265 réponses à ce sujet

[Rifneno]

Golgo x13x wrote...

Lemons39 wrote...

Sabresandiego wrote...

Lemons39 wrote...

Yeah, I wish people would make more of a rise about this.

Decreasing the fire rate, that's fine. But doing it THIS much and still giving the gun a huge amount of weight, less ammo, AND mediocre damage?

What's the point of that gun now?

They left in the AOE stagger, which means its still a top tier gun for power user classes.

Not that top tier for a power user class if the weight is so high, yeah?

for the bad top tiers that dont use equipment mods to counter weight

AR mods: Precision Scope, Extended Magazine, Stability Dampener, Extended Barrel, Penetration
One-use weapon mods: Assault Rifle Rail Amp - Applies an Assault Rifle Damage Bonus for one mission.
Pistol Rail Amp - Applies a Pistol Damage Bonus for one mission.
SMG Rail Amp - Applies a SMG Damage Bonus for one mission.
Sniper Rifle Rail Amp - Applies a Sniper Rifle Damage Bonus for one mission.
Shotgun Rail Amp - Applies a Shotgun Damage Bonus for one mission.

Exactly which one of these do you think makes a gun that weighs as much as an adolescent krogan viable for a power class?  I don't see any that affect weight AT ALL, let alone to that extent.

[Lemons39]

Golgo x13x wrote...

Lemons39 wrote...

Sabresandiego wrote...

Lemons39 wrote...

Yeah, I wish people would make more of a rise about this.

Decreasing the fire rate, that's fine. But doing it THIS much and still giving the gun a huge amount of weight, less ammo, AND mediocre damage?

What's the point of that gun now?

They left in the AOE stagger, which means its still a top tier gun for power user classes.

Not that top tier for a power user class if the weight is so high, yeah?

for the bad top tiers that dont use equipment mods to counter weight

Sorry, I'm not familiar with mods for the Assault Rifle that counter weight.

[Genoard]

Can anyone please tell me what "refire rate" means? Is that reload time?

[Roninraver]

 I'm fairly sure he was referring to Power Efficiency Modules, probably at rank 3.

It doesn't completely negate the recharge penalty due to the Falcon's weight, but it does mitigate it and bring your ability cooldowns to manageable levels.

EDIT

Genoard wrote...

Can anyone please tell me what "refire rate" means? Is that reload time?

 

That is the delay inbetween shots, Genoard.  How long after firing a shot before you are able to fire another.

Modifié par Roninraver, 21 mars 2012 - 06:06 .

[RiouHotaru]

I like how the gun was utterly broken before (Seriously, two of my friends used Falcons in one game and pretty much scored ALL the kills in a Silver game, utterly destroying every spawn wave), and now that it's not completely OP, it's "useless".

Just learn to use it differently then.

[Kavadas]

Just edit your Coalesced.bin to put it back to where it was and host your games. I run an almost 100% custom weapon balance (nothing insane, usually just minor tweaks like damage, RoF, and clip size) and no one has ever complained; it beats having to dump 10 rounds into a trash mob just to kill it if you're an AR user.

Weapon classes need weapon love anyways.

[Miaoven Winter]

Lemons39 wrote...

Golgo x13x wrote...

for the bad top tiers that dont use equipment mods to counter weight

Sorry, I'm not familiar with mods for the Assault Rifle that counter weight.

He's referring to Equipment modifications, not Weapon modifications. In this case, Power Recharge Bonuses, to counteract the high weight. Unfortunately, I don't think even Lv. III Power Recharge will offset enough, and you won't have the number to consistently use them, unless you spend BWPs on Spectres like a MFer.

[Genoard]

Roninraver wrote...

Genoard wrote...

Can anyone please tell me what "refire rate" means? Is that reload time?

 

That is the delay inbetween shots, Genoard.  How long after firing a shot before you are able to fire another.

And how does it different from rate of fire?

[Currylaksa]

KodiakAsh wrote...

PS: Saber sucks.  It's DPS is atrocious.

Agree. Saber is really sub-par

[Rifneno]

RiouHotaru wrote...

I like how the gun was utterly broken before (Seriously, two of my friends used Falcons in one game and pretty much scored ALL the kills in a Silver game, utterly destroying every spawn wave), and now that it's not completely OP, it's "useless".

Just learn to use it differently then.

What an utterly useless argument.  You make no points about its current viability, only that it was OP before so apparently it must be fine now.  By that parody of logic and reason, if the gun just shot out a little flag that said "Bang" now, it'd be okay because it used to be awesome.

[DaeBlackheart]

RiouHotaru wrote...

I like how the gun was utterly broken before (Seriously, two of my friends used Falcons in one game and pretty much scored ALL the kills in a Silver game, utterly destroying every spawn wave), and now that it's not completely OP, it's "useless".

Just learn to use it differently then.

^^ Spoken like someone who never used it themselves. Tell me, did you get just as much experience and credits as your friends did who used that gun? Did they get ANYTHING more than you got by having a higher score than you? No? Then why say it was broken or OP?

