287 réponses à ce sujet

[GBGriffin]

kathic wrote...

Taleroth wrote...

I believe in theories that make falsifiable predictions. I give no credit to theories that establish all of reality is a lie, therefore anything supporting it is true, and anything disproving it is part of the lie.

QFT. Idoc theory occured because people could not cope with the idea that Bioware could write something bad.

Basically...yeah. Fans began scouring the data and looking for anything at all that could support the belief that BioWare simply wouldn't get sloppy with a rushed product and "do this".

Personally, I believe that the indoctrination theory is simply that: it's a theory, and a fan-made one at that. BioWare hasn't confirmed or denied it, but they've opened up suggestions for a better ending, which means they probably don't have something lined up already and were satisfied enough to launch the game as is. For me, Final Hours further confirmed this, where they admitted that indoctrination was on the table, but ultimately scrapped it.

TBH, people seem quicker to seize the IT than the fact that BioWare simply rushed the game and left stuff in there / left open ends on purpose to generate "lots of speculation from everyone" (remember, that was their bottom line).

I think that they could back the theory if they wanted to because the fans basically wrote it for them, but I don't think it was an intentional goal at launch. Again, if it's true, then I paid $80 for an incomplete game and I now have to wait for their "hidden and conclusive ending". That's bull****, and if they had something planned, why drag this backlash out? Why not just break the silence?

Until BioWare confirms or denies it, all the "proof" and "evidence" to support the theory is just fan speculation brought on by disbelief over the ending and the quest to make sense out of it. It isn't necessarily fact or canon.

[wtbusername]

kathic wrote...

Taleroth wrote...

I believe in theories that make falsifiable predictions. I give no credit to theories that establish all of reality is a lie, therefore anything supporting it is true, and anything disproving it is part of the lie.

QFT. Idoc theory occured because people could not cope with the idea that Bioware could write something bad.

Bull****.

The Final Hours app confirms that indoctrination was something that was discussed. 

Stop implying that people are seeing things.

We're not seeing things, the hints/signs are there. This is regardless of the fact if the theory is true or false.

[Kamagawa]

ohbobsagetpiss wrote...

Kamagawa wrote...

Is it because we are still getting an incomplete game?
or because they don't think bioware has 2 brain cells to rub together?
Perhaps it is because they don't like this kind of ending (like thinking fight club was epic except for the end)?

The point of the ending(s) is that Shepherd gets 3 choices on how to solve the reaper problem. He can destroy, control, or combine synth with organic life. Destroy basically says "organics and sythetics can't get along, so sythetics should be destroyed". That's why EDI and the geth die with this ending. Control gives you a way to preserve all life in hope that organics and synthetics can find a way to cooperate, basically the paragon choice. The synergy ending transcends both organic and synthetic and says "let's be one" so that the fighting (although i disagree) will be stopped. 

Indoctrination "theory" ruins this idea by giving you only one "right" choice, destroy. It's like bioware is saying killing all sythetic life is morally right. All other views are wrong and get you killed. That's why it makes no sense.

you aren't distroying all synthetic life, it is the option to distroy the reapers, though to make you feel like you will distroy the Geth which you have now come to like, which is not true.

[GBGriffin]

wtbusername wrote...

kathic wrote...

Taleroth wrote...

I believe in theories that make falsifiable predictions. I give no credit to theories that establish all of reality is a lie, therefore anything supporting it is true, and anything disproving it is part of the lie.

QFT. Idoc theory occured because people could not cope with the idea that Bioware could write something bad.

Bull****.

The Final Hours app confirms that indoctrination was something that was discussed. 

Stop implying that people are seeing things.

We're not seeing things, the hints/signs are there. This is regardless of the fact if the theory is true or false.

I'm pretty sure it said it was discussed, but then abandoned. Or at least the gameplay mechanic where you lose control of Shepard. Again, all of this evidence is fan speculation; it hasn't been confirmed by BioWare.

Wait for them to confirm or deny it before you argue that it is fact.

[VelvetStraitjacket]

I don't want the indoctrination theory to be real because indoctrinated people become thralls then die within weeks.

[IronSabbath88]

You know, if the endings are meant to be taken at face value..

BioWare should be damn grateful that there is all these strange little nuances just magically got placed throughout the game...

Or you know, they ended up there on purpose... one or the other..

[Jim Darksworn]

Because its a desperate attempt by fans to rationalise why the ending was so terrable. The ending is as intended by Bioware, there is no further twist or dark secret.

[IronSabbath88]

Jim Darksworn wrote...

Because its a desperate attempt by fans to rationalise why the ending was so terrable. The ending is as intended by Bioware, there is no further twist or dark secret.

Yeah, just ignore that breath in stone rubble. It means nothing.

[N-Seven]

Vigil_N7 wrote...

