287 réponses à ce sujet

[Pelle6666]

DLC with an explanation please!

[Faded_Jeans]

Complistic wrote...

Because they got fooled and picked either synthesis or control. If they then admitted that the indoctrination theory was true, they'd be admitting they got tricked.

And no one willingly makes a fool of themselves.

Actually, that's what makes it really great writing, if it's true.  It's only crappy if there aren't any clues.  There were plenty of clues, and I still picked synthesis.  After all that time, I made the same choice that Saren did.  Brilliant!  Great writing, Bioware.

(If it's true)

[Abram730]

Fnork wrote...

You meet a Prothean VI on Thessia. What does it say when it meets Shepard ? What does it say when it meets Kai Leng ?

So you claim that the Prothean VI can see into the future.. please provide some reference for that one.. I'd like to ask it about ME4 or why it didn't warn the Protheans that the reapers were coming. Having such magical abilities to see into the future and all. /s

You know that the only ones claiming Shepard is indoctrinated before the end of the game are the those that oppose Indoctrination theory. The droolers.

Modifié par Abram730, 21 mars 2012 - 12:06 .

[thebigbad1013]

Faded_Jeans wrote...

Complistic wrote...

Because they got fooled and picked either synthesis or control. If they then admitted that the indoctrination theory was true, they'd be admitting they got tricked.

And no one willingly makes a fool of themselves.

Actually, that's what makes it really great writing, if it's true.  It's only crappy if there aren't any clues.  There were plenty of clues, and I still picked synthesis.  After all that time, I made the same choice that Saren did.  Brilliant!  Great writing, Bioware.

(If it's true)

This.

I'm somewhat ashamed to admit that I, despite feeling like something was off after Shepard woke up after Harbinger's blast, actually ended up picking synthesis as well. Then replayed the ending and picked destroy.

But yeah, IF it was intentional, then it is actually pretty brilliant.

[DESTRAUDO]

Sigh, all the plot conveniences in ending = indoctrination.

All plot conveniences in rest of game/games =  ignored.

bigbad1013 wrote...

Faded_Jeans wrote...

Complistic wrote...

Because they got fooled and picked either synthesis or control. If they then admitted that the indoctrination theory was true, they'd be admitting they got tricked.

And no one willingly makes a fool of themselves.

Actually, that's what makes it really great writing, if it's true.  It's only crappy if there aren't any clues.  There were plenty of clues, and I still picked synthesis.  After all that time, I made the same choice that Saren did.  Brilliant!  Great writing, Bioware.

(If it's true)

This.

I'm somewhat ashamed to admit that I, despite feeling like something was off after Shepard woke up after Harbinger's blast, actually ended up picking synthesis as well. Then replayed the ending and picked destroy.

But yeah, IF it was intentional, then it is actually pretty brilliant.

[Abram730]

Yep.. My name is Saren and this was my favorite mistake on the citadel.

[Cucobr]

Sparatus wrote...

Even with the Indoctrination theory it is still a bad ending.

no. Isnt a bad ending... is more a lack of ending.

[thebigbad1013]

Cucobr wrote...

Sparatus wrote...

Even with the Indoctrination theory it is still a bad ending.

no. Isnt a bad ending... is more a lack of ending.

Exactly. Indoctrinaton theory = the story is not over yet.

[GuardianAngel470]

Abram730 wrote...

Fnork wrote...

You meet a Prothean VI on Thessia. What does it say when it meets Shepard ? What does it say when it meets Kai Leng ?

So you claim that the Prothean VI can see into the future.. please provide some reference for that one.. I'd like to ask it about ME4 or why it didn't warn the Protheans that the reapers were coming. Having such magical abilities to see into the future and all. /s

You know that the only ones claiming Shepard is indoctrinated before the end of the game are the those that oppose Indoctrination theory. The droolers.

No future seeing necessary. First dream sequence is after Mars (I think). If that is evidence of indoctrination, then Shepard is Indoctrinated when he meets the Prothean VI. The VI doesn't say he's indoctrinated but it does for Kai Leng. Therefore Shepard isn't indoctrinated.

[GuardianAngel470]

bigbad1013 wrote...

Cucobr wrote...

Sparatus wrote...

Even with the Indoctrination theory it is still a bad ending.

no. Isnt a bad ending... is more a lack of ending.

Exactly. Indoctrinaton theory = the story is not over yet.

And that's why I don't want to believe it. Because it would mean I've been cheated and will soon be gouged for an ending to a game I've already paid full price for.

[Exolyps]

I don't see how one can not believe the theory. I mean, the grass after you get hit by the beam. Does that just magically appear from nowhere?

And about the choice. I wasn't sure which one to choose, I first walked up to the right path to see if I could tell which path it was. Once I was there my character got stuck and I figured I had no choice but to destroy.

[nitefyre410]

GuardianAngel470 wrote...

bigbad1013 wrote...

Cucobr wrote...

Sparatus wrote...

