133 réponses à ce sujet

[Tyrzun]

Talking about the Devs 101.

The moderators are pretty tolerant people really. You don't have to be afraid to express your opinions, but you must not belittle or attack the "person". You shouldn't do that in your real life. If you stick to the issue you'll be ok.

Pointing out Casey said 1 thing and then delivered another isn't an attack. It's a fact. Saying you don't trust him now because of it is a fact. You're still talking about the issue at hand. Not Casey.

I've no doubt that none of the people that work for Bioware are "bad" people. I think certain ones owe us big time apologies and they should fix what they did wrong.

The person I am most displeased with is Rey. Him saying what he said turned a ME 3 issue into a Bioware issue for me. Him defending what has happened now makes me distrust Bioware not just the ME 3 decision makers. Him saying what he said today was worst case scenario for me. I'd hoped that a higher up like himself would get involved and deliver what the devs said they would. Instead he sided with them. So, our issue is now a Bioware issue and not just an ME 3 issue.

This is a man I have the utmost respect for, because he gave us Bioware and the great games of the past, but now... he said all that. What was is now destroyed. I'm still hoping he wakes up and stop defending art and remembers we the long tie long time fans build his company up, not "artistic freedom". Artistic freedom didn't give him all he has. Making what the fans wanted did. Which was his "original" mission statement. Come back to us Rey.

Modifié par Tyrzun, 22 mars 2012 - 04:16 .

[Xenbus]

Cosmar wrote...

Dhraconus wrote...

I've been struggling with the fact that they apparently started ME1 without knowing where the trilogy was going. They honestly should have had the whole primary story arc, major plot points, and lore more or less planned out before ME1 shipped and stuck with it. This includes the ending of all 3 games, but especially the ending of the trilogy.

You don't start a major project with the plan "let's just wing it and make it up as we go."

Exactly. Especially with a story so intricate as Mass Effect. 

The "let's just wing it" attitude has been the bane of some book projects, like (the late) Robert Jordan's Wheen of Time series...great series overall, but if you read all the books, you can really get a feeling that he didn't really know where exactly he was going once you hit the middle books that seem to just kind of circle around and around slowly without really doing much. And now he's passed away, and a different author had to finish it... "just winging it" doesn't work so well with epic multi-volue franchises.

They did have an ending planned I think when they shipped ME1. One of the writers that left after one wrote an article on it that was linked earlier in this thread, that they had a planned out ending at that point, but clearly it got changed and they discarded the entire dark energy subplot.

That's just silly in my opinion.

[M12311]

The Angry One wrote...

I don't know but somebody dropped the ball here big time, that they thought we'd ever accept this garbage as the ending to a trilogy 5 years in the making is a sick joke.

Could not agree more

[BootyBamBoo]

My opinion is that EA probably made him do it. So we can keep talking about the ending and waiting for a $10 DLC with what? A 10 minute cut scene?

[WeAreLegionWTF]

[Violation of Rule #6 removed]

Modifié par Stanley Woo, 23 mars 2012 - 02:29 .

[Sawtooth357]

I can accept that ME1 might have been written without a concrete conclusion to the trilogy. Anytime you try to start what you hope to be a series, there's no guarantee that anyone is actually going to like it. I point out Too Human as a perfect example: whatever its merits or flaws, they designed and pushed it as the start of a trilogy and it was not well received and probably will never get its intended sequels. So I can believe that ME1 might have been designed alone, with ideas of where to go and the deliberate hooks and foreshadows in place, but nothing completely hammered out. And that's fine.

But after that, I just can't believe no thought went into how this would all end. After ME1 proved itself a hit, there must have been tons of brainstorming and ideas and plans hammered down. Did they change the ending because of a leak? I don't know, that doesn't seem the actions of a dedicated artist, if we believe games truly are art. As a long-time fan of the series, the moment I heard about those leaks flowing around the internet I flatly refused to investigate them, because I didn't want to know before my time and had faith in the writers.