Because the idea that bioware would purposely with hold the real ending because they either didn't have time or because they wanted to release it as DLC is quite frankly insulting and is no way to treat loyal customers.

Exactly.  It's more likely that Bioware had good intentions with wrapping this series up, and thought we would embrace it.  I don't think they had this master plan of screwing fans over with an incomplete game and forcing them to buy DLC?  Does anyone seriously think they wanted to deal with all this PR garbage, outrage, and personal attacks on their staff?  I wouldn't even think the headaces ares worth the extra revenue that any DLC would generate.

[SamFlagg]

IronSabbath88 wrote...

Jim Darksworn wrote...

Because its a desperate attempt by fans to rationalise why the ending was so terrable. The ending is as intended by Bioware, there is no further twist or dark secret.

Yeah, just ignore that breath in stone rubble. It means nothing.

It means lots of speculation for everyone.

I still don't understand why its so hard to accept that even if they got "indoctrination DLC" it was only planned after the fact.

[RogueBot]

Because if the indoctrination theory is correct, that doesn't automatically mean Bioware will continue post-game story through DLC, expansions, or sequels, which means that not only were the endings bad enough to begin with, but Shepard went out like a mind-controlled punk with no chance for redemption. 

That's my guess. Personally, I think Bioware just wants us speculating, so I'm indifferent in this regard.

[Nobrandminda]

Sparatus wrote...

Even with the Indoctrination theory it is still a bad ending.

Pretty much this.

The alternative to the "real ending" is that Shepard got knocked out by Harbinger and laid under a pile of rubble for a while until the credits started rolling.  That's not much of an improvement.

[Grasich]

PsychoHitsPeach wrote...

I don't want the indoctrination theory to be real because indoctrinated people become thralls then die within weeks.

I think you missed the point of the Indoc theory. The theory is that you can AVOID indoc if you chose the destroy ending.

[Senario]

I believe it creates a few additional problems that are absolutely impossible to solve because of existing lore. The Theorists conveniently forget parts of ME1's lore. Indoctrinated peoples usually end up with their brain turning to MUSH because of the process. Meaning that this would invalidate any sort of "decent" or "good" ending. As Shepard probably would lose all cognitive function.

Another hole is the prothean VI on Thessia, people argue that "Shepard isn't fully indoctrinated" or that "The VI only detects reaper tech" but really it detects "indoctrinated presenses" so we can assume it is accurate. The protheans wouldn't make a beacon that is supposed to last till the next cycle and NOT give it defenses against Indoctrinated.

This brings me to a third point, "well shepard is starting to be indoctrinated after" Shepard is NOWHERE near Reaper tech, also rapid indoctrination would also leave Shepard a pile of mush in the end. Matriarch Benezia and Saren both fell to indoctrination. I firmly believe that it is something that really can't be "resisted"

As for personal reasons that I don't think others can agree with...It sounds like a bad fanfic. They should just start re-writing from the "Rush to the beam" scene.

[lex0r11]

i support the indoc theory but please, don't open up threads saying how it is impossible not to belive in it or even saying nay sayers are 'dumb' and so on.

everything we do in this board is specualtion until bioware says something and commenting on the ending matter directly. no PR talk, just plain this is our position on this and we think this or we will do this.

Modifié par lex0r11, 20 mars 2012 - 10:58 .

[GBGriffin]

IronSabbath88 wrote...

Jim Darksworn wrote...

Because its a desperate attempt by fans to rationalise why the ending was so terrable. The ending is as intended by Bioware, there is no further twist or dark secret.

Yeah, just ignore that breath in stone rubble. It means nothing.

Did you consider that they rendered it beforehand and just left it in there as an easter egg, since it was already completed? Possibly because they had tossed around the indoctrination theory before abandoning it? Or is that somehow more of a stretch than the theory?

[GBGriffin]

Grasich wrote...

PsychoHitsPeach wrote...

I don't want the indoctrination theory to be real because indoctrinated people become thralls then die within weeks.

I think you missed the point of the Indoc theory. The theory is that you can AVOID indoc if you chose the destroy ending.

...Which, actually, still means that you're railroaded into a choice.

Want to avoid indoctrination? Pick destroy. Want to succumb to it? Pick the other two.

That's still pretty limiting.

[wtbusername]

GBGriffin wrote...

wtbusername wrote...

kathic wrote...

Taleroth wrote...

I believe in theories that make falsifiable predictions. I give no credit to theories that establish all of reality is a lie, therefore anything supporting it is true, and anything disproving it is part of the lie.

QFT. Idoc theory occured because people could not cope with the idea that Bioware could write something bad.

Bull****.

The Final Hours app confirms that indoctrination was something that was discussed. 

Stop implying that people are seeing things.

We're not seeing things, the hints/signs are there. This is regardless of the fact if the theory is true or false.

