350 réponses à ce sujet

[SouperTrooper]

I can see what people like about them as conceptually the endings are not a bad idea. The execution was just poor. Using the same video for 3 stark choices? It was delusional, thinking that would ever work. If they bothered to take the time to flesh out each scenario it may have worked a lot better. I would also have liked to see the the outcome of the destruction of relays and Shepard's life vary across each scenario. Example destruction destroys relays but lets Shepard live, while control saves the relays but kills Shepard. Or if it's a renegade shepard he can live with control, potentially as a dictator if he wanted to.
There is a kernel there, they just never bothered to micro it so it didn't pop imo.

[Chernaya]

I would like a thread where people from both sides can talk civilly to each other and explain rather than insult their respective reasons. But that one would probably turn into a flame fest as well. D:

[The Angry One]

111987 wrote...

1. The Star Child never said genetics was the cause of ALL conflict. The Star Child said the fundamental differences between synthetics and organics will inevitably lead to conflict between them.

This is a flawed, racist ideology.

2. Synthesis will not end all future wars. Organics have warred against one another; synthetics have warred against one another. Synthesis however, will (alledgedly) end the possibility of the total annihilation of organics at the hands of synthetics (or even vice versa).

How?

3. The ending was not racist. In fact, it affected every 'race' equally.

See answer to point 1. Synthesis' message is diversity is bad, homogenisation is good. It is despicable.

[Edje Edgar]

111987 wrote...

Edje Edgar wrote...

111987 wrote...

Maybe those people are willing to look past the plot holes to see the message behind them, to explore and think critically about the issues and themes raised, etc...

What message is that? Social-Darwinism? Cause that's what I got from it.

There are many messages you can draw from the endings. One of the messages if that despite how dark things might get, there is always hope, and a chance to start anew (destruction of the mass relays, jungle planet the Normandy crashed on).

Actually, there's no hope at all. Shephard even says this himself: "You're taking our future and without future there is no hope". Then he just goes ahead and agrees with starchild's racist premise anyway and dooms the galaxy. The message of the game is that defeat is inevitable.

[FemmeShep]

111987 wrote...

Edje Edgar wrote...

111987 wrote...

Maybe those people are willing to look past the plot holes to see the message behind them, to explore and think critically about the issues and themes raised, etc...

What message is that? Social-Darwinism? Cause that's what I got from it.

There are many messages you can draw from the endings. One of the messages if that despite how dark things might get, there is always hope, and a chance to start anew (destruction of the mass relays, jungle planet the Normandy crashed on).

Sorry, but wat.

How do you get that logic? If anything, it's the opposite of hope. Essentially, you have two options that could back up your claim, and both are wrong.

I. Synthesize 

Instead of celebrating the differences of races and technology, this is abandoned for a homogonized solution. Pretty sure one of the biggest themes in Mass Effect was to celebrate these differences and fight homogonization. In fact, Javik even mentions the downfall of the Protheans was the homogonization of their society. 

And one of the reasons Shepards story is so unique, is that he gets different races to join together and unite. To use all their unique differences to combine and become a complete strength. All of this is thrown out the window with Synthesize.

II. Destruction

Destroy all synthetics, because the master and created can never get along. How the hell does doing this, inspire hope and staring new for you? It basically says, robots and organics wouldn't live side by side (even though we know this isn't true).

So I'm really baffled as to how you draw your "meanings" from the endings. 

Modifié par FemmeShep, 21 mars 2012 - 08:20 .

[111987]

The Angry One wrote...

111987 wrote...

Edje Edgar wrote...

111987 wrote...

Maybe those people are willing to look past the plot holes to see the message behind them, to explore and think critically about the issues and themes raised, etc...

What message is that? Social-Darwinism? Cause that's what I got from it.

There are many messages you can draw from the endings. One of the messages if that despite how dark things might get, there is always hope, and a chance to start anew (destruction of the mass relays, jungle planet the Normandy crashed on).

Yes let's forget all context, all reason, all logic and focus on some condescending message!
And you people say *we* want rainbows and butterflies.

Sorry, this is Mass Effect, not some college arthouse project. We invested in this for closure and an ending that makes sense, not this.
Also, the Normandy scene represents no hope. It represents magic, and a coward who abandoned the one person they owed everything to and wrecked the ship due to his stupidity.

So now my interpretation of symbolism is wrong? Okay...clearly no point in continuing this conversation.

Not all life in the galaxy is doomed, as you are suggesting. But since you're just going to tell me I'm wrong...whatever.

[FemmeShep]

111987 wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

111987 wrote...

Edje Edgar wrote...

111987 wrote...

Maybe those people are willing to look past the plot holes to see the message behind them, to explore and think critically about the issues and themes raised, etc...

What message is that? Social-Darwinism? Cause that's what I got from it.

