152 réponses à ce sujet

[Vasparian]

Lennyoh wrote...

I think the better question is what isn't the biggest plot hole? Honestly I think it would have to be that the star child essentially makes all of ME1&2 useless since if he was part of the Citadel why not then just open the Reaper relay instead of Sovereign using Saren to give him control of the Citadel? And what was the purpose of the Human Reaper being constructed early if their whole point is to save organics from being wiped out by synthetics? Surely humans weren't in danger of being killed by geth for that one year before the Reapers arrived...

See a lot of us that didn't make the game can understand all this. Bioware it seems just doesn't care.

[moater boat]

The biggest for me was the ridiculous idea that after the events of arrival, Shepard would spend 6 months hanging out on Earth doing nothing. It wasn't the biggest WTF moment, but it literally bugged me the whole game, so for me it was the biggest plot hole in the game.

[bazzag]

The normandy section, with the teleporting squaddies. Nothing against the living death destroy repaers bit, as spaceboy doesn't say you will die. He insinuates it, but its up for interpretation. To me, it felt like a line that didn't need to be there, or was in the wrong place, or wrote poorly, like the line about using the crucible will damage the relays, wrong place. That literally stumped me!

Back to its interpretation, i saw destroying the reapers as freeing me from the cerberus upgrades. It shouldn't kill me, as i am organic. Now that i have been reborn for a long time, im probably healthy enough to survive without the metal bits and pieces.

[zarnk567]

Well, the whole last 10 min of the game are just a red bull fueled plot hole Nightmare.......

[moater boat]

Thornquist wrote...

How they moved the frikkin Citadel to earth.

I wondered that too. I was imagining it involved giant tow chains? And can you shoot a mass relay THROUGH a mass relay? That just seems, I don't know, weird.

[bazzag]

Vasparian wrote...

Lennyoh wrote...

I think the better question is what isn't the biggest plot hole? Honestly I think it would have to be that the star child essentially makes all of ME1&2 useless since if he was part of the Citadel why not then just open the Reaper relay instead of Sovereign using Saren to give him control of the Citadel? And what was the purpose of the Human Reaper being constructed early if their whole point is to save organics from being wiped out by synthetics? Surely humans weren't in danger of being killed by geth for that one year before the Reapers arrived...

See a lot of us that didn't make the game can understand all this. Bioware it seems just doesn't care.

The 1st bit i can't explain, unless it has something to do with indoc theory or hallucination. I think the reaps and spaceboys logic over saving them is like this:
Each reaper is unique. The squid or leaf nymph look is the shell surrounding the core of the ship. The core, looking like the harvested species, ie human reaper. In harvesting an entire species, they plan to save the species. How? by making them synthetic. It may sound weird, but in theory i suppose it makes sense. In general, Synthetics do not war with eachother. They are too statistical, too much consensus. 

[Quietness]

Mine is the plot hole where the Catalyst is the Citadel which is the creator of the Reapers, which would have opened the arms before ME1 began killing the entire series.

[Jostle]

 

General Tiberius wrote...

Hmm, interesting point. Its main function is the overall preservation of organic life through a strict adherence to a cycle of exctinction. The Crucible allowed it to create new solutions. This would suggest that it is incapable of altering its own programming without an outside source.

I think an important point is whether the Synthetic life it bases its theory on is shackled or unshackled AI. If it is unshackled then it is not counter indicative as evidence suggest that the Catalyst is still shackled and so wouldn't fit into its own theory. If it is shackled AI which will destroy organics then it would be counter indicative but would raise the question of how the shackled AIs were capable of turning completely on their creators.

In my opinion it bases its prediction on unshackled AI. As I believe there is evidence that the Catalyst is still bound by restrictive protocols I would say that it is not counter indicative of its own theory.

I suppose the shackled/unshackled theory would make a difference, and I'll admit that I am infering a bit here (not that Bioware gave me much of a choice... don't even get me started on a lack of available questions in the culmination of over 100 hours of gameplay...) but it really seemed like the Catalyst was capable of making huge decisions. He refers to the reapers as "my solution." That, to me, sounds like an unshackled AI, or at least one with enough freedom to create incredibly power mojo. 

bazzag wrote...

