350 réponses à ce sujet

[The Angry One]

HenchxNarf wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

I'm amused that we're accused of being rude, while HenchxNarf sits there continually being insulting and dismissive. Says it all really.

One person who has been acting immature, while the rest of the movement puts down everyone who likes the ending.

Hello pot.

We have been discussing reasoning, not putting down. It's not our fault if you take random musings personally.

[HenchxNarf]

Edje Edgar wrote...

HenchxNarf wrote...

Quit feeding them. They're not worth your time.

So you feel free to lecture us about the 'truth' of the ending, but when you're treated on arguments that argue the other side of things we suddenly 'aren't worth your time'?

Way to convince me of your enlightened view.

I simply said that he was being baited by that person. Not everyone.

[111987]

The Angry One wrote...

111987 wrote...

So now my interpretation of symbolism is wrong? Okay...clearly no point in continuing this conversation.

There is no symbolism. That's part of the problem here, pretending that there is.
Feel free to back out, just do me a favour and stop seeing things that aren't there, you are not helping BioWare like this.

The devs have said themselves that the jungle planet symbolizes new beginnings. Just because you say there isn't symbolism doesn't make it right, just like you don't have to see the symbolism if you don't want to. Neither of us is wrong (although I am sure you will still tell me that I am indeed, wrong).

The Angry One wrote...

Didn't mention that here, but if you extrapolate from the evidence we are shown, then yes it is.
In all 3 games the mass relays are presented as essential, in ME3 all advanced systems have been devastated and require serious aid, which they now don't have.
Mac Walters' own notes refer to a "galactic dark age", the intent is clear enough.

The Mass Relays were essential to galactic relations. They were also essential to the Reaper's cycle. The destruction of the relays can be seen as a symbol of the destruction, or ending of the cycle. Yeah, it will cost organics greatly, but in the long run, they have a future to look towards.

In any case I know you will disagree with me until the end of time, so I think I'm done here.

Modifié par 111987, 21 mars 2012 - 08:32 .

[Edje Edgar]

Geneaux486 wrote...

Entire fleets of ships with FLT drives, likely large amounts of food, unified species. They can survive the destruction of the Mass Relays, and they're not that much worse off than they would be otherwise. Most of their worlds are already burning. How did you think a war with the Reapers that most of the galaxy prepared for at the last possible second would end? Sad ending =! bad ending.

This is exactly what's been discussed.

Here have a cookie.

[Edje Edgar]

HenchxNarf wrote...

Edje Edgar wrote...

HenchxNarf wrote...

Quit feeding them. They're not worth your time.

So you feel free to lecture us about the 'truth' of the ending, but when you're treated on arguments that argue the other side of things we suddenly 'aren't worth your time'?

Way to convince me of your enlightened view.

I simply said that he was being baited by that person. Not everyone.

THEY<- suggests plural. "That person"<- does not.

[Geneaux486]

Edje Edgar wrote...

Geneaux486 wrote...

Entire fleets of ships with FLT drives, likely large amounts of food, unified species. They can survive the destruction of the Mass Relays, and they're not that much worse off than they would be otherwise. Most of their worlds are already burning. How did you think a war with the Reapers that most of the galaxy prepared for at the last possible second would end? Sad ending =! bad ending.

This is exactly what's been discussed.

Here have a cookie.

If you know already then why do you continue to argue against it?

[The Angry One]

Geneaux486 wrote...

Entire fleets of ships with FLT drives, likely large amounts of food, unified species. They can survive the destruction of the Mass Relays, and they're not that much worse off than they would be otherwise. Most of their worlds are already burning.

Please see any number of topics on this. Their FTL drives will not help, they require fuel, constant static discharges and maintenance. Their rations will run out, and then they'll be left with what? Nothing. Especially the Turians, who will have to raid Quarian lifeships to survive.

How did you think a war with the Reapers that most of the galaxy prepared for at the last possible second would end? Sad ending =! bad ending.

A unified fleet with max war readiness could and should have a chance. Reapers are not invincible.

[Cyph3rX]

Geneaux486 wrote...

