350 réponses à ce sujet

[AtreiyaN7]

The Angry One wrote...

A handful of people survive. On one planet. Likely the same Joker landed on.
So a handful of inbred descendants of the Normandy crew are all that's left to show for our efforts.

Also it's funny you mention I Have No Mouth and I Must Scream, considering the game version of that book had more ending variations than ME3, including less bleak outcomes. Even though it's a story about people who want to die because they're kept alive by a machine that wants to torture them forever. Irony?

You have exactly zero proof that all that survives out of the entire galaxy is a handful of the Normandy crew's descendants or that life is somehow snuffed out on every other planet in the galaxy. But I'm not really that surprised to see you try to claim that your opinion is fact. The coda indicates that people survived, whoever they are, wherever they are. One can extrapolate that if people survived on the mystery planet from the coda, it's quite probable that other people already living on other planets also survived. Or do you have a decent hypothesis about how one planet in a random star system is miraculously untouched while every other planet somehow turned into a lifeless wasteland? This should probably be when you say "space magic" or something. *snort*

Furthermore, I clearly said to try reading the story. Did the game based on it have multiple outcome? Yes, and from what I hear, they were well done - but then, it was a singular adventure game as opposed to an aRPG trilogy with multiple threads and cascading outcomes to deal with. I suggested the short story specifically because it shows a world that represents an unrelenting hell with no hope and no future for what's left of humanity, along with a particularly nasty fate for the protagonist. It's a story with an end that's truly bleak and horrifying (unlike the ME3 endings). And no, it's not ironic to me at all because the situations are so vastly different.

AM, as you should know, is a sadistic AI who is intent upon inflicting an eternity of pain on the last remaining group of humans that it keeps alive; it's malicious and seeks to torture them both psychologically and physically. No matter how you want to try to paint the Catalyst and the Reapers, what they do is nothing like what AM does to its prisoners. The two AIs couldn't be more different - just like HAL-9000 or Data or even Lore are all different from each other. In fact the Catalyst, unlike AM, gives you several outs for the survival of your species - including the destruction of itself, the Reapers and all synthetic life. If you think the Catalyst is "bad," try imagining AM wielding power over a whole galaxy, not just one planet.

Then you'd have something to justifiably be worried about and a true reason to feel some measure of despair. Below is what AM says to Ted when they're alone at one point in the story:

"HATE. LET ME TELL YOU HOW MUCH I'VE COME TO HATE YOU SINCE I BEGAN TO LIVE. THERE ARE 387.44 MILLION MILES OF PRINTED CIRCUITS IN WAFER THIN LAYERS THAT FILL MY COMPLEX. IF THE WORD HATE WAS ENGRAVED ON EACH NANOANGSTROM OF THOSE HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS OF MILES IT WOULD NOT EQUAL ONE ONE-BILLIONTH OF THE HATE I FEEL FOR HUMANS AT THIS MICRO-INSTANT FOR YOU. HATE. HATE."

That is...a very deeply disturbed AI. The difference between its unreasoning hatred and the Catalyst's seeming calmness/detachment and rational behavior is quite striking actually.

Modifié par AtreiyaN7, 21 mars 2012 - 10:11 .

[FoxShadowblade]

@Robhuzz

Possibly, I know I had high expectations. Atleast on par with the first two endings, if not better.

[Dav3VsTh3World]

Cody211282 wrote...

For the joker thing it's implied he is in the relay network before you make you pick what color you like best,

Not really he's just in FTL ... jumping between Systems within the Local Cluster which doesn't rely on the Mass Relays, the Relay network teleports ships at instant speeds, we wouldn't see him moving the ship if he was using the relays

Cody211282 wrote...
 and that beam is distructive because to crashes the normendy.

Clearly there's no way Joker knows it doesn't kill him until AFTER IT HITS HIM, thats like saying. If you're suggesting he stays put to see what the big ass explosion does to him that's like saying: "Oh look fire, I wonder what happens if I touch it"

Modifié par Dav3VsTh3World, 21 mars 2012 - 10:15 .

[HenchxNarf]

EternalAmbiguity wrote...

FoxShadowblade wrote...
I have no problem with people supporting the ending, I just wish some of them didn't troll or make threads about how an ending dlc shouldn't happen.

Are you kidding? If the people that suppport the ending are the equivalent of a grenade, the people trolling and flaming on the other side of the fence are a f*cking supernova.

To clarify: Not liking the endings is fine. Saying everyone who does is wrong, and spewwing insults at them isn't.

Very very well said.

[fayt002]

people that like the ending are people that are swayed by politicans commercials. they just take it at face value.

