59 réponses à ce sujet

[xnode]

Well ok, so Bioware and fellow readers, I give you my ultimate idea for dragon age 3. For me, this has never been done and to be honest I never understood why. Then again maybe it has to do with what it would take, but then I see things in a simpler light.

- Ownership, Siege And My lord
You know, for all the times I have played RPG'S from the day's of PnP to today's Dragon Age, there has always been something I thought missing from these games. It seems no matter what the game is about or what the trouble is in the world you are a hero, have friends and sometimes don't but it's your job to "Save the world" so to speak. We all love this concept for in the end we are the one to "Save the day" and be that epic character/person we can't be in real life.

We dive deep into the new world and explore it's lore and be immersed into the epic tale of the world. In each thou, it seems that we never are able to be "the lord" or the land owner and make real choices and see those choices have out comes. Now now! I know what you are thinking, other games gave us a city to upgrade and expand and then choices in how we deal with the final outcome. Even dragon age (our beloved series) had awakening, where we did have a semi controlling effect of a keep and choice at the end what to do. However, none give us a full feel or control or sense immersion that we could have.

I look at it this way, we have all these games attempting this aspects now more then before which is good (maybe my constant postings for these games have been heard) but in the end, none of them have really done the idea justice. Bare with me for a moment while I explain how this could be a game within a game and how this would expand your enjoyment and replay beyond just a few times!

First, let me say that I am a coder and gamer, I became a coder for my love of PC gaming was so strong I had to learn how it was done. While I only touch two gaming titles in my life of development, my true passion has always been the design of a game. Sure, why not just start a company? or hire on as a designer? Can you say everyone and their brother has that ultimate idea? If it was that easy I would have and sadly the games I was involved in where more along the strategy side, probably why I love this idea.

RPG'S are as we know a role playing game where we are immersing ourselves in this new world and become a great hero or key figure that we the players would enjoy being. For me however, I always wondered why I couldn't be the guy holding the lands and venturing forth to enhance those lands and deal with my people. A ruler? Sure or even not it all depends. For my thoughts are geared more to actually effects of my choices to the world I am in. Just like in the real world, we want homes and our own lives, to make our own choices and to buy and enjoy things that we like that we see fit to enhance our time on this earth. Why not do so in an RPG? Housing? sure, but that's just a simple collecting game then. Moving stuff around in that house? Now we are talking Sims3, not really what I have in mind. However add all that before with an actual village, keep/castle with full control along with invasions and my RPG adventure? Now where talking!

With all that in mind (as this could go on and on) here are the key points I believe would make for one hell of an RPG (well I should enhance such) along with your general RPG experience, IE combat, interactions, story.


- Own land and build upon it

- Your restrictions are your own (in other words , want to only run a village? go ahead, want to run a keep? why not? want to own a kingdom? Now we are talking!)

- Keeps, Strongholds, Castles - build one from the ground up! Maybe design them (with restrictions) and more.
- Hirelings - Not just your party or henchmen, I want guards, weapons smiths and more.
 
- Economics - Did you help your village or are you a tyrant?

- Invasions-  A MUST! To many games bring this idea half done, Sorry Bioware Reckoning went down this path but only what I would consider a bit. We the player need to feel the sense that even thou we are not there , life goes on, with general math caculations you can have outcomes done off screen and those reminces seen when the player returns. This can be from the start of a small darkspawn groups hitting the village (then the need for a keep or walls) to full invasions. Maybe this happens then again maybe not, this brings the "unknown factor" into play. Maybe the player clears out the area around his/her village but misses the cave? Ops! That's going to cost you.. Player comes back, villagers say "they came from the west" and now we have a new adventure. Oh wait, you cleared those caves? Dam when you where gone for the month, something else moved in... maybe we need an outpost? Ouch, we are low on resources! Sure you are almost talking a strategy game within an rpg, but I think you understand this idea with Reckoning, you had it, you just needed to take it a bit further.



The list can grow, but the idea here is you have a piece of land in this world and you choose what you want to do with it. In the end the Dev team can look at it as the heroes stronghold and at the end it may have something to do with the main story line or not (thou with would make more sense) and basically this holding and what is done with it can effect the outcome of the whole game.

Now the other side of this coin (as when a Dev reads it will be) is the development it would take to do this. To be honest again referring back to the coder in me, this is an undertaking but then it all comes down to how detailed you want to get with it. For me, the most important factors would be, owning a stronghold and being able to enhance and see those enhancements, decor as you see fit and hiring guards to protect it. Those three things can be implemented in a descent amount of time. The other parts could be handed out to other departments (story boards) and more. But in the end, not only are you giving players a world they are part of , but actually have holdings they have a heavy feeling for in that world.
I think reckoning might have been that "lets see how this would work out" concept to this idea (again maybe I can pat myself on the back for bringing this up a few times) but in the end as time goes on I get a bit clearer picture on how this can all work out.