Entire fleets of ships with FLT drives, like large amounts of food, unified species. They can survive the destruction of the Mass Relays, and they're not that much worse off than they would be otherwise. Most of their worlds are already burning. How did you think a war with the Reapers that most of the galaxy prepared for at the last possible second would end? Sad ending =! bad ending.

It wasn't sad, it just made no effing sense from the established lore. Not to mention how are you going to fuel any of those FTL drive ships now? Since the Reapers basically just went and blew up every fuel depot that they could find, I doubt any of those fleets, epecially since the majority of them were in the Sol system are going much of anywhere atm, except maybe the next star over.

[FemmeShep]

HenchxNarf wrote...

Edje Edgar wrote...

HenchxNarf wrote...

Quit feeding them. They're not worth your time.

So you feel free to lecture us about the 'truth' of the ending, but when you're treated on arguments that argue the other side of things we suddenly 'aren't worth your time'?

Way to convince me of your enlightened view.

I simply said that he was being baited by that person. Not everyone.

I didn't mean to bait. 

I just don't agree with where he is finding his symbolism. But I'll tone it back, sorry. But I stil stand by my argument. Shepard sacrifices himself for a stupid cause. 

And there is no "hope" or beginning "a new" out of that ending. Unless you find cheap writing ploy like Adam & Eve to = starting new. 

[Geneaux486]

Please see any number of topics on this. Their FTL drives will not help, they require fuel, constant static discharges and maintenance. Their rations will run out, and then they'll be left with what? Nothing. Especially the Turians, who will have to raid Quarian lifeships to survive.

FTL will help, fuel will not be in short supply, rations will not run out as long as someone, anyone, knows anything about agriculture.

[HenchxNarf]

Edje Edgar wrote...

HenchxNarf wrote...

Edje Edgar wrote...

HenchxNarf wrote...

Quit feeding them. They're not worth your time.

So you feel free to lecture us about the 'truth' of the ending, but when you're treated on arguments that argue the other side of things we suddenly 'aren't worth your time'?

Way to convince me of your enlightened view.

I simply said that he was being baited by that person. Not everyone.

THEY<- suggests plural. "That person"<- does not.

THEY suggests that I dont know if they're male or female.

[FemmeShep]

Geneaux486 wrote...

Please see any number of topics on this. Their FTL drives will not help, they require fuel, constant static discharges and maintenance. Their rations will run out, and then they'll be left with what? Nothing. Especially the Turians, who will have to raid Quarian lifeships to survive.

FTL will help, fuel will not be in short supply, rations will not run out as long as someone, anyone, knows anything about agriculture.

Not practical. 

[The Angry One]

111987 wrote...

The devs have said themselves that the jungle planet symbolizes new beginnings. Just because you say there isn't symbolism doesn't make it right, just like you don't have to see the symbolism if you don't want to. Neither of us is wrong (although I am sure you will still tell me that I am indeed, wrong).

If they have to tell you, it's not symbolism.

The Mass Relays were essential to galactic relations. They were also essential to the Reaper's cycle. The destruction of the relays can be seen as a symbol of the destruction, or ending of the cycle. Yeah, it will cost organics greatly, but in the long run, they have a future to look towards.

In any case I know you will disagree with me until the end of time, so I think I'm done here.

Heh. The cycle ends when the Reapers end, not the mass relays.
The mass relays are needed for SURVIVAL. The burning worlds of the galaxy now need aid and supplies to recover which, oops, they don't have. They have no future, they will wither and die in the dark because Shepard surrendered.

[Geneaux486]

FemmeShep wrote...

Geneaux486 wrote...

Please see any number of topics on this. Their FTL drives will not help, they require fuel, constant static discharges and maintenance. Their rations will run out, and then they'll be left with what? Nothing. Especially the Turians, who will have to raid Quarian lifeships to survive.

FTL will help, fuel will not be in short supply, rations will not run out as long as someone, anyone, knows anything about agriculture.

Not practical. 

Of course it's practical.  It's not like only a few ships are stranded in the Sol system, it's entire fleets from multiple races.  To suggest that they can't get their **** together is ludicrous.

[111987]

The Angry One wrote...

111987 wrote...