[HenchxNarf]

fayt002 wrote...

people that like the ending are people that are swayed by politicans commercials. they just take it at face value.

You couldn't be more wrong, but thanks for the assumption.

[GodChildInTheMachine]

AtreiyaN7 wrote...


You have exactly zero proof that all that survives out of the entire galaxy is a handful of the Normandy crew's descendants or that life is somehow snuffed out on every other planet in the galaxy. But I'm not really that surprised to see you try to claim that your opinion is fact. The coda indicates that people survived, whoever they are, wherever they are. One can extrapolate that if people survived on the mystery planet from the coda, it's quite probable that other people already living on other planets also survived. Or do you have a decent hypothesis about how one planet in a random star system is miraculously untouched while every other planet somehow turned into a lifeless wasteland? This should probably be when you say "space magic" or something. *snort*

Furthermore, I clearly said to try reading the story. Did the game based on it have multiple outcome? Yes, and from what I hear, they were well done - but then, it was a singular adventure game as opposed to an aRPG trilogy with multiple threads and cascading outcomes to deal with. I suggested the short story specifically because it shows a world that represents an unrelenting hell with no hope and no future for what's left of humanity, along with a particularly nasty fate for the protagonist. It's a story with an end that's truly bleak and horrifying (unlike the ME3 endings). And no, it's not ironic to me at all because the situations are so vastly different.

AM, as you should know, is a sadistic AI who is intent upon inflicting an eternity of pain on the last remaining group of humans that it keeps alive; it's malicious and seeks to torture them both psychologically and physically. No matter how you want to try to paint the Catalyst and the Reapers, what they do is nothing like what AM does to its prisoners. The two AIs couldn't be more different - just like HAL-9000 or Data or even Lore are all different from each other. In fact the Catalyst, unlike AM, gives you several outs for the survival of your species - including the destruction of itself, the Reapers and all synthetic life. If you think the Catalyst is "bad," try imagining AM wielding power over a whole galaxy, not just one planet.

Then you'd have something to justifiably be worried about and a true reason to feel some measure of despair. Below is what AM says to Ted when they're alone at one point in the story:

"HATE. LET ME TELL YOU HOW MUCH I'VE COME TO HATE YOU SINCE I BEGAN TO LIVE. THERE ARE 387.44 MILLION MILES OF PRINTED CIRCUITS IN WAFER THIN LAYERS THAT FILL MY COMPLEX. IF THE WORD HATE WAS ENGRAVED ON EACH NANOANGSTROM OF THOSE HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS OF MILES IT WOULD NOT EQUAL ONE ONE-BILLIONTH OF THE HATE I FEEL FOR HUMANS AT THIS MICRO-INSTANT FOR YOU. HATE. HATE."

That is...a very deeply disturbed AI. The difference between its unreasoning hatred and the Catalyst's seeming calmness/detachment and rational behavior is quite striking actually.

There is clearly is no parallel between Mass Effect and I Have No Mouth And I Must Scream...

I don't think there's a relative diagnostic hierarchy of fictional A.I. personality disorders.

And Angry is right about the endings to the video game version. There were multiple stages of endings with drastically different results and implications - not just ones you had to imagine.

[Dav3VsTh3World]

EternalAmbiguity wrote...

FoxShadowblade wrote...
I have no problem with people supporting the ending, I just wish some of them didn't troll or make threads about how an ending dlc shouldn't happen.

Are you kidding? If the people that suppport the ending are the equivalent of a grenade, the people trolling and flaming on the other side of the fence are a f*cking supernova.

To clarify: Not liking the endings is fine. Saying everyone who does is wrong, and spewwing insults at them isn't.

Can I just say that IMO pushing for a change in the ending just because someone didn't like it is just principally wrong, after all its Casey Hudson that's telling the main story here with the main wheels set in motion. Telling a storyteller to change his/her ending ends up ruining the entire premisis and in most cases ends up with a rushed sterile generic ending that's unoriginal because "Thats what people wanted"

[Dridengx]

Ingu wrote...

I realise the title may sound like flame bait, but I'm genuinely curious as to why people seem to seriously like it. How do they ignore the gaping plot holes

We don't ignore the plot holes. I saw the story for what it was, what it told me and everything it hinted at. I put it all together. I didn't need a cutscene or epilogue showing me, I knew. It would seem a small minority of you do have trouble with such a higher intellectual storyline and require assistance, asistance I do not have the patience for unfortunately. i will however wish you the best that someone else, perhaps even Bioware will explain to you in further detail in the upcoming weeks

[Warden130]

Why do people have differant opinions?