For me, this brings to me the sort of game that could have multiple outcomes depending on what I do, adds allot more depth to the game along with a deep ownership that other games have attempted but just didn't take it far enough to make happen. I always wanted that strategy and RPG mix that would make for one hell of an RPG. I thought Skyrim came close and I was really hoping they would have had something like this ,but sadly didn't. Bioware , if you want details hit me up, I might work for you , I see this development to be a descent undertaking but nothing that would take away from the main game to begin with. Graphics to the art department, physics to the engineer and animations so on, yea it's not "easy" but if done right could be used over and over in coding future with no gamer being the wiser. Just change layouts, frames, etc and BAM new keep for a new game. Let me take you to the next step in that gaming evolution Bioware or just take my idea and go with it further then you did in reckoning, either one will work for me!

Modifié par xnode, 21 mars 2012 - 01:02 .

[Big I]

I will say that I loved upgrading Vigil's Keep in Awakening, and that I love the idea having an ownable stronghold, like Baldur's Gate 2. I doubt it'd fit into the next Dragon Age game though if the dev plans now are the same as they were a few months ago, as Mike Laidlaw said that they intend to widen the scope of the next Dragon Age game to take place over several nations (e.g. Act 1 in Orlais, Act 2 in Tevinter etc).


If there were to be some sort of upgradeable player base, maybe as a hub between locations or a mobile one like a ship, I'd love to be able to personalise it through exclusive options. For example, do I build a tower to house a collection of mages or a Chantry to house a regiment of templars? Do I invest in opening trade through the Deep Roads with Orzammar or do I make my base a hub for the Dalish? Things like that would be great.

[thats1evildude]

I played this game before. As I recall, it ended with Ghandi threatening me with nuclear weapons.

Blech, I say. BLECH. I want Dragon Age to stay as an adventure game, not a 4X title. Keep the focus on battling monsters, braving dungeons and wooing comely lasses with foreign accents. (Or handsome men, whatever floats your boat.)

Modifié par thats1evildude, 21 mars 2012 - 07:37 .

[LegendaryBlade]

The Keep in Awakening was my favorite part of that game, so I 100% endorse this idea even though I only skimmed it.

[Halberd96]

I also skimmed through this (only because I'm lazy, it looks well written) but I still like the idea. Even if its only used to a small extent its still cool. Or it could be used to a more larger extent like in Awakening and Neverwinter Nights 2.

[caradoc2000]

thats1evildude wrote...

Blech, I say. BLECH. I want Dragon Age to stay as an adventure game, not a 4X title.

I agree, Civilization is a different ball game.

[xnode]

Don't take me wrong, I concure with the 4x remark. I am in no way refering or asking that dragon age go this rout. What I think is very possible however is to have a keep or stronghold that you can do things at (lookingglass93 great ideas).

However, you can take it a step further and add a dimision to the game now that you have this in place with more of the "unkown factor" , while you are out saving the world, in the back of your mind you are wondering how your stronghold is holding up, what has happened sense the weeks past if anything? Beyond all of this, you then have an after game. The after game could be just as those games that are now making tons on , that is you take that this part of the game out of the main game and turn it into a co-op seige fight wave after wave. Spending points earned on more troops , etc... think of a hub in the middle and the AI seiging from all directions in the DA world.

Eh many many people loved the huge battles in DA (as myself) and this is just an offshoot after the main game is complete. There is nothing here (During the main game play) that would deture or take away from the main game, this only ehances it. But then if you didn't read my long post I understand why you don't see it. It's not a black and white statement. If you think what I wrote was long, you should see the 1000 page development books devs come up with just to deal with one aspect of a game prior to even writting the first line of code.

Eh in the end, there is nothing negative to any of this other then the fact it would take time to impliment, but then I am one to see beyond just the base of what it would be used here in the game, but to co-op play and other avenues/titles this work (if done correctly) could be used in.

[PsychoBlonde]

I'd be less interested in a keep or stronghold, but I wouldn't mind having an army. I didn't mind that DA2 was so tied to Kirkwall, but Thedas is a big place and I'd like to see more of it. It also seems that the conflicts that are currently coming to a head will REQUIRE the involvement of bigger factions, more places, just overall be bigger. If you have a little keep somewhere, that's probably going to be inconsistent with the development of the meta-story.