I'm pretty sure it said it was discussed, but then abandoned. Or at least the gameplay mechanic where you lose control of Shepard. Again, all of this evidence is fan speculation; it hasn't been confirmed by BioWare.

Wait for them to confirm or deny it before you argue that it is fact.

I didn't call the indoc theory fact.

I was referring to the signs/hints, foreshadowing.

[IronSabbath88]

GBGriffin wrote...

IronSabbath88 wrote...

Jim Darksworn wrote...

Because its a desperate attempt by fans to rationalise why the ending was so terrable. The ending is as intended by Bioware, there is no further twist or dark secret.

Yeah, just ignore that breath in stone rubble. It means nothing.

Did you consider that they rendered it beforehand and just left it in there as an easter egg, since it was already completed? Possibly because they had tossed around the indoctrination theory before abandoning it? Or is that somehow more of a stretch than the theory?

That's even more ridiculous than thinking it has meaning.

"Oh let's just keep this in there, mess with our stupid fans, HURR HURR HURR"

[Kamagawa]

I feel that either way, we have an incomplete game as there are meant to be vastly different endings and fixing/completing this via DLC excludes all fans who have no/little internet speed and bandwidth. (stupid hellcom)

[bryan12112]

Jim Darksworn wrote...

Because its a desperate attempt by fans to rationalise why the ending was so terrable. The ending is as intended by Bioware, there is no further twist or dark secret.

The indoctrination theory seems like more than desperation to me. It's well thought out and compelling. If I thought it was nothing more than a desperate attempt to rationalize the ending, I would have written it off as soon as I saw it, because unlike most of these indoctrination theory people, I didn't really hate the ending. We could all be wrong, but I think it's at least something to consider until BioWare gives us a reason to do otherwise.

Modifié par bryan12112, 20 mars 2012 - 11:02 .

[N-Seven]

IronSabbath88 wrote...

Jim Darksworn wrote...

Because its a desperate attempt by fans to rationalise why the ending was so terrable. The ending is as intended by Bioware, there is no further twist or dark secret.

Yeah, just ignore that breath in stone rubble. It means nothing.

It is what it is.  A breath in stone rubble.  'Hey maybe Shepard survived.'  But that's all it is. 

Slightly more than nothing.

Now, you can either accept that, or you can go make it EVERYTHING, and extrapolate a whole secret hidden game section out of it, as well as a bit of a conspiracy on the part of Bioware and EA to milk more money out of you.  That's what buying into the Indoctrination Theory is.   Which one is sillier?

[ohbobsagetpiss]

Kamagawa wrote...

ohbobsagetpiss wrote...

Kamagawa wrote...

Is it because we are still getting an incomplete game?
or because they don't think bioware has 2 brain cells to rub together?
Perhaps it is because they don't like this kind of ending (like thinking fight club was epic except for the end)?

The point of the ending(s) is that Shepherd gets 3 choices on how to solve the reaper problem. He can destroy, control, or combine synth with organic life. Destroy basically says "organics and sythetics can't get along, so sythetics should be destroyed". That's why EDI and the geth die with this ending. Control gives you a way to preserve all life in hope that organics and synthetics can find a way to cooperate, basically the paragon choice. The synergy ending transcends both organic and synthetic and says "let's be one" so that the fighting (although i disagree) will be stopped. 

Indoctrination "theory" ruins this idea by giving you only one "right" choice, destroy. It's like bioware is saying killing all sythetic life is morally right. All other views are wrong and get you killed. That's why it makes no sense.

you aren't distroying all synthetic life, it is the option to distroy the reapers, though to make you feel like you will distroy the Geth which you have now come to like, which is not true.

It destroys both reapers and the geth. I couldn't decipher everything you wrote. Try again?

[Grasich]

GBGriffin wrote...

Grasich wrote...

PsychoHitsPeach wrote...

I don't want the indoctrination theory to be real because indoctrinated people become thralls then die within weeks.

I think you missed the point of the Indoc theory. The theory is that you can AVOID indoc if you chose the destroy ending.

...Which, actually, still means that you're railroaded into a choice.

Want to avoid indoctrination? Pick destroy. Want to succumb to it? Pick the other two.

That's still pretty limiting.

The point is that the game would then continue after that, where you would continue to make REAL choices. Think of it this way, technically you could choose to lose a boss fight and have that be your ending, but do you consider the necessity to defeat a boss to be a reduction of your choices?

[GBGriffin]

IronSabbath88 wrote...


That's even more ridiculous than thinking it has meaning.

"Oh let's just keep this in there, mess with our stupid fans, HURR HURR HURR"

What I'm arguing is that they rushed the product. What you're arguing is that they have a hidden conspiracy to release the true ending to the game after launch.

And mine is the argument that sounds more ridiculous?

Believe it all you want. If it keeps you holding the line, more power to you. I'm encouraging people to realize that, without confirmation or denial from BioWare, it is just a fan-made theory. Nothing more at this point.