[AtreiyaN7]

GodChildInTheMachine wrote...


There is clearly is no parallel between Mass Effect and I Have No Mouth And I Must Scream...

I don't think there's a relative diagnostic hierarchy of fictional A.I. personality disorders.

And Angry is right about the endings to the video game version. There were multiple stages of endings with drastically different results and implications - not just ones you had to imagine.

Which has nothing to do with what I'm talking about, as I was using the actual short story as an example of a truly bleak, hopeless ending.

[HenchxNarf]

Dridengx wrote...

Ingu wrote...

I realise the title may sound like flame bait, but I'm genuinely curious as to why people seem to seriously like it. How do they ignore the gaping plot holes

We don't ignore the plot holes. I saw the story for what it was, what it told me and everything it hinted at. I put it all together. I didn't need a cutscene or epilogue showing me, I knew. It would seem a small minority of you do have trouble with such a higher intellectual storyline and require assistance, asistance I do not have the patience for unfortunately. i will however wish you the best that someone else, perhaps even Bioware will explain to you in further detail in the upcoming weeks

+1 for you Glen Coco

[evisneffo]

EionaCousland wrote...

Because everyone has different opinions/ personal preferences. I wasn't happy with the endings, but I find it kind of freaky how people who were are getting flamed all over this place.

This. As Samara says, "If three humans are in a room, there will be six opinions."

The flaming makes me sad too. Horribly counterproductive. That's the internet though, unfortunately.

[Dav3VsTh3World]

fayt002 wrote...

people that like the ending are people that are swayed by politicans commercials. they just take it at face value.

Can I just make a point about this? What gives people in the louder crowd the right to insult people that don't agree with them? And make claims that they're dumb or being bought out? Why can't these people accept that there are people out there freely have a different opinion than they do, hell its what the Premisis of Freedom of Speech is all about, you may not like what the opposing party says but that doesn't give you the right to slander them and tell them to shut up.

[Cody211282]

Dav3VsTh3World wrote...

Cody211282 wrote...

For the joker thing it's implied he is in the relay network before you make you pick what color you like best,

Not really he's just in FTL ... jumping between Systems within the Local Cluster which doesn't rely on the Mass Relays, the Relay network teleports ships at instant speeds, we wouldn't see him moving the ship if he was using the relays

Cody211282 wrote...
 and that beam is distructive because to crashes the normendy.

Clearly there's no way Joker knows it doesn't kill him until AFTER IT HITS HIM, thats like saying. If you're suggesting he stays put to see what the big ass explosion does to him that's like saying: "Oh look fire, I wonder what happens if I touch it"

1- That beam was only in the relay network, and he wouldnt have gotten to a lush undiscovered garden world via FTL.

2- If he is in the relay(thats what I'm going off of) he left the battle way before that thing started to blow. Why would Joker turn coward at the last moment when every time before this he has look at death and laughed, hell in ME2 he was ready to die just so he didn't have to leave the ship in the begining.

[GodChildInTheMachine]

AtreiyaN7 wrote...

GodChildInTheMachine wrote...


There is clearly is no parallel between Mass Effect and I Have No Mouth And I Must Scream...

I don't think there's a relative diagnostic hierarchy of fictional A.I. personality disorders.

And Angry is right about the endings to the video game version. There were multiple stages of endings with drastically different results and implications - not just ones you had to imagine.

Which has nothing to do with what I'm talking about, as I was using the actual short story as an example of a truly bleak, hopeless ending.

Yeah, but Harlan Ellison obviously wrote it with the intention of making it as absolutely bleak as possible. Like existential terror bleak. It's no surprise that there would be a gap between that and a simple galactic dark age.

[HenchxNarf]

Dav3VsTh3World wrote...

fayt002 wrote...

people that like the ending are people that are swayed by politicans commercials. they just take it at face value.

Can I just make a point about this? What gives people in the louder crowd the right to insult people that don't agree with them? And make claims that they're dumb or being bought out? Why can't these people accept that there are people out there freely have a different opinion than they do, hell its what the Premisis of Freedom of Speech is all about, you may not like what the opposing party says but that doesn't give you the right to slander them and tell them to shut up.

They don't know how to let anyone have an opinion other than their own.

Now, not all of them are like this, but enough of them are.

[Chk-2000]

Dav3VsTh3World wrote...

fayt002 wrote...

people that like the ending are people that are swayed by politicans commercials. they just take it at face value.

Can I just make a point about this? What gives people in the louder crowd the right to insult people that don't agree with them? And make claims that they're dumb or being bought out? Why can't these people accept that there are people out there freely have a different opinion than they do, hell its what the Premisis of Freedom of Speech is all about, you may not like what the opposing party says but that doesn't give you the right to slander them and tell them to shut up.

