152 réponses à ce sujet

[Mole267]

The first time I beat ME3 (haven't beat it a second time yet), Liara was with Shepard on Earth, along with Garrus. The ending, Liara was THERE when she should've still been on Earth. I actually hit ALT-F4, then quickly started another game in the hope that the next ending could be better, and maybe not have such a glaring plot hole like that.

Then when I read that all 3 (weren't there supposed to be 10-16 endings?) are basically the same, I stopped playing the game. I've been playing the first Mass Effect again, and it was actually refreshing to see how big the Citadel is in the first game. As well as other places in the game, and being able to drive the Mako on LOTS of planets.

What happened? It's like they just completely half-assed ME3, and hoped no one would notice.

Modifié par Mole267, 21 mars 2012 - 12:38 .

[General Tiberius]

Thetri wrote...

Also, what about the synthetics killing organics to prevent them from making synthetics that kill organics? Its not a plothole but its stupid. As soon as that holo child said that I burst out laughing.

The Reapers don't "kill", they harvest. They preserve the DNA of every species they annihilate. To an AI, which does not understand the concepts we do, this would constitute that species as still being alive, just in a different form.

So the Reapers come in and remove advanced species whilst preserving their genetic data in Reaper form and get the Galaxy ready for the next organic species to advance. This keeps life in the galaxy evolving and makes sure that one species cannot advance to the point where it can create synthetics capable of wiping out all organic life (which would also be powerful enough to challenge the Reapers).

Its logic is sound to a machine with no grasp on the philosophy of what life is. All the holes in this one are from a point of view which is not formed completely on logical deduction.

[VettoRyouzou]

It's between tali leg.

HI HO!... I'm going to hell.

[General Tiberius]

FREEGUNNER wrote...

What was the purpose of sovereign's mission and the entire first game if the reapers could just fly into the milky way from dark space?

The fact that it took them around three years to do so?

They're lazy. Plus jumping straight in through the Citadel relay gives them a much greater tactical advantage as they can take out the galactic government straight away, as opposed to having to fight through systems on the edge of the galaxy to get to it.

[clipped_wolf]

Alexraptor1 wrote...

Biggest plothole for me is the entire retcon of the reapers and their motives.

In ME1 Sovereign considered him, themselves, as the pinnacle of evolution, and that they were beyond the comprehension of organics.
Organic life was just an accident, a random mutation, and that the only reason it exists is because its been "allowed to".

But in ME3 suddenly, the reapers are all about saving and preserving organic life, and that it is the sole reason for which they were created......WTF?

The Reapers are AI.  Sovereign could have been giving Shepard its opionion on organics, but that only adds to other plot holes.

[Jostle]

General Tiberius wrote...
The Reapers don't "kill", they harvest. They preserve the DNA of every species they annihilate. To an AI, which does not understand the concepts we do, this would constitute that species as still being alive, just in a different form.

So the Reapers come in and remove advanced species whilst preserving their genetic data in Reaper form and get the Galaxy ready for the next organic species to advance. This keeps life in the galaxy evolving and makes sure that one species cannot advance to the point where it can create synthetics capable of wiping out all organic life (which would also be powerful enough to challenge the Reapers).

Its logic is sound to a machine with no grasp on the philosophy of what life is. All the holes in this one are from a point of view which is not formed completely on logical deduction.

So if the Catalyst is an AI, isn't it directly counter indicative of its whole theory that the created will inevitably defy the creator? That seems like a pretty big plot hole to me. By its own logic it should be trying to wipe out all organic life, not try to harvest only the life that is advanced enough to create an AI dangerous enough to destroy all life (which already exists in the form of the Catalyst).

[Dessalines]

There are so many plotholes that it is becoming to that point that I expect when the game end to see S.R. Hadden from Contact state that Mass Relays made be destroyed, but the Reapers built two of every relay, they have just been shielded by stealth-technology. Do you wanna go for a ride?"

Modifié par Dessalines, 21 mars 2012 - 12:52 .

[ghrthtdhdfhdh]

Carlthestrange wrote...

Joker was obviously trying in vain to outrun the plothole. But sadly it caught him.

Awesome

[General Tiberius]

Jostle wrote...

General Tiberius wrote...
The Reapers don't "kill", they harvest. They preserve the DNA of every species they annihilate. To an AI, which does not understand the concepts we do, this would constitute that species as still being alive, just in a different form.

So the Reapers come in and remove advanced species whilst preserving their genetic data in Reaper form and get the Galaxy ready for the next organic species to advance. This keeps life in the galaxy evolving and makes sure that one species cannot advance to the point where it can create synthetics capable of wiping out all organic life (which would also be powerful enough to challenge the Reapers).

Its logic is sound to a machine with no grasp on the philosophy of what life is. All the holes in this one are from a point of view which is not formed completely on logical deduction.

So if the Catalyst is an AI, isn't it directly counter indicative of its whole theory that the created will inevitably defy the creator? That seems like a pretty big plot hole to me. By its own logic it should be trying to wipe out all organic life, not try to harvest only the life that is advanced enough to create an AI dangerous enough to destroy all life (which already exists in the form of the Catalyst).