However, what I'd kind of like to see (in the most general terms), is you playing a displaced, rootless person floating through areas of terrible conflict, always caught between battling factions who want to make use of you. A traveling mercenary, maybe. As you go along, you can collect like-minded people to your banner. However, this also becomes increasingly problematic, because you now have more to offer these battling factions--and you're more of a threat.

There could be a section (or sections) where you take and build upon and defend a keep. That'd be totally sensible for mercenaries (or whatever) and be really cool. But I don't think it'd make for a whole game in and of itself.

Or maybe they could do something like that--make you the commander of a small but incredibly strategically important border post smack on a major choke point. EVERYBODY would want to go through there.

They can do all kinds of things. But I would really like to see more of Thedas in the bargain.

[xnode]

I like it PsychoBlonde, that's a good approch to the idea and in the end would add that diminsion that your more then just one person saving the world with some friends

[Wulfram]

I think you could make a very good RPG focused on the rule of "stronghold" or other small area. But I'm not sure they fit in very well with a normal RPG.

One thing I think you do need for any sort of strategic management type thing is a real way of tracking time passing. You can't do it on the rather abstract speed of plot logic that Bioware games tend to run on.

[xnode]

Not really, with plot works the way bioware goes about it, laying a trigger in a game is a simple as Z=trigger,.. bla bla bla.. it's not difficult at all. The issue becomes the value of the idea into a game such as dragon age. Eh they always want replayability, how many ask for such. Give me a dragon age with a mix of one and two (which it seems they are going towards) add in a deminsion of ownership with actual game feedback and wala, ulitmate combo.

Not to mention when the game is over, a simple converstion could turn it into a co-op or pvp romp keeping the game alive way longer beyond the single player aspects. You could even add a solo co-op, basicly beat each wave, get points, spend points where you see fit (or the team) and then start the next wave and try to make it to the top teir. That is of course just one off shoot you can take from this idea. Basicly, if you know warhammer rts game, think of that but in a more rpg setting, this is of course not a part of the main game as suggested prior, it is just ways they could expand and keep expanding content beyond without hiring more people to do dlc. while I want my dlc, this would just be another fun aspect to make the game last longer. Also as mentioned, once implimented, you can take this part of the modual and add it to other titles in the future.

As bioware is known for it's unique story telling elements that we love, they could also be known for something as unique as this, which in the end adds a ton of depth and longevity to the game. Now if your someone just reading this part and not the main part, well you missed the whole conversation, but for those that read it all, this again would be just a way to expand the game beyond the single player aspects.

I would if I was designing or coding, build this part with the concept in mind that the player will deal with issues the game throws at them. While the need to return will be there, it won't be the focal point till maybe a large plot line or quest. Eh I still say they had a good start in Awakening, if they took it just a bit further, I think it would have been epic beyond anything they have done. Then take that to the suggestion I just noted and dam that would be a fun addition to any rpg, don't really care who did it.

[Oerwinde]

So far I think Neverwinter Nights 2 handled this the best. Plenty to do in Crossroads keep, from upgrading guards weapons, to making trade deals, to upgrading walls, recruiting hirelings, etc, all culminating in a siege. I would like to see something like what Obsidian did with Crossroads Keep in NWN2, but bigger. Make it the main area of the game, and how it develops determines what sidequests you can get.

[xnode]

Good call Oerwinde, you know I never finished NW2 don't know why, loved the series, I might just re-install that just to get to do it Thnx

[Adanu]

I always enjoy stronghold type deals, and in a world in all out civil war, it would make sense.

Personally, I'd love it if we could actively participate in an ongoing battle. Like the attack on west harbor in neverwinter nights 2.

[Arppis]

LegendaryBlade wrote...

The Keep in Awakening was my favorite part of that game, so I 100% endorse this idea even though I only skimmed it.

[Uccio]

xnode wrote...

Well ok, so Bioware and fellow readers, I give you my ultimate idea for dragon age 3. For me, this has never been done and to be honest I never understood why. Then again maybe it has to do with what it would take, but then I see things in a simpler light.

- Ownership, Siege And My lord
*snip*

I´ve allways loved this idea. NWN2 had the keep with upgrading/finding enough soldiers(and training them)/smiths/delaing with merchants etc. That was awesome. The only thing ruined the experience was that when you had everything barely done the game ended. No exploring from your own keep etc. So I deffenetly would like to see this in DA series.

Modifié par Ukki, 25 mars 2012 - 02:13 .

[xnode]

Indeed...

Again they had this in Reckoning, but if they would have pushed it a bit further as described in the original post above, I think would be pretty dam epic and allow for so much after the game is done and players are looking for more DA3 goodness!