The 1st bit i can't explain, unless it has something to do with indoc theory or hallucination. I think the reaps and spaceboys logic over saving them is like this:
Each reaper is unique. The squid or leaf nymph look is the shell surrounding the core of the ship. The core, looking like the harvested species, ie human reaper. In harvesting an entire species, they plan to save the species. How? by making them synthetic. It may sound weird, but in theory i suppose it makes sense. In general, Synthetics do not war with eachother. They are too statistical, too much consensus. 

Why wouldn't synthetics war with eachother? The geth did.

[IntoTheDarkness]

Reapers falling from ME universe gods to slave race... WTF...

[KevShep]

The catalyst and everything surounding him.

[Swinns]

2>1>3

[Tali_Shepard]

The whole ending was just one big plot hole!

[General Tiberius]

Dessalines wrote...

General Tiberius wrote...

Thetri wrote...

Also, what about the synthetics killing organics to prevent them from making synthetics that kill organics? Its not a plothole but its stupid. As soon as that holo child said that I burst out laughing.

The Reapers don't "kill", they harvest. They preserve the DNA of every species they annihilate. To an AI, which does not understand the concepts we do, this would constitute that species as still being alive, just in a different form.

So the Reapers come in and remove advanced species whilst preserving their genetic data in Reaper form and get the Galaxy ready for the next organic species to advance. This keeps life in the galaxy evolving and makes sure that one species cannot advance to the point where it can create synthetics capable of wiping out all organic life (which would also be powerful enough to challenge the Reapers).

Its logic is sound to a machine with no grasp on the philosophy of what life is. All the holes in this one are from a point of view which is not formed completely on logical deduction.

They do kill. When the release the plague in Mass Effect 2 to kill the species in Omega, they were not harvesting them. They were killing them. They killed the majorty of the species, and they do not preserve your DNA, they rewrite your DNA. Again, that was explain in Mass Effect 2. It is not a valid logical argument.
1) One it is  a deductive fallacy:
All synthetic life will rebel against their organic creators, therefore all organic life will be destroyed is a deductive fallacy.
You have not established in the argument that organic life cannot defeat synthetic life or that synthetic life wants to destroy all organic life.
2) There is so many fallacies of logic in that statement from guilt by association fallacy to circle arguement to two wrongs make a right fallacy. It is a not logical argument.
If you put the statement against all the events in the entire game, it comes down to this:
The Reapers being the only synthetics that have proven they are capable of wiping out the entire galaxy create mass relays which allows for organics  or synthetics to conquer the entire galaxy. Reapers used the geth to attack all organics , because they are going to save us from synthetics that rise up to attack all organics by killing  the majority of us, and rewriting our "DNA" of a  small group of us, so we can serve them for the next harvest of the future advance organic life that is going to create synthetc that will rise up to kill all organic life.

Reapers have never been shown planting life anywhere. Their logic is base on the amazing notion that organic life will continue to grow in a galaxy. Even if you go with the harvesting concept, they are not planting anything. Sooner or latter, they will not be any organic life in the galaxy. It is simple farming concept, you can't just keep harvesting  things without every once planting something, and expect it to be around forever. A concept that a five year old knows, should not be something proclaim by highly technological entity. It makes no sense. Yes, Virginia, they are destroying all organic life, but at a slower pace.

1) The plague on Omega was a biological experiment, separate to the actual Reaper extinction cycle.

2) They do preserve your DNA. The Catalyst tells you this "We helped them ascend so they could make way for new life, storing the old life in Reaper form." Also Sovereign claiming that they are the pinnacle of evolution. They may experiment with small numbers of a species as they did to turn some of the Protheans into the Collectors but the majority are harvested and made into new Reapers.

3) You do not need to plant life on this scale. It evolves through random chance from combinations of amino acids forming proteins to single celled organisms and onwards. As long as there are planets capable of harbouring it, life will evolve without needing any help from an outside source, just as we did. So your farming analogy is flawed.

4) Reapers used the Geth to attempt to activate the Citadel and to attack the Quarians, not to attempt to wipe out all life.

[Gorfimus]

Joker speeding away.

[Baihu1983]

Every thing The Catalyst said.

[General Tiberius]

Jostle wrote...

 

General Tiberius wrote...