This is the Star Child's logic. You do not have to accept it. I never even said I accepted it.

Yeah but you see, Shepard has to accept it. That's the whole problem here.

You only accept it if you choose Synthesis. The Catalyst doesn't even like Control or Destroy, because they go against his logic.

[The Angry One]

Geneaux486 wrote...

Please see any number of topics on this. Their FTL drives will not help, they require fuel, constant static discharges and maintenance. Their rations will run out, and then they'll be left with what? Nothing. Especially the Turians, who will have to raid Quarian lifeships to survive.

FTL will help, fuel will not be in short supply, rations will not run out as long as someone, anyone, knows anything about agriculture.

FTL is 12 light years a day, that will get you around the local cluster and the local cluster only.
Fuel not in short supply? Excuse me? They have thousands of ships to fuel and no infrastructure to refuel. ZERO. NONE. The Reapers destroyed it all.
Knowing about agriculture and having somewhere viable to grow crops are two different things, a few agriculture ships aren't going to feed the millions of crewmembers, refugees and soldiers left. Remember, liveships can only feed Quarians and Turians and probably don't have enough for both.

[Cyph3rX]

Geneaux486 wrote...

Please see any number of topics on this. Their FTL drives will not help, they require fuel, constant static discharges and maintenance. Their rations will run out, and then they'll be left with what? Nothing. Especially the Turians, who will have to raid Quarian lifeships to survive.

FTL will help, fuel will not be in short supply, rations will not run out as long as someone, anyone, knows anything about agriculture.

Except Quarians and Turians have different DNA than Humans, Asari, Krogan, etc. One can't eat the other's food. Turians are basically reduced to begging scraps from Quarians, or killing them for their food. FTL can't get you more than a star system or two over before you have to refuel/discharge the core. Has anyone defending these nonsensical endings even played Mass Effect 1? Heck, even 2 I think mentioned this crap in passing.

[Geneaux486]

The Angry One wrote...

Geneaux486 wrote...

Please see any number of topics on this. Their FTL drives will not help, they require fuel, constant static discharges and maintenance. Their rations will run out, and then they'll be left with what? Nothing. Especially the Turians, who will have to raid Quarian lifeships to survive.

FTL will help, fuel will not be in short supply, rations will not run out as long as someone, anyone, knows anything about agriculture.

FTL is 12 light years a day, that will get you around the local cluster and the local cluster only.
Fuel not in short supply? Excuse me? They have thousands of ships to fuel and no infrastructure to refuel. ZERO. NONE. The Reapers destroyed it all.
Knowing about agriculture and having somewhere viable to grow crops are two different things, a few agriculture ships aren't going to feed the millions of crewmembers, refugees and soldiers left. Remember, liveships can only feed Quarians and Turians and probably don't have enough for both.

And why do you assume the rest of the races didn't plan for something like this?  They went to the Sol system knowing the risks, any decent military force would take precautions of this nature.  To find fault with the state of the galaxy at the end of this war you basically have to say the Reapers shouldn't exist.

[The Angry One]

111987 wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

111987 wrote...

This is the Star Child's logic. You do not have to accept it. I never even said I accepted it.

Yeah but you see, Shepard has to accept it. That's the whole problem here.

You only accept it if you choose Synthesis. The Catalyst doesn't even like Control or Destroy, because they go against his logic.

They are all his options, presented by him. They still operate on his logic.
Destroy - Same racist principles as synthesis, synthetics will never get along with organics, so kill them all.
Contro - Reapers are still relevant.

[Cody211282]

111987 wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

111987 wrote...

This is the Star Child's logic. You do not have to accept it. I never even said I accepted it.

Yeah but you see, Shepard has to accept it. That's the whole problem here.

You only accept it if you choose Synthesis. The Catalyst doesn't even like Control or Destroy, because they go against his logic.

Actauly he says these are the only things you can do, how about shep does nothing? Or has the fleet blowup the citidel? Or just rip the circitry out of the thing that controls the reapers? Or just have the damn kid call off the attack?

[Cyph3rX]

111987 wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

111987 wrote...

This is the Star Child's logic. You do not have to accept it. I never even said I accepted it.