It was one of the very few useable weapons in the game that didnt suck. Almost every other AR needs a full clip to drop almost any target on silver and more than a clip to drop anything on gold. As many have mentioned, almost the only class that used the falcon was one that didnt have much in the way of powers to back it up aside form its gear [ie, Soldiers, Sentinels, etc] the classes that tanks the big nasties. 

Unless the Reapers, Geth and Cerberus are the oines filing complaints with BioWare saying the weapons are OP, NO ONE should be crying over a weapon that earns then experience and credits is too strong. 

[C.M Liu]

now , M-37 Falcon is dead. one more useless weapon in multiplayer.

[Lemons39]

Miaoven Winter wrote...

Lemons39 wrote...

Golgo x13x wrote...

for the bad top tiers that dont use equipment mods to counter weight

Sorry, I'm not familiar with mods for the Assault Rifle that counter weight.

He's referring to Equipment modifications, not Weapon modifications. In this case, Power Recharge Bonuses, to counteract the high weight. Unfortunately, I don't think even Lv. III Power Recharge will offset enough, and you won't have the number to consistently use them, unless you spend BWPs on Spectres like a MFer.

Ah, gotcha.

[Bountyhunterinc]

is this the "please nerf this weapon thread"?

oh, no? sorry, can someone please link me there?

Modifié par Bountyhunterinc, 21 mars 2012 - 06:29 .

[Currylaksa]

Rifneno wrote...
What an utterly useless argument.  You make no points about its current viability, only that it was OP before so apparently it must be fine now.  By that parody of logic and reason, if the gun just shot out a little flag that said "Bang" now, it'd be okay because it used to be awesome.

His argument is not useless, far from it.

What's he saying is we should not succumb to hyperbole and try it out for a few silver/gold runs first.

[Biosplosions]

Some people here won't find MP fun until all weapons are like throwing wet toliet paper at enemies.

[The Kemosabi]

The game is losing its luster fast with all this "rebalancing." The falcon was FUN to use...now its not.

[Roninraver]

RiouHotaru wrote...

I like how the gun was utterly broken before (Seriously, two of my friends used Falcons in one game and pretty much scored ALL the kills in a Silver game, utterly destroying every spawn wave), and now that it's not completely OP, it's "useless".

Just learn to use it differently then.

The reason I am put off by this balance adjustment is because it was a direct nerf to what made the Falcon worthwhile: its crowd control abilities.

I would have been fine if they had nerfed the Falcon's damage straight into the ground, sub Predator I level of damage even.
That would have been acceptable, I don't equip the Falcon when I want to utterly destroy things.  If I want to do that, I can hop on an Adept or an Infiltrator, or sling a Black Widow (or now a Valiant) on my Soldier's back.

I equipped the Falcon when I wanted to provide exceptional small-radius crowd control and point defense to my squad.

The nerf to the Falcon's damage is a secondary effect of the direct nerf to its crowd control ability via lowered Rate of Fire.
Yesterday I could target a group, fire a shot and stagger that group.  Turn quickly to another group, fire a shot and stagger the second group.  Then turn back to the first group and fire another shot as the stagger wore off to re-stagger, turn to second and stagger again, repeat until everything is dead.

That isn't possible today.  Today it is a struggle to stagger one group of enemies, or a SINGLE enemy.  Especially in light of the fact that they still have yet to fix the disappearing shots bug.

If a shot disappeared into the ether yesterday in a gold match, I would be annoyed but shrug it off and fire again.
If a shot disappears into the ether on gold today, I'm on mic asking a squaddie for a revive.

The RoF is too low to fire a do-over shot to make up for the bug.


Basically the uproar over the Falcon nerf (at least the uproar from the good players) isn't because it no longer destroys entire waves of baddies in a hail of grenades.
It's because the Falcon no longer allows a good player to provide substantial CC abilities that benefit their team and safeguard their squad while reviving or capturing objectives.

[Rifneno]

Currylaksa wrote...

Rifneno wrote...
What an utterly useless argument.  You make no points about its current viability, only that it was OP before so apparently it must be fine now.  By that parody of logic and reason, if the gun just shot out a little flag that said "Bang" now, it'd be okay because it used to be awesome.

His argument is not useless, far from it.

What's he saying is we should not succumb to hyperbole and try it out for a few silver/gold runs first.

First, no that's not what he's saying.  He said use it differently, not use it and see if it's that bad now first.  "Use it differently" means absolutely nothing when not also saying how it's still viable.  You can say "if you can't melee 3 banshees to death, try it differently" too.  Doesn't mean a thing.  Second, we DID try it out.  It's awful.  It took a massive nerf and THEY DIDN'T EVEN FIX THE MASSIVE BUG.

[DaeBlackheart]

Biosplosions wrote...

Some people here won't find MP fun until all weapons are like throwing wet toliet paper at enemies.

And then youll see arguments of "This weapon is like throwing 2-ply! Its too OP, make it single ply, government issue tissue!!"

[RiouHotaru]

DaeBlackheart wrote...

RiouHotaru wrote...

I like how the gun was utterly broken before (Seriously, two of my friends used Falcons in one game and pretty much scored ALL the kills in a Silver game, utterly destroying every spawn wave), and now that it's not completely OP, it's "useless".