Hmm, interesting point. Its main function is the overall preservation of organic life through a strict adherence to a cycle of exctinction. The Crucible allowed it to create new solutions. This would suggest that it is incapable of altering its own programming without an outside source.

I think an important point is whether the Synthetic life it bases its theory on is shackled or unshackled AI. If it is unshackled then it is not counter indicative as evidence suggest that the Catalyst is still shackled and so wouldn't fit into its own theory. If it is shackled AI which will destroy organics then it would be counter indicative but would raise the question of how the shackled AIs were capable of turning completely on their creators.

In my opinion it bases its prediction on unshackled AI. As I believe there is evidence that the Catalyst is still bound by restrictive protocols I would say that it is not counter indicative of its own theory.

[TLK Spires]

where was the ending? the credits rolled mid game for some reason.

Modifié par TLK Spires, 21 mars 2012 - 01:10 .

[The_Other_M]

LilyasAvalon wrote...

Also this.

^^^Yeah, this one would be the BIGGEST one.
It was like they got the author of ME:Deception to write the last 15 minutes of the game.

Modifié par The_Other_M, 21 mars 2012 - 01:11 .

[jungosiii]

Normandy fleeing. Everything else I can accept after some pints of beer but that just doesn't make any sense whatsoever. Joker would have never fled nor would he have been able to lift up the entire team in time.

[Rohirrim]

Avissel wrote...

The biggest one for me was the whole "Sovreign has to open the citadel even though the citadel is an intellegant entity that is on the Reapers side" thing.

This. Creating a novel character that kills the whole storyline of a game (Mass Effect 1) is unprecedented.

[Dreogan]

Sovereign.

[Vasparian]

All of the last 30 minutes of the game. And how the hell does my Renegade Shep have a damn Rachni queen in the story when I killed the LAST LIVING queen.

[Amonthes]

The three the OP lists are the ones that bothered me while experiencing the ending, and really the only ones. I chose my LI and other favourite squad member for the final mission, so they would be with me at the end. I experienced the end with the sickening worry that they must be dead - so far so good. But for them to suddenly appear on the Normandy speeding away from the battle for no reason?

And yes, the implication that Shepard would die by destroying organics, followed by his implied, inexplicable survival, was an unneeded "gotcha" moment.

Unlike many others, I didn't dislike or find particular fault (other than ethically) with the reapers' twisted logic, and certainly didn't lose sleep over the physics of how mass relays are supposed to explode when being used to disseminate a signal galaxy-wide. (Surely the energy that would have destroyed the systems they were in was channeled into the reaper-destroying wave?)

[FREEGUNNER]

General Tiberius wrote...

FREEGUNNER wrote...

What was the purpose of sovereign's mission and the entire first game if the reapers could just fly into the milky way from dark space?

The fact that it took them around three years to do so?

They're lazy. Plus jumping straight in through the Citadel relay gives them a much greater tactical advantage as they can take out the galactic government straight away, as opposed to having to fight through systems on the edge of the galaxy to get to it.

They've been doing this job for millions possibly billions of years...pretty sure they can wait 3 more years.

They can accomplish the same thing by reaching the edge relays too...disable all relays for anything not reaper, make a few jumps from edge systems to citadel, do work.

Sovereign didn't have to evaluate the progress of evolution either...thats what the keepers and collectors are for. The other reapers were just trolling him, sovereign is literally the equivalent of invader zim.

[Dessalines]

General Tiberius wrote...

Thetri wrote...

Also, what about the synthetics killing organics to prevent them from making synthetics that kill organics? Its not a plothole but its stupid. As soon as that holo child said that I burst out laughing.

The Reapers don't "kill", they harvest. They preserve the DNA of every species they annihilate. To an AI, which does not understand the concepts we do, this would constitute that species as still being alive, just in a different form.

So the Reapers come in and remove advanced species whilst preserving their genetic data in Reaper form and get the Galaxy ready for the next organic species to advance. This keeps life in the galaxy evolving and makes sure that one species cannot advance to the point where it can create synthetics capable of wiping out all organic life (which would also be powerful enough to challenge the Reapers).

Its logic is sound to a machine with no grasp on the philosophy of what life is. All the holes in this one are from a point of view which is not formed completely on logical deduction.

They do kill. When the release the plague in Mass Effect 2 to kill the species in Omega, they were not harvesting them. They were killing them. They killed the majorty of the species, and they do not preserve your DNA, they rewrite your DNA. Again, that was explain in Mass Effect 2. It is not a valid logical argument.
1) One it is  a deductive fallacy:
All synthetic life will rebel against their organic creators, therefore all organic life will be destroyed is a deductive fallacy.
You have not established in the argument that organic life cannot defeat synthetic life or that synthetic life wants to destroy all organic life.
2) There is so many fallacies of logic in that statement from guilt by association fallacy to circle arguement to two wrongs make a right fallacy. It is a not logical argument.
If you put the statement against all the events in the entire game, it comes down to this:
The Reapers being the only synthetics that have proven they are capable of wiping out the entire galaxy create mass relays which allows for organics  or synthetics to conquer the entire galaxy. Reapers used the geth to attack all organics , because they are going to save us from synthetics that rise up to attack all organics by killing  the majority of us, and rewriting our "DNA" of a  small group of us, so we can serve them for the next harvest of the future advance organic life that is going to create synthetc that will rise up to kill all organic life.