Yeah but you see, Shepard has to accept it. That's the whole problem here.

You only accept it if you choose Synthesis. The Catalyst doesn't even like Control or Destroy, because they go against his logic.

The fact that Shepard has to accept anything without at least investigating the issue first goes against the other 99% of the trilogy.

[The Angry One]

Geneaux486 wrote...

And why do you assume the rest of the races didn't plan for something like this?  They went to the Sol system knowing the risks, any decent military force would take precautions of this nature.  To find fault with the state of the galaxy at the end of this war you basically have to say the Reapers shouldn't exist.

They fully expected to return home. Listen to Wrex. Listen to Tali.
They did not go in expecting some moron would obliterate the relay network and strand them.
They do NOT have the ability to sustain themselves in the long term, and neither does Earth without outside aid.

[FemmeShep]

111987 wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

111987 wrote...

This is the Star Child's logic. You do not have to accept it. I never even said I accepted it.

Yeah but you see, Shepard has to accept it. That's the whole problem here.

You only accept it if you choose Synthesis. The Catalyst doesn't even like Control or Destroy, because they go against his logic.

The illusion of freewill, it's a good one.

How about the option where Shepard just uses the weapon to destroy the reaper system, since he's proven the AI's logic is flat out wrong...

For that matter, are you actually defending the dumb logic that Star Child presents as the reason for the Reapers? Are you REALLY okay with how that entire ending sets itself up in context to the rest of the plot. I get you like the stuff that comes after that (symbolically or whatever)....

Modifié par FemmeShep, 21 mars 2012 - 08:41 .

[Tony208]

Geneaux486 wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Geneaux486 wrote...

Please see any number of topics on this. Their FTL drives will not help, they require fuel, constant static discharges and maintenance. Their rations will run out, and then they'll be left with what? Nothing. Especially the Turians, who will have to raid Quarian lifeships to survive.

FTL will help, fuel will not be in short supply, rations will not run out as long as someone, anyone, knows anything about agriculture.

FTL is 12 light years a day, that will get you around the local cluster and the local cluster only.
Fuel not in short supply? Excuse me? They have thousands of ships to fuel and no infrastructure to refuel. ZERO. NONE. The Reapers destroyed it all.
Knowing about agriculture and having somewhere viable to grow crops are two different things, a few agriculture ships aren't going to feed the millions of crewmembers, refugees and soldiers left. Remember, liveships can only feed Quarians and Turians and probably don't have enough for both.

And why do you assume the rest of the races didn't plan for something like this?  They went to the Sol system knowing the risks, any decent military force would take precautions of this nature.  To find fault with the state of the galaxy at the end of this war you basically have to say the Reapers shouldn't exist.

So everyone planned for the mass relays to be destroyed and they brought tons of supplies and fuel? Talk sense please.

Modifié par Tony208, 21 mars 2012 - 08:41 .

[Cody211282]

Geneaux486 wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Geneaux486 wrote...

Please see any number of topics on this. Their FTL drives will not help, they require fuel, constant static discharges and maintenance. Their rations will run out, and then they'll be left with what? Nothing. Especially the Turians, who will have to raid Quarian lifeships to survive.

FTL will help, fuel will not be in short supply, rations will not run out as long as someone, anyone, knows anything about agriculture.

FTL is 12 light years a day, that will get you around the local cluster and the local cluster only.
Fuel not in short supply? Excuse me? They have thousands of ships to fuel and no infrastructure to refuel. ZERO. NONE. The Reapers destroyed it all.
Knowing about agriculture and having somewhere viable to grow crops are two different things, a few agriculture ships aren't going to feed the millions of crewmembers, refugees and soldiers left. Remember, liveships can only feed Quarians and Turians and probably don't have enough for both.

And why do you assume the rest of the races didn't plan for something like this?  They went to the Sol system knowing the risks, any decent military force would take precautions of this nature.  To find fault with the state of the galaxy at the end of this war you basically have to say the Reapers shouldn't exist.

Yet again stuff like this should have been adressed, as the ending stands now it feels like the DM got pissed off and just said "ROCKS FALL EVERYONE DIES!"