Just learn to use it differently then.

^^ Spoken like someone who never used it themselves. Tell me, did you get just as much experience and credits as your friends did who used that gun? Did they get ANYTHING more than you got by having a higher score than you? No? Then why say it was broken or OP?

It was one of the very few useable weapons in the game that didnt suck. Almost every other AR needs a full clip to drop almost any target on silver and more than a clip to drop anything on gold. As many have mentioned, almost the only class that used the falcon was one that didnt have much in the way of powers to back it up aside form its gear [ie, Soldiers, Sentinels, etc] the classes that tanks the big nasties. 

Unless the Reapers, Geth and Cerberus are the oines filing complaints with BioWare saying the weapons are OP, NO ONE should be crying over a weapon that earns then experience and credits is too strong. 

...What ARs are you using?  Even in Silver I rarely have to empty a whole clip into something with my Vindicator to kill it.  But then I use the Turian Solider so I'm pretty much nailing the head every time I fire.

As for my teammates, even they admitted it was OP.  You could stunlock an entire group from halfway across the map, and on anything BUT Gold it turned a match into a snoozefest.  It still has it's stun effect but you can't stunlock with it.

Which is my opinion was it's intended effect.  It's still great at destroying trash mobs.  You just can't lock down whole waves with it.  Which was NEVER it's intended design, IMO.

[DaeBlackheart]

Crowd control via splash damage was pretty much its main purpose, in my opinion, since its not an exceptionally strong gun for its weight. Coupled with an inferno grenade or two you could wipe out a spawn group but that was mainly by staggering them to stay in the AOE of the inferno for a few seconds extra. The significantly lowered refire time has killed even that purpose though. My krogan soldier was a "death through AOE" kinda toon. Lob in an inferno and then get a bit more damage on them with a couple quick shots from the falcon and voila, a small group of targets is dead. Now with a refire rate so slow between shots, I might as well just carry a regular assault rifle and hold down the trigger like so many others do, though even your vindicator got nerfed a bit today as well.

Vindicator Assault Rifle
- Damage decreased from [68.6-85.8] to [62.4-78.0]
- Encumbrance increased from [1.0-0.5] to [1.25-0.7]

[Roninraver]

RiouHotaru wrote...

DaeBlackheart wrote...

RiouHotaru wrote...

I like how the gun was utterly broken before (Seriously, two of my friends used Falcons in one game and pretty much scored ALL the kills in a Silver game, utterly destroying every spawn wave), and now that it's not completely OP, it's "useless".

Just learn to use it differently then.

^^ Spoken like someone who never used it themselves. Tell me, did you get just as much experience and credits as your friends did who used that gun? Did they get ANYTHING more than you got by having a higher score than you? No? Then why say it was broken or OP?

It was one of the very few useable weapons in the game that didnt suck. Almost every other AR needs a full clip to drop almost any target on silver and more than a clip to drop anything on gold. As many have mentioned, almost the only class that used the falcon was one that didnt have much in the way of powers to back it up aside form its gear [ie, Soldiers, Sentinels, etc] the classes that tanks the big nasties. 

Unless the Reapers, Geth and Cerberus are the oines filing complaints with BioWare saying the weapons are OP, NO ONE should be crying over a weapon that earns then experience and credits is too strong. 

...What ARs are you using?  Even in Silver I rarely have to empty a whole clip into something with my Vindicator to kill it.  But then I use the Turian Solider so I'm pretty much nailing the head every time I fire.

As for my teammates, even they admitted it was OP.  You could stunlock an entire group from halfway across the map, and on anything BUT Gold it turned a match into a snoozefest.  It still has it's stun effect but you can't stunlock with it.

Which is my opinion was it's intended effect.  It's still great at destroying trash mobs.  You just can't lock down whole waves with it.  Which was NEVER it's intended design, IMO.

I disagree, I think that was entirely the intended design.  Even if it wasn't, it was the only reason to use the weapon by virtue of the fact that nearly any other weapon in the game could make targets dead faster than the Falcon, and make them dead for a greater length of time as well considering the low (now even lower) ammo count.

Only when firing into a group did the Falcon shine, and only then because of its crowd control ability.
Without said CC ability the person holding the Falcon was going to die long before the enemies did.  That is where the Falcon is sitting right now.  

[Hsien]

Well i had a game where a Quarian Engineer was using the Falcon and was tearing the Reaper forces apart on silver by himself just by spamming his falcon grenades bouncing everywhere.

Not surprised it got nerfed

[DaeBlackheart]

RiouHotaru wrote...
 You could stunlock an entire group from halfway across the map, and on anything BUT Gold it turned a match into a snoozefest.  It still has it's stun effect but you can't stunlock with it.

Which is my opinion was it's intended effect.  It's still great at destroying trash mobs.  You just can't lock down whole waves with it.  Which was NEVER it's intended design, IMO.

Again, no disrespect intended, but if you had ever used the weapon yourself, youd know more about what you are talking about than you do. Youre going off of secondhand info on something youve never used personally and yet trying to give your opinion on its "intended" purpose.