But I don't want them to shut up. I want them to speak up. Not to why they like the endings. I can understand that. It's a matter of opinion and everybody is entitled to his own. But I want to know why they are so opposed to a (considerable) part of the community asking Bioware to release alternate endings as an optional DLC. It does not hurt them or their experience of the game, does it?

[Poison_Berrie]

Geneaux486 wrote...

Protests of lack of plot continuity ring hollow. The Crucble functions as it was predicted to, and the Catalyst's explanation of his solution and the reason it could no longer work was hinted at as early as the first Mass Effect game.

That's like building a furnace far in your back yard to burn some junk and have it burn your house down as part of the process. 
Yes the junks been burned, but how and why did my house burn down when they where not close enough to each other?
Also I'd like to see those hints?

Geneaux486 wrote...

They bring emergency supplies, rations, and get fuel from nearby planets, the same way you do on the Galaxy Map.  Did you think the Mass relays magically generated fuel for those depots?  The only way your logic works is if the races of the galaxy just say "Whelp, we're done" and sit around and die.

Fuel is gathered, by stations and miners (unless you have scoop-ship, but none of the warships seem to be build like that). They need functioning stations along the way to aid them. 
Fact: Most of the galaxy they colonized was set around relays. Not every place is accesable by relay. Stretches between their destination and starting point are going to be large swats of no-mans land with no infrastructure to support your travel.
Fact: Eezo is rare. Most of the places get theirs via importing.
These two facts make the journey home a treacherous journey which will most likely leave you stranded in a place where you can't live.

Dridengx wrote...

We don't ignore the plot holes. I saw the story for what it was, what it told me and everything it hinted at. I put it all together. I didn't need a cutscene or epilogue showing me, I knew. It would seem a small minority of you do have trouble with such a higher intellectual storyline and require assistance, asistance I do not have the patience for unfortunately. i will however wish you the best that someone else, perhaps even Bioware will explain to you in further detail in the upcoming weeks

Humour me, though. 
You say those plotholes are part of a higher intellectual story?
Or are you ascribing to the Indoctrination Theory. Since I do think the OP was talking about people who liked the ending on face value, rather than infering it as some grand "We-didn't-give-you-an-ending-it-was-indoctrination-buy-our-DLC" scam.

Modifié par Poison_Berrie, 21 mars 2012 - 10:39 .

[majormajormmajor]

Dav3VsTh3World wrote...

Can I just make a point about this? What gives people in the louder crowd the right to insult people that don't agree with them? And make claims that they're dumb or being bought out? Why can't these people accept that there are people out there freely have a different opinion than they do, hell its what the Premisis of Freedom of Speech is all about, you may not like what the opposing party says but that doesn't give you the right to slander them and tell them to shut up.

What gave your kind the right to insult people that didn't like the endings, which is all you people have been doing since the story broke?

You are getting repaid as you deserve.

[HenchxNarf]

majormajormmajor wrote...

Dav3VsTh3World wrote...

Can I just make a point about this? What gives people in the louder crowd the right to insult people that don't agree with them? And make claims that they're dumb or being bought out? Why can't these people accept that there are people out there freely have a different opinion than they do, hell its what the Premisis of Freedom of Speech is all about, you may not like what the opposing party says but that doesn't give you the right to slander them and tell them to shut up.

What gave your kind the right to insult people that didn't like the endings, which is all you people have been doing since the story broke?

You are getting repaid as you deserve.

Both side has their bad apples. But the ones on the movement side are much, much worse.

[majormajormmajor]

HenchxNarf wrote...

Both side has their bad apples. But the ones on the movement side are much, much worse.

Bollocks. It's nice that you're pushing the fiction but no one buys it

[Cody211282]

HenchxNarf wrote...

majormajormmajor wrote...

Dav3VsTh3World wrote...

Can I just make a point about this? What gives people in the louder crowd the right to insult people that don't agree with them? And make claims that they're dumb or being bought out? Why can't these people accept that there are people out there freely have a different opinion than they do, hell its what the Premisis of Freedom of Speech is all about, you may not like what the opposing party says but that doesn't give you the right to slander them and tell them to shut up.

What gave your kind the right to insult people that didn't like the endings, which is all you people have been doing since the story broke?

You are getting repaid as you deserve.

Both side has their bad apples. But the ones on the movement side are much, much worse.

I would say both sides have some really bad ones, I would say the pro ending side is a bit worse but thats just because of what side im on.