350 réponses à ce sujet

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

Well after watching the ending 4 times.... with 4 times of disbelief I found the whole thing best served by not trying to delve deeply into it. The solution is the simplest one. The cake is a lie. The only way to wake up is to choose RED. Shepard is still on the ground. Magical thinking doesn't work.

[Edje Edgar]

Solmanian wrote...

Edje Edgar wrote...

111987 wrote...

I disagree. If you wipe out advanced organic civilizations, there is no way synthetics or AI's will come into existence on their own.

As far as you know, did organic life not come into existance on it's own aswell? We cannot look into the future, that's why we do what we can while we hope for the best.

That's also why, morally speaking, mankind no longer accepts the idea of sacrificing people so one of infinite possibilites MIGHT be averted. It's considered deeply immoral, and by accepting starchilds premise Shephard has also become deeply immoral. And that's why I hate the ending.

Do you understand what the word synthetic means? It means artificially created. For example, the autobots aren't synthetic since they evolved on their own. The cylons are synthetic, since they were created by man.

Actually it's just non-natural. Not necessarily man made. A god could make synthetic creatures, in which case they would not be made by advanced life. I'm not saying it's likely, I'm saying it's one of infinite possibilities that the future hold. It's impossible to say this or that won't happen in the future, because we simply cannot know for CERTAIN untill it's happened.

[Cody211282]

Dav3VsTh3World wrote...

Ingu wrote...

I realise the title may sound like flame bait, but I'm genuinely curious as to why people seem to seriously like it. How do they ignore the gaping plot holes re. the Mass Effect relays and the Normandy's, that is, Joker and your whole team's out of character retreat?

Well firstly I'd be glad to answer these

The Mass Relays destroyed is not a plot hole, not sure what point you're talking about here if your talking about the energy not destroying everything this is where the whole change of color part which everyone is complaining about comes into play, notice how the color of the energy wave in the cruicible is identical to that of the Mass Relays but when Shepard makes his choice the colour changes, Whats happened is that its energy form has changed to become non lethal (or lethal in the worst destroy ending) notice how in the bad control and destroy endings the buildings of London get destroyed but they remain intact in the good endings, I'm willing to bet that it was the Crucible that changed the wave length, this was mentioned by the "god child" so I guess having scientific war assets paid off in the end.

Also should note that in the control endings the Citidel and Relays don't actually get distroyed, similar wavelength making them able to whidthstand it perhaps?

As for Joker running away from the explosion, the answer to that is exactly the same reason why you would run out of a burning building. If you see a massive explosion coming at you, your main instinct to survive would be to run rather than to sit there and possibly die. There's no way of knowing what that energy actually does just by looking at it.

The reason why I did enjoy the ending is it's main ultimate burdon at the end: Do you commit genocide against all synthetic life to save organic? Do you rule all life both organic and synthetic with an Iron fist by doing what the most powerful killing machines in the Universe do as you choose? Or do you put an end to diversity and make everyone equal possibly allowing all races to see each other as equals and possibly allowing lesser adaptable species (The Quarians) the gift to survive any climate since they're now partially synthetic?

I will say this however the fact that all 3 endings recycle the same footage where the wave is simply colour corrected in Final Cut is pretty lazy, I can understand the inner message (something a lot of people clearly are struggling with) but the execution probably could have had a little more TLC.

For the joker thing it's implied he is in the relay network before you make you pick what color you like best, and that beam is distructive because to crashes the normendy.

As for other plot holes, well I have a whole list of them but I think that there is no reason to pull that out right now.

[RockSW]

it amazes me ppl are looking for some deep meaning in these **** endings, then they have the nerve to call ppl who want a real one "entitled".

garbage is garbage, just b/c bioware made it doesn't make it good.

[Solmanian]

I liked to the ending because it was just that: an ending. It sealed the Shepard story arc, allowing the MEverse to evolve in different directions. If ME4 will have Shepard as the protagonist, I'll be extremely diassappointed. But I didn't like that it left so many loose ends, and had alot of things that didn't make sense. By the time it was over, I didn't even know if I just saved all sentient life, or wiped out galactic civilization.

[Stealthy Cake]

Because some people favor loopholes and cliffhangers?, i dunno... D:

[Edje Edgar]

Dav3VsTh3World wrote...

Well firstly I'd be glad to answer these

The Mass Relays destroyed is not a plot hole, not sure what point you're talking about here if your talking about the energy not destroying everything this is where the whole change of color part which everyone is complaining about comes into play, notice how the color of the energy wave in the cruicible is identical to that of the Mass Relays but when Shepard makes his choice the colour changes, Whats happened is that its energy form has changed to become non lethal (or lethal in the worst destroy ending) notice how in the bad control and destroy endings the buildings of London get destroyed but they remain intact in the good endings, I'm willing to bet that it was the Crucible that changed the wave length, this was mentioned by the "god child" so I guess having scientific war assets paid off in the end.

