161 réponses à ce sujet

[greywardencommander]

DrFrankenseuss wrote...

greywardencommander wrote...

DrFrankenseuss wrote...

If you're gonna believe in the indoctrination theory then you have to leave the possibility open that none of what you see actually reflects anything that is happening in the real world (the stuff going on outside of the Indoctrination dream sequence inside Shepherd's head, or mindlink with Harby, or whatever the hell it is). Maybe Shepherd is already fully indoctrinated and everything you see happening is meaningless. Maybe in reality shepherd is picked up by an Alliance squad and he/she is killing them all and aiding the Reapers to victory. Once you open the can of worms on the indoctrination theory, you're basically making up stuff about the indoctrination process itself.

There's no reason to believe that if someone was being indoctrinated in some mindspace outside of reality that there would be symbols within that space which actually correlates to anything happening in reality. There's no reason to believe that Saren, who was indoctrinated slowly to keep his usefullness, at any point seemed to think he was anywhere but in reality.

Oh yeah, and Bioware said they trashed the indoctrination idea post release. There's that too.

IDT is more of a hallucination theory it says nothing after harbingers beam is in reality i.e. he's not doing anything other than lying in the rubble as shown in the secret ending.

As for your second point what they said was it was trashed because of the gameplay mechanic and that the gameplay aspect of being indoctrination was dismissed. That doesn't necessarily mean they dismissed the entire concept of indoctrination just the idea of being indoctrinated in the basis of reality NOT a playout in the mind.

So Shep is lying in the rubble and picks a color. If Green or Blue they're indoctrinated. Then what happens? If Red indoctrination fails and if high enough military strength Shep lives, otherwise Shep dies. Then what happens?

Somehow Shep, lying in the rubble of London, gives into or overcomes indoctrination and the Crucible spontaneously triggers?

Nice to know you pay attention, I posted an entire thing two post above your post saying this about how my way of doing it (intended or not) would account for all three colours as well as people who legitimately want to synthesise or control the reapers in the definitive end.

Modifié par greywardencommander, 21 mars 2012 - 04:30 .

[JMA22TB]

Every time someone starts a thread like this I'm going to do this



Go through each of these points and show counterevidence to them. All of them.

If you can do that PM me

I'll be waiting

[thegame30]

spychi wrote...

 So I was going through the final push again and again and again trying to explain how that theory could save the endings from being bad.

After a long time, I realized that there is no place for it.
1) Shepard clearly gets pwned almost to death by Harby
2) High ranking officers and admirals saying that nobody make it through the beam
3) Harbringer pulls off as soon as he sees that everyone is dead or if barely alive a small group of husks can finish them off
4) Shepard talks to Hackett on the citadel
5) not to mention Anderson and TIM
 this might be attacked by the indoctrination theory defenders because of Shepard having hallucinations after the beam hitting but when you look at what is happening around you it doesn't make sense for him to be indoctrinated

If anything there should be fix for the choices you've made by gathering various allies and actual consequences
change the flashback scenes according to what you cared most based on you opinion through out the game - by talking to squadmates, crew or anyone, not by making those opinions paragon  or renegade but by being one of the options
In the flashbacks you could also involve everyone you had on your team for the past 3 games and you had a good relationship with. 
Based on the EMS score you should have a different result in those three endings and if you achived a 7k EMS and each class from the MP loaded in to your war assets you would get the best ending possible. Crew surviving relays intact... although those blow up no matter what...Shepard lives
but I remember someone suggested the different EMS and choices=different ending, which I saw on some picture put very clearly and well done.

Doesn't matter if it make sense or not the ending is space magic.
I'll give you 1 example of why nothing makes sense. When you get up after the blast, you hear NO ONE survive the attack. Hammer was wipe out retreat. Admiral Hackett has to be listening. So when you deal with TIM inside and Anderson "dies" . How does Hackett know your inside? The report was clear no one survive. So the part when he says Commander nothing is happening, has to be something on your end. This is clearly space magic!


Eveyone go and check this out atleast this makes a little sense.