There are many messages you can draw from the endings. One of the messages if that despite how dark things might get, there is always hope, and a chance to start anew (destruction of the mass relays, jungle planet the Normandy crashed on).

Yes let's forget all context, all reason, all logic and focus on some condescending message!
And you people say *we* want rainbows and butterflies.

Sorry, this is Mass Effect, not some college arthouse project. We invested in this for closure and an ending that makes sense, not this.
Also, the Normandy scene represents no hope. It represents magic, and a coward who abandoned the one person they owed everything to and wrecked the ship due to his stupidity.

So now my interpretation of symbolism is wrong? Okay...clearly no point in continuing this conversation.

Not all life in the galaxy is doomed, as you are suggesting. But since you're just going to tell me I'm wrong...whatever.

...well I guess one could find Jesus in a bag of Cheetos. Anything is possible. 

Modifié par FemmeShep, 21 mars 2012 - 08:21 .

[shepard1038]

Everyone is entittled to there opinions. Thinking that you're opinion is the only right one is wrong and stupid.

Modifié par shepard1038, 21 mars 2012 - 08:22 .

[Geneaux486]

I'd say focus more on that "I loved the ending" thread. Those of us who liked the ending need to focus our efforts.

[111987]

The Angry One wrote...

111987 wrote...

1. The Star Child never said genetics was the cause of ALL conflict. The Star Child said the fundamental differences between synthetics and organics will inevitably lead to conflict between them.

This is a flawed, racist ideology.

2. Synthesis will not end all future wars. Organics have warred against one another; synthetics have warred against one another. Synthesis however, will (alledgedly) end the possibility of the total annihilation of organics at the hands of synthetics (or even vice versa).

How?

3. The ending was not racist. In fact, it affected every 'race' equally.

See answer to point 1. Synthesis' message is diversity is bad, homogenisation is good. It is despicable.

This is the Star Child's logic. You do not have to accept it. I never even said I accepted it.

Also, as Legion said; it is racist to say synthetics and organics are the same.

[HenchxNarf]

FemmeShep wrote...

111987 wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

111987 wrote...

Edje Edgar wrote...

111987 wrote...

Maybe those people are willing to look past the plot holes to see the message behind them, to explore and think critically about the issues and themes raised, etc...

What message is that? Social-Darwinism? Cause that's what I got from it.

There are many messages you can draw from the endings. One of the messages if that despite how dark things might get, there is always hope, and a chance to start anew (destruction of the mass relays, jungle planet the Normandy crashed on).

Yes let's forget all context, all reason, all logic and focus on some condescending message!
And you people say *we* want rainbows and butterflies.

Sorry, this is Mass Effect, not some college arthouse project. We invested in this for closure and an ending that makes sense, not this.
Also, the Normandy scene represents no hope. It represents magic, and a coward who abandoned the one person they owed everything to and wrecked the ship due to his stupidity.

So now my interpretation of symbolism is wrong? Okay...clearly no point in continuing this conversation.

Not all life in the galaxy is doomed, as you are suggesting. But since you're just going to tell me I'm wrong...whatever.

...well I guess one could find Jesus in a bag of Cheetos. Anything is possible. 

And one could assume at your intelligence by your comments, as well. Anything is possible.

[FemmeShep]

shepard1038 wrote...

Everyone is entittled to there opinions. Thinking that you're opinion is the only right one is wrong
and stupid.

Of course everyone is entitled to their opinions.

Doesn't mean some of them like something for one reason, while ignoring other reasons. Just saying. 

[FemmeShep]

HenchxNarf wrote...

FemmeShep wrote...

111987 wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

111987 wrote...

Edje Edgar wrote...

111987 wrote...

Maybe those people are willing to look past the plot holes to see the message behind them, to explore and think critically about the issues and themes raised, etc...

What message is that? Social-Darwinism? Cause that's what I got from it.

There are many messages you can draw from the endings. One of the messages if that despite how dark things might get, there is always hope, and a chance to start anew (destruction of the mass relays, jungle planet the Normandy crashed on).

Yes let's forget all context, all reason, all logic and focus on some condescending message!
And you people say *we* want rainbows and butterflies.

Sorry, this is Mass Effect, not some college arthouse project. We invested in this for closure and an ending that makes sense, not this.
Also, the Normandy scene represents no hope. It represents magic, and a coward who abandoned the one person they owed everything to and wrecked the ship due to his stupidity.

So now my interpretation of symbolism is wrong? Okay...clearly no point in continuing this conversation.

Not all life in the galaxy is doomed, as you are suggesting. But since you're just going to tell me I'm wrong...whatever.

...well I guess one could find Jesus in a bag of Cheetos. Anything is possible. 

And one could assume at your intelligence by your comments, as well. Anything is possible.

So you don't think it's possible for people to find symbolism and meaning in things that aren't really there? The mind is a powerful thing. 