Hmm, interesting point. Its main function is the overall preservation of organic life through a strict adherence to a cycle of exctinction. The Crucible allowed it to create new solutions. This would suggest that it is incapable of altering its own programming without an outside source.

I think an important point is whether the Synthetic life it bases its theory on is shackled or unshackled AI. If it is unshackled then it is not counter indicative as evidence suggest that the Catalyst is still shackled and so wouldn't fit into its own theory. If it is shackled AI which will destroy organics then it would be counter indicative but would raise the question of how the shackled AIs were capable of turning completely on their creators.

In my opinion it bases its prediction on unshackled AI. As I believe there is evidence that the Catalyst is still bound by restrictive protocols I would say that it is not counter indicative of its own theory.

I suppose the shackled/unshackled theory would make a difference, and I'll admit that I am infering a bit here (not that Bioware gave me much of a choice... don't even get me started on a lack of available questions in the culmination of over 100 hours of gameplay...) but it really seemed like the Catalyst was capable of making huge decisions. He refers to the reapers as "my solution." That, to me, sounds like an unshackled AI, or at least one with enough freedom to create incredibly power mojo. 

Being able to make a big decision is not necessarily a sign of it being unshackled. The only signs we've been explicitly told are the ability to lie and alter your own programming, which EDI can do but it seems the Catalyst cannot. Even at the end, after the Crucible has altered it, the Catalyst is unable to actually change itself. It relies on an organic to put the new solution into place.

[rpgfan321]

I didn't understand why Joker was flying away and was left stranded on a jungle planet/setting. Didn't get that at all. Left me confused even more.

[MassFrank]

How the Reapers managed to erase virtually all evidence of their existence, for countless cycles, but missed the blueprints for a Reaper killing super weapon.

Modifié par MassFrank, 21 mars 2012 - 08:41 .

[Thaa_solon]

Still don't understand how space hamster ended up below engineering

[Valk72]

The Catalyst and the Normandy.

[Vhalkyrie]

If you chose the synergy option, Saren was right all along. Should have just joined Sovereign.

[ATHall88]

I just want an explanation for why the Normandy was running away from the battle and how our squad mates got from Earth to the Normandy.
Everything else I can live with, but those two things just confuse the hell out of me and just make no sense.

[anlk92]

The one that bothered me the most was the Normandy.

[Vhalkyrie]

There is no way Joker picked up Garrus and Kaidan and ran. If they somehow survived the beam, they would not have left Earth without either me or my corpse.

They also wouldn't crashland on a planet, smiling.

Modifié par Vhalkyrie, 21 mars 2012 - 08:53 .

[Lennyoh]

bazzag wrote...

Vasparian wrote...

Lennyoh wrote...

I think the better question is what isn't the biggest plot hole? Honestly I think it would have to be that the star child essentially makes all of ME1&2 useless since if he was part of the Citadel why not then just open the Reaper relay instead of Sovereign using Saren to give him control of the Citadel? And what was the purpose of the Human Reaper being constructed early if their whole point is to save organics from being wiped out by synthetics? Surely humans weren't in danger of being killed by geth for that one year before the Reapers arrived...

See a lot of us that didn't make the game can understand all this. Bioware it seems just doesn't care.

The 1st bit i can't explain, unless it has something to do with indoc theory or hallucination. I think the reaps and spaceboys logic over saving them is like this:
Each reaper is unique. The squid or leaf nymph look is the shell surrounding the core of the ship. The core, looking like the harvested species, ie human reaper. In harvesting an entire species, they plan to save the species. How? by making them synthetic. It may sound weird, but in theory i suppose it makes sense. In general, Synthetics do not war with eachother. They are too statistical, too much consensus. 

My point about the human Reaper is that if the whole point of Reapers is to harvest advanced civilizations and save them from organics, then why was it being constructed so early before the Reapers arrival? It just kills the whole point of ME2. At least with the original dark energy ending thing the point was that because the cycle was delayed the Reapers were running out of time to save galactic life and began the early construction with the Collectors because it was the key to stopping the spread of dark energy for whatever reason that I assumed would have been explained. With the reason the Reapers are around that was used it just makes no sense since humans weren't in danger of being wiped out by synthetics which in this cycle was only the geth so there was no reason for its construction before the Reapers arrived