[KaiLyn]

I also would love a keep/stronghold! I couldn't believe that Hawke got a house in DA2 but the player couldn't do anything with it - bummer. I also loved the keep in NWN2 and would love to do more of that - Reckoning also had its multiple dwelling spots but their upgrades were sort of meh. If they could implement a system where a player could leave the building to a chancellor or be actively involved in choices of color and motif, that would be TRULY awesome.

[AkiKishi]

Google White Knight Chronicles which has a sort of sim building game as a part of it. You can pick people up from around the game world and send them to work in your villiage. Depending on the overall stats (depends on who is working and what job parts you have) what you can buy changes.

[KaiLyn]

BobSmith101 wrote...

Google White Knight Chronicles which has a sort of sim building game as a part of it. You can pick people up from around the game world and send them to work in your villiage. Depending on the overall stats (depends on who is working and what job parts you have) what you can buy changes.

I love this idea!  I watched a uTube video with Mike Laidlaw and David Gaider in which they discussed the party camp in DA:O vs each party member had their own home and the implementation of a better party camp system - Laidlaw said something like 'we can do a MUCH better party camp.'  In looking through this thread in that light, I was reminded how each of our party members dropped by Hawke's house in DA2 versus everyone hanging around Crossroads' Keep in NWN2, much like the party camp in DA:O and I think the latter is something Bioware sees as a bit unreal - so some blending of these ideas (buildable keep with the army/guard/vendor/design options, camp, place for party members to meet, etc.) would really help the feel of MY game for sure.  Some of the world planning ideas I've seen indicate we're going to be taking on a fairly big territory in DA3 so it would make sense if somewhere in all of that - hopefully somewhat centrally located - my party members and I have a place to lay our heads (so to speak), store our equipment and meet to discuss strategies, acquire new equipment, build an army or whatever without the Tevinter Mages or Orlesian Nobles hearing all that much.

Modifié par KaiLyn, 02 juin 2012 - 05:22 .

[nightcobra]

love having my own upgradeable fort, i loved it in suikoden games, i loved in neverwinter nights 2, i loved it in DA:awakenings and i would certainly love one for DA3

[brushyourteeth]

This was kind of what I expected from the Warden's Keep expansion with the promise of the place being cleaned up and new merchants and vassals moving in. It just never went all the way there.

I have to admit, I was skeptical about this idea in general but now that I think about what PychoBlonde said about holding a strategic chokepoint, having lands somewhere like Cumberland (where the College of Magi meet and the seat of the mage rebellion) would put you at the center of the action and in a strategic political position to be the mages' greatest ally or ultimate doom.

I sorta like that.

But as far as actually puttering around repairing walls and taxing peasants, I'd rather leave that out of DA completely. There are games that are meant to do that and do a much better job of it. I like my narrative-driven, dialogue-heavy DA and wouldn't want to take too many resources away from that.

I also really like the idea of living in a busy war camp. Having customizable banners and upgradeable tents would be super fun. Of course that's all a long shot, as I'm really just hoping we'll return to meaningful consequences and deeper companion interaction. Everything else is just icing.

Modifié par brushyourteeth, 02 juin 2012 - 05:41 .

[ajbry]

KaiLyn wrote...
I love this idea!  I watched a uTube video with Mike Laidlaw and David Gaider in which they discussed the party camp in DA:O vs each party member had their own home and the implementation of a better party camp system - Laidlaw said something like 'we can do a MUCH better party camp.'  In looking through this thread in that light, I was reminded how each of our party members dropped by Hawke's house in DA2 versus everyone hanging around Crossroads' Keep in NWN2, much like the party camp in DA:O and I think the latter is something Bioware sees as a bit unreal - so some blending of these ideas (buildable keep with the army/guard/vendor/design options, camp, place for party members to meet, etc.) would really help the feel of MY game for sure.  Some of the world planning ideas I've seen indicate we're going to be taking on a fairly big territory in DA3 so it would make sense if somewhere in all of that - hopefully somewhat centrally located - my party members and I have a place to lay our heads (so to speak), store our equipment and meet to discuss strategies, acquire new equipment, build an army or whatever without the Tevinter Mages or Orlesian Nobles hearing all that much.

This sounds perfect -- and plausible. Build on the concept of Vigil's Keep, really. We'd get a place where the party gathers, a place to customize, and a place to protect and enhance in the midst of conflict. It fits into the scheme of the game in every facet.

[Rorschachinstein]

Fable III tried this and failed terribly. But I believe it was just peter moneylux overselling.

"I want you to plant an acorn, and in a years, have it grow up"