Modifié par FemmeShep, 21 mars 2012 - 08:24 .

[The Angry One]

111987 wrote...

So now my interpretation of symbolism is wrong? Okay...clearly no point in continuing this conversation.

There is no symbolism. That's part of the problem here, pretending that there is.
Feel free to back out, just do me a favour and stop seeing things that aren't there, you are not helping BioWare like this.

Not all life in the galaxy is doomed, as you are suggesting. But since you're just going to tell me I'm wrong...whatever.

Didn't mention that here, but if you extrapolate from the evidence we are shown, then yes it is.
In all 3 games the mass relays are presented as essential, in ME3 all advanced systems have been devastated and require serious aid, which they now don't have.
Mac Walters' own notes refer to a "galactic dark age", the intent is clear enough.

[The Angry One]

111987 wrote...

This is the Star Child's logic. You do not have to accept it. I never even said I accepted it.

Yeah but you see, Shepard has to accept it. That's the whole problem here.

Also, as Legion said; it is racist to say synthetics and organics are the same.

And he's correct, differences should be accepted and celebrated.
That organics and synthetics are different doesn't mean they can't co-exist.

[Cyph3rX]

Still don't get how ending up on a jungle planet with so little genetic material to sustain a viable population, along with Tali and Garrus starving to death, and Joker running from the battle for no reason, ALONG with the fact that in order to stop organics from being killed by synthetics you need to create synthetics from organics to kill and harvest the organics to create more synthetics to perpetuate the cycle. Plus, don't forget all the poor bastards either stranded or dead in the Sol system (depending on what relay theory you believe) starving to death from lack of resources or being unable to ingest the local fauna.

This ending was pure laziness that they're now trying to shoehorn into the art category to save face.

[111987]

FemmeShep wrote...

Sorry, but wat.

How do you get that logic? If anything, it's the opposite of hope. Essentially, you have two options that could back up your claim, and both are wrong.

I. Synthesize 

Instead of celebrating the differences of races and technology, this is abandoned for a homogonized solution. Pretty sure one of the biggest themes in Mass Effect was to celebrate these differences and fight homogonization. In fact, Javik even mentions the downfall of the Protheans was the homogonization of their society. 

And one of the reasons Shepards story is so unique, is that he gets different races to join together and unite. To use all their unique differences to combine and become a complete strength. All of this is thrown out the window with Synthesize.

Synthesis does not make 'one race'. It basically alters existing DNA to include synthetic components to it. A Turian is still different from a human, whom is still different from a Krogan, etc...

FemmeShep wrote...
II. Destruction

Destroy all synthetics, because the master and created can never get along. How the hell does doing this, inspire hope and staring new for you? It basically says, robots and organics wouldn't live side by side (even though we know this isn't true).

Who said I chose Destruction?

Regardless, the hope is that the cycle is now broken, and organics can start anew. Even synthetics can be rebuilt. Except this time, there aren't Reapers out there, waiting to reset the clock on organic evolution. Organics finally have hope now that the cycle has ended.

FemmeShep wrote...
So I'm really baffled as to how you draw your "meanings" from the endings. 

I'm not surprised.

[HenchxNarf]

111987 wrote...

FemmeShep wrote...

Sorry, but wat.

How do you get that logic? If anything, it's the opposite of hope. Essentially, you have two options that could back up your claim, and both are wrong.

I. Synthesize 

Instead of celebrating the differences of races and technology, this is abandoned for a homogonized solution. Pretty sure one of the biggest themes in Mass Effect was to celebrate these differences and fight homogonization. In fact, Javik even mentions the downfall of the Protheans was the homogonization of their society. 

And one of the reasons Shepards story is so unique, is that he gets different races to join together and unite. To use all their unique differences to combine and become a complete strength. All of this is thrown out the window with Synthesize.

Synthesis does not make 'one race'. It basically alters existing DNA to include synthetic components to it. A Turian is still different from a human, whom is still different from a Krogan, etc...

FemmeShep wrote...
II. Destruction

Destroy all synthetics, because the master and created can never get along. How the hell does doing this, inspire hope and staring new for you? It basically says, robots and organics wouldn't live side by side (even though we know this isn't true).

Who said I chose Destruction?

Regardless, the hope is that the cycle is now broken, and organics can start anew. Even synthetics can be rebuilt. Except this time, there aren't Reapers out there, waiting to reset the clock on organic evolution. Organics finally have hope now that the cycle has ended.

FemmeShep wrote...
So I'm really baffled as to how you draw your "meanings" from the endings. 

I'm not surprised.

Quit feeding them. They're not worth your time.

[Edje Edgar]

111987 wrote...

Edje Edgar wrote...

HenchxNarf wrote...