[Peer of the Empire]

DrFrankenseuss wrote...
So Shep is lying in the rubble and picks a color. If Green or Blue they're indoctrinated. Then what happens? If Red indoctrination fails and if high enough military strength Shep lives, otherwise Shep dies. Then what happens?

DLC

[greywardencommander]

It doesn't matter at this stage whether intended or not IDT remains the easiest way to fix the endings with DLC which DOESN'T have to change a thing about the current endings (which would take longer, make the current game look awful if it's edited)

IDT DOES NOT say that the endings are the endings and it's indoctrination end of story it says THE endings are still to come because you are still knocked out by the beam

I have a way that the IDT works as DLC regardless of choice in the end (i.e how it can work if you're indoctrinated) also throw in some cool stuff about how decisions matter (such as the Geth vs Quarians and your colour choice), some cool cutscenes with your crew and the fleet you've assembled.

In my way you can even have control and synthesis if you genuinely think it's best.

I also think a 'DA:O coronation & epilogue' style (note coronation style in going up to people and them saying 'hey we did it blah blah blah i'm off back to the Citadel for some drinks etc', and the epilogue not just walls of text like in DA:O but in cutscenes, maybe even with voice over by Neil Ross the codex guy) at the end where you get told what happens with the major things in the game e.g. the Quarians, the Krogan, your living crew members and important people such as Anderson etc.

http://social.biowar.../index/10350970

Also regarding the IDT, at least we make an attempt to even give an idea for the new ending, everyone flaming IDT just says - bad writing, broken game - give me a different ending (which is what we're trying to do by saying the DLC is to come based on the IDT)

They don't say give any actual reasons why making the DLC based on 'we've won the indoctrination battle or we've lost depending on our final choice, let's carry on the game' isn't a good idea to 'fix the endings without actually changing anything about the current ones (which would take longer)

Modifié par greywardencommander, 23 mars 2012 - 09:04 .

[katamuro]

Why try to disprove a theory that you are not involved in? Do the people who believe in this have some kind of magical "bothering" effect on you that you have to disprove it? And anyway your 3 points are not nearly enough to disprove a theory that has more evidence.

[liggy002]

Indoctrination? No way! Shepard couldn't possibly be dreaming because the things that are happening to him after he gets hit by the beam are impossible. What is that they say? Space Magic!

[greywardencommander]

katamuro wrote...

Why try to disprove a theory that you are not involved in? Do the people who believe in this have some kind of magical "bothering" effect on you that you have to disprove it? And anyway your 3 points are not nearly enough to disprove a theory that has more evidence.

that and saying 'it doesn't fit blah blah blah' without providing any alternative way to do it without changing the ending which takes longer and would look awful and tacked on in the current game. 
At least IDT allows them to 'fix the endings' without actually having to go so far as to change anything about the ones in game at the minute

[liggy002]

Aaleel wrote...

Mbednar wrote...

Aaleel wrote...

What, you wake up on the hill and then go through the beam?  Then what's the catalyst then, how are you going to use the crucible?

Don't know. 

Didn't read it thoroughly. 

I think when you wake up, the beams gone and you make a final push on Earth with Anderson.  Don't know how the Crucible is involved.  I think it destroys the Reapers shield or something.

But you need a catalyst to make the Crucible work.  If it wasn't the space kid, you never found out what it was.  So you can't use the Crucible, and you can't win by conventional means.  So if you were indoctrinated, and the space kid was not the catalyst, under this theory you can't win.  Reapers win and everyone is harvested, see you in 50,000 years.

Nobody said that the Reapers won yet.  Just that Shepard didn't actually go into the beam according to the indoc theory.  DLC could address what really happens.

[Mcfly616]

@spychi

All the points you made to disprove the theory in the OP....well, they actually support the theory lol thanks for sharing

[Ozzelll]

So... why doesn't it fit? Your post only pointed out the things that make it more prbable..?

[Merwanor]

I have yet to see an explenation for the endings that is more believable than the indoc theory, I doubt it is actually true though, but one can always hope.... Which is what I thought was one important part of the Mass Effect series, to have hope that in the end we will succeed if we all just band together... Guess there is no hope after all.