Also should note that in the control endings the Citidel and Relays don't actually get distroyed, similar wavelength making them able to whidthstand it perhaps?

As for Joker running away from the explosion, the answer to that is exactly the same reason why you would run out of a burning building. If you see a massive explosion coming at you, your main instinct to survive would be to run rather than to sit there and possibly die. There's no way of knowing what that energy actually does just by looking at it.

The reason why I did enjoy the ending is it's main ultimate burdon at the end: Do you commit genocide against all synthetic life to save organic? Do you rule all life both organic and synthetic with an Iron fist by doing what the most powerful killing machines in the Universe do as you choose? Or do you put an end to diversity and make everyone equal possibly allowing all races to see each other as equals and possibly allowing lesser adaptable species (The Quarians) the gift to survive any climate since they're now partially synthetic?

I will say this however the fact that all 3 endings recycle the same footage where the wave is simply colour corrected in Final Cut is pretty lazy, I can understand the inner message (something a lot of people clearly are struggling with) but the execution probably could have had a little more TLC.

And this idea of synthesis being the "good" ending is exactly the ending that claims that if all humans were brown there wouldn't be conflict. I refute the starchilds premise that genetics have anything to do with conflicts. It's ideas that cause conflict, not whatever is in your genes.

[Chk-2000]

Solmanian wrote...

I liked to the ending because it was just that: an ending. It sealed the Shepard story arc, allowing the MEverse to evolve in different directions. If ME4 will have Shepard as the protagonist, I'll be extremely diassappointed. But I didn't like that it left so many loose ends, and had alot of things that didn't make sense. By the time it was over, I didn't even know if I just saved all sentient life, or wiped out galactic civilization.

Most people have no problem with Shepard dying "for the greater good" in the end. But most are disappointed that he has NO CHOICE but to send the whole galaxy into a new dark age first.

[HenchxNarf]

Chk-2000 wrote...

Solmanian wrote...

I liked to the ending because it was just that: an ending. It sealed the Shepard story arc, allowing the MEverse to evolve in different directions. If ME4 will have Shepard as the protagonist, I'll be extremely diassappointed. But I didn't like that it left so many loose ends, and had alot of things that didn't make sense. By the time it was over, I didn't even know if I just saved all sentient life, or wiped out galactic civilization.

Most people have no problem with Shepard dying "for the greater good" in the end. But most are disappointed that he has NO CHOICE but to send the whole galaxy into a new dark age first.

I think that was the point though. I think the cycle was meant to start over, and there was no way to really stop it.

[GodChildInTheMachine]

Dav3VsTh3World wrote...


The reason why I did enjoy the ending is it's main ultimate burdon at the end: Do you commit genocide against all synthetic life to save organic? Do you rule all life both organic and synthetic with an Iron fist by doing what the most powerful killing machines in the Universe do as you choose? Or do you put an end to diversity and make everyone equal possibly allowing all races to see each other as equals and possibly allowing lesser adaptable species (The Quarians) the gift to survive any climate since they're now partially synthetic?

You do realise that this is the burden of eugenicists, racially motivated warlords and fascists, right?

Since when would a Paragon Shepard accept these as solutions? Especially since he has spent years promoting the cooperation and coexistence of diverse peoples, and is motivated by a belief in the freedom of the will and spirit.

[shurryy]

EionaCousland wrote...

Because everyone has different opinions/ personal preferences. I wasn't happy with the endings, but I find it kind of freaky how people who were are getting flamed all over this place.

When they put themselves on a silver plate and slap a sticker that says "Flame Bait" on their foreheads, of course they will get flamed. 

[Kreid]

Basicly everyone is stuck in the sol system, and will probably starve to death.

How so? Afaik all the FTL ships work, you realize most sci-fi universes sustain themselves without the shortcut that Mass Effecr Relays are right?

[Chk-2000]

HenchxNarf wrote...

Chk-2000 wrote...

Solmanian wrote...

I liked to the ending because it was just that: an ending. It sealed the Shepard story arc, allowing the MEverse to evolve in different directions. If ME4 will have Shepard as the protagonist, I'll be extremely diassappointed. But I didn't like that it left so many loose ends, and had alot of things that didn't make sense. By the time it was over, I didn't even know if I just saved all sentient life, or wiped out galactic civilization.

Most people have no problem with Shepard dying "for the greater good" in the end. But most are disappointed that he has NO CHOICE but to send the whole galaxy into a new dark age first.

I think that was the point though. I think the cycle was meant to start over, and there was no way to really stop it.

But with the relays AND the citadel gone, can there be a new cycle?

[HenchxNarf]

Chk-2000 wrote...

HenchxNarf wrote...

Chk-2000 wrote...

Solmanian wrote...