Reapers have never been shown planting life anywhere. Their logic is base on the amazing notion that organic life will continue to grow in a galaxy. Even if you go with the harvesting concept, they are not planting anything. Sooner or latter, they will not be any organic life in the galaxy. It is simple farming concept, you can't just keep harvesting  things without every once planting something, and expect it to be around forever. A concept that a five year old knows, should not be something proclaim by highly technological entity. It makes no sense. Yes, Virginia, they are destroying all organic life, but at a slower pace.

Modifié par Dessalines, 21 mars 2012 - 01:36 .

[Thetri]

Dessalines wrote...

General Tiberius wrote...

Thetri wrote...

Also, what about the synthetics killing organics to prevent them from making synthetics that kill organics? Its not a plothole but its stupid. As soon as that holo child said that I burst out laughing.

The Reapers don't "kill", they harvest. They preserve the DNA of every species they annihilate. To an AI, which does not understand the concepts we do, this would constitute that species as still being alive, just in a different form.

So the Reapers come in and remove advanced species whilst preserving their genetic data in Reaper form and get the Galaxy ready for the next organic species to advance. This keeps life in the galaxy evolving and makes sure that one species cannot advance to the point where it can create synthetics capable of wiping out all organic life (which would also be powerful enough to challenge the Reapers).

Its logic is sound to a machine with no grasp on the philosophy of what life is. All the holes in this one are from a point of view which is not formed completely on logical deduction.

They do kill. When the release the plague in Mass Effect 2 to kill the species in Omega, they were not harvesting them. They were killing them. They killed the majorty of the species, and they do not preserve your DNA, they rewrite your DNA. Again, that was explain in Mass Effect 2. It is not a valid logical argument.
1) One it is  a deductive fallacy:
All synthetic life will rebel against their organic creators, therefore all organic life will be destroyed is a deductive fallacy.
You have not established in the argument that organic life cannot defeat synthetic life or that synthetic life wants to destroy all organic life.
2) There is so many fallacies of logic in that statement from guilt by association fallacy to circle arguement to two wrongs make a right fallacy. It is a not logical argument.
If you put the statement against all the events in the entire game, it comes down to this:
The Reapers being the only synthetics that have proven they are capable of wiping out the entire galaxy create mass relays which allows for organics  or synthetics to conquer the entire galaxy. Reapers used the geth to attack all organics , because they are going to save us from synthetics that rise up to attack all organics by killing  the majority of us, and rewriting our "DNA" of a  small group of us, so we can serve them for the next harvest of the future advance organic life that is going to create synthetc that will rise up to kill all organic life.

Reapers have never been shown planting life anywhere. Their logic is base on the amazing notion that organic life will continue to grow in a galaxy. Even if you go with the harvesting concept, they are not planting anything. Sooner or latter, they will not be any organic life in the galaxy. It is simple farming concept, you can't just keep harvesting  things without every once planting something, and expect it to be around forever. A concept that a five year old knows, should not be something proclaim by highly technological entity. It makes no sense.

Exactly

[UltmtBiz]

The one that hit me in the face immediately was the Normandy flying off and everything that followed.

[hiing]

My LI somehow, magically, went from earth to the Normandy and crash landed in who knows where. She must have said "Laters, Shep!" as I was running towards the red beams of death.

[Shepard_Commander11]

Maybe the logic behind the Catalyst's reasoning for creating the Reapers in the first place.

There are too many to pick just one.

[SassyJazRzmataz]

All three. The one that sticks out in my head the most though is Joker flying off with the Normandy. I even had a dream Shep crawled out of the rubble and hijacked a ship just to fly over to where Joker was just to punch him in the face. That's how much it bothered me.

[donbaloo]

Mine is series wide. Why did anyone ever trust the Keepers? I don't care how long they've been around. We can't ever really communicate with them and they just wander around us and have access to parts of the Citadel that we've never been able to get to. None of the races that have come through the Citadel are bothered by this? I mean, I know some were bothered by it but when all the questions came back inconclusive we all justo decide, well, guess it's okay?

[Lennyoh]

I think the better question is what isn't the biggest plot hole? Honestly I think it would have to be that the star child essentially makes all of ME1&2 useless since if he was part of the Citadel why not then just open the Reaper relay instead of Sovereign using Saren to give him control of the Citadel? And what was the purpose of the Human Reaper being constructed early if their whole point is to save organics from being wiped out by synthetics? Surely humans weren't in danger of being killed by geth for that one year before the Reapers arrived...