Here's my take on my ending.

http://social.biowar...5/index/9810976

Ye great, so you accept starchild's premise that the nature of all conflict is the cause of genetical make up? In other words: painting every human gray will stop all future wars?

You picked the racist ending, it has a green explosion. Now buy DLC.

I don't think you really understood the ending.

1. The Star Child never said genetics was the cause of ALL conflict. The Star Child said the fundamental differences between synthetics and organics will inevitably lead to conflict between them.

2. Synthesis will not end all future wars. Organics have warred against one another; synthetics have warred against one another. Synthesis however, will (alledgedly) end the possibility of the total annihilation of organics at the hands of synthetics (or even vice versa).

3. The ending was not racist. In fact, it affected every 'race' equally.

1. Fundamental differences like WHAT? The colour of their skin, their eyes? Or their ideas, and if so are they fundamentally different because they're made out of a different 'substance'. It is in fact very racist to assume differences of ideology are fundamental to any sentient being based on what they're made off.

2. Why would it end the possibility of annihilation? WHAT changes in the affected sentient species?

3. Racism is the concept that certain 'characteristics' are inherent to your race. So true racism by it's very definition affects all races, because the superior race ussualy ascribes postive characteristics to himself. It's a way of viewing the world. When this includes ideas or personality traits it becomes dangerous. I wasn't just talking about a 'for synthetics forbidden' sign at the local bakery.

[FemmeShep]

Look, this thread was about why people like the ending. I'm just giving my opinion why people like the ending.

I agree, I might not agree with others on how they feel about the ending. And I wouldn't tell them they are wrong, unless they were wanting to debate with me. At that point, I would give my take on it, and they would give their take on it.

In most cases I wouldn't even say anything at all. It's their opinion, they can believe what they want. This is a similar rule I have with religion or politics. I just stay clear of it, unless they want to talk about it. This thread is about that.

If this was a "I like the ending thread" then I agree, people that don't like it should just stay out if the person just wants to talk about why they liked it. They aren't up for debating their opinion. They just want to express and talk about it.

[The Angry One]

I'm amused that we're accused of being rude, while HenchxNarf sits there continually being insulting and dismissive. Says it all really.

[FemmeShep]

111987 wrote...

FemmeShep wrote...

Sorry, but wat.

How do you get that logic? If anything, it's the opposite of hope. Essentially, you have two options that could back up your claim, and both are wrong.

I. Synthesize 

Instead of celebrating the differences of races and technology, this is abandoned for a homogonized solution. Pretty sure one of the biggest themes in Mass Effect was to celebrate these differences and fight homogonization. In fact, Javik even mentions the downfall of the Protheans was the homogonization of their society. 

And one of the reasons Shepards story is so unique, is that he gets different races to join together and unite. To use all their unique differences to combine and become a complete strength. All of this is thrown out the window with Synthesize.

Synthesis does not make 'one race'. It basically alters existing DNA to include synthetic components to it. A Turian is still different from a human, whom is still different from a Krogan, etc...

FemmeShep wrote...
II. Destruction

Destroy all synthetics, because the master and created can never get along. How the hell does doing this, inspire hope and staring new for you? It basically says, robots and organics wouldn't live side by side (even though we know this isn't true).

Who said I chose Destruction?

Regardless, the hope is that the cycle is now broken, and organics can start anew. Even synthetics can be rebuilt. Except this time, there aren't Reapers out there, waiting to reset the clock on organic evolution. Organics finally have hope now that the cycle has ended.

FemmeShep wrote...
So I'm really baffled as to how you draw your "meanings" from the endings. 

I'm not surprised.

It's still a homogonization of DNA that tries to solve a problem that was already solved. It didn't need to happen. There was already proof that robots and organics could co-exist. Giving in to this, for no reason is a stupid sacrifice, period. There was no need for it. 

[Geneaux486]

Entire fleets of ships with FLT drives, likely large amounts of food, unified species. They can survive the destruction of the Mass Relays, and they're not that much worse off than they would be otherwise. Most of their worlds are already burning. How did you think a war with the Reapers that most of the galaxy prepared for at the last possible second would end? Sad ending =! bad ending.

Modifié par Geneaux486, 21 mars 2012 - 08:30 .

[HenchxNarf]

The Angry One wrote...

I'm amused that we're accused of being rude, while HenchxNarf sits there continually being insulting and dismissive. Says it all really.

One person who has been acting immature, I called them out on it. While the rest of the movement puts down everyone who likes the ending. And I'm the one who is being insulting. Right.

Hello pot.

Modifié par HenchxNarf, 21 mars 2012 - 08:31 .

[Edje Edgar]

HenchxNarf wrote...

Quit feeding them. They're not worth your time.

So you feel free to lecture us about the 'truth' of the ending, but when you're treated on arguments that argue the other side of things we suddenly 'aren't worth your time'?

Way to convince me of your enlightened view.