member of my party disintegrated and even then I'd just reload. It's not like you have to live with the consequences of death. Considering DA is gonna have far more character interaction than BG ever did I don't know why people want party members to perma die while in combat. Are you really telling me you wouldn't just reload or rez them?

[The Dead Milkman]

Keyser Soeze wrote...

I read this in another forum:

"Auto-health-regeneration, auto-mana-regeneration, and auto-resurrection would be understandable if they were optional (and off by default), and even then only available on "Very Easy".

The fact that they can't be toggled off and are present on all difficulty levels conveys another message."



I havent noticed this yet, but is it true that even when your comrades have gone down they get up after some time?

This sounda totaly retarded...

If this is true i hope the first mod for this game removes this or makes it optinoal.

You sound totally retarded. Seriously do you imbecils buy games and sign up to the forums without even bothering to find out anything about the game at all?

[Vasharai]

I personally love the feature, it's not like your party regens health and mana at ridiculous rates in combat, or randomly come back to life during combat. They'll pop back up to life afterwards and regen health/mana faster out of combat, this makes it less frustrating and much less of a strain on your gold pouch as you don't have to worry about carrying around hundreds of potions everywhere you go to make sure you're ready for every fight.



I hate it when I'm playing games like Final Fantasy (Still love the series, just hate the way death and regen works) where 2 out of 3 of your party dies, they get 0 experience from the fight, then you have to waste 2 rez items and a relative amount of potions every time you come out of battle, and each time they die it gets worse as the less experience they get, the harder the game gets (Assuming you're not just grinding up).



That said, I plan to play on the hardest difficulty, so I'm sure I'll still have my share of frustration, but at least when I finish it, I'll have that rare feeling of satisfaction that most games refuse to give in recent years.

[SheffSteel]

derrrbl possst

Modifié par SheffSteel, 03 novembre 2009 - 09:31 .

[SheffSteel]

Okay, kids. Here's how we're going to do this.

I want everyone who thinks that the risk of being permanently killed is an essential part of a challenging RPG in Group A, and everyone who thinks that getting back up after the fight is okay/enjoyable to stand in Group B.
Right.
Group A: I want all of you to play the game as best you can, and when one of your characters gets knocked over, you're going to re-load your last saved game... because you lost. We're working on an honor system here, but since you take the game so seriously, I think you can be trusted.

Group B: enjoy the game.

[Quagga-esque]

The perfect solution  Sheffsteel - thank you
<insert applauding smilie here>

Thread/issue closed I think...

Modifié par Quagga-esque, 03 novembre 2009 - 09:14 .

[NinjaBoyGT]

To be honest I preferred this system far above the standard RPGs I've played before where I spent up to 99 percent of the game spamming standard attacks so that I could save my spells abilities for the inevitable boss confrontation or else waste all my money on items to restore my mana/stamina/whatever.



In DA:O you can afford to go all out using talents and spells knowing that about 10 seconds after the battle ends you'll be back to full. Of course in some of the larger battles I've fought so far you still need to manage your talents a bit sparingly.

[Duoglas]

Im one of the few that would prefer no auto-rez. It seems unrealistic (yeah I know its fantasy)/ spoils the immersion. I would rather spend an extra 10s after the fight to use a rod or scroll to raise one of my party than have them just pop up after being "killed".



Ideally this will be an option added to the game in a patch/ expansion or modded.