In reality, I think they had much more planned. And as others have said, they ran out of time. Why they ran out of time I don't know. Pressure from above, emergencies during development that consumed too many resources, no one can tell us but the staff. I don't consider the slew of broken promises outright lies as some do. I believe in most of those interviews they believed they would deliver what they promised. And somewhere in the process something went wrong, and they had to piece together the actual ending because there just wasn't enough time.

In the end I can accept mistakes. I truly believe that what happened was an unfortunate mistake. And when mistakes are accepted and corrected they are often surprisingly easy to forgive. But it is their mistake, theirs to fix. I honestly believe the ending we all hoped for is there, on the drawing board, fleshed out in idea and concept but not in implementation. And I want to believe that they're willing to accept the mistake, swallow pride, and just finish the job now that they have time again.

I know that sounds foolishly optimistic to some, and indeed I grow more pessimistic about it with each PR release that doesn't really say anything clear or concrete. But I do truly believe the company ran out of time. The company did, and I really don't care if an individual writer is to blame. I want no one to lose a job, I don't bare any of the people any malice. It really doesn't matter. The company as a whole is what's to blame for running out of time, for whatever reason. And it's the company's issue to fix, not individual writers or technicians or whatever.

[randalbattalis]

BootyBamBoo wrote...

My opinion is that EA probably made him do it. So we can keep talking about the ending and waiting for a $10 DLC with what? A 10 minute cut scene?

At this point I doubt they are that clever.

I think he had just got done watching Matrix Reloaded and thought that it was the coolest movies ever.


If I was in the gaming industry I sure would not hire him to write any more endings in the future. Shesh how that ending scribble on a napkin got past every single person working at Bioware is just beyond me.

[Militarized]

Tyrzun wrote...

Talking about the Devs 101.

The moderators are pretty tolerant people really. You don't have to be afraid to express your opinions, but you must not belittle or attack the "person". You shouldn't do that in your real life. If you stick to the issue you'll be ok.

Pointing out Casey said 1 thing and then delivered another isn't an attack. It's a fact. Saying you don't trust him now because of it is a fact. You're still talking about the issue at hand. Not Casey.

I've no doubt that none of the people that work for Bioware are "bad" people. I think certain ones owe us big time apologies and they should fix what they did wrong.

The person I am most displeased with is Rey. Him saying what he said turned a ME 3 issue into a Bioware issue for me. Him defending what has happened now makes me distrust Bioware not just the ME 3 decision makers. Him saying what he said today was worst case scenario for me. I'd hoped that a higher up like himself would get involved and deliver what the devs said they would. Instead he sided with them. So, our issue is now a Bioware issue and not just an ME 3 issue.

This is a man I have the utmost respect for, because he gave us Bioware and the great games of the past, but now... he said all that. What was is now destroyed. I'm still hoping he wakes up and stop defending art and remembers we the long tie long time fans build his company up, not "artistic freedom". Artistic freedom didn't give him all he has. Making what the fans wanted did. Which was his "original" mission statement. Come back to us Rey.

I simply wanted to cover my bases, guess I'm learning from this mess . Thank you for that though. 

I actually hadn't considered it from that perspective and now that you say it... it kind of just sunk in. When I see the Bioware logo on stuff I simply think "Bioware as a whole" and I don't generally think of them as seperate entitites even though they are. Hopefully he does come back to his original mission statemnt, if what you say is true . I remember Baldurs Gate way back when I was younger, didn't play it cause I was to young but was always told it was an amazing game.... hrm. We'll see in April I suppose. 

[tommythetomcat]

I'd just like to point out that from that final hours thing it mentioned trying to get indoctrination of Shepard working right for the ending but it didn't work out. I'm just assuming they wanted to really make the ending something solid and try to live up to their hype, but in the end it wasn't working as they intended it to, so now we have the odd and sparely pieced together ending cutscenes that are unsatisfying and making no contextual sense(Joker leaving).

I still feel like they have something up their sleeve to fix this tragically unsatisfactory ending but they better have something good to say at PAX or I'll be hanging up my BioWare pom poms.

Modifié par tommythetomcat, 24 mars 2012 - 01:29 .