Even with the Indoctrination theory it is still a bad ending.

no. Isnt a bad ending... is more a lack of ending.

Exactly. Indoctrinaton theory = the story is not over yet.

And that's why I don't want to believe it. Because it would mean I've been cheated and will soon be gouged for an ending to a game I've already paid full price for.

 

^ This...

[thebigbad1013]

GuardianAngel470 wrote...

bigbad1013 wrote...

Cucobr wrote...

Sparatus wrote...

Even with the Indoctrination theory it is still a bad ending.

no. Isnt a bad ending... is more a lack of ending.

Exactly. Indoctrinaton theory = the story is not over yet.

And that's why I don't want to believe it. Because it would mean I've been cheated and will soon be gouged for an ending to a game I've already paid full price for.

If they charge for the ending (assuming all of this is true) then yeah, they are entering some murky waters to say the least. But if it's free I don't see a problem.

[Exolyps]

GuardianAngel470 wrote...

Abram730 wrote...

Fnork wrote...

You meet a Prothean VI on Thessia. What does it say when it meets Shepard ? What does it say when it meets Kai Leng ?

So you claim that the Prothean VI can see into the future.. please provide some reference for that one.. I'd like to ask it about ME4 or why it didn't warn the Protheans that the reapers were coming. Having such magical abilities to see into the future and all. /s

You know that the only ones claiming Shepard is indoctrinated before the end of the game are the those that oppose Indoctrination theory. The droolers.

No future seeing necessary. First dream sequence is after Mars (I think). If that is evidence of indoctrination, then Shepard is Indoctrinated when he meets the Prothean VI. The VI doesn't say he's indoctrinated but it does for Kai Leng. Therefore Shepard isn't indoctrinated.

Being party and fully indoctrinated isn't the same thing. Did you get the "From Ashes" DLC? If you did, then I'm sure you heard something about Sleeper Agents. If not, look it up.

[Exolyps]

GuardianAngel470 wrote...

bigbad1013 wrote...

Cucobr wrote...

Sparatus wrote...

Even with the Indoctrination theory it is still a bad ending.

no. Isnt a bad ending... is more a lack of ending.

Exactly. Indoctrinaton theory = the story is not over yet.

And that's why I don't want to believe it. Because it would mean I've been cheated and will soon be gouged for an ending to a game I've already paid full price for.

Even if you got the ending for free? In ME2 we got Zaeed and so on for free, to make sure people bought the game new and not second hand. What do we get in ME3? My theory is: the ending.

[Ukjack44]

If the Theory of indoctrination is true then Mass Effect has not ended unless BioWare ran out of money and want us to make things up in our heads.

Shep isn't actually indoctrinated yet but he undergoing the process of indoctrination. That is why the prothean VI did not call him on it until Kai Leng showed up

[GuardianAngel470]

Exolyps wrote...

GuardianAngel470 wrote...

bigbad1013 wrote...

Cucobr wrote...

Sparatus wrote...

Even with the Indoctrination theory it is still a bad ending.

no. Isnt a bad ending... is more a lack of ending.

Exactly. Indoctrinaton theory = the story is not over yet.

And that's why I don't want to believe it. Because it would mean I've been cheated and will soon be gouged for an ending to a game I've already paid full price for.

Even if you got the ending for free? In ME2 we got Zaeed and so on for free, to make sure people bought the game new and not second hand. What do we get in ME3? My theory is: the ending.

If we got it for free then having an ending in the final game released on Day One that is a fake ending is pointless and only serves to turn your fans against you for no real purpose.

If your theory hinges on the Space editions, that was a calculated PR stunt and as such could have easily released with fake endings while the game was released with the real one. Its the difference between pissing off a handful of gamers and pissing off millions.

It would still paint Bioware as out of touch with their fans. It would be a violation of trust for zero commercial benefit. They'd go from diabolically greedy to monumentally stupid. I still don't see how that's a good thing.

EDIT:

If you are arguing that Bioware ran out of time so had to have a placeholder ending that doesn't explain the supposedly extensive proof in favor of the Indoctrination theory and it doesn't explain why they couldn't delay the game again.

If Bioware were truly out of time, they should have gone to EA (if they didn't have the liberty themselves) and told them exactly why it was a smart business decision to delay the game. They should have outlined for EA why creating an unsatisfying ending would hurt them financially.

Not create some dubious explanation at the last minute. Still monumentally stupid.

Modifié par GuardianAngel470, 21 mars 2012 - 12:31 .

[Hunter_Wolf]

I wonder what would happen for someone choosing the synth or control. Would you take the roll of a squadmate mate you took and be in charge of putting a bullet in Shep's head under the Control option, or would he be a battered and bruised husk unable to do much of anything at all via the Synthesis ending - putting him out of his misery?

[Tinmachine]

No future seeing necessary. First dream sequence is after Mars (I think). If that is evidence of indoctrination, then Shepard is Indoctrinated when he meets the Prothean VI. The VI doesn't say he's indoctrinated but it does for Kai Leng. Therefore Shepard isn't indoctrinated.