I liked to the ending because it was just that: an ending. It sealed the Shepard story arc, allowing the MEverse to evolve in different directions. If ME4 will have Shepard as the protagonist, I'll be extremely diassappointed. But I didn't like that it left so many loose ends, and had alot of things that didn't make sense. By the time it was over, I didn't even know if I just saved all sentient life, or wiped out galactic civilization.

Most people have no problem with Shepard dying "for the greater good" in the end. But most are disappointed that he has NO CHOICE but to send the whole galaxy into a new dark age first.

I think that was the point though. I think the cycle was meant to start over, and there was no way to really stop it.

But with the relays AND the citadel gone, can there be a new cycle?

By starting over? Life has a way of surviving no matter what the odds.

The relays can be rebuilt, the citadel can be rebuilt. It was destroyed in ME1.

[Solmanian]

Edje Edgar wrote...

Solmanian wrote...

Do you understand what the word synthetic means? It means artificially created. For example, the autobots aren't synthetic since they evolved on their own. The cylons are synthetic, since they were created by man.

Actually it's just non-natural. Not necessarily man made. A god could make synthetic creatures, in which case they would not be made by advanced life. I'm not saying it's likely, I'm saying it's one of infinite possibilities that the future hold. It's impossible to say this or that won't happen in the future, because we simply cannot know for CERTAIN untill it's happened.

By that definition, according to the bible and most creation stories of the various belief, humanity is a synthetic race... If optimus prime can transform into a truck, does that make him "unnatural", or is it no different than a camilion changing its colors? When humanity will inevitably encounter alian life (I won't say when and where, but it's just statiscaly inevitable), I can guarantee it will be vastly different than human life. And even if it will be energy based or something equally exotic, I wouldn't make them unnatural. It simply be natural to their species...

[GodChildInTheMachine]

HenchxNarf wrote...


I think that was the point though. I think the cycle was meant to start over, and there was no way to really stop it.

That makes the entire story of the current cycle and Commander Shepard infinitesimally pointless.

[HenchxNarf]

GodChildInTheMachine wrote...

HenchxNarf wrote...


I think that was the point though. I think the cycle was meant to start over, and there was no way to really stop it.

That makes the entire story of the current cycle and Commander Shepard infinitesimally pointless.

Not really. It was said the Reapers come every 50,000 years. It wouldn't make Shepard pointless. He/She saved who they could.

[Erixxxx]

111987 wrote...

Maybe those people are willing to look past the plot holes to see the message behind them, to explore and think critically about the issues and themes raised, etc...

I happen to be one of those people. I know very well that the ending isn't perfect, but it's still a conclusion to the trilogy. The trilogy revolves around Shepard stopping the reapers, which he succeeds at in the end. What happens with the rest of the galaxy should be addressed in future content/games, and I have no problem with open endings like that.

[Simpfan]

Its what I expected to happen.
I expected the Citadal to boom
I expected the Relays to boom
I expected a deus ex machina device to be the cause of the boom

[Chk-2000]

HenchxNarf wrote...

Chk-2000 wrote...

HenchxNarf wrote...

Chk-2000 wrote...

Solmanian wrote...

I liked to the ending because it was just that: an ending. It sealed the Shepard story arc, allowing the MEverse to evolve in different directions. If ME4 will have Shepard as the protagonist, I'll be extremely diassappointed. But I didn't like that it left so many loose ends, and had alot of things that didn't make sense. By the time it was over, I didn't even know if I just saved all sentient life, or wiped out galactic civilization.

Most people have no problem with Shepard dying "for the greater good" in the end. But most are disappointed that he has NO CHOICE but to send the whole galaxy into a new dark age first.

I think that was the point though. I think the cycle was meant to start over, and there was no way to really stop it.

But with the relays AND the citadel gone, can there be a new cycle?

By starting over? Life has a way of surviving no matter what the odds.

The relays can be rebuilt, the citadel can be rebuilt. It was destroyed in ME1.

Some kind of life, yes. But I think the galactic civilization as it is, is doomed without the relays. And as "life" would have continued even if nobody had opposed the reapers (with better prospects for the future thanks to intact relays), the whole fight was ultimately pointless. BTW: The citadel was only damaged in ME1.

Modifié par Chk-2000, 21 mars 2012 - 09:52 .

[Chk-2000]

Double post. Sorry

Modifié par Chk-2000, 21 mars 2012 - 09:52 .

[FoxShadowblade]

Bad execution, goes against the major themes of ME, never really hinted at in previous stories, goes against Shepard's character, holes left in plot, no real closure, lame as hell stargazer ending, previous choices have no real impact....

I honestly don't know why people could like it or think it's deep...maybe cause it looks pretty? Maybe any ending is good enough for them, who knows? It certainly isn't good enough for many others. I have no problem with people supporting the ending, I just wish some of them didn't troll or make threads about how an ending dlc shouldn't happen.

[GodChildInTheMachine]

HenchxNarf wrote...




Not really. It was said the Reapers come every 50,000 years. It wouldn't make Shepard pointless. He/She saved who they could.

While that may have been their intent, and I could appreciate it if I found it somewhere else, why on earth would anyone think that's a good idea to put into interactive media like Mass Effect?

Would you have started playing the first Mass Effect if it warned you at the beginning that you will have no positive outcome on the face of the story, but you might be able to save who you can?

Modifié par GodChildInTheMachine, 21 mars 2012 - 09:58 .

[Robhuzz]

FoxShadowblade wrote...

Bad execution, goes against the major themes of ME, never really hinted at in previous stories, goes against Shepard's character, holes left in plot, no real closure, lame as hell stargazer ending, previous choices have no real impact....

I honestly don't know why people could like it or think it's deep...maybe cause it looks pretty? Maybe any ending is good enough for them, who knows? It certainly isn't good enough for many others. I have no problem with people supporting the ending, I just wish some of them didn't troll or make threads about how an ending dlc shouldn't happen.

Maybe they just had VERY VERY low expectations? They then saw that the ending was as bad as they expected so they can live with it.

[AtreiyaN7]

quote]The Angry One wrote...

[quote]AtreiyaN7 wrote...

There are those of us who can see hope in the ME3 endings, or at least the Synthesis ending in my case. C'est la vie - I don't particularly are if you believe they represent doom and despair and. You want to experience real despair/bleakness? Try reading I Have No Mouth, and I Must Scream, and then get back to me after you do. Great story by Harlan Ellison, yet it has one of the darkest endings I've ever read. ME3's ending is positively giddy in comparison to it - especially since people clearly survive in the post-ME3 future.
[/quote]

A handful of people survive. On one planet. Likely the same Joker landed on.
So a handful of inbred descendants of the Normandy crew are all that's left to show for our efforts.

Also it's funny you mention I Have No Mouth and I Must Scream, considering the game version of that book had more ending variations than ME3, including less bleak outcomes. Even though it's a story about people who want to die because they're kept alive by a machine that wants to torture them forever. Irony?

[/quote]

You have exactly zero proof that all that survives out of the entire galaxy is a handful of the Normandy crew's descendants or that life is somehow snuffed out on every other planet in the galaxy. But I'm not really that surprised to see you try to claim that your opinion is fact. The coda indicates that people survived, whoever they are, wherever they are. One can extrapolate that if people survived on the mystery planet from the coda, it's quite probable that other people already living on other planets also survived. Or do you have a decent hypothesis about how one planet in a random star system is miraculously untouched while every other planet somehow turned into a lifeless wasteland? This should probably be when you say "space magic" or something. *snort*

Furthermore, I clearly said to try reading the story. Did the game based on it have multiple outcome? Yes, and from what I hear, they were well done - but then, it was a singular adventure game as opposed to an aRPG trilogy with multiple threads and cascading outcomes to deal with. I suggested the short story specifically because it shows a world that represents an unrelenting hell with no hope and no future for what's left of humanity, along with a particularly nasty fate for the protagonist. It's a story with an end that's truly bleak and horrifying (unlike the ME3 endings). And no, it's not ironic to me at all because the situations are so vastly different.

AM, as you should know, is a sadistic AI who is intent upon inflicting an eternity of pain on the last remaining group of humans that it keeps alive; it's malicious and seeks to torture them both psychologically and physically. No matter how you want to try to paint the Catalyst and the Reapers, what they do is nothing like what AM does to its prisoners. The two AIs couldn't be more different - just like HAL-9000 or Data or even Lore are all different from each other. In fact the Catalyst, unlike AM, gives you several outs for the survival of your species - including the destruction of itself, the Reapers and all synthetic life. If you think the Catalyst is "bad," try imagining AM with the level of power over the galaxy, not just one planet.

Then you'd have something to justifiably be worried about. Below is what AM says to Ted when they're alone at one point in the story:

"HATE. LET ME TELL YOU HOW MUCH I'VE COME TO HATE YOU SINCE I BEGAN TO LIVE. THERE ARE 387.44 MILLION MILES OF PRINTED CIRCUITS IN WAFER THIN LAYERS THAT FILL MY COMPLEX. IF THE WORD HATE WAS ENGRAVED ON EACH NANOANGSTROM OF THOSE HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS OF MILES IT WOULD NOT EQUAL ONE ONE-BILLIONTH OF THE HATE I FEEL FOR HUMANS AT THIS MICRO-INSTANT FOR YOU. HATE. HATE."

That is...a very, very deeply disturbed AI. The difference between its unreasoning hatred and the Catalyst's seeming calmness/detachment and rational behavior is quite striking actually.

Modifié par AtreiyaN7, 21 mars 2012 - 10:04 .