Exactly.

Why do some people believe Shepard is indoctrinated AND that it was brilliantly implemented in the story?

Even the VI on Thessia considers Shepard clean and safe. There are therefore no signs of indoctrination even that late. If Shepard gets indoctrinated in the end, then Sovereign (the one and only Reaper guardian) was, by Harbinger standards, simply pathetic. Hello, blasted instanteous indoctrination? Why haven´t we used that on the Citadel all those years ago?

My refusal to believe that Shepard was indoctrinated stems partially from sheer disbelief that the writers would be so clumsy and shortsighted while implementing such a major feature. I hope they were planning for something big and were interrupted by the relentless cogs of the corporation. Maybe I´ve been indoctrinated by my long Bioware allegiance.

[Neizd]

IF and its a big IF they planned this because of different relases over world, and they wanted all players to have a chance to end the game together I can accept not giving us the full game.

[pharsti]

Because it would be a worse ending than what i got?
Because it would leave me with even more speculation than i am now (have to "speculate" the end of the game itself that way)?
Because it does leave me with an incomplete game that will never be complete?
Because its, very simply NOT TRUE?

There, some reasons, pick yours, pick all, pick more (i havent said even half of them ) or keep believing in it, dont throw out that its fact thou.

[Candidate 88766]

The IT is clearly wrong, as it would mean that Bioware deliberately shipped the game without its ending for nothing more than what essentially amounts to an 'April Fool's' joke. There's plenty of somewhat compelling evidence that it could be true, but common sense is enough to say that it clearly isn't what Bioware actually intended.

Even if the DLC is free, many people struggle to get hold of DLC. In East Europe and South America for example it can be much harder to get the DLC (I believe there are still countries that have never been given access to LotSB). Is Bioware just going to stick two fingers up to those people?

And the even bigger issue is why would Bioware do this?

Withholding the ending serves absolutely no purpose other than to any fans.

Do you really think that the writers would decide to ship the game unfinished and then refuse to do anything to pacify the fan and indeed media outrage just for the sake of saying "fooled you"?

Why do that?

Its utterly illogical and the fact that so many people are willing to believe that not only Bioware would do this, but that it would actually be a 'genius' move, is rather worrying.

Modifié par Candidate 88766, 21 mars 2012 - 12:31 .

[Mr.Snithums]

You know I would be completely fine and I'd call the indoctrination bit a brilliant piece of writing as well. However if it does turn out to be true it means they decided to not put a real ending to the game and I'm not sure if that makes the ending better or worse, I'm personally inclined to the latter. I find it incredibly insulting that if it does turn out to be true that I had to wait an extra month or more just to see the ending of the game, and on top of that we might have to pay for it. So sure, it would have been a great ending if there had been the real ending following the high EMS 'Destroy' ending, but there is not and until its proven true its just people grasping at straws.

[yummysoap]

I don't believe it because it screams fan denial to me and it just doesn't seem practical as something a game company as large as Bioware would pull at the end of a trilogy. It marginalizes two of the three decisions you can make and all the "evidence" amounts to huge reaches from the fans (I mean the whole "Illusive man is a renegade so why does his decision appear paragon" argument is ridiculous to me). I can see why people want to believe it but I can't, sorry.

That said I wouldn't be particularly upset if it was proven to be the case, even if Bioware only decided to make the indoctrination theory true after seeing fan backlash for the endings.

EDIT: I should restate, If IT theory ends up being true, it certainly wasn't initially planned to be true. I cannot think of a game company that would do something like knowing how many people it would ****** off and how it'd look to the gaming industry to have pre-planned a "THIS IS THE REAL ENDING FIFTEEN DOLLARS PLEASE" DLC. Given the responses Bioware has offered and the iPad documentary thing it seems like this was definitely the ending they decided on, no strings attached. However, given the overwhelmingly negative response, I wouldn't be surprised or unhappy if Bioware decide to make the IT theory canon now that the game is released.

Modifié par yummysoap, 21 mars 2012 - 12:45 .

[iiNOMADii]

People, the VI didn't see that Shepard was indoctrinated because he was FIGHTING it. TIM and Leng were indoctrinated, not in the process of indoctrination. Indoctrination isn't just a "Hey zap! You're instantly and forever indoctrinated, have a nice day!"

This is why the whole 'ending' with TIM and Anderson occurred, it was the Reaper's assaulting his mind to trick Shepard into indoctrination, and if you choose Control or Synthesis (I chose Synthesis the first time, I'll admit) they successfully indoctrinate Shepard. Notice his eyes on both of those endings:blue. Just like Saren and TIM. Destroy, however, is the option of fighting the Indoctrination, and THAT is why you wake up after it.

The Reapers can't just indoctrinate you, you have to choose it somehow. Being tricked seems to be an effective strategy since it frankly seems to